Asym Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 25 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: It is your opinion and you're entitled to it. 🙂 Personally, I feel that DD/Cruiser/BB games are limited and "two dimensional" and can become very boring. 😴 One might as well play an "Age of Sail" game without the ability to perform boarding-actions. Oh ! Now we are talking about "dimensional" operating conditions.... Unfortunately, submarines are a gimmick. And, as a "gimmick intended to have whales and exploiters" spend money on, NOW........we are seeing something "else...." ? A new way to slow down OPTEMPO? Why? Playing against subs is "against the Vision Statement" of this game as I saw it before I joined.... Carriers were always here. Subs, were the boogyman no one wanted and they fielded them to simply: make money no matter what happens to the game. And, sub implementation broke the game engine; eliminated team damage which made the game a more mature product IMO; and, to this day, the "elite competitive players simply refuse to play with Subs in their mode...." Why? Because, "dissimilar weapons systems" (carriers and subs) literally can "influence and change the entire game's 'flow'" just by being there and that, ruins all sorts of exploits the KOTS crowd relies on.....!!!! Spotting is doctrinally the key to winning.... There's no Air-to-Air combat and that means: unlimited spotting and with subs, a counter to organized rushes or divisional movement..... Subs have "automated targeting..." and that alone, increases the chance counter offensive movement fails because they have to slow down to avoid targeting sonar pulses and tracking torpedoes..... Even, if we all know how to avoid them - they eat time and initiative... And, that is the death of a movement to contact...... So, till we have a solid ASW process and a solid Air-to-Air doctrine that controls air superiority; KOTS won't see carriers and subs..... Which begs to ask the question: why do they get to avoid what we all suffer with each and every match they are in>?>? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 16 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: There are plenty of "arcade game" phenomena in World of Warships. 🙂 True ! But, with all games I have ever played: till they supersede the base expectations of the game...! i.e. KOTS can't be KOTS with carriers and subs ! What else is there to say Wolfie? "A house divided can not stand" and here we are: divided. We get all of the marketing and sales crap while our hero's, get the base game we signed up to play ! 17 hours ago, Unlooky said: Yes. The reality is that ASW cannot fit into the flow of battles, as ASW obviously cannot take place while under a Jutland-esque surface action. Here it is: on small maps, there can't be two or three operational priorities.... Too many mind comes to mind ! You can't fight subs in direct contact, inside of the radar zone of influence and facing fast firing heavy DD and light Cruiser direct fire.... It's certain death even to try.............so..........where we are is called anarchy.... A game divided can not function it seems and the KOTS guys have said NO...........or else, it appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 20 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said: 100% agree. Balancing surface ships vs Subs based on said surface ship's interaction with other surface ships is asinine. Subs operate under a completely different set of mechanics and play mostly underwater. Balancing vs them should be its own thing. Gimping some surface ships (GC, MA, JB, OH, etc...) vs Subs because they are strong vs surface ships make zero sense. But this is WG who couldn't balance something with a scale. ASW range should be standard by ship type and tier PERIOD! And, as I have said dozens of time for years: dissimilar weapons can not be used in the same tactical context on small maps. Yes, they make money because Collectors buy "everything" but, at what cost ?? They, our host, is banking on the old game premise: most players will not leave the "real money" investments in games.... AS I have said before, when I visit old games I've left, they are still there.....!!! I hear this every night when we division in OPS and talk about where we, as an old group of gamers whom have been playing together for decades, want to move on to ! Many will not leave what they spent a lot of time and money on ! Even though, they/we know it's time to "move on" and use this game as a Saturday night get together as we have done with other games we left !!! It's hard. And, our Host knows this........... Edited July 27 by Asym 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo_Apollo11 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Hi all, 22 hours ago, Musket22 said: I've posted often as to how silly I find it that this BB (and a few other BBs) have their ASW Air strike castrated to a range of 5km. It just hit me that my Massachusets has secondary range reaching out to 10.8km with the AIR STRIKE range limited to 5km. Oh yes, it's so great in surface and anti-air lets hobble it against the abominations! I asked this long ago on WG WoWs Discord... unfortunately there will be no change... WG officially answered... they simply don't see this as a problem... 😞 Leo "Apollo11" 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Asym said: the "elite competitive players simply refuse to play with Subs in their mode...." Why? Because they're not as "elite" as some claim they are, in my opinion. 😉 Those who claim they're playing a more mui-macho-manly-man game by playing "surface ships only" are mistaken, in my opinion. They're refusing to rise to the added challenge. They're stagnating the game. The "kots" tournaments are boring. I'd not realized there was something more boring to watch (than watching paint drying) until I'd seen a few kots games. Even professional baseball has changed their game rules to make the pace of play become faster and become more entertaining on television. "kots" is playing "checkers" when they could be playing something more like 3-D speed-Chess. Submarines add depth to the game and CV's take it to new heights. 😉 Edited July 27 by Wolfswetpaws 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 21 minutes ago, Asym said: 16 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: There are plenty of "arcade game" phenomena in World of Warships. 🙂 True ! But, with all games I have ever played: till they supersede the base expectations of the game...! i.e. KOTS can't be KOTS with carriers and subs ! What else is there to say Wolfie? "A house divided can not stand" and here we are: divided. We get all of the marketing and sales crap while our hero's, get the base game we signed up to play ! Several years ago, when I was still a new player, WG/WOWs sent me a survey. Among the many answers to their questions, I provided my opinion that a game that lacked Submarines was boring. Apparently, WG/WOWs agreed with me, at least in part. And perhaps I wasn't alone in my opinion. Because, after two to three years, Halloween Submarines were introduced. The various theaters of operations during WW-II were made more complex and challenging because of the various ways military forces could move and encounter each other and destroy or capture each other. Some have opined that WG/WOWs is merely World of Tanks, as far as the programming goes. A few tweaks here & there, maybe. But, both games could also be considred "World of Paintball", given the predominant tactics used. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clammboy Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 I didn't really find the OP post to be a BBbabies whining post. I think he brought up a legit problem for some ships that got left behind and could use a small change nothing ground breaking here. I don't know why as a sub player the idea of adding ASW range to a few gimped ships would bother you so much or all of a sudden make that ship OP. I don't really care either way but I think he has some what of a legit point. We all tend to look at things from our own perspectives but everyone see's thing differently. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolGaming_Youtube Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, WildWind84 said: Honestly - better that I don't start writing... I will just say: Massa was my favourite ship... 😔 So many players LOVE to push in, CQB, brawling playstyle that many ships like Mass and Schleiffen promote. Some of my most intense and fun battles has been in Brawling BBs .... back in the day .... but then WG had to kill off all the fun with BS ASW nerfs, Super CVs, Superships, Hybrids, infinite plane spotting and Subs, to ensure no player in their right mind would ever try and push in ........ in a Brawling BB..... ........... says a lot about WG... How about making "Brawl mode" 10 Vs 10 with no CVs, DDs, Superships, Hybrids or Subs? How many of us wouldn't LOVE to play that game mode?? Edited July 27 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 30 minutes ago, clammboy said: I didn't really find the OP post to be a BBbabies whining post. I think he brought up a legit problem for some ships that got left behind and could use a small change nothing ground breaking here. I don't know why as a sub player the idea of adding ASW range to a few gimped ships would bother you so much or all of a sudden make that ship OP. I don't really care either way but I think he has some what of a legit point. We all tend to look at things from our own perspectives but everyone see's thing differently. Perhaps. At the same time, some people complain about not enough realism or history in-game. For what it is worth, the Massachusetts possible ASW capability would be her paravanes (normally used for mine-sweeping, and might be considered an act of desperation if used as an ASW method). Her guns would be far more efficient, or her hull in a ramming tactic. I visited the Massachusetts a handful of times, at Battleship Cove. https://www.battleshipcove.org/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 27 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said: So many players LOVE to push in, CQB, brawling playstyle that many ships like Mass and Schleiffen promote. Some of my most intense and fun battles has been in Brawling BBs .... back in the day .... but then WG had to kill off all the fun with BS ASW nerfs, Super CVs, Superships, Hybrids, infinite plane spotting and Subs, to ensure no player in their right mind would ever try and push in ........ in a Brawling BB..... ........... says a lot about WG... How about making "Brawl mode" 10 Vs 10 with no CVs, DDs, Superships, Hybrids or Subs? How many of us wouldn't LOVE to play that game mode?? We did have a 12 versus 12 Battleship only brawl mode, a while ago. It quickly became a boring lob-projectiles-from-maximum-range-and-hide-at-the-edges-of-the-map mode. Which, frankly, sucked worse than an Electrolux. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcus_Aesopi Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: For what it is worth, I play all available ship types. The behavior that I become annoyed/disappointed/disgusted with is crying & whining. It's especially unnecessary when, with a bit of effort spent to learn how to play better, one could achieve success. 🙂 That's not really an excuse for annoyance expressed at members (specifically or generally) in the forums. It just makes it unappealing for folks to express their frustrations with a game they obviously like and wish the best for in whatever terms that means for them. Perhaps offering game-play suggestions, which you do well, but without expressing annoyance/disappointment/disgust with folks who are actively participating on the forums is the better tactic if the goal is improving players and increasing forum participation. I also note that players who are demonstrably high skill but who also find fault with the game design and player engagement get a lot of crying and whining on this forum, like Flamu or Potato Quality, for example. (Flamu is a self-described asshole, so he's kind of a special case...) 🙂 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 32 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: We did have a 12 versus 12 Battleship only brawl mode, a while ago. It quickly became a boring lob-projectiles-from-maximum-range-and-hide-at-the-edges-of-the-map mode. Which, frankly, sucked worse than an Electrolux. Wut? The best game mode ever? I saw the Ocean more times during that mode alone than all the years I've been playing WoWS.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolGaming_Youtube Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 3 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: We did have a 12 versus 12 Battleship only brawl mode, a while ago. It quickly became a boring lob-projectiles-from-maximum-range-and-hide-at-the-edges-of-the-map mode. Which, frankly, sucked worse than an Electrolux. How did you manage that in a 12 Vs 12 BRAWL mode?! You only invited Yamato players? 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 3 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said: How did you manage that in a 12 Vs 12 BRAWL mode?! You only invited Yamato players? 😉 It was Tier-6, if I remember correctly. Edit: I found some articles via an internet search. https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/general-news/brawls-0118-2/ https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/340 Edited July 27 by Wolfswetpaws 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArIskandir Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said: How did you manage that in a 12 Vs 12 BRAWL mode?! Ocean map. People wanted Jutland, WG gave them Jutland and oh My, people didn't like it... What a surprise. Edited July 27 by ArIskandir 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 19 minutes ago, ArIskandir said: Ocean map. People wanted Jutland, WG gave them Jutland and oh My, people didn't like it... What a surprise. I liked it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 36 minutes ago, ArIskandir said: Ocean map. People wanted Jutland, WG gave them Jutland and oh My, people didn't like it... What a surprise. 😄 16 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: I liked it! 👍 Katy Perry - I Kissed A Girl (Official Music Video) https://youtu.be/tAp9BKosZXs?si=GHGxamscVCYnTs3T 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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