Submarine U-4501 "the Underwater Benham"?

[Jakob Knight]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

 

Im not convinced of the lacking of shotgun effect on this sub as well. But it depends on situation. Face to face can be one thing but im thinking if a DD or a cruiser is chasing me and im trying to go away I could go to periscope outside my air detect and just wiggle my ass a bit to launch all the aft torps in its face.

 

The problem with this tactic is that the aft tubes are separated into 3 port/3 starboard, with no overlap and some space between them.  That means you will be firing two groups of 3 each, and have to turn to bring each to bear, costing you speed in a situation where you are being chased, probably close to Hydro detect range if they have it.

[Jakob Knight]

3 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Something like that... this clip cuts short though, so if you don't know the film... watch it in full.

 

 

 

 

An excellent example of why casual conversation is prohibited on the Bridge of a military vessel, especially during General Quarters.

 

"No one shall speak to the man at the Helm, and the man at the Helm will speak to no one."

 

 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

3 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

The problem with this tactic is that the aft tubes are separated into 3 port/3 starboard, with no overlap and some space between them.  That means you will be firing two groups of 3 each, and have to turn to bring each to bear, costing you speed in a situation where you are being chased, probably close to Hydro detect range if they have it.

 

That might be so.

It also depends on our definition of "shot gunning"? Do everyone mean Suicide/YOLO/Leroy Jenkins when they say Shot gunning? Because for me it also includes sitting 3-4 km away from a ship at periscope depth undetected and just blasting a shotgun salvo of torps into his hull without him knowing you are there. Or is everyone's definition sailing straight for him on the surface and then blast him at minimum arming distance?

Because in my way I can sail straight towards a BB sailing left to right, send all my bow torp using only prediction (no pings), turning around before my air detect of 2.1 km and then blast him with second and third aft launchers while I sail away. I can see that work pretty good. 

 

 

Also on another note, this guy do some levelheaded videos about subs. Hes a mediocre surface player but unicum or superunicum in subs (in his own words). And he says hydro DDs probably is the biggest threat. 

He also mentioned another thing. The sub moves like lightning when sailing straight underwater and the ping marker area that the enemy BB sees is apparently mega huge for this sub (one of its gimmicks) so given that I usually can outrun air ASWs that actually launched right on my position in the other T10 subs (ASWs falling red but at last second before blast they turn orange and doesn't even do splash damage), im thinking it will be like winning the lottery to actually hit an air launched ASW on this sub.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[HMS_Kilinowski]

5 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

They way WG hooked the DCP to the torp homing is probably the single stupidest feature of the sub implementation in WoWS, though.

It's hard to say anything about it, cause it works both ways. If you are a surface ship under fire and have to decide when to use DCP on top of knowing a sub is pinging, that is a lot of workload and often feels unfair.

But on the other side, the DCP often is a guaranteed miss, cause the torps home in on a certain point, then are DCPed and there is no more spread like with DDs that will increase the chance of at least landing one hit. If I suspect a DD torped, there is no way I can turn and be sure those torps aren't going to hit me all along my broadside. With sub-torps, I can bait them, make them home in on one spot, DCP, make my safe turn with zero risk of any spread and be angled outwards long before the next torp set is ready.
In certain situations the DCP is a frustrating get-out-of-jail-free card for even the most simple-minded player. I had a situation where I was the last ship alive in a sub and there was a full-HP CV on the enemy team left. You can't ping it, cause the DCP will last a min and you get the ASW in return, you can't use the fast torps, cause they won't be enough to dev strike. You can't torp from range, cause the high damage torps are too slow and the CV will easily dodge them. All you got left is the shotgun attack and hope it dies before the depth charges go off.

I think that is the appeal of the shotgun attacks, you get what you plan for.

Edited October 16, 2023 by HMS_Kilinowski

[Admiral_Karasu]

14 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 I had a situation where I was the last ship alive in a sub and there was a full-HP CV on the enemy team left. You can't ping it, cause the DCP will last a min and you get the ASW in return, you can't use the fast torps, cause they won't be enough to dev strike. You can't torp from range, cause the high damage torps are too slow and the CV will easily dodge them. All you got left is the shotgun attack and hope it dies before the depth charges go off.

 

Okay, you win. That's even more stupid.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

I think that is the appeal of the shotgun attacks, you get what you plan for.

If the torpedo warheads are potent enough.  🙂 
Several submarines have torpedoes that require multiple hits to sink a full-health battleship.

In my opinion, it is preferable for a submarine attack to sink a target in one salvo without the use of "pings".
Because launching a torpedo attack reveals my position (to some extent and in some fashion) and the retaliation of air-strike depth-charges might sink me.

Ideally, I'll get into a favorable position, launch torpedoes, and then begin my escape from the vicinity, or alter course to target another ship while my torpedoes reload.
If all goes well, for me, the first target will be sunk without knowing what hit them until it was too late.

But, a lot of things can go wrong for me as a submarine player.  I've been surprised and surrounded and ignominiously sunk on several occasions.

That said ...

 

[AkiraKurai]

U-4501 cannot SG a ship reliably, when you SG as a sub you're expecting to kill a target not cripple it.

If you decide to SG a target that also has hydro you're now sub 2km below him where he can spot you at any depth, combine that with the the issue of needing to ramp your speed back up fron periscope down to 30 he'll have time to send another DC strike on you, assuming he decided to send 2 out initially.

4501 does about 75% of the dmg 2501 dumb fire torps do, which is what is used to SG a target. Combined that with the fact that you also have 2/3 of the tubes a 2501 has and now you've neutered your SG potential to 50% of what a 2501 would do in a single strike.

Edited October 16, 2023 by AkiraKurai

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

This is a good example of what I ment with "Underwater Benham". And I dont mean the damage but the way he just Donuts around and spew torps out from each side the whole match.

 

Also fitting to the subject that he ends the game by ramming a Benham.

[Subtle_Octavian]

I'll wait for the soviet subs, you know they will be all kinds of dumb.

 

[b101uk]

6 minutes ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

I'll wait for the soviet subs, you know they will be all kinds of dumb.

 

They will come with the VA-111 Shkval supercavitating torpedo's capable of >200kts 😉

[Jakob Knight]

9 minutes ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

I'll wait for the soviet subs, you know they will be all kinds of dumb.

 

 

This is another reason I'm not rushing to get the 4501.  I already have the 2501, which I think matches my playstyle better, and the Gato, which I haven't spent enough time in to really get comfortable with.  The 4501 will be there if I decide to get it later, and what might be coming out in the meantime (and not necessarily in Subs) makes me hold off on the 4501 even more.

 

 

[Subtle_Octavian]

3 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

This is another reason I'm not rushing to get the 4501.  I already have the 2501, which I think matches my playstyle better, and the Gato, which I haven't spent enough time in to really get comfortable with.  The 4501 will be there if I decide to get it later, and what might be coming out in the meantime (and not necessarily in Subs) makes me hold off on the 4501 even more.

 

 

The 4501 high speed is only below periscope, so you're pretty much blind unless the hydro is running. It drops speed like a brick as well, from 37 to 27 the second you pass the layer boundary. 

[Jakob Knight]

26 minutes ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

The 4501 high speed is only below periscope, so you're pretty much blind unless the hydro is running. It drops speed like a brick as well, from 37 to 27 the second you pass the layer boundary. 

 

Indeed.  I rather like the constant speed of the 2501 matched with it's much greater underwater capacity.  The ability to switch to standard torpedoes is attractive too.

 

As I said, I might still pick up the 4501, but it's not burning a hole in my pocket to reach my coal reserves.

 

 

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

On 10/15/2023 at 2:26 PM, Verblonde said:

Aye, but only because I had buckets of coal spare, and she's quite pretty (for a submarine).

I won't be playing her against real people though (because I'm not a cat-shaving psychopath); based on an initial run-out, she's vaguely fun in Coop.

"Why deny yourself food when you see others are fat"

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

This is a good example of what I ment with "Underwater Benham". And I dont mean the damage but the way he just Donuts around and spew torps out from each side the whole match.

 

Also fitting to the subject that he ends the game by ramming a Benham.

Thanks for sharing.
That video was a useful "third person test-drive", for me.

[tm63au]

14 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

If the torpedo warheads are potent enough.  🙂 
Several submarines have torpedoes that require multiple hits to sink a full-health battleship.

In my opinion, it is preferable for a submarine attack to sink a target in one salvo without the use of "pings".
Because launching a torpedo attack reveals my position (to some extent and in some fashion) and the retaliation of air-strike depth-charges might sink me.

Ideally, I'll get into a favorable position, launch torpedoes, and then begin my escape from the vicinity, or alter course to target another ship while my torpedoes reload.
If all goes well, for me, the first target will be sunk without knowing what hit them until it was too late.

But, a lot of things can go wrong for me as a submarine player.  I've been surprised and surrounded and ignominiously sunk on several occasions.

That said ...

 

love this film

 

[tm63au]

12 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

This is a good example of what I ment with "Underwater Benham". And I dont mean the damage but the way he just Donuts around and spew torps out from each side the whole match.

 

Also fitting to the subject that he ends the game by ramming a Benham.

Honestly I could think of anywhere up to half a dozen U- Boat's that would be worthy of premium status U 47, U 96, U 99, U 156 to name but a few these ships would fall in the Tier 6 to 8 category, all famous for varies reasons and Commanders, however it seems WG does not seem to interested in history.

Now don't wrong U 4501 has history just not operational history, I do intend to get her but I wish some of the above U- Boats I mentioned see the light of day in the game.    

[Yedwy]

IDK what kind of torps that thing has but its disgusting

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

4 hours ago, Yedwy said:

IDK what kind of torps that thing has but its disgusting

Im not sure but I think they are pretty standard German sub torps, but I can be wrong. Maybe slightly better than normal due to only getting homing torps. But I think the design is pretty insane. Your torps are almost up every time each launcher points towards the target when sailing around in donuts (which made me think of Benham torp spam), this paired with a heal, supersonic underwater speed and a surface ping marker that puts you subs position in another area code, also pretty great battery/airsupply and fast regen.... 

[Wolfswetpaws]

 @OldSchoolGaming_Youtube Here is the U-4501 world of warships wiki page.
https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:U-4501

As for the torpedoes, they're listed as ...

Quote

	Rate of Fire (shots/min)	Torpedo Tubes Reload Time (sec)	180° Turn Time (sec)	Maximum Damage (HP)	Torpedo Speed (knot)	Torpedo Range (km)		Research price (exp)	Purchase price ()
G7e T4 and G7e T4 MZ	1	60	15	8,633	82	10		0	0

As I write this post, it seems that the Change Log on the wiki-page for the U-4501 has more text than the rest of the page.
I suppose it is a "work in progress", eh?  🙂 

[Took]

On 10/16/2023 at 7:11 AM, Jakob Knight said:

 

The problem with this tactic is that the aft tubes are separated into 3 port/3 starboard, with no overlap and some space between them.  That means you will be firing two groups of 3 each, and have to turn to bring each to bear, costing you speed in a situation where you are being chased, probably close to Hydro detect range if they have it.

this is incorrect..

[Jakob Knight]

9 minutes ago, Took said:

this is incorrect..

 

 

 

At 2:39, you can see the aft tube firing arcs, along with the spacing between them where neither can fire.

 

 

 

 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

On 10/16/2023 at 8:44 PM, Subtle_Octavian said:

I'll wait for the soviet subs, you know they will be all kinds of dumb.

 

That as well. Apparently, they will become the biggest counter to other subs if I understood it right. I will definitely grind that line as soon it gets released but meanwhile, I will be rockin some insane games in this sub.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

On 10/17/2023 at 8:53 PM, Jakob Knight said:

 

 

 

At 2:39, you can see the aft tube firing arcs, along with the spacing between them where neither can fire.

 

 

 

 

I dont really see why this is a problem tho? You just go around in donuts at periscope depth and launch every time a launcher points at the target. If you wanna shotgun backwards there is a minimal wiggle you need to do for the launch angles to overlap same direction. I mean the gap is minimal.

Edited October 19, 2023 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[ole_seabee]

I just picked one up after reading this thread. Im not very good at shotgunning so maybe this will fit my play style. I give it a go in co-op to start with.