It has gotten way too easy to get to tier 10

[Verytis]

The fastest way to solve this would just be reducing credit income on losses, while increasing credit income on victories to compensate. Suddenly you'll have an economic incentive to improving, or they'll be forcibly dropped down to lower tiers.

If a player really wants to play badly at high tiers, they can buy bonus packages, premium time/ships. That way they contribute by keeping the servers running.

Horribly effective at filtering players if you think about it.

 

 

21 hours ago, Ocsimano18 said:

You wonder who plays CVs and submarines regularly? Exactly these noobish low skilled players.

There's also the opposite kind of player: tthose of us who don't want to put up with the absurdities that are their team-mates. It can be surprisingly stressful trying to run down your opponents faster than your team kills themselves.

A good CV player has to manage targeting priority, spotting support and ally support across the entire map.

Being a CV comes with high responsibility and your team can report and abuse you if you're clearly fumbling. Even if the match is beyond a CV's ability to salvage.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Verytis

[Justin_Simpleton]

I think it's easy to grind up to tier X without learning the basics.  I don't play tier X ships much because I stink.  Apparently, I haven't put together all the information from all the sources together for instant access while I play.  The reason is I have a lot of trouble getting to the information I need when I'm learning how to play a ship.  

For instance:

Where is the graphic representation of torpedo angles and depth charges?  As far as I know a person has to go into battle to find out.  Of course, there is no certainty the ship will ever get to use that ordinance before dying.

There is also the discrepancy between information shown in wiki vs in-game.  In-game turret rotation is expressed in sec/180deg, wiki shows deg/sec. Reload time in secs vs shots/sec.  In-game does not show caliber in inches.

I haven't yet found a video demonstrating how to learn the things you need to know using the training room.

Is there anywhere that tells what an AP shell of varying caliber is going to penetrate? HE seems to be covered pretty well.

Another thing that makes it very hard to learn this game is getting to know what other ships can do when you won't get to play that ship until you grind and pay your way through.

Oh, and maps.  It would be so helpful if I could jot down some notes on the maps as I learn to play the game.  Does anyone know where I can get a set of maps?

The point of this rant is to say it takes a very long time for a new player to absorb all the information necessary to play as well as those who have played through the changes in this game. Because everyone learns differently and the established learning system may no longer be valid.

 

 

 

[SunkCostFallacy]

8 minutes ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

Another thing that makes it very hard to learn this game is getting to know what other ships can do when you won't get to play that ship until you grind and pay your way through.

 

There's an addon I find invaluable to help remind me of useful details about the ship I'm aiming at.

It's called Info Panel. There are two of them, one by AutoSpy and one by Olin ... I use the latter. Here's a screen shot:

I started using it because I could never remember what BBs had torpedoes which lead to some pretty embarrassing moments 😄

I use Aslains, but I believe that it's called the same thing in ModStation if you prefer that.

16 minutes ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

Oh, and maps.  It would be so helpful if I could jot down some notes on the maps as I learn to play the game.  Does anyone know where I can get a set of maps?

 

If you mean you want pictures of the maps ... you can find some useful info on the wiki. There are small low-res pictures of each map, and if you click on them several of them have pointers to videos from WG discussing tactics for those maps. Have a look at https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Maps  and see if it helps.

[Verytis]

41 minutes ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

The reason is I have a lot of trouble getting to the information I need when I'm learning how to play a ship.  

https://wowsft.com/

https://shiptool.st/

https://asia.wows-numbers.com/ (switch to your server)

https://en.wottactic.com/wows

 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/World_of_Warships

https://worldofwarships.asia/en/content/modstation/

Have fun.

[Nevermore135]

3 hours ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

Where is the graphic representation of torpedo angles and depth charges?  As far as I know a person has to go into battle to find out.  Of course, there is no certainty the ship will ever get to use that ordinance before dying.

This website was good information on firing angles/sectors: https://wowsft.com.

The easiest way to tell is to simply check at the beginning of the battle. Torpedo firing arcs can be found as easily as pressing the “3” key, and if you are unfamiliar with your ship’s depth charge pattern simply drop a spread early on to observe the pattern.

3 hours ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

There is also the discrepancy between information shown in wiki vs in-game.  In-game turret rotation is expressed in sec/180deg, wiki shows deg/sec. Reload time in secs vs shots/sec.

The wiki shows both figures for both turret rotation and reload. Case in point: the main battery information for Bismarck:

 

In-game turret rotation is likely expressed in time taken to traverse 180 degrees because it is a more intuitive and easily grasped representation than rate of rotation.

3 hours ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

In-game does not show caliber in inches.

There’s at least one mod for that. Regardless, I don’t see what the issue is here. All one needs to understand is how gun size relates to penetration, and both are displayed in metric units.

Anyways, if one must think in inches, you don’t really need to memorize every gun caliber’s penetration (HE) and overmatch (AP) characteristics, but just know a few benchmarks. 152mm is 6” (150mm is also effectively 6”), 356mm is 14,” 380mm is 15” (technically 381mm, but both lack 27mm overmatch and are essentially identical), 406mm is 16,” 203mm is 8”, etc. You can then infer performance based on that.

3 hours ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

Is there anywhere that tells what an AP shell of varying caliber is going to penetrate? HE seems to be covered pretty well.

This is because HE penetration is very simple and is unaffected by range and angle. The same is not true for AP. AP penetration decreases with range, and the angle of armor incidence matters, both in regards to bounce checks and the effective thickness of armor the shell actually interacts with (an angled plate presents more material for a shell to pass through). There’s a good article on the wiki, and the fitting tool link I provided above has a handy artillery chart feature to help one better understand AP penetration over distance.

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

I think it's easy to grind up to tier X without learning the basics.  I don't play tier X ships much because I stink.  Apparently, I haven't put together all the information from all the sources together for instant access while I play.  The reason is I have a lot of trouble getting to the information I need when I'm learning how to play a ship.  

For instance:

Where is the graphic representation of torpedo angles and depth charges?  As far as I know a person has to go into battle to find out.  Of course, there is no certainty the ship will ever get to use that ordinance before dying.

There is also the discrepancy between information shown in wiki vs in-game.  In-game turret rotation is expressed in sec/180deg, wiki shows deg/sec. Reload time in secs vs shots/sec.  In-game does not show caliber in inches.

I haven't yet found a video demonstrating how to learn the things you need to know using the training room.

Is there anywhere that tells what an AP shell of varying caliber is going to penetrate? HE seems to be covered pretty well.

Another thing that makes it very hard to learn this game is getting to know what other ships can do when you won't get to play that ship until you grind and pay your way through.

Oh, and maps.  It would be so helpful if I could jot down some notes on the maps as I learn to play the game.  Does anyone know where I can get a set of maps?

The point of this rant is to say it takes a very long time for a new player to absorb all the information necessary to play as well as those who have played through the changes in this game. Because everyone learns differently and the established learning system may no longer be valid.

I agree with you that the torpedo-launching arcs of a ship should be clearly illustrated on the wiki pages for the ship in question.
(Tagging @iDuckman as a way of passing this along as a suggestion.)

Admittedly, I'm curious about how @LittleWhiteMouse has been testing the penetration capabilities of various ship's guns over the years.  The accuracy test is straightforward.  But I've been curious about the penetration tests.  Perhaps now is a good time to share?  What say you, LittlewhiteMouse?
Real-world historic testing data?  Ballistic calculation website or program?  Other source?  🙂 

I agree with you about the formatting of information and the inconsistencies.
I've had to do the math, either mentally or with a calculator on occasion, to convert units of measurement into other units of measurement so that the numbers seem more familiar and understandable.
It's extra effort, but is doable. 
Why we have to do so in the first place seems to originate from the cultural conventions of expressing units in the countries where the in-game computer programming is done. 
Or is it just me?  🙂 

For learning ships with minimal time & credits spent, the Public Test Server is useful.
Granted, it is like installing another copy of WOWs on one's computer. 
Some people have plenty of hard-drive space and others don't. 
But is is an option.

 

[iDuckman]

3 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I agree with you that the torpedo-launching arcs of a ship should be clearly illustrated on the wiki pages for the ship in question.

Without a way to determine and illustrate the arcs (without spending the hours and hours that LWM does) this is a non-starter.  Repeat after me, "650 ships."

@Justin_Simpleton Re: data unit inconsistencies.  IMO Nevermore has answered you well. I admit that the data sidebar on wiki ship pages needs improvement, but currently we have no control over it.  E.g. in the AAA block the only valid data is the AA gun types and counts.  (Thus the warning in the Performance section.)  There is ongoing work to improve that, but it's going to take a while.

Personally, I find the 180' turn time for turrets easier to deal with than '/sec.

Blaming the wiki for your inability to absorb data is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?  This game is much more difficult than it appears on the surface.  Don't make it worse by trying to memorize numbers.  Just get a feel for how the ship performs in battle.  Read the Performance review, and look at other reviews.  Then, taking those as mere suggestions, play the ship.  Numbers and reviews do not correlate well to how you will do in her.

For complaints and suggestions we maintain an open Discord server.  https://discord.gg/Dnu2SThX

 

I believe tomorrow night is Meet the Minions Night.  Or maybe not.

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by iDuckman
Ninja'd

[Wolfswetpaws]

46 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Without a way to determine and illustrate the arcs (without spending the hours and hours that LWM does) this is a non-starter.  Repeat after me, "650 ships."

@Justin_Simpleton Re: data unit inconsistencies.  IMO Nevermore has answered you well. I admit that the data sidebar on wiki ship pages needs improvement, but currently we have no control over it.  E.g. in the AAA block the only valid data is the AA gun types and counts.  (Thus the warning in the Performance section.)  There is ongoing work to improve that, but it's going to take a while.

Personally, I find the 180' turn time for turrets easier to deal with than '/sec.

Blaming the wiki for your inability to absorb data is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?  This game is much more difficult than it appears on the surface.  Don't make it worse by trying to memorize numbers.  Just get a feel for how the ship performs in battle.  Read the Performance review, and look at other reviews.  Then, taking those as mere suggestions, play the ship.  Numbers and reviews do not correlate well to how you will do in her.

For complaints and suggestions we maintain an open Discord server.  https://discord.gg/Dnu2SThX

 

I believe tomorrow night is Meet the Minions Night.  Or maybe not.

 

Fair enough (Discord is where you work and this is your "free time")  I won't do that again.  🙂

That said.  This took me about 5 minutes.  🙂
  
 

[Justin_Simpleton]

1 hour ago, iDuckman said:

Repeat after me, "650 ships."

 

1 hour ago, iDuckman said:

Just get a feel for how the ship performs in battle.  Read the Performance review, and look at other reviews. 

I can see how you would think I'm complaining but I was trying to illustrate how difficult it is to not be a potato.  Then I went on a short rant.  The wiki has been improved greatly over the past four years and I don't mean to disparage anyone's efforts. You guys are doing a great job.  If my points are valid then consider them and ignore my nonsense.

 

1 hour ago, iDuckman said:

Blaming the wiki for your inability to absorb data is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? 

Personally, I observe and take note of those things which hinder my ability to absorb data.  Following that, I make changes as I can, when I can, and how I can.  I talk about things to share my experiences that are different from the norm in case anyone is interested.

[iDuckman]

5 hours ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

 

I can see how you would think I'm complaining but I was trying to illustrate how difficult it is to not be a potato.  Then I went on a short rant.  The wiki has been improved greatly over the past four years and I don't mean to disparage anyone's efforts. You guys are doing a great job.  If my points are valid then consider them and ignore my nonsense.

 

Personally, I observe and take note of those things which hinder my ability to absorb data.  Following that, I make changes as I can, when I can, and how I can.  I talk about things to share my experiences that are different from the norm in case anyone is interested.

Fair enough.  However, I find that knowing your ship and knowing the opposition are not the hardest parts of this game.  The hardest is being able to evaluate a battlefield and position and act accordingly.  That's not really something that can be written down. 

I recommend listening to expert commentary, perhaps bringing replays of battles that perplex you.  Zath's Replay Theater on Twitch was established to do just that.  Zath will also play with you for live commentary.  Check it out.

 

[iDuckman]

6 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

That said.  This took me about 5 minutes.  🙂

Want a job? 

 

[Lord_Zath]

ya send me replays :D.

Reminds me I need to get my signature figured out.

twitch.tv/lord_zath