Since WeeGee says there is no aiming bug...

[Andrewbassg]

10 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I remember .....

Oouch.......I'm sorry Ensign, but you understand(ed), exactly, jack.

First, she didn't had a written contract with them (NDA's notwithstanding)

Second. she  wasn't paid by WarGambling (for her reviews. I understand that she was a CM at one point and I dk what that entailed).

Third ... not all persons feel responsibility, in the same way and to the same extent. We all have (quite) different redlines. What that means? She felt responsible for helping to build a community,  which WarGambling reduced , conceptually and in practice to a banana field and ....actually worse, by implementing all sorts of predatory monetisation tactics. It is one thing having  "game funnies" and it is another to  (openly) try cut one's wallet, while "smiling" at you.

Except, she is not at fault and she is NOT responsible, because she, as we all, was deceived and used.

Wargaming (i.e wows) initially had a pretty honest and generous  approach towards its players and the game and managed to build a LOT of goodwill and gathered around a LOT of people, who all acted in good faith and wanted to help an upcoming and promising developer and game. But now we know that all of that was just a facade.  There is a specific  word and a well  estabilished  tactic in their part of the word  for this. It is called maskirovka. I suggest that you look it up, I can't post links coz it is also ( inevitably )associated with current events.

For me, to provide a comprehensive explanation, about their motivations and MO's, publicly,  is ......impossible , because entails discussing at length the URSS, its legacy, its ( materialist) ideology and its lasting effects on different societies  (we talk about 100!! or so years)  and we don't discuss politics here.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Andrewbassg

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 minute ago, Andrewbassg said:

Oouch.......I'm sorry Ensign, but you understand(ed), exactly, jack.

First, she didn't had a written contract with them (NDA's notwithstanding)

Second. she  wasn't paid by WarGambling (for her reviews. I understand that she was a CM at one point and I dk what that entailed).

Third ... not all persons feel responsibility, in the same way and to the same extent. We all have (quite) different redlines. What that means? She felt responsible for helping to build a community,  which WarGambling reduced , conceptually and in practice to a banana field and ....actually worse, by implementing all sorts of predatory monetisation tactics. It is one thing having  "game funnies" and it is another to  (openly) try cut one's wallet, while "smiling" at you.

Except, she is not at fault and she is NOT responsible, because she, as we all, was deceived and used.

Wargaming (i.e wows) initially had a pretty honest and generous  approach towards its players and the game and managed to build a LOT of goodwill and gathered around a LOT of people, who all acted in good faith and wanted to help an upcoming and promising developer and game. But now we know that all of that was just a facade.  There is a specific  word and a well  estabilished  tactic in their part of the word  for this. It is called maskirovka. I suggest that you look it up, I can't post links coz it is also ( inevitably )associated with current events.

For me, to provide a comprehensive explanation, about their motivations. publicly,  is ......impossible , because entails discussing at length the URSS, its legacy, its ( materialist) ideology and its lasting effects on different societies  (we talk about 100!! or so years)  and we don't discuss politics here.

I doubt that we are going to change ECs mind about something like this.

Plus, it's beside the point which has already been made...

...there remain artillery bugs in the game, WG has financial incentives to rig outcomes to encourage sales and playtime increases, and taking WG staff or announcements at face value has been historically foolish.

EC can claim all he wants that the above isn't so...and he can continue his Quixotic attacks on LWM for as long as he chooses. That is his right.

We don't need to waste time with him on this.

[Chobittsu]

It may be his, and our of our, right to disagree. Either with Wargaming, or each other. But insults won't be tolerated here.    Keep things clean, cause I dont' want the paperwork of stepping in.

[Andrewbassg]

9 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

...there remain artillery bugs in the game,

Yeeah.....we have LOTS of 'em....

 

3 hours ago, SgtSpud1 said:

Seen this many times....you are aiming low at the front of the CV  which is angled with the front being closer and the stern being furthest away the CV is coming toward you so when your shells hit they are missing the stern because it is further away. Raise your aim a little and they all will hit or give more lead and they hit.......no bug here.

 

In my experience.... its not that simple. Indeed Cv's have a different motion and acceleration characteristics as hulls, buuut......there definitively is "something else" at play as well. Maybe.... WG didn't liked the Cv hunter divisions and implemented "something funny".

 

[clammboy]

We need new blood in here..... The same people just complaining and the same people just defending..... Boring!!

Edited September 25, 2023 by clammboy

[Admiral_Karasu]

10 hours ago, SgtSpud1 said:

Seen this many times....you are aiming low at the front of the CV  which is angled with the front being closer and the stern being furthest away the CV is coming toward you so when your shells hit they are missing the stern because it is further away. Raise your aim a little and they all will hit or give more lead and they hit.......no bug here.

Yeah, there's definitely something 'funny' about the aim and it really becomes apparent when you are firing at an angled target. I can't explain it expect by saying that relative to the target speed the 'aim point' moves off beam in some strange way. It's either a bug, or an intended feature (that makes no sense) or what is displayed for us in game does not match the bearing/position on the server.

[Admiral_Karasu]

8 hours ago, Chobittsu said:

Gentlemen, please keep things civil

And lady.. ladies? I assume there must be at least one... right?

[Type_93]

21 hours ago, WES_HoundDog said:

Everything in this game confirms it,  many years of experiencing it.  It's rigged, you can go troll elsewhere.

 

Oh please. He wasn’t trolling and you were notorious for your half brained conspiracy theories from the old forums. Bottom line from your OP, you got out played and you don’t want to acknowledge that fact. RNG worked against you is all. WES and a few other posters here are always trying to act like WG is the enemy and the “they won’t get another done from me” line only holds up the Xmas events. The game will always have bugs and glitches but it’s not some grand conspiracy by WG against its own players. Accept that or quit playing. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 hour ago, Type_93 said:

Oh please. He wasn’t trolling and you were notorious for your half brained conspiracy theories from the old forums. Bottom line from your OP, you got out played and you don’t want to acknowledge that fact. RNG worked against you is all. WES and a few other posters here are always trying to act like WG is the enemy and the “they won’t get another done from me” line only holds up the Xmas events. The game will always have bugs and glitches but it’s not some grand conspiracy by WG against its own players. Accept that or quit playing. 

So it's just outright incompetence?

[Type_93]

4 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

So it's just outright incompetence?

A lot of the time, yes. I do dumb stuff and get deleted on the regular. I have RNG slap me with the big NOPE on the regular too. But it’s no WG “rigging” matches. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

2 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

A lot of the time, yes. I do dumb stuff and get deleted on the regular. I have RNG slap me with the big NOPE on the regular too. But it’s no WG “rigging” matches. 

Well.. I was actually referring to WG incompetence when it came to bugs, glitches, and overall problems with the game and the meta.

[WildWind84]

8 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

And lady.. ladies? I assume there must be at least one... right?

I know for one woman in this forum 🙂 

[Admiral_Karasu]

2 minutes ago, WildWind84 said:

I know for one woman in this forum 🙂 

Looks around and only sees elderly gents in big heavy leather upholstered armchairs enjoying their cigars and a shot of whisky or the fashionable brandy and fashoda by the fireplace.

Must be wearing one heck of a disguise then.

[LittleWhiteMouse]

On 9/24/2023 at 4:53 AM, Yedwy said:

Dude you do know WG actually bragged about having MM code patents right? Or do you seriously think somebody granted a patent for an RNG generator?

This comes up often and it's used to demonize Wargaming unfairly (there are plenty of issues to demonize Wargaming over, this isn't one of them).  The patents aren't a smoking gun.

The patents are there because they can make / save money on it.  While working on various matchmaking systems (and Wargaming worked on several), they explored different avenues of how to tweak and modify their algorithms.  Those that were most promising, they patented.  Having a patent doesn't mean a design must be used; it simply provides ownership protections.  This is stupidly important because:

1. You can sue others that infringe upon your patents.
2. You can protect yourself from being sued by others for perceived copyright infringement.

By 2012, Wargaming had become a VERY big fish quite suddenly.  World of Tanks was making stupid amounts of money.  And guess what?  When you've got money in the bank, the sharks come a-circlin'.  You can be VERY pro-active when it comes to litigation, if someone comes sniffing, you just need to comb through your rolodex of patents, look for something that's kinda-sorta close to what your would-be predator uses.  If they claim against your X, you claim against their Y.  Suddenly litigation becomes too expensive to be worth while.

The existence of a patent isn't evidence of it's use.  If there is evidence of it's use, I'm all ears, but in the 10+ years I've been playing Wargaming's products, no one has brought forward anything but the simple anecdote of:  "I think I'm better at video games than my stats are indicating.  This MUST mean that the system is rigged against me!"

[I_cant_Swim_]

29 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Looks around and only sees elderly gents in big heavy leather upholstered armchairs enjoying their cigars and a shot of whisky or the fashionable brandy and fashoda by the fireplace.

Must be wearing one heck of a disguise then.

^^Ahem...

[Type_93]

1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Well.. I was actually referring to WG incompetence when it came to bugs, glitches, and overall problems with the game and the meta.

It’s not incompetence. No game developer has ever released a perfect game. Never. There will always be bugs and glitches. As for the meta, that’s a player driven issue, not a WG issue  

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

25 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

It’s not incompetence. No game developer has ever released a perfect game. Never. There will always be bugs and glitches. As for the meta, that’s a player driven issue, not a WG issue  

 

Well, if the same bugs persist for years on end without being addressed, or even acknowledged by WG... what would we call that if not incompetence. I don't think meta is simply a player issue, except as far as by meta we mean how players react and adapt to currently existing iterations of the game mechanics. The mechanics, how they work, the fact that they do work at all, and how the game is set up is WG's responsibility, and IMHO, they've been doing a poorer and poorer job of it with every passing year. Since I would potentially want to be playing a game that is fun and engaging, for real that is, and I would prefer to be doing that to varying degrees for several years to come, I'm not exactly happy how things stand.

[NMA101]

The nature of WoWs receiving an update every month, and the developers often forcing "change just for the sake of change", means that bugs, glitches, and other undesired features are far more likely to occur than in more "polished" games by top-tier gaming companies, which typically have much longer development cycles. I will agree that this update, 12.8, was particularly bad (possibly the worst) for "launch day" bugs, including:

• Operations being restricted to Newport only
• Bayard coupon not working in Armory
• Battle mode constantly switching back to Random, even if Brawl was selected
• New gunnery bug (see Flamu video) when zooming in/out near islands

Of these, the first two were fixed within a few days, the others we shall wait and see. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

2 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

no one has brought forward anything but the simple anecdote of:  "I think I'm better at video games than my stats are indicating.  This MUST mean that the system is rigged against me!"

I'm not entirely sure that's true...

Plus, it's a bit of a strawman.

There has been some pretty interesting assessments around premium time begetting more premium time in loot boxes...

...and when bringing an AA spec ship not seeing CVs, but playing a weak ship against planes seeing planes.

Heck, I've not seen Operation Killer Whale when playing Pobeda in a long, LONG time. It's almost always Aegis...

Most credible rigging theories I see are all connected to the monetization of the game, and not the win of loss aspect...

[Andrewbassg]

5 hours ago, Type_93 said:

WG is the enemy

Yes, absolutely 🙂 . Of themselves.,unquestionably and  also the biggest. Otherwise, (coz I feel targeted 🙂 )...

 

5 hours ago, Type_93 said:

WES and a few other posters here are always trying to act like WG is the enemy

....actually.... no. However THE problem is that the player's interests and Wedgie's interests are, seemingly,  oddly and mindbogglingly, are fundamentally at..... odds. And that is entirely on them. Because it shouldn't be.

The player's interests are: to have fun, preserve the fun game elements and to play the game as long as is fun.

But, instead, Weegee are masters in, on  and about  how to alienate their biggest supporters, to piss off the playerbase, to make bad decisions after bad decisions, to rub the game of the last fun elements. (note the common element with the above line).

 

3 hours ago, Type_93 said:

It’s not incompetence.

That's correct.

There is a basic and quite fundamental disconnect, between the players (aka gamers)  and Weegee(Remember how they treated Fem? Yep.) The motives as to why are quite complex and not as simple as  "they are a company". For  one to comprehend those,  one has to understand  how the URSS functioned as a society and what was its culture. and its lasting , still transcending legacy.

In short  (and very incompletely) there was no entertainment (let alone industry) in the URSS. You either were an artist, and you were recognised as such, or you weren't, because what was considered art was officially defined .Therefore gaming was considered a  "deviancy" ( as not being productive)  and gamers were considered lumpen elements of the society, not acceptable by soviet standards, which entailed  forced assignment to a workplace and even prison terms in penal colonies, as to not set bad examples for others.  And they did this for....quite some time. in 90% of Russia is still not socially acceptable to be a gamer, even if it is not officially sanctioned any more (lets say)

 

So... Weegee  has exactly zero chance to make themselves understood and more crucially. to understood its own playerbase. Because they are also pigheaded and merrily waived farewell to their CC's, who were their only form to keep their finger on the pulse of the playerbase. I mean....besides being faced with  reviewbombing....

 

 

Edit: Almost forget

3 hours ago, Type_93 said:

As for the meta, that’s a player driven issue, not a WG issue

That's not entirely correct. Weegee has the means and does try to shape the meta. Sec guns hits  reward increase, reduction to defense ribbons.......all point to them trying to make  people to push. Except, subs exists.....

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Andrewbassg
Typos, formatting

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I'm not entirely sure that's true...

Plus, it's a bit of a strawman.

There has been some pretty interesting assessments around premium time begetting more premium time in loot boxes...

...and when bringing an AA spec ship not seeing CVs, but playing a weak ship against planes seeing planes.

Heck, I've not seen Operation Killer Whale when playing Pobeda in a long, LONG time. It's almost always Aegis...

Most credible rigging theories I see are all connected to the monetization of the game, and not the win of loss aspect...

That matches my experience in many ways..... If MM would be just a "simple assigner" then there wouldn't be odd waiting times, even if otherwise there are enough players in the segment....

[LittleWhiteMouse]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I'm not entirely sure that's true...

Plus, it's a bit of a strawman.

There has been some pretty interesting assessments around premium time begetting more premium time in loot boxes...

...and when bringing an AA spec ship not seeing CVs, but playing a weak ship against planes seeing planes.

Heck, I've not seen Operation Killer Whale when playing Pobeda in a long, LONG time. It's almost always Aegis...

Most credible rigging theories I see are all connected to the monetization of the game, and not the win of loss aspect...

The proof is in the pudding, I'm afraid.  And while it does sound cruel, conspiracy theories about being "held back" by whatever RNG-based element (matchmaking, dispersion, map selection, loot box drops, etc) don't amount to a lick until evidence is provided -- and so it comes off as just petulance.

And let's be clear:  It is possible to find and demonstrate evidence where tampering exists.  Most famously in recent memory should be the Christmas Loot Boxes with the weighted drops being categorically proven by the player base until WG owned up to it.  This was a great win for the community and it should be taken as a lesson.  FIND EVIDENCE.  Anecdotes aren't evidence.  Feels aren't evidence.  Our brains are TERRIBLE at seeing patterns in genuine random chaos and it gets worse when we're emotionally invested in the outcome.  Get numbers that others can also generate.

There is genuine danger in constant voicing about being victimized by imaginary malicious systems.  You can talk yourself into seeing problems where they don't exist.  Worse, you can convince others of the same.  And those eyes might be better served looking for where the genuine problems actually are.

[Andrewbassg]

46 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

and so it comes off as just petulance.

That's true. But flogging seems what Wedgie understands and reacts to.

As for evidence.......without looking at the actual code.......is impossible.

 

Completely unrelated  (and I stress that, I wanted to ask you for quite some time about it) what is the explanation behind the odd torp spreading? ( when the torps are launched like overlapped) Is  that a bug?

Edited September 25, 2023 by Andrewbassg

[NMA101]

42 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

The proof is in the pudding, I'm afraid.  And while it does sound cruel, conspiracy theories about being "held back" by whatever RNG-based element (matchmaking, dispersion, map selection, loot box drops, etc) don't amount to a lick until evidence is provided -- and so it comes off as just petulance.

And let's be clear:  It is possible to find and demonstrate evidence where tampering exists.  Most famously in recent memory should be the Christmas Loot Boxes with the weighted drops being categorically proven by the player base until WG owned up to it.  This was a great win for the community and it should be taken as a lesson.  FIND EVIDENCE.  Anecdotes aren't evidence.  Feels aren't evidence.  Our brains are TERRIBLE at seeing patterns in genuine random chaos and it gets worse when we're emotionally invested in the outcome.  Get numbers that others can also generate.

There is genuine danger in constant voicing about being victimized by imaginary malicious systems.  You can talk yourself into seeing problems where they don't exist.  Worse, you can convince others of the same.  And those eyes might be better served looking for where the genuine problems actually are.

Your observations are fair and accurate, well stated. There are two items that I think are worth discussing:

• Matchmaking in Brawls is not balanced, or randomized. At least half of the matches feature unequal number of ship classes between teams, (e.g. 3 dds and 1 bb vs 2 cruisers and 2 bbs.) This is explicitly stated in the loading screen, so WG is not hiding that fact. But does anyone have more details on how it works? Anecdotally, if I have won several matches in a row, I will start to encounter Gold League ranked (theoretically good) players. Conversely if I am having a bad run, eventually MM will put me in a match with such bad players that my average stats can carry the team and swing the match in my favor. 
• How do you feel about WG forcing RNG into situations where it is unnecessary? Best example is module (main armament, torpedo tube) HP. It was only discovered this year! that the HP on those is predetermined by RNG at the beginning of a match, and the disparity can sometimes be significant (one example had a Shima torp tube having twice the HP of another). Why does WG not simply apply an equal distribution of HP to all modules of the same ship?
  I just do not understand what purpose that serves, other than to make players more frustrated and play more games? Or is it to force players to spend credits on Main Armaments Mod 1 (but everyone does that already)? Because these days players are more likely to quit, possibly permanently. 
  This is not "rigging matches" in a strict sense, but it adds an unnecessary level of randomness that serves no benefit. 

 

[HogHammer]

There have already been two requests from moderators to keep the conversation on this thread civil.  That means having a little respect for other's thoughts or opinions.  There is no need to nitpick (attack in some cases) other individual's posts.  This back-and-forth is not good for the forum or its members when the thread is heading in the wrong direction.

There are obvious differences of opinions, but just because they may differ from your opinions does not make them fair game for, in some cases, hostile attacks. Again, show respect and keep it civil.