What mod shows your teammates PR?

[WES_HoundDog]

God i need this.   I can't stand being supported by toilets anymore and expecting anything from them.

[Frostbow]

5 minutes ago, WES_HoundDog said:

God i need this.   I can't stand being supported by toilets anymore and expecting anything from them.

Sometimes it does really happen. You try to do your best, be civil about the lack of support, and still they can make you angry. It is bad enough that powercreep is ever present, but I think the best recourse is to momentarily STOP! playing the game. 

[Lady Anesjka]

3 hours ago, WES_HoundDog said:

God i need this.   I can't stand being supported by toilets anymore and expecting anything from them.

https://shiptool.st/monitor

Edited Monday at 04:53 AM by Lady Anesjka

[Nautic_Hunt]

Potato Alert.

It's amazing just how many players there are who have - 45% win rates after thousands of battles.

It's also hilarious after a battle when you see that MM shafted you with a 46% w/r average team against a 54% average w/r team, explaining the massively one sided battle.

 

[Wulf_Ace]

2 hours ago, Lady Anesjka said:

https://shiptool.st/monitor

vidi lady anesjka je iz hrvatske

[desmo_2]

In my opinion, a match maker monitor program will only serve to turn you more negative.  It will likely plant the seed many times that the game is lost before it even begins.  I have certainly seen comments from team mates of that sort.  Sometimes they have been correct.  Sometimes they were wrong, and their comments made them look like a fool.  During those victories, the complainer can typically be found in the bottom 1/3 of the team...probably because he put in minimal effort for a game he was told by MMM was going to be a loss.

I have never used such a program and will never use such a program.  In my mindset, every game I start has the potential to be a victory.  But, it's usually okay if it isn't, as I have had countless enjoyable games that ended in defeat.

Mindset is a big deal.  Don't use a program that poisons it.

[torino2dc]

11 hours ago, WES_HoundDog said:

God i need this.   I can't stand being supported by toilets anymore and expecting anything from them.

I don't think you do. Even good players can be unreliable and unpredictable. The only people that can dependably help you when you need it are divmates on voice comms. 

A healthier approach is to modify your play style so that your actions will succeed independently of your teammates. 

[Frostbow]

21 minutes ago, torino2dc said:

I don't think you do. Even good players can be unreliable and unpredictable.

Sometimes, terrible players like me can be counted upon to carry a team to Victory. LOL

[Jakob Knight]

I've never seen the point of such a mod.  By the time you get that info, it's too late.  They are your teammates and you have to work with them or alongside them.  Knowing changes little except your own perception of your chance to win, especially when you need to work harder if your teammates are lacking, not less.  And if you aren't already fighting to the best of your ability, what exactly are you doing?

 

And, the real issue with win rate is that it is not a measure of individual capability.  If you yourself got on successive teams with very bad players, your win rate would plummet and there would be no indication of why you were on a losing team, only that you were.  Judging a player on that without context just leaves you in a situation where good players are seen as bad because of bad luck, failing to pull a bad team out of the fire, or trying to be the team player everyone asks for, and bad players get seen as unicum because they sacrifice their teammates to chase stats or weaken the enemy for them to do mop up...or even are guilty of collusion to have allies throw matches.  These are extreme examples, but illustrate why win rate has to be taken with a grain or several of salt.

 

 

Edited Monday at 03:09 PM by Jakob Knight

[ency]

I am suprulised to see lately that Wows community starts slowly to understand the pointlessness of the TeamsWR. I can't anymore phrase like "Wows cult is mentally sick with it's Stats religion", now i should start to rephrase such saying, putting in "majority of Wows community" etc.

I have done a so called Babysitting tactics where you stay close to a very weak ship, usually to a DD with very bad concealment, or closer to agressive papaerthin cruisers, etc, but usually you can't help much based on the prebattle data. You just usualky concentrate doing as much that you can on weaker closer opponents, and if an enemy team has a strong opponent that meanwhile does the same then you both meet eventually and duel.

 

[22 cm]

15 hours ago, WES_HoundDog said:

God i need this.   I can't stand being supported by toilets anymore and expecting anything from them.

No, You dont need this. You dont need to find out. It is too depressing. 🤣🤣🤣

[Aethervox]

11 hours ago, Nautic_Hunt said:

It's also hilarious after a battle when you see that MM shafted you with a 46% w/r average team against a 54% average w/r team, explaining the massively one sided battle.

This is not hilarious. It is a blatant WG CHEAT as, if the MM was truly random, the average WRs would be much closer together.

[Aethervox]

11 hours ago, Nautic_Hunt said:

It's amazing just how many players there are who have - 45% win rates after thousands of battles.

I may have issues playing & my overall WR on my main account is slowly reducing (it seems), however, I'm far enough away from 45% that it would take some years to get to this particular 'wallow' (or worse). 😁

[Unlooky]

2 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

And, the real issue with win rate is that it is not a measure of individual capability.  If you yourself got on successive teams with very bad players, your win rate would plummet and there would be no indication of why you were on a losing team, only that you were. 

Only true if you were looking at a small selection of games (say 20 or so.) Law of large numbers normalizes out these loss streaks into a value approximate to your overall record. If someone plays 4000 battles with a 40% winrate, that's fairly indicative of poor play. 

 

9 hours ago, desmo_2 said:

In my opinion, a match maker monitor program will only serve to turn you more negative.  It will likely plant the seed many times that the game is lost before it even begins.  I have certainly seen comments from team mates of that sort.  Sometimes they have been correct.  Sometimes they were wrong, and their comments made them look like a fool.  During those victories, the complainer can typically be found in the bottom 1/3 of the team...probably because he put in minimal effort for a game he was told by MMM was going to be a loss.

 

I think that's a player issue and not a MMM program. Those types of people are not the type that should be using MMM, yet do anyways. Potato Alert and MMM both show who is also using the program and the overwhelming majority I never even see in chat. Unfortunately, there are the very vocal players who will find ways to put the blame on everyone but themselves, and MMM is just another way for them to do so. 

[Justin_Simpleton]

3 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

2 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

And, the real issue with win rate is that it is not a measure of individual capability.  If you yourself got on successive teams with very bad players, your win rate would plummet and there would be no indication of why you were on a losing team, only that you were. 

Only true if you were looking at a small selection of games (say 20 or so.) Law of large numbers normalizes out these loss streaks into a value approximate to your overall record. If someone plays 4000 battles with a 40% winrate, that's fairly indicative of poor play. 

Is it really?  That 40% includes the learning process to get better. It also includes the ships a player doesn't play well.  I just checked my Monarch stats where in my 320 battles I have a 47% win rate.  In my EU account my 20 battles in Monarch is 55%, no wait, 21 battles and 57% win rate.  Do you think that win rate is going to drift down to the 47%? I don't think so.

[Unlooky]

6 minutes ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

Is it really?  That 40% includes the learning process to get better. It also includes the ships a player doesn't play well.  I just checked my Monarch stats where in my 320 battles I have a 47% win rate.  In my EU account my 20 battles in Monarch is 55%, no wait, 21 battles and 57% win rate.  Do you think that win rate is going to drift down to the 47%? I don't think so.

Yes. 

 

If you are still 40% after 4000 battles, you are either exceptionally slow at learning or an extremely dedicated (and extremely bad) player. 

 

Ship winrates are a bit different. How many games did you play before the significant Monarch buff? How long was the gap between your NA Monarch games and your EU games? Furthermore, you are not constantly playing one ship over and over again every day. This, and the significantly smaller sample size is why ship winrate is significantly less reliable than account winrate. 

[Justin_Simpleton]

6 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

If you are still 40% after 4000 battles, you are either exceptionally slow at learning or an extremely dedicated (and extremely bad) player. 

I'm at 46% with 12,000 battles primarily solo random with 250 ships.  75% of the battles are with BBs.  I think my progress has been through trial and error and certainly not through feedback with is how I normally learn quickly.  I often wonder if the MMM tainted players just sit back and not support me when push time comes.

[Wowzery]

And some wonder why I avoid random battles now.

[Utt_Bugglier]

9 hours ago, desmo_2 said:

In my opinion, a match maker monitor program will only serve to turn you more negative.  It will likely plant the seed many times that the game is lost before it even begins.  I have certainly seen comments from team mates of that sort.  Sometimes they have been correct.  Sometimes they were wrong, and their comments made them look like a fool.  During those victories, the complainer can typically be found in the bottom 1/3 of the team...probably because he put in minimal effort for a game he was told by MMM was going to be a loss.

I have never used such a program and will never use such a program.  In my mindset, every game I start has the potential to be a victory.  But, it's usually okay if it isn't, as I have had countless enjoyable games that ended in defeat.

Mindset is a big deal.  Don't use a program that poisons it.

You’re provably not going to like this, but here it is:

Players that opine that MMM and similar tools poison one’s mindset, know this only about themselves, and about some subset, of unknown size, of the player base who use it negatively

Players expressing these opinions have no idea of how many users there may be who quietly use the tool to manage their own battles as part of their best effort to help the team win.

3 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

I've never seen the point of such a mod.  By the time you get that info, it's too late.  They are your teammates and you have to work with them or alongside them.  Knowing changes little except your own perception of your chance to win, …

 

Then you haven’t thought it through sufficiently. You gave eleven teammates, and have choice among them in who you support.  It is my experience that my chances of winning go up markedly if I choose to support a strong DD player on my team rather than a weak one. I even get a broad idea of how my support experience will pan out: if the DD I support is high WR with high average damage,  I expect he’ll get kills and danage in front of me, and I need mainly to give him good cover, and be ready to help him roll up the flank as we move forward. If he is high WR/low average damage, then his stock in trade is spotting, and I expect to eat well behind him, as would my other teammates.

23 minutes ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

I'm at 46% with 12,000 battles primarily solo random
…
I often wonder if the MMM tainted players just sit back and not support me when push time comes.

I would argue with your usage of the word “tainted,” but you have come upon a cold aspect of it there.

It is, however, not a matter of “sit back and not support,” but rather a matter of choosing who is best to positively support. If I knowingly go into a cap with a deep red teammate when I could have gone elsewhere with “Smoke on the Water” instead, and deep red throws his ship away, and mine gets sacrificed due to his bad decisions, whereas Smoke On The Water might have thrived with competent support, but then he dies without it, then that is two bad decisions (deep red’s and mine) that cost perhaps three ships, and possibly a loss.

The saying “don’t throw good money after bad” is an accepted maxim/aphorism, I posit that the cold hard WoWs corollary of you “don’t throw good teammates after bad,” is just as true.

The other truth, not so cold, is that if I abandon you, @Justin_Simpleton at “battle start!” and run off with Smoke On The Water and help us grab a win, you get the same credit for winning as does anyone on the team.

And if anyone has any trouble getting what I was alluding to by “Smoke On The Water:”

 

 

[Justin_Simpleton]

14 minutes ago, Utt_Bugglier said:

The other truth, not so cold, is that if I abandon you, @Justin_Simpleton at “battle start!” and run off with Smoke On The Water and help us grab a win, you get the same credit for winning as does anyone on the team.

I will be left wondering why some players are so bad they leave their flank and join the lemming train.  Meanwhile, I'm badass at killing DDs and SS with BBs.  Stats don't show my special talents.

[desmo_2]

35 minutes ago, Utt_Bugglier said:

You’re provably not going to like this, but here it is:

Players that opine that MMM and similar tools poison one’s mindset, know this only about themselves, and about some subset, of unknown size, of the player base who use it negatively

Players expressing these opinions have no idea of how many users there may be who quietly use the tool to manage their own battles as part of their best effort to help the team win.

Actually, I have absolutely no problem with an opposing viewpoint.  I will concede your point that there are probably a lot of players using it who I never hear from, and may enjoy such a program.

My response was more specifically geared to the OP and how he worded his initial post.

[Sambo_Cigars]

6 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

"and bad players get seen as unicum because they sacrifice their teammates to chase stats or weaken the enemy for them to do mop up"

This is exactly the kind of behavior I have been observing for the last year. I am not saying that this behavior started during the last year, obviously, it has always existed, it's just that I became conscious of this highly selfish 'playstyle' over the last year. They even play like this in brawls. Many are not noobs, far from it, they know all about armor schemes, positioning, etc.. And what they also know is how to exploit their team mates so that their team mates take all the risks.

 

Edited Monday at 09:08 PM by Sambo_Cigars

[Sambo_Cigars]

12 hours ago, desmo_2 said:

In my opinion, a match maker monitor program will only serve to turn you more negative.  It will likely plant the seed many times that the game is lost before it even begins.  I have certainly seen comments from team mates of that sort.  Sometimes they have been correct.  Sometimes they were wrong, and their comments made them look like a fool.  During those victories, the complainer can typically be found in the bottom 1/3 of the team...probably because he put in minimal effort for a game he was told by MMM was going to be a loss.

I have never used such a program and will never use such a program.  In my mindset, every game I start has the potential to be a victory.  But, it's usually okay if it isn't, as I have had countless enjoyable games that ended in defeat.

Mindset is a big deal.  Don't use a program that poisons it.

 

Couldn't agree more. These tools aid the selfish players to take their selfish playstyle to another level.

[Wolfswetpaws]

8 hours ago, Frostbow said:

Sometimes, terrible players like me can be counted upon to carry a team to Victory. LOL

 Sounds like a concept for a Clan name?
"The Victorious Terri-bad Players"?  😉 

[Utt_Bugglier]

Just now, Justin_Simpleton said:

I will be left wondering why some players are so bad they leave their flank and join the lemming train. 

Maybe you’re not wondering about the right things. Be honest with yourself.

1 hour ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

Meanwhile, I'm badass at killing DDs and SS with BBs.  Stats don't show my special talents.

Make sure you are being honest with yourself there, too