Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 25 minutes ago, torino2dc said: I do. If one part of the game is frustrating there are always other parts that are still lots of fun. When T10 feels stale there's always T8 or T9, when that gets uptiered too much you can hop to T6 or T7, if randoms is too much of a clownshow then there is ranked or brawls or concealed caravan of maneuvering convoys. If a certain class doesn't feel like it is working, there are 5 to choose from with a great range of playstyles within each. There are over 600 ships in the game, and most of them take dozens and dozens of games to master. Seek out the fun and ye shall find it. The problems filling out a queue on NA, even sometimes during prime time...do not bode well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torino2dc Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: The problems filling out a queue on NA, even sometimes during prime time...do not bode well. That is a logical result of offering so many different modes/tiers/classes to enjoy the game -- it sometimes spreads the player base too thinly for the matchmaker. I don't read that as a sign of decline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolGaming_Youtube Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, torino2dc said: I do. If one part of the game is frustrating there are always other parts that are still lots of fun. When T10 feels stale there's always T8 or T9, when that gets uptiered too much you can hop to T6 or T7, if randoms is too much of a clownshow then there is ranked or brawls or concealed caravan of maneuvering convoys. If a certain class doesn't feel like it is working, there are 5 to choose from with a great range of playstyles within each. There are over 600 ships in the game, and most of them take dozens and dozens of games to master. Seek out the fun and ye shall find it. Gotta love the enthusiasm! If we had this conversation 5 years ago I would totally agree with you. (has WeeGee entered the forum...?) Edited October 20, 2023 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnirf Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 On 10/19/2023 at 10:30 AM, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said: I missed the U-4501 with my Coal coupon the other day and just wanted to look what it costs in the Premium shop and my jaw kinda dropped. This is in Swedish SEK, but in my currency 1374 kr which WG takes for the small "bundle" to the right is the same amount of money you can buy 3 ..... I say again 3 triple A titels!?! And that is for ONE premium sub in an online game with a Very questionable future. Is this normal?! Is ANYONE buying these overpriced things?? Im not trying to throw som shade here, back in 2015-2018 when I still threw money at WG and whaled for a bit, I bought a ton of great premiums like Asashio, Kidd, Atago etc etc but that was T8´s, since back then you couldn't buy yourself into T10 like today. So the price for those items was like 30 euros each which was a bit expensive but since you played the game so much back then it was a decent investment (which I today have gotten a crap ton of free steel, coal, free XP and RB ships for), so they have kind of payed for themselves. But the money equivalent to 3 triple A titels for one T10 premium sub, do anyone think it is worth it?! Specially since I will get in for free in december with my new coupon and coal?! And the bigger "bundle" we shouldn't even talk about, that is 4 triple-A gaming titels!! Even IF you play this game today as a full time job I have trouble to see how this would be a good investment but more like getting rammed from behind. I have a hard time seeing even whales throw this kind of money at some questionable pixels that can be changed nerfed at any time. Thoughts? What do you mean by miss? It is still there for coal, in the armory under ships? That you use your coupon on another ship does not mean it is not obtainable for coal just to clarify. I bought it yesterday as I had to look if the ship was removed so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___V_E_N_O_M___ Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 Just be patient, accumulate commodities and get them for free. Don't waste money on this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___V_E_N_O_M___ Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) What is interesting however, is to see citizens of capitalist societies actually complaining about capitalist business models like that of WG and their overpriced pixel ships. I mean what did you expect, this is way the capatilism works. Screw as much as you can out of those that having nothing and create situations in which they will always be stuck in vicious cycles of borrowing and debt. Driven by the unbridled need to have more. Creating ever more useless products for you to consume that are so attractive, those without any common sense don't think twice in buying them. Edited October 21, 2023 by ___V_E_N_O_M___ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouSatInGum Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 19 hours ago, torino2dc said: That is a logical result of offering so many different modes/tiers/classes to enjoy the game -- it sometimes spreads the player base too thinly for the matchmaker. I don't read that as a sign of decline. When coupled with the fact that the Random mode is running at nearly half of what it used to in terms of games played... Yeah... it's a decline. Call it what it is. Now decline doesn't necessarily mean dying... but it does reduce WG's options. Running Random/Coop/Ranked/Arms race/Operations used to be no problem. But as numbers declined at first WG has to restrict mode times and now they are simply folding modes into Random (despite warnings from the player base). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said: When coupled with the fact that the Random mode is running at nearly half of what it used to in terms of games played... Yeah... it's a decline. Call it what it is. Now decline doesn't necessarily mean dying... but it does reduce WG's options. Running Random/Coop/Ranked/Arms race/Operations used to be no problem. But as numbers declined at first WG has to restrict mode times and now they are simply folding modes into Random (despite warnings from the player base). And, we are seeing COOP as dying in an attempt to "drive players" into Random or other PVP modes. Which, we will never do. Nor play any PVP mode more than 1 match to see what has changed.... Yes, mature game sometimes "stall" in population - this game has and will simply reside there because our host has decided to allow it to....... We've seen this coming for two years now so it's nothing new. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouSatInGum Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 On 10/20/2023 at 7:55 AM, Asym said: You don't need charts and paradigm shifts and all of the Six Sigma/Lean/TQM/Agile BS to be world class........all you need is very simple: produce first world content and the money will grow as will the population because word of mouth sells the game...... Not advertising. Not gimmicks. Just hard work and great products that meet the expectations of the Niche...... I tend to think the same way.... By the way... I hate buzzwords attached to common sense management like it something new and undiscovered. TQM and Agile are the worst of the lot you mentioned above. I could write a novel on everything wrong with that sort of corporate crap... at the end of the day the waste generated from the unnecessary crap meeting glad handing more than offsets any good processes that come from it. ....and Lean Inventory is its own poster child of book the profits of when it works, but ignoring the massive losses when the whole thing breaks from things like pandemics... this risk was KNOWN and ignored. The accounting guys who got bonuses from this crap should have every bonus penny clawed back or even put in jail when critical items like respirators could not be made because they broke the supply chain... OK....I'll step off my anti-MBA MBA soapbox now... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouSatInGum Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Asym said: And, we are seeing COOP as dying in an attempt to "drive players" into Random or other PVP modes. Which, we will never do. Nor play any PVP mode more than 1 match to see what has changed.... Yes, mature game sometimes "stall" in population - this game has and will simply reside there because our host has decided to allow it to....... We've seen this coming for two years now so it's nothing new. WG has been trying to funnel COOP players back to random since pre-CV rework times... That said, I think they have finally deaf and blindly stumbled into the realization that they can actually grow this player population with things like Asymmetric but of course the expectations have to be realistic... and I bet there are still plenty in WGHQ that still don't a shit about PvE.... i.e. operations has quickly gone back to it's natural runt order on WG's hind tit. Various stealth nerfs and unfixed bugs are proof of that... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunkCostFallacy Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said: WG has been trying to funnel COOP players back to random since pre-CV rework times... That said, I think they have finally deaf and blindly stumbled into the realization that they can actually grow this player population with things like Asymmetric but of course the expectations have to be realistic... and I bet there are still plenty in WGHQ that still don't a shit about PvE.... i.e. operations has quickly gone back to it's natural runt order on WG's hind tit. Various stealth nerfs and unfixed bugs are proof of that... In a thread in the PVE section of the old forum a CM said straight out that Randoms were the preferred game mode for a number of reasons, not the least being that it used the fewest resources per player. It's ironic that Randoms is the mode which, if the posts on the old forum are to be believed, has the greatest discontent per player One has to wonder if the brain trust at WG are ever going to reconcile themselves to the reality that many players just don't want to play PVP and won't do it. If they continue to deteriorate the COOP experience people will just leave, rather than move to Randoms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 51 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said: I tend to think the same way.... By the way... I hate buzzwords attached to common sense management like it something new and undiscovered. TQM and Agile are the worst of the lot you mentioned above. I could write a novel on everything wrong with that sort of corporate crap... at the end of the day the waste generated from the unnecessary crap meeting glad handing more than offsets any good processes that come from it. ....and Lean Inventory is its own poster child of book the profits of when it works, but ignoring the massive losses when the whole thing breaks from things like pandemics... this risk was KNOWN and ignored. The accounting guys who got bonuses from this crap should have every bonus penny clawed back or even put in jail when critical items like respirators could not be made because they broke the supply chain... OK....I'll step off my anti-MBA MBA soapbox now... Yes, I was at the forefront of the tidal wave of "acronym solutions".... When asked about them, while working in program management, I'd laugh and hold up my left hand and spread my fingers..... "see these 5 fingers", that is all you need to know because the world is built on the power of the number 5: five tastes, yes? Five elemental s, yes? Five senses, yes??? Five sections in an Army Op order, yes? How about METTT, yes? SMART, yes? DMAIC or DMADV, yes>? So, why do we need to spend millions redefining the same five things a well trained Leader will never use???" The answer is Design, Measure, Analyze, Improve and Control....... What else is there because the human brain is wired for the number five...... So, they didn't spend another penny after that.......and, created "Joint Enterprise Teams" that were in existence till that world class corporation closed three years ago (the niche for that product simply went away.....) BTW, my Masters is in Innovation Design and I am 7/8 through an MBA I simply hate.....and, will never finish.!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 52 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said: WG has been trying to funnel COOP players back to random since pre-CV rework times... That said, I think they have finally deaf and blindly stumbled into the realization that they can actually grow this player population with things like Asymmetric but of course the expectations have to be realistic... and I bet there are still plenty in WGHQ that still don't a shit about PvE.... i.e. operations has quickly gone back to it's natural runt order on WG's hind tit. Various stealth nerfs and unfixed bugs are proof of that... And, there they are: stuck with the realization that PVE can actually make money for them and they are gagging on it.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolGaming_Youtube Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 6 hours ago, Gnirf said: What do you mean by miss? It is still there for coal, in the armory under ships? That you use your coupon on another ship does not mean it is not obtainable for coal just to clarify. I bought it yesterday as I had to look if the ship was removed so quickly. Naah, I just missed the fact that i had gotten released in Armory. I was a bit too hung up on if Jeager would get into the Armory or not and my Backup purchase was Napoli. So after the info regarding the Jeager not coming I went ahead and bought Napoli, played 2 games (so I couldn't get a refund) and then realized that the sub was sitting there all along. So I will just have to wait for 5-6 december and get her with the new coupon and coal. 2 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said: Just be patient, accumulate commodities and get them for free. Don't waste money on this game Never will! It's literally throwing money into the sea. 2 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said: What is interesting however, is to see citizens of capitalist societies actually complaining about capitalist business models like that of WG and their overpriced pixel ships. I mean what did you expect, this is way the capatilism works. Screw as much as you can out of those that having nothing and create situations in which they will always be stuck in vicious cycles of borrowing and debt. Driven by the unbridled need to have more. Creating ever more useless products for you to consume that are so attractive, those without any common sense don't think twice in buying them. I have a good understanding on how capitalism works. But there is a huge difference between capitalism and offering one product either for free or for 130 dollars/Euros. Thats not really good capitalism in the works. Its just a bit stupid business wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___V_E_N_O_M___ Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 3 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said: Naah, I just missed the fact that i had gotten released in Armory. I was a bit too hung up on if Jeager would get into the Armory or not and my Backup purchase was Napoli. So after the info regarding the Jeager not coming I went ahead and bought Napoli, played 2 games (so I couldn't get a refund) and then realized that the sub was sitting there all along. So I will just have to wait for 5-6 december and get her with the new coupon and coal. Never will! It's literally throwing money into the sea. I have a good understanding on how capitalism works. But there is a huge difference between capitalism and offering one product either for free or for 130 dollars/Euros. Thats not really good capitalism in the works. Its just a bit stupid business wise. Well its pay2win, those that can't wait can pay and pay at exorbitant prices. Sounds like capitalism to me, there countless examples of where you pay more for effectively the same thing but delivered to you in a different way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaydin Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 The Napoli when it was released, IIRC, was like 120 USD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethervox Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Whatever WG decides is 'normal pricing' is 'normal' for them. You know, whatever WG thinks it can get away with (earn) in their pricing. I spent some money, like many, on WoWS in its early years. Ever since WG altered CVs with the CV rework (imo, completely wrecked them) & so many subsequent alterations (almost all, imo, regressions) I have (now) zero inclination* to spend money on WoWS. * I would buy a dedicated clan flag slot tho, that suggestion idea to WG sailed (& sank) long ago, it appears 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 11 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said: What is interesting however, is to see citizens of capitalist societies actually complaining about capitalist business models like that of WG and their overpriced pixel ships. I mean what did you expect, this is way the capatilism works. Screw as much as you can out of those that having nothing and create situations in which they will always be stuck in vicious cycles of borrowing and debt. Driven by the unbridled need to have more. Creating ever more useless products for you to consume that are so attractive, those without any common sense don't think twice in buying them. Most of the Western world abandoned pure capitalism in the 20th Century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 11 hours ago, YouSatInGum said: OK....I'll step off my anti-MBA MBA soapbox now... LOL As someone with an MBA earned in 2007...who in my last year was taking open bets as to when the housing market would collapse... I have long ago learned that everyone in business actually knows that the strategies they peddle have serious flaws...but as long as the deliver PERSONALLY, to hell with the rest of the organization or my neighbors...and this stupid unethical philosophy is preached as 'good' by the business strategists. Ugh. Worst part of the experience. The engineer part of me was and is appalled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yedwy Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Its normal for WG as a corpo to try to fleece you, its normal for you as a customer to not want to let them do that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___V_E_N_O_M___ Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 6 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: Most of the Western world abandoned pure capitalism in the 20th Century. If you say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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