Best build for Colbert?

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

So I been looking for purchasing a new "Funny" ship with my RB points and am looking at the Colberg (already have all the other good ones), and also trying to educate myself in the playstyle of Colbert and realized that most roads (videos etc) seems to lead to "John the Ruthless" who seems to be quite capable in the Colbert to say the least.

When I was mocking about in the ship builder I came up with this:

But looking at Johns streams on Twitch it seems like he is running a build with a 12,1 km conceal for his ship and I cant really understand what he is running?

 

What are youre guys take on a great Colbert build?

[Beleaf]

That's my exact build. I believe Jon runs a farming build with no conceal and TGG.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

18 minutes ago, Beleaf said:

That's my exact build. I believe Jon runs a farming build with no conceal and TGG.

But does that boost you're concealment range? I just think its a bit odd that an expert on the ship like him wont go for the best conceal so you can reach those great islands at start without getting spotted and Blapped on route.

12.1 km on a such a fragile cruiser seems a bit tryhard.

 

I wonder if hes running rudder or engine as module in the 4:th slot.

Edited July 19 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[HogHammer]

32 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

But looking at Johns streams on Twitch it seems like he is running a build with a 12,1 km conceal for his ship and I cant really understand what he is running?

John's builds are locked in his head and no one will get them.  He just won't divulge his secret sauce on stream.

[I_cant_Swim_]

4 minutes ago, HogHammer said:

John's builds are locked in his head and no one will get them.  He just won't divulge his secret sauce on stream

I doubt many could reach his level even if they had that recipe. The guy is jacked in to the matrix.

[Verytis]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

But looking at Johns streams on Twitch it seems like he is running a build with a 12,1 km conceal for his ship and I cant really understand what he is running?

What are youre guys take on a great Colbert build?

Take my opinion with salt. I don't have Colbert, but I'm familiar with most CL playstyles. In particular, double rudder radar Mino which involves sacrificing some concealment.

The thing about concealment is deciding engagement initiative and disengagement. Who gets to dictate combat conditions, shooting the 1st shot. 2nd part is determine how hard it is to disengage when conditions become unfavourable.

• Concealment matters very little if you don't intend to play any spotting roles.
• Concealment doesn't matter when both sides are actively trading.
• It can also be compensated by cover such as smoke and islands. One of the reasons Russians hug these so much.
• Knowing this, you can take alternative upgrades such as rudder mod 2 which increase actual trading efficiency. Similar to gunboat DDs forgoing CE.

Sacrificing concealment pushes you towards a lighthouse playstyle, where you depend on friendly spotting or gullible opponents who don't know to go dark. In randoms this often works out fine, because you have DDs and CVs who are the spotting specialists. This is a lot worse if you go into small formats like ranked where you can't depend on spotting support.

 

As for your current build, my main issue would be your questionable range.

• It is difficult to open water at such ranges unless your team have a spotting advantage. You struggle to not get spotted before getting into range.
• You can't focus fire priority targets further away. Eg. That BB with his DCP down.
• You depend on the enemy playing into you.

I also just find RPF useful for directing my allies. Something to compensate for limited intelligence data, especially if you lost some concealment.

Edited July 19 by Verytis

[Latouche_Treville]

 Here is my build (for co cop):

 

Edited July 19 by Latouche_Treville

[Itwastuesday]

I run roughly similar build although I think I have RPF on it. 

Range is an issue, utility is another. Still, I have stuck with reload mod as I can't be bothered trying to hit anything with these guns to 16 km nor do I really care about farming kiting battleships anyway. 

Some open water no conceal build probably attempts to fix the nonexistent battle impact by drawing fire from your team. Personally I don't trust that, you're not drawing fire from your destroyers and have absolutely nothing to say to the unicum Smålånd running over your 17k hp Shimakaze.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

7 hours ago, HogHammer said:

John's builds are locked in his head and no one will get them.  He just won't divulge his secret sauce on stream.

Hes like McDonalds and their Big Mac sauce.....

Yeah, some streamers/YT:ers dont seem so keen on talking about their builds but sometimes just by watching their reload, the number of consumables, HP and conceal I can usually figure it out quite well myself. Was just a bit baffles over the long conceal when its possible to get it down to something like 9,8 km.

 

7 hours ago, I_cant_Swim_ said:

I doubt many could reach his level even if they had that recipe. The guy is jacked in to the matrix.

I totally agree. This guy is something extra. So right now im watching his games and streams to try and pick up as much I can, but I dont think I ever get close to his games.

 

5 hours ago, Verytis said:

Take my opinion with salt. I don't have Colbert, but I'm familiar with most CL playstyles. In particular, double rudder radar Mino which involves sacrificing some concealment.

The thing about concealment is deciding engagement initiative and disengagement. Who gets to dictate combat conditions, shooting the 1st shot. 2nd part is determine how hard it is to disengage when conditions become unfavourable.

• Concealment matters very little if you don't intend to play any spotting roles.
• Concealment doesn't matter when both sides are actively trading.
• It can also be compensated by cover such as smoke and islands. One of the reasons Russians hug these so much.
• Knowing this, you can take alternative upgrades such as rudder mod 2 which increase actual trading efficiency. Similar to gunboat DDs forgoing CE.

Sacrificing concealment pushes you towards a lighthouse playstyle, where you depend on friendly spotting or gullible opponents who don't know to go dark. In randoms this often works out fine, because you have DDs and CVs who are the spotting specialists. This is a lot worse if you go into small formats like ranked where you can't depend on spotting support.

I just feel like in a cruiser like Colbert that can explode if even a high caliber cruiser sneezes youre way and who seems to want to get into great central positions at islands due to short gun range, should value concealment very high since it will make difference in getting there unspotted with speed boost or getting spotted by DD on route and having to tap dance for youre life next 30 sec before you reach safety behind the rocks.

Trying to survive while open watering in this thing (even tho John makes it works from time to time) seems a bit suicidal to me since any surprise crossfire when youre focused on a target will delete you.

 

5 hours ago, Verytis said:

As for your current build, my main issue would be your questionable range.

• It is difficult to open water at such ranges unless your team have a spotting advantage. You struggle to not get spotted before getting into range.
• You can't focus fire priority targets further away. Eg. That BB with his DCP down.
• You depend on the enemy playing into you.

I also just find RPF useful for directing my allies. Something to compensate for limited intelligence data, especially if you lost some concealment.

I thought about range as well because at first glance it looks like an impossible thing to get 13 km range to work in todays passive/hiding in the back T10 Meta. I saw that Potato Quality ran range build in his video which gave him something like 16 km but then you had to scroll out 4 clicks on the mouse wheel and try and lead the target at full range for like 20 seconds or something.

I cant see that much of an advantage to invest 4 points into RPF imho. I Use RPF on my torp DDs for survival and controlling engagements with gun boat DDs, I use it on my Vampire II to be able to hunt enemy DDs, I also use it on my Annapolis with its almost stealth radar for the same purpose. But giving up 4 points in a Colbert which you never would want to try and hunt DDs in because several km conceal difference, dont make that much sense to me. Then I would much rather put them into Survivability Exp or Superintendent that helps you stay alive. 

3 hours ago, Latouche_Treville said:

 Here is my build (for co cop):

 

Thats a totally different one. Nothing into Survivability or extra heals? No Demo expert? You also use RPF in this build, how do you use it?

Also, TGG that John seem to use as well. 0,8 sec reload buff on already quick 3 sec reload, gives it ...what? 2.8 second reload instead (my math can be wrong), but only if an enemy ships is detected within you're base concealment, and for the cost of a 2 point something km larger concealment, and for 4 captain points ..... im not really sure about this. Seems to work great for him tho!

31 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

I run roughly similar build although I think I have RPF on it. 

Range is an issue, utility is another. Still, I have stuck with reload mod as I can't be bothered trying to hit anything with these guns to 16 km nor do I really care about farming kiting battleships anyway. 

Some open water no conceal build probably attempts to fix the nonexistent battle impact by drawing fire from your team. Personally I don't trust that, you're not drawing fire from your destroyers and have absolutely nothing to say to the unicum Smålånd running over your 17k hp Shimakaze.

Yeah, im not totally convinced about 16 km range with these floaty arcs as well.

 

What I can tell it seems like John is using Superintendent because he has 5 heals, but im not sure about Surv. Exp because in the video below he has a HP off 40 600 and when I try and build I get either 36 100 without it and 41 100 and he seems to use Phillippe as well?! So go figure. With his dodging and weaving im guessing he uses rudder instead of engine module.

 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

8 hours ago, HogHammer said:

John's builds are locked in his head and no one will get them.  He just won't divulge his secret sauce on stream.

I think I just might found the sauce .....

 

But here he uses range mod for 16 km range, but in most his other streams he seems to have 13 km. He also has blue tracers and im not sure you get those with Honoré, or can you? Honoré gives improved AR while Phillippe gives improved HP (Surv Axp), but I would also like to have Phillippes extra Legendary triggers since it caters quite well to this ship (fire chance etc).

I will definitaly experiment a whole lot with both 13 and 16 km builds to see what works best. Am 10 000 RB points away so I will do the x2 reset in a couple of days and then just Free XP/Grind the fook out of the Haru line.

He seems to get a whole lot of 300-400 K damage games when he plays.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2154280471

Edited July 19 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[Itwastuesday]

RPF lets you (sometimes) know when a triangle is flanking your position. That can be decent. 

Better just copy whatever it is streamerguy does, I certainly don't get 300k games in Colbert. Usually it's more like shoot a battleship, they run away, shoot up a destroyer (in a good game), game over, 60-80k.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

6 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

RPF lets you (sometimes) know when a triangle is flanking your position. That can be decent. 

Better just copy whatever it is streamerguy does, I certainly don't get 300k games in Colbert. Usually it's more like shoot a battleship, they run away, shoot up a destroyer (in a good game), game over, 60-80k.

I mean ... I LOVE RPF! Dont know how many kills I bagged with just RPF and miinimap alone and how many games I survived in torp DDs by avoiding Gun DDs, but it is a very costly skill and in this case I feel its lacking "Bang for Buck".

But I wish I could take it on all my ships.

 

Looking at MaleseKnight´s video  im more and more convinced I will be running range mod for 16 km range instead of reload. I just feel in this campy Meta being limited to 13 km range will pretty  much put you out of the game in most battles.

[HogHammer]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I mean ... I LOVE RPF! Dont know how many kills I bagged with just RPF

First, I hate that RPF is a 4-point skill. That said, it is a must-have on DDs in a competitive environment.  I have, just as a skill in any game format, been using it more and more lately.  I have also been using it much more in light cruisers.  

 

[Verytis]

9 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I just feel like in a cruiser like Colbert that can explode if even a high caliber cruiser sneezes youre way and who seems to want to get into great central positions at islands due to short gun range, should value concealment very high since it will make difference in getting there unspotted with speed boost or getting spotted by DD on route and having to tap dance for youre life next 30 sec before you reach safety behind the rocks.

Trying to survive while open watering in this thing (even tho John makes it works from time to time) seems a bit suicidal to me since any surprise crossfire when youre focused on a target will delete you.

Concealment exists to help prevent you from getting surprised. But even then, you're not getting anywhere close enough to spot most DDs with full concealment. It exists more to protect you against other cruisers than DD spotting.

If you're getting spotted first, then you're in the spotting line. Either you're overextending, or your DD is too far back.

 

Open water is dangerous, but not suicidal by any means. No one is asking you to do it under crossfire. If you're play along the flanks the problem tends to be minimal.

And I highly recommend dropping that mentality, because I kite Ohios to death in a Mino for practice. And I'd argue Colbert has easier time doing this because it has HE and better armour.

10 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I thought about range as well because at first glance it looks like an impossible thing to get 13 km range to work in todays passive/hiding in the back T10 Meta. I saw that Potato Quality ran range build in his video which gave him something like 16 km but then you had to scroll out 4 clicks on the mouse wheel and try and lead the target at full range for like 20 seconds or something.

I cant see that much of an advantage to invest 4 points into RPF imho. I Use RPF on my torp DDs for survival and controlling engagements with gun boat DDs, I use it on my Vampire II to be able to hunt enemy DDs, I also use it on my Annapolis with its almost stealth radar for the same purpose. But giving up 4 points in a Colbert which you never would want to try and hunt DDs in because several km conceal difference, dont make that much sense to me. Then I would much rather put them into Survivability Exp or Superintendent that helps you stay alive. 

The flight times are almost identical to Minotaur and Worcester. Max flight time is around 13-14 seconds and it is nothing new.

And I'll just pretend this is an exaggeration, but if PQ actually scrolled out 4 clicks, then he doesn't know what he's doing.  Even French DDs don't need this amount of lead.

 

And you're using RPF to direct your allies. To sic a DD or CV or another radar on them. Also helps identifying other CLs sneaking around. But yes, do keep survivability skills, however trading DPM skills is fair game.

No, Annapolis is not stealth radar. in fact there is a 1km gap.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

On 7/19/2024 at 8:43 PM, HogHammer said:

First, I hate that RPF is a 4-point skill. That said, it is a must-have on DDs in a competitive environment.  I have, just as a skill in any game format, been using it more and more lately.  I have also been using it much more in light cruisers.  

 

I agree, its way too costly. I never play comp so I just spend the points on my torp boats, Vampire and Annapolis. Dont play som many lights these days, seem like Wooster is a bit obsolete, but I will definitely take RPF if the upcoming Supership Jacksonville is any good.

On 7/19/2024 at 10:06 PM, Verytis said:

No, Annapolis is not stealth radar. in fact there is a 1km gap.

I said "Almost stealth radar" and that 1 km gap means Annapolis is pushing the pushing spotting DD head to head with RPF, when DD spots Annapolis he will probably just have time to react and maybe even start to turn, but then hes lit by Annapolis radar which is ready for him since he was hunting him and then the DD has to do a very sluggish and awkward "gamer turn" in front of a Annapolis with a veeeery angry Funny button.

I managed to kill 3 out of 4 enemy DDs in one game with RPF Annapolis. That skill, that ship, that radar and that Funny button is borderline broken.

[Verytis]

11 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I said "Almost stealth radar" and that 1 km gap means Annapolis is pushing the pushing spotting DD head to head with RPF, when DD spots Annapolis he will probably just have time to react and maybe even start to turn, but then hes lit by Annapolis radar which is ready for him since he was hunting him and then the DD has to do a very sluggish and awkward "gamer turn" in front of a Annapolis with a veeeery angry Funny button.

I managed to kill 3 out of 4 enemy DDs in one game with RPF Annapolis. That skill, that ship, that radar and that Funny button is borderline broken.

Allow me to clarify: a 1km spotting gap is a LOT for a DD. It is nowhere near the guaranteed spotting offered by stealth radar.

• Consider trying to hunt down a competent Shimakaze with a F Sherman in open water. Even if you dive head first, you're half dependent on the opponent being caught out to actually spot him. And they'll certainly have their stern facing you before your shells hit.

Most DD vs DD interactions involve much smaller gaps and require faster responses. If they can't notice a potential threat with 1km advanced warning, they're not ready for DDs. What's broken is them and the ship itself belongs to an entirely different discussion.

Edited July 21 by Verytis

[tocqueville8]

On 7/19/2024 at 2:45 AM, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

What are youre guys take on a great Colbert build?

Mine usual one is like the one you posted, except:

• hydro, not Def AA
• Rudder Module, not Concealment Systems
• TGG instead of SI and the consumable reload skill: maximize your impact when you set up a good fight, rather than allowing for a 5th heal you might never use
• PT instead of DE, though it's a matter of preference. Auboyneau will get that +1% fire chance more than a few times.

An alternative is to also swap CE for DE+consumable duration, or RPF.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

Boom ChackaLacka! ! ! !

Finally got it! Time to start some fires...

Went with this build

[clammboy]

On 7/18/2024 at 9:02 PM, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

But does that boost you're concealment range? I just think its a bit odd that an expert on the ship like him wont go for the best conceal so you can reach those great islands at start without getting spotted and Blapped on route.

12.1 km on a such a fragile cruiser seems a bit tryhard.

 

I wonder if hes running rudder or engine as module in the 4:th slot.

Doesn't he play with his brother or clanmates a lot in DD's who smoke and spot for him the whole game 

[BOBTHEBALL]

On 7/19/2024 at 12:45 PM, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

So I been looking for purchasing a new "Funny" ship with my RB points and am looking at the Colberg (already have all the other good ones), and also trying to educate myself in the playstyle of Colbert and realized that most roads (videos etc) seems to lead to "John the Ruthless" who seems to be quite capable in the Colbert to say the least.

When I was mocking about in the ship builder I came up with this:

But looking at Johns streams on Twitch it seems like he is running a build with a 12,1 km conceal for his ship and I cant really understand what he is running?

 

What are youre guys take on a great Colbert build?

This is my current build, I am using a captain that only has 17p so I don't have consumables enhancement and survivability expert. However it gives the best balance between survivability (more hp, longer speed boost duration and concealment) and firepower (extra firechance is only worth it on Colbert because of how many guns and how fast they fire, and the free damage boost with heavy HE)