It has gotten way too easy to get to tier 10

[Wulf_Ace]

1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Perhaps WG should make the game begin at tier 10 then, and let players work their way to tier 1 at their leisure?

Well it's a just a thought...

well isnt that now in the game.

you can buy tier 10 arp yamato even with new account...

[Frostbow]

1 minute ago, Wulf_Ace said:

1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Perhaps WG should make the game begin at tier 10 then, and let players work their way to tier 1 at their leisure?

Well it's a just a thought...

well isnt that now in the game.

you can buy tier 10 arp yamato even with new account...

Or they can buy a Lushun even if they do not have any prior PVP battles. I sunk one while he was on his 3rd battle with the dockyard ship. I checked his stats after the game ended, and I was surprised to see it was only his 3rd Random Battle—and all 3 games were with his new Lushun. Such a capable destroyer, only to be commanded by one who lacked prior experience.

I've seen this particular behavior many times in the past. A new ship is introduced, a new player buys it, and then immediately goes to a PVP match with it without any real idea how to play his new ship.

The result: a defeat. The solution from WG: Go to Armory! 

Rinse and repeat.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

24 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

well isnt that now in the game.

you can buy tier 10 arp yamato even with new account...

 

4 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

Or they can buy a Lushun even if they do not have any prior PVP battles. I sunk one while he was on his 3rd battle with the dockyard ship. I checked his stats after the game ended, and I was surprised to see it was only his 3rd Random Battle—and all 3 games were with his new Lushun. Such a capable destroyer, only to be commanded by one who lacked prior experience.

I've seen this particular behavior many times in the past. A new ship is introduced, a new player buys it, and then immediately goes to a PVP match with it without any real idea how to play his new ship.

The result: a defeat. The solution from WG: Go to Armory! 

Rinse and repeat.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Well in that case WoWS has fully devolved from a thinking man's game into a rich man's game....

[Frostbow]

4 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Well in that case WoWS has fully devolved from a thinking man's game into a rich man's game....

Correct.

[Wulf_Ace]

32 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

Or they can buy a Lushun even if they do not have any prior PVP battles. I sunk one while he was on his 3rd battle with the dockyard ship. I checked his stats after the game ended, and I was surprised to see it was only his 3rd Random Battle—and all 3 games were with his new Lushun. Such a capable destroyer, only to be commanded by one who lacked prior experience.

I've seen this particular behavior many times in the past. A new ship is introduced, a new player buys it, and then immediately goes to a PVP match with it without any real idea how to play his new ship.

The result: a defeat. The solution from WG: Go to Armory! 

Rinse and repeat.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

WG won since they made money.

[pew_pew_magoo]

On 9/8/2023 at 3:01 PM, Zaydin said:

Too many people who have no idea what they are doing are just rushing to tier 10 and end up being massive liabilities to their team. Combine that with a non-functional matchmaker and blowouts are getting more and more common.

When I started playing in CBT and the transition to Open Beta and then Live, it took me two years to get my first tier 10. Now you can slam a line out to tier 10 in a week or two, maybe less, and thus they don't learn how to play their ships or how to play at high tiers.

As a new player with under 500 games I got my first line to t10 by skipping several tiers with free Xp. I do fine. I see players with thousands of battles in t10 playing very dumb. I don’t think this a tier issue as much as it’s a player issue. Once you figure out how a lines plays, it’s pretty much the same from t5 to t10. Players like you OP should just worry about your own play and stop trying to gate keep. 

[Pugilistic]

WG's desperation for new players means they arent going to frustrate their desire for endpoint content, among other things. 

[SunkCostFallacy]

On the subject of training:

Much as I like to put the boot into WG from time to time ... unusually for me, I'm going to have to defend them (a little bit). WG are in a difficult situation when it comes to providing training for WoWS, because the game is fairly unique.

I'm going to hypothesise an 'average new player'. Let's say that he's an adult, has been playing computer games since his teens, has a life besides computer games (i.e. work, other hobbies, etc), has some disposable income that might be spent in-game if he so chooses.

Now consider our new player's gaming history. It's almost inconceivable that he hasn't played at least one First Person Shooter. Given how popular FPS games are ... he's probably played several over the years. It's very likely that he's played at least one MMORPG, probably a few. It's very likely that he's played one or more: Racing games, Management games (e.g. farming or truck simulation games), Survival games (e.g. Ark, Rust). I won't go on, as I'm sure you get the idea ... our player has a varied gaming history in several genres.

So when our hypothetical player starts playing a new game, depending on the type of game it is, he's probably already well versed in the majority of the mechanics that game uses. Because let's be honest ... while there is variation from game to game, on the whole they are generally going to be using well established mechanics that our player has encountered before. It's entirely possible that the player could pay little attention to any training offered him, and manage to do reasonably well because of his prior experience.

Now consider World of Warships. It uses a number of well established mechanics ... talent trees, customisation of vehicles (which is the same concept as customising your weapon/armor in an MMORPG), leading a target as distinct from aiming directly at your target, a mini map which is very significant to good play ... you get the idea (I hope). But several of those mechanics are ... shall we say 'information dependent'. Things like the captains talents, what the modules actually do, etc.

Now let me reach back into MY gaming past and note that I played World of Warcraft from The Burning Crusade through to Mist of Panderia (which sucked so hard that I dropped the game). During all of that time I played as a Protection Paladin ... i.e. a tank. There was a web site called Maintankadin (which sadly is gone, but for those who are curious it's available on the wayback machine) where hard core players used statistical software (everything from R to MATLAB) to theorycraft the best options available in terms of talents, gear, customisations, you name it. If you wanted to tank anything from a 5 man to a full raid as a paladin you HAD to take advice from Maintankadin (even if it was second hand via some other source) and those theorycrafters.

Let's be clear ... people spent hundreds of hours doing this theorycrafting and the statistical work they did was much more complex and detailed than that done for many PhDs.

Now for the actual point ... I submit that WoWS is, in a number of respects, more like a complex and detailed MMORPG like WOW than it is any other genre. Add WG's not so great in-game documentation and you pretty much HAVE to refer to a wiki (Hi Guys!   ) to find out the details about captains talents, or ship modules, etc.

Yes ... a LONG game in WoWS is faster than a difficult 5 man dungeon in WOW ... but that's irrelevant because at the back of that game are aspects of the game which are no less detailed than those a maintankadin had to confront getting ready to go into Icecrown Citadel (WOW reference if you weren't aware).

Now consider two things:

1. Blizzard was vastly larger than WG and even THEY couldn't document everything enough ... so there were countless blogs and youtube videos on 'how to'.

2. Players have to take some responsibility for finding the 'how to' if they are going to do well in the game.

That's why we have people like Little White Mouse who has written invaluable reviews of ships, and mechanics. That's one of the reasons why the forums were so important (curse you WG! ).

Let's note that if a WOW player went into a raid unprepared and wiped it ... he could expect to be chewed out at the least, or kicked from the raid altogether. But because of the nature of WoWS ... the MM will just put him into another game and the next group will have to deal with his incompetence.

And that is why many players don't necessarily play as well as they could ... because they haven't done the research and found the 'how to' or the WoWS equivalent, and there's no real penalty (aside from sucking) to not having done so.

But at the end of the day ... there are aspects of WoWS that just cannot be taught in-game ... they require doing research of your own. So we can't put ALL the blame on WG.

 

 

That's what I think, anyway.

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by SunkCostFallacy

[Wolfswetpaws]

12 minutes ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

On the subject of training:

Much as I like to put the boot into WG from time to time ... unusually for me, I'm going to have to defend them (a little bit). WG are in a difficult situation when it comes to providing training for WoWS, because the game is fairly unique.

I'm going to hypothesise an 'average new player'. Let's say that he's an adult, has been playing computer games since his teens, has a life besides computer games (i.e. work, other hobbies, etc), has some disposable income that might be spent in-game if he so chooses.

Now consider our new player's gaming history. It's almost inconceivable that he hasn't played at least one First Person Shooter. Given how popular FPS games are ... he's probably played several over the years. It's very likely that he's played at least one MMORPG, probably a few. It's very likely that he's played one or more: Racing games, Management games (e.g. farming or truck simulation games), Survival games (eg Ark, Rust). I won't go on, as I'm sure you get the idea ... our player has a varied gaming history in several genres.

So when our hypothetical player starts playing a new game, depending on the type of game it is, he's probably already well versed in the majority of the mechanics that game uses. Because let's be honest ... while there is variation from game to game, on the whole they are generally going to be using well established mechanics that our player has encountered before. It's entirely possible that the player could pay little attention to any training offered him, and manage to do reasonably well because of his prior experience.

Now consider World of Warships. It uses a number of well established mechanics ... talent trees, customisation of vehicles (which is the same concept as customising your weapon/armor in an MMORPG), leading a target as distinct from aiming directly at your target, a mini map which is very significant to good play ... you get the idea (I hope). But several of those mechanics are ... shall we say 'information dependent'. Things like the captains talents, what the modules actually do, etc.

Now let me reach back into MY gaming past and note that I played World of Warcraft from The Burning Crusade through to Mist of Panderia (which sucked so hard that I dropped the game). During all of that time I played as a Protection Paladin ... i.e. a tank. There was a web site called Maintankadin (which sadly is gone, but for those who are curious it's available on the wayback machine) where hard core players used statistical software (everything from R to MATLAB) to theorycraft the best options available in terms of talents, gear, customisations, you name it. If you wanted to tank anything from a 5 man to a full raid as a paladin you HAD to take advice from Maintankadin (even if it was second hand via some other source) and those theorycrafters.

Let's be clear ... people spent hundreds of hours doing this theorycrafting and the statistical work they did was much more complex and detailed than that done for many PhDs.

Now for the actual point ... I submit that WoWS is, in a number of respects, more like a complex and detailed MMORPG like WOW than it is any other genre. Add WG's not so great in-game documentation and you pretty much HAVE to refer to a wiki (Hi Guys!   ) to find out the details about captains talents, or ship modules, etc.

Yes ... a LONG game in WoWS is faster than a difficult 5 man dungeon in WOW ... but that's irrelevant because at the back of that game are aspects of the game which are no less detailed than those a maintankadin had to confront getting ready to go into Icecrown Citadel (WOW reference if you weren't aware).

Now consider two things:

1. Blizzard was vastly larger than WG and even THEY couldn't document everything enough ... so there were countless blogs and youtube videos on 'how to'.

2. Players have to take some responsibility for finding the 'how to' if they are going to do well in the game.

That's why we have people like Little White Mouse who has written invaluable reviews of ships, and mechanics. That's one of the reasons why the forums were so important (curse you WG! ).

Let's note that if a WOW player went into a raid unprepared and wiped it ... he could expect to be chewed out at the least, or kicked from the raid altogether. But because of the nature of WoWS ... the MM will just put him into another game and the next group will have to deal with his incompetence.

And that is why many players don't necessarily play as well as they could ... because they haven't done the research and found the 'how to' or the WoWS equivalent, and there's no real penalty (aside from sucking) to not having done so.

But at the end of the day ... there are aspects of WoWS that just cannot be taught in-game ... they require doing research of your own. So we can't put ALL the blame on WG.

 

 

That's what I think, anyway.

 

Combine all of what you wrote with the fact that the game (World of Warships) is changing substantially on a periodic basis.
New (temporary or experimental) game mechanics.  New ships, some of which are equipped with new "gimmicks".
New maps (once in a while, but they do happen).
Rules changes (friendly fire was a serious concern, until WOWs changed the rules and team-damage was no longer going to sink a team-mate).

All of that said, players can also look to historic tactics from real naval warfare and attempt to adapt them for use in-game.
~Sailing in "line of battle" and "crossing the T" has been morphed into "focused fire".
~Flanking maneuvers?  Well they're still a valid principle.
~Swarming a ship with multiple squadrons of planes (from two or more directions simultaneously)?  That was a bit easier with RTS CVs, but can still be done with teamwork and the proper matchmaking conditions.
~Playing a game of "paintball"?  Well, in my opinion, World of Warships is often like a game of paintball, with how some try to island-camp and shoot & scoot from one island to another.
~And Air-strike-depth-charges are similar to "throwing a grenade" in some first-person-shooter games.
~Capture the Flag becomes Capture an Area or an opposing team's base, as battle victory condition.
~And etc. & etc.  I'm sure people can connect the dots for themselves.  🙂 
 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

7 hours ago, Frostbow said:

because the new player is left to his own. 

Really? 

WG puts out a metric shipton of "how it works" videos.

Players over the years have put out a metric gigaton MORE videos, all explaining this.

The information is there to be looked for.

Y'know how I came into this game to begin with? Watching Jingles vids, among others. Watching experienced players describe how to play the game. 

For MONTHS before I downloaded it.

Then watching more stuff on how to play ships as I worked up to them. Submitting replays to @Lord_Zath. 

And not spending any money for the first NINE MONTHS that I played this game. Hell, if I'd come into the game a year or two later than I did, I might not have even bothered to open the wallet because the number of free premiums has just exploded over the years. 

I played a fair bit of Randoms before I switched to being a co-op main, and I don't exclusively play co-op even now.

7 hours ago, Frostbow said:

the glaring lack of creativity and honest effort on the part of some players to educate themselves on how to play the game optimally.

Fixed it for you. 

Oh, and while you're busy asking WG to make it harder to get to Tier 10, I hope you give some thought to how getting your wish granted would affect people's ability to regrind lines for the Research Bureau, or experienced players' ability to start up a second account in a different region. You might find a brake on grind progress would have them rather upset. 

Or is this just about keeping newer players out so you don't have to suffer their inexperience? 

[majmac]

23 hours ago, Frostbow said:

There are currently two events that offer Tier X ships that make this situation more pronounced: the Dockyard for the Lushun, and the ARP Yamato

Had ha PvP game yesterday with two ARP Yamatos in it. I asked if they had played much at top tier. No reply. Both ships sat on the back line trying to snipe. Both ships were not fully fitted out. We effectively played with only ten ships!

We lost and those two ships were the only surviving ones on our team. Both came bottom in XP.

[Wolfswetpaws]

37 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

WG puts out a metric shipton of "how it works" videos.

True.  
Yet, some of them become "dated" or obsolete after changes are introduced into the game.

It may take years, and the "principles may still apply".
But, eventually, changes delineated in the dev-blogs, patch notes and official WOWs news articles have rendered many of the WOWs youtube videos (and by extension, many content-creator videos) obsolete.
Which, I imagine, is why WOWs has been creating some replacement videos here & there.  
Also official tutorial videos have been put-up on youtube, too.

Whether or not WOWs educational resources are able to keep-up with the pace of the changes in their own game remains a bit of a horserace, though.  🙂 

[SunkCostFallacy]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Whether or not WOWs educational resources are able to keep-up with the pace of the changes in their own game remains a bit of a horserace, though.

As you noted ... the game is changing constantly.

Frankly there are times when I think the rate of change is beyond WG's ability to handle realistically in terms of development. So many of the changes they make seem to be accompanied by an 'unintended consequence' 

I'm absolutely sure that the rate of change is beyond their ability to provide educational material for the players which is always up to date. But then again, the same applies to pretty much every game publisher who is actively developing a game.

 

[pew_pew_magoo]

2 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

 

Or is this just about keeping newer players out so you don't have to suffer their inexperience? 

Well said reply. I watched some videos here and there on YouTube and became Intrested in the game because I’m a naval history buff. The game looked fun. Then I found out a friend at work plays and decided to give it a whirl a couple of years ago. I didn’t get far because of life. Now I’m back and loving this. I almost have 500 games played and think the learning curve is very easy. I just don’t get the OPs gripe? Some of you complaining about player not knowing how to play at high tiers aren’t very good at high tiers yourselves. I’m not trying to stat shame at all, just think it’s kinda funny like the kettle calling the cauldron black. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by pew_pew_magoo

[Yedwy]

15 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Perhaps WG should make the game begin at tier 10 then, and let players work their way to tier 1 at their leisure?

Well it's a just a thought...

Nope couldn sell the “MM solution” in that case… Besides T10 is history, real P2W whales now play only superships

[Ocsimano18]

I have around 8000 random battles with 53% WR and generally occupy the top positions of the scoreboard. I know what I’m doing. This is not the case in World of Tanks where I have about 1000 random battles, I only play in the holiday season when there are big bonuses and easy advancement. I derp around in my German T9 heavy, without having much knowledge about the mechanics. I don’t know what positions to take, I don’t know how to duel properly, sometimes I just snipe from distance to avoid getting killed early. I want to get my T10 ASAP, the easy way, as I hate playing bottom tier. I also got an outdated T8 premium that I have no idea how to play properly. That is I completly understand the perspective of warship players doing the same. The whole system pushes you towards T10, while having a too complex mechanics to understand for non hardcore players. You wonder who plays CVs and submarines regularly? Exactly these noobish low skilled players. WG offers them a quick path into high tier matches not requiring much knowledge of the mechanics. They don’t care if they have low battle impact or WR. They don’t get killed early and can score a few hits for some shallow enertainment. WG can make a good money on them as these guys who do not get churned after a few matches are suspecitble to buy high tier premiums as a substitute for skills and slow progression.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Ocsimano18

[I_cant_Swim_]

4 hours ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

Some of you complaining about player not knowing how to play at high tiers aren’t very good at high tiers yourselves. I’m not trying to stat shame at all, just think it’s kinda funny like the kettle calling the cauldron black

In essence, no matter what WE want exactly, this game is going to remain a mixed bag of skills and intentions. If someone thinks getting better before moving up in tiers is important, as is playing in divs, and promotes this view, that's fine. If others think this is a game to play as they like, rushing to tier X and into randoms, well. I might not like it personally and I might support fair means to promote my own view, but its fine. As long as we accept and respect each others views, we needn't get too riled up and antagonistic.

[tocqueville8]

15 hours ago, Zaydin said:

People getting to tier 10 quickly wouldn't be an issue if WG bothered explaining a lot of mechanics in game that could help people play better; things like Overmatch, fuse timers, penetration, angling etc.

That angling works should be pretty evident to anyone after a few dozen games, just by looking at how easier it is to damage broadside targets with AP. There are also the detailed ribbons.

Overmatch is important, but one could simply figure that shooting AP at angled ship X works and at angled ship Y doesn't, and switch to HE accordingly. And bad players aren't bad because they don't know about overmatch, or fuse timers: they're bad because they yolo at the start or always camp at the back, or because they never move their CV and always fly into flak, that sort of things...

Edited September 10, 2023 by tocqueville8

[Efros]

I frequently come across atrocious players who seem to have got to T10 in a hundred or so games. What makes it worse is that they are atrocious in COOP.

[Frostbow]

6 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Really? 

Really. 

Now there’s a lot to unpack, so let me explain it to you.

First, the perspective that I have is not from a player’s point of view alone. What I have been trying to say is this: Wargaming is missing a lot when it comes to training new players (and by new, I mean players who literally are playing their very first game).

• Is there an in-game training mission in World of Warships that teaches a new player how to angle his ship? No.
• Is there an in-game training mission in World of Warships that trains a new player how to play proper manage his consumables? No.
• Is there an in-game training mission in World of Warships that instructs a new player how about how to manage his concealment? No.
• Is there an in-game training mission in World of Warships that teaches a new player how Capture Points work? No.
• Is there an in-game training mission in World of Warships that trains a new player how to aim properly? No.
• Is there an in-game training mission in World of Warships that teaches a new player how to use the mini map? No.

You can argue that the videos made by players explaining the finer details can help Wargaming teach new players, but that is totally not the point here. 

The onus is on Wargaming to provide more creative training missions for new players. Yes, a new player can watch YouTube videos about the game, but the 'training' would be by chance, and not by design. And if they do get to watch it, there is no way to measure how much they were able to bring what they watched on YouTube to actual in-game performance.

Second, and more importantly, other games offer an infinitely better onboarding experience. Take for example Heroes over Europe, a World War 2-themed fighter plane arcade game. The developers of that game successfully made a training mission that combined training the new player on the basics, as well as giving the same new player a more challenging sub mission that allows him to apply what he has learned. The mission and the training pointers give one the feel and initial exposure needed to sustain him in the future battles that he will face. There is even banter, conversation and a story/theme that blends together some historical aspects of that period, making it a truly immersive new player experience.

Another example is Call of Duty, particularly the F.N.G. mission in CoD 4. Again, it literally trains a new player on the basic and finer points of the game, while providing him a mission with a hard enough challenge that tests his skills in a setting that he can practice on, multiple times.

So what do we have in World of Warships? Do we have a similar in-game training combat mission that interactively teaches new players how to properly play?

There is NONE.

All a new player would hear are words like: "To unlock the next level, play 2 battles." 

 

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

The information is there to be looked for.

"To be looked for" is not the same as the game itself presenting the new player the information that he needs to know. 

 

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Y'know how I came into this game to begin with? Watching Jingles vids, among others. Watching experienced players describe how to play the game. 

For MONTHS before I downloaded it.

That is your own personal experience with the game, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, your own experience definitely cannot be said for others.

Moreover, watching Jingle's videos and expecting a literal new player to improve leaves a lot to be desired. That approach is utterly defective because there is no guarantee watching a video can help improve a new player's skills the same way an interactive in-game training mission can.

 

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Then watching more stuff on how to play ships as I worked up to them. Submitting replays to @Lord_Zath.

Is there an in-game training instruction about how to view replays? Please tell.

Again, watching more stuff and expecting improvement in a new player leaves a lot to be desired. 

And kudos to Zath. He saw a need that Wargaming has refused to pay more attention to.

 

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

And not spending any money for the first NINE MONTHS that I played this game. Hell, if I'd come into the game a year or two later than I did, I might not have even bothered to open the wallet because the number of free premiums has just exploded over the years. 

The topic here is about in-game training and development of new players, and the possible ways that Wargaming has clearly been missing out on.

This is not about spending money. Neither it is about the number of free premiums Wargaming has released. Both points you raised are impertinent.

 

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Fixed it for you.

No you did not. In fact, I have to reply just to clarify the misunderstanding that I've been seeing in your posts.

 

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Oh, and while you're busy asking WG to make it harder to get to Tier 10, I hope you give some thought to how getting your wish granted would affect people's ability to regrind lines for the Research Bureau

Again, another misunderstanding.

The Research Bureau provides a way for highly accomplished players to earn ships otherwise unobtainable, and have some fun doing it. Any player with five unlocked tech tree Tier X ships is fully qualified.

The in-game training mission that I have been articulating here since yesterday is focused on literal new players that has not yet played any World of Warships battle in their entire lives. Moreover, the in-game training mission I have been articulating is one that can be implemented in a way that it is interactive and fun, similar to how other developers do it in their respective games. 

 

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

experienced players' ability to start up a second account in a different region. You might find a brake on grind progress would have them rather upset. 

The in-game training mission can be implemented in the first few battles for each and every new account, without adding to the number of missions required to unlock levels. Are you saying experienced players will get upset when they have to finish the same number of new player missions in their new accounts? What's your basis? Why would they be upset when the number of battles required to level up their new accounts remain the same?

 

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Or is this just about keeping newer players out so you don't have to suffer their inexperience? 

Again, another gross misunderstanding on your part. 

This is about training new players in-game, via training missions in the first games/battles, so that they will continuously develop their skills and competencies as they climb up the tiers.

This is not about gatekeeping. 

This is not about keeping new players out.

This is about how World of Warships can train and develop new players so that they will have the confidence and competence as they progress their way up in the game.

[pew_pew_magoo]

2 hours ago, Frostbow said:

This is about how World of Warships can train and develop new players so that they will have the confidence and competence as they progress their way up in the game.

That’s why you have to spend the first few levels in co-op facing only bots.  That’s effective to show a new player the basics. It’s not a training issue. It’s a player issue. Some players will still do dumb things no matter how mAny games they have. You guys are coming off like your unicum level players trying snub your nose at other players who you think shouldn’t be at T10. You aren’t unicum. Very few players are and they ones who do want to share their expertise do make videos and guides. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

8 hours ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

I'm absolutely sure that the rate of change is beyond their ability to provide educational material for the players which is always up to date. But then again, the same applies to pretty much every game publisher who is actively developing a game.

 

I don't have too many games to compare WOWs to (in the past 5 years).  
Prior to playing World of Warships, most of my gaming experience involved games that were released on 5.25-inch or 3.5-inch diskettes, or on CD-ROM disks.
Such games may get a few "patches" downloaded via a website, but don't have the quantity of updates that WOWs has gone through.
Partly because the new & improved versions of such games are released and the older versions are no longer supported or developed.

The only game I can compare WOWs to is Star Trek Online.
And I haven't noticed a lack of educational material for Star Trek Online.
I get the impression there are more fans, and thus more volunteers for, the Star Trek franchise as a whole.  So perhaps they're keeping-up with the educational requirements by having more personnel and labor-hours available to maintain and update their wiki-pages?  It could just be my impression, though.

There are other games which could be compared to WOWs, I feel.  But I don't have direct experience with them, yet.  So it's nice to have another players perspectives.
 

[Frostbow]

14 minutes ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

That’s why you have to spend the first few levels in co-op facing only bots.

That is true, especially if it is a new player. 

 

15 minutes ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

That’s effective to show a new player the basics.

Not necessarily. In fact, unguided play in Co-op (which is the norm, given how dumb the bots are) does not provide the proper training (and mindset) to a new player, and can be detrimental to the proper development of player skill.

 

18 minutes ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

It’s not a training issue.

On the contrary, it is a training issue.

Because the new players are not properly trained in-game, they could be doing something wrong and that something wrong could be consistently reinforced as they face straight-sailing bots in Co-op. And when they jump to the highest tiers with little to zero knowledge of how to properly play, they predispose their teams to fast defeats, aside from not giving themselves the Victory they might have expected to happen with their new premium ship.

 

22 minutes ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

It’s a player issue. Some players will still do dumb things no matter how mAny games they have.

Yes, in that case it is definitely a player issue. I've seen a player with around 5,000 random battles who was live streaming on Twitch, waste his position and his healthy still Fletcher by deliberately moving forward to where a Hindenburg, a Vermont, and 2 other enemy ships were located. Then the same player commented live on his Twitch stream that his teammates were to blame because "they did not want to fight."

However, it is entirely different when it is a new player who is not properly guided in-game. 

 

26 minutes ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

You guys are coming off like your unicum level players trying snub your nose at other players who you think shouldn’t be at T10. 

That is another gross misunderstanding that I've been seeing in this thread. Calling for a proper in-game training mission in World of Warships for new players to finish (without increasing the required number of battles to level up) is definitely not preventing players to play at Tier X.

 

50 minutes ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

You aren’t unicum.

I never claimed that I am. 

What I do is sometimes I play World of Warships and post some videos of it on my YouTube. 

[SunkCostFallacy]

10 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I don't have too many games to compare WOWs to (in the past 5 years).  
Prior to playing World of Warships, most of my gaming experience involved games that were released on 5.25-inch or 3.5-inch diskettes, or on CD-ROM disks.
Such games may get a few "patches" downloaded via a website, but don't have the quantity of updates that WOWs has gone through.
Partly because the new & improved versions of such games are released and the older versions are no longer supported or developed.

The only game I can compare WOWs to is Star Trek Online.
And I haven't noticed a lack of educational material for Star Trek Online.
I get the impression there are more fans, and thus more volunteers for, the Star Trek franchise as a whole.  So perhaps they're keeping-up with the educational requirements by having more personnel and labor-hours available to maintain and update their wiki-pages?  It could just be my impression, though.

There are other games which could be compared to WOWs, I feel.  But I don't have direct experience with them, yet.  So it's nice to have another players perspectives.
 

 

Currently the only online game I'm playing is WoWS, so I have little to compare to.

But my wife still plays WOW. She's playing classic as well as the current retail version (i.e. the latest patch). She often complains about changes that have been made in-game but which have been insufficiently documented/explained. The number of blogs and WOW specific web sites which exist to expand on the information available in-game and via patch notes is a pretty good indication that there is a need for information over and above what Activision Blizzard provide.

Indeed the number of fan-created and maintained wikis for other games is pretty significant as well.

And of course there's reddit ... where there are a LOT of subs dedicated to specific games.

A good example is EVE Online. When I was considering trying it out I found that there is an 'organisation' called EVE University. Here's a bit from their web page:

Quote

EVE University is a corporation in EVE Online and a member of the Ivy League Alliance. We are a neutral, non-profit training corporation in New Eden. Founded in March of 2004 by Morning Maniac, EVE University has taught over 25,000 pilots and continues to take new pilots and train them in all aspects of EVE Online.

I believe, although I may be wrong, that EVE University is entirely player driven and maintained. All of the 'officers' in the University are players from what I can tell.

I suspect that many games developers/publishers find it more profitable to focus on developing and marketing their games than they do documenting them and providing detailed education resources.

[WES_HoundDog]

I have to disagree.    

Just started up the german bc line and free xed to mackensin.     Played 10 battles like a boss.  Only 3 losses and i'm only at 16kxp  of the 80k exp i need for the next ship.  Thats with free xping the upgraded range.   This feel like a grind and a half and i'm only at tier 6.

Edited September 11, 2023 by WES_HoundDog