On criticizing Wargaming.

[clammboy]

57 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Except that this assertion runs counter to what actually happened...which is that WG gave refunds for not disclosing the contoured algorithm until it was essentially datamined by the customers.

WarGaming ADMITTED to misleading the customers.

This continued expression of a false narrative is concerning...particularly considering HogHammers post.

Ad hominem.

Look, name names if you are going to cast aspersions. If you aren't comfortable naming names, perhaps you shouldn't cast the aspersion.

---------------------------------------------------------------

There appears to be a concerted effort in this thread from a number of posters (Clammboy, iDuckman, Ensign Cthulu, Type_93) to peddle a number of false narratives, and pick fights with anyone who rightly posts the facts or attempts to provide a different opinion.

Given the context of how this thread was started, I am concerned that the whole purpose of the thread is to propagate a set of lies and then troll those who look at things differently.

I have already taken some of my concerns to PMs, where the posters involved behaved entirely differently than they do in this thread.

I would encourage everyone to stop engaging here in this thread or with the above posters, as it appears that the purposes and issues expressed here are not constructive in any way.

Yea good idea stay with the cancel culture if you dont like boycott it's very popular today.

Edited October 14, 2023 by clammboy

[b101uk]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Except that this assertion runs counter to what actually happened...which is that WG gave refunds for not disclosing the contoured algorithm until it was essentially datamined by the customers.

WarGaming ADMITTED to misleading the customers.

This continued expression of a false narrative is concerning...particularly considering HogHammers post.

only WG didn't admit to doing anything wrong or misleading people, they just said sorry that SOME people were disappointed.

"We're sorry that some of you are left disappointed by the Santa Containers this year"

 

and as a sign of good faith to anyone who got their knickers in a twist due to some notion of entitlement could get a refund.

 

it seams your assertion runs counter to what actually happened, in that there was NO apology for doing something wrong, because they didn't do anything wrong per se.

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/144375-psa-santa-containers/

 

[clammboy]

15 minutes ago, WildSide said:

Not giving money to a business is one of the few direct ways consumers can make a meaningful difference. This isn't a new concept. 

Thats cool never said it was not as a matter of fact I said I applaud players who are free to play or dont spend money on the game because its not easy.

[clammboy]

27 minutes ago, clammboy said:

WarGaming ADMITTED to misleading the customers.

Also get your facts straight .

[Admiral_Karasu]

Here are some of the facts.

http://www.fed.org.cy/fed/userfiles/CBC6177_Wargaming_Decision_Public.pdf

The gist of it was this:

Quote

Given the above, the Jury find that the Santa gifts campaign as is, is in breach of articles 3b and 5a of the Cyprus Advertising Code and needs to be amended. It should be amended within 5 working days from the dispatch of this decision.

 

[AdmiralThunder]

I would say this thread has runs its course and is now just arguing back and forth.

[WaveRider]

On 10/12/2023 at 8:40 PM, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Back when I was a lad, and had to walk uphill both directions to and from school in the snow, and before home gaming consoles and 8-bit microcomputers were a big thing, we had these things called video game arcades. You went to the place and you put coins in the machines. Inevitably your vehicle would die, or the game had a time limit, and then you had to feed in more coins. They were taking from your pocket every time you played. Sometimes you had to buy their (unrefundable) tokens to work the machines.

If I had gone into one of those places and proceeded to play while simultaneously voicing loudly to everyone within range that the proprietors were a bunch of malicious crooks and shakedown merchants, I'd have been, in escalating order:

1) Asked to leave.

2) Thrown out.

3) Told not to return. 

...regardless of how many of their unrefundable tokens I still had in my pocket or how much I had previously spent there.

 

 

If I'm polite, quiet and infrequent in my criticisms of WG's "greedy, money-hungry ways", and tend to react harshly to those who are less polite, quiet and infrequent, maybe it's because I remember a time when the gaming companies took your money just for the privilege of playing, getting the game changed because you didn't like the way it played was simply not on the cards, and repeatedly insulting and libelling the people who provided you the opportunity to play was likely to get you locked out. 

Now if you want to point at something specific and say "This is not a good bargain because...", chances are I'll say "Nope, I'm not buying that either, and for the same reason." But dragging out the malicious-motives argument isn't going to find you in my good graces, especially with regard to content that either doesn't have to be paid for or can't be bought at any price.

 

Gaming companies did not take your money, you went to the arcade, looked what game was on offer, and because you recognised a game and you liked it - you spent money. It was an immediate transaction - money paid for a period of time on a machine you knew you liked. If you didn't see the machine you liked you didn't spend - no issues.

 

Now imagine that the arcade said 'Hey instead of buying a few tokens on the night, why not invest and buy many!'. If you do invest, you get more time and bonuses in game. You can buy special equipment and assets, more chances of getting special rewards....if you invest'.

Of course it is up to each person to make that choice, but if you like the game machine, you may well decide to invest.

 

Now imagine you go back with that wad of tokens you invested in and find the original arcade game machine has changed; the company has released the follow-up game. But you bought the tokens to spend on the old game - yes the tokens will still work on the new game, but the new game doesn't seem to provide the same value for the tokens/money invested, the gameplay is not as enjoyable and therefore your investment has deteriorated.

Then the game machine company releases the 3rd edition of the game, then the 4th, then 5th - and with each new edition (patch), your investment seems to be less valuable.

 

You may look back and remember when times were better, where your investment meant more and where the company seemed to be happy with you spending the money on the night for the arcade game you liked (quid pro quo).

In the same way I understand that some may well like each new release of WoWs and may well believe the investment they made is as good as it ever was - I also understand that some may not. So if they want to criticize WG, why not?

Again, if the criticism includes reference to examples - then I see no issue in the post.

Unsure if you are referring to a specific thread/post when you say someone has declared WG malicious (or if you just used that wording to try and make complaining sound worse than what it is...complaining). Do I believe WG acted with malice, intending to do harm? No. Do I believe they are indifferent/don't care about the player base/community except as a platform to advertise and make them money - absolutely (and that is sad in my opinion).🙁

 

[Andrewbassg]

4 hours ago, iDuckman said:

IMO, the whole thing was funny.  "You get a Mak.  And you get a Mak.  Everyone gets a Mak!"  😂

Yes it was . Not at least because of Wedgie's response.  Banning the word (Makarov) from twitch, then people getting creative with it, only to Wedgie to start banning people over it. 

There is a scene in Chernobyl (miniseries) where two scientists talk over the phone discussing what measures have been taken taken, using what in hungarian is called "flower language". That scene is super accurate and I know that because that's exactly how I or anyone else had to talk over the phone about "sensitive" (and not only!!)  issues. For the children of the Warsaw Pact it was as an everydaything as it is, for example for US people MacDonalds.

4 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Even if you hate him,

Oh I would have loved to get my hand on one ( for ops reasons) . But then again, I'm not a "crate guy" 🙂 

 

[iDuckman]

54 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Oh I would have loved to get my hand on one ( for ops reasons) .

Yeah, Mak isn't a bad little ship.  People who never played him were up in arms due, IMO your phrase is a good one, "entitlement".

-----

I think I'm through with this thread.  Try not to call me out of retirement.

 

[Chobittsu]

Aighty... I've tried to avoid saying anything here due to any potential of people saying I have a conflict of interest on some of the subject matter, but given this thread has received the overwhelming majority of reports regarding slander and added hominid attacks being thrown around between everyone, probably wouldn't hurt to step in and remind everyone to play nice.
This is a fairly new pool we're all playing in and, despite it being our jobs as lifeguards, we don't enjoy having to step in when folk start whapping each other in the face with soggy pool noodles.

Keep things civil or we're gonna have to lock this one up and the whole song and dance will start over on some other new thread.
Now if you'll excuse me, my evening soup is just about ready

[Asym]

37 minutes ago, Chobittsu said:

Aighty... I've tried to avoid saying anything here due to any potential of people saying I have a conflict of interest on some of the subject matter, but given this thread has received the overwhelming majority of reports regarding slander and added hominid attacks being thrown around between everyone, probably wouldn't hurt to step in and remind everyone to play nice.
This is a fairly new pool we're all playing in and, despite it being our jobs as lifeguards, we don't enjoy having to step in when folk start whapping each other in the face with soggy pool noodles.

Keep things civil or we're gonna have to lock this one up and the whole song and dance will start over on some other new thread.
Now if you'll excuse me, my evening soup is just about ready

Well, oh-kay, if we have to.........

Sigh.........and.....shucks.  There goes the neighborhood.....acting like "normal folk..."

[MBT808]

13 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

The idea is to say something so WG will fix the issue. If they won't fix the issues with World of Warships we openly criticize, then there are a number of explanations why WG will not act upon it. They might not see any issue, in which case you'd expect them to at least acknowledge they have responded to the criticism and looked into it. It might not make us happy if the issue remains, though, but at least it's two way communication. There's also different types of issues, some are subjective, some are absolute. The latter ones are something that there should be no disagreement over, not among the different 'schools of thought' that the various players belong to, nor with Wargaming themselves.

I call @Sailor_Moon and California to take the stand please. When it comes to criticism and constructive feedback to WG, California is one of the best examples.

[Frostbow]

8 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

There appears to be a concerted effort in this thread from a number of posters (Clammboy, iDuckman, Ensign Cthulu, Type_93) to peddle a number of false narratives, and pick fights with anyone who rightly posts the facts or attempts to provide a different opinion.

I enjoy reading good discussions on the merits of Wargaming's decisions in World of Warships. There are a lot of topics that players talk and have passionate discussions about online, and there is value in the variety of experiences and perspectives shared. Some are gold, some are just plain ranting. Some are also due to possible misunderstanding of complicated details. 

However, I can also confirm that there indeed has been an effort to rewrite what has happened before, and you can see it here, right on this very thread. Certain individuals unfairly treated by Wargaming are now accused of dishonesty, effectively blaming them on the hugely embarrassing PR mess made by Wargaming, 2 years after it happened. And players need to be constantly vigilant against such creeping efforts. 

 

8 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Nor are they the ethical and good company you and OP clearly seem to think they are.

Wargaming even made a code that publicly insulted and humiliated a Community Contributor who discovered the Developers sorely lacked the number of hours of gameplay necessary to have a balanced experienced in the live server. That incident was even covered by PC Gaming. 

 

7 hours ago, WaveRider said:

Gaming companies did not take your money, you went to the arcade, looked what game was on offer, and because you recognised a game and you liked it - you spent money. It was an immediate transaction - money paid for a period of time on a machine you knew you liked. If you didn't see the machine you liked you didn't spend - no issues.

Now imagine that the arcade said 'Hey instead of buying a few tokens on the night, why not invest and buy many!'. If you do invest, you get more time and bonuses in game. You can buy special equipment and assets, more chances of getting special rewards....if you invest'.

Of course it is up to each person to make that choice, but if you like the game machine, you may well decide to invest.

Now imagine you go back with that wad of tokens you invested in and find the original arcade game machine has changed; the company has released the follow-up game. But you bought the tokens to spend on the old game - yes the tokens will still work on the new game, but the new game doesn't seem to provide the same value for the tokens/money invested, the gameplay is not as enjoyable and therefore your investment has deteriorated.

Then the game machine company releases the 3rd edition of the game, then the 4th, then 5th - and with each new edition (patch), your investment seems to be less valuable.

Well said. 

It is rather unfortunate that this thread started on a defective note, comparing World of Warships to that of an arcade game (the literal arcade game) with buttons and immediate transactions.

 

9 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Given the context of how this thread was started, I am concerned that the whole purpose of the thread is to propagate a set of lies and then troll those who look at things differently.

The more I read the first post in this thread, the more I see it is as simply a subtle way of informing the reader that:

• there are now more stuff we can get for free,
• so we should be sparing in our critiques of Wargaming,
• because if not, it will not put us in someone's 'good graces'.

 

 

[HogHammer]

This discussion appears to have reached a conclusion in that all possible points have been covered in the greatest of detail.  For all those who have read and offered valuable insights and opinions, I thank you.

It is, however, time to end this discussion and move on.