IfYouSeeKhaos Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 17 hours ago, thornzero said: Yester-day in the twitch stream it came up again, whether Russian changes will carry over to Wows and yet again the community managers reiterated that they are two totally different companies on two totally different paths and not to worry, Wows will not be following suit. You new here? Everytime there is a change at WG players on forums call WG liars because they had specifically asked about that change on the forum (back in the day...now it's twitch/reddit/facebook/discord/etc) & they were told "it definitely will not happen"... Thing is...WG did not lie to them because you (& zero % of the player base...at least any of them that would ever need to inquire on a forum/reddit/facebook/twitch/etc) have never spoken to "WG"... "Community managers" are not/have never been/& will never be "WG"... Also...CMs are under an NDA (Non Disclosure Act)... If there is an article to be released tomorrow with all of these changes the CMs would have known about it for about a month or 2...& Yet...if you directly ask them the day before the release date of that article of those changes are going to occur it is their job to directly lie to you & tell you, "No...absolutely not"... That's what NDA is & every single one of them have signed it... & None of them have any say so in what changes will be coming though many give their opinions w/out ever clarifying it is their opinion & then we get players on the forums saying, "WG lied to me"... CMs are NOT "WG" just because they get their paychecks signed by them...they are out of the loop until they are told to keep their mouth shut until WG released what they're gonna release. Edited July 19 by IfYouSeeKhaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 2 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said: "He" had nothing to do with that point...only HogHammer did... He's talking as if the changes are coming here & we need to deal with them. Here you seem to be having a go at me for thinking the changes are coming, or could come, here. 47 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said: You new here? Here you seem to be having a go at Thornzero for thinking they definitely won't. So... DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT THINK THAT THESE CHANGES WILL COME TO OUR VERSION OF THE GAME? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thornzero Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 7 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said: You new here? Sort of. It will be two years in September but I played maybe 18 months of that. So I really can't say I've been lied to by a CM. [The big submarine lie was before my time.] They mentioned the NDA also because there was a lot of future questions in that stream. I do not envy what the CMs deal with. The amount of complainers on stream and otherwise is ridiculous. But given the benefit of the doubt, they try hard to quell the fear [of change or whatever.] This is why I think wows is trying to be its own company and not a clone of the Russian counterpart. My opinion is subject to change with new information. [As is yours.] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Could we say that the CM's are WG, but the problem is that internally the information only flows in one direction, down, and never up. Is that standard practice industrywise, anyone know? If people have the mistaken idea that the CM's form a channel between the player base and WG/devs, where does that idea come from? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thornzero Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: Could we say that the CM's are WG, but the problem is that internally the information only flows in one direction, down, and never up. Is that standard practice industrywise, anyone know? If people have the mistaken idea that the CM's form a channel between the player base and WG/devs, where does that idea come from? Information flows both ways or we would not have sub torp nerfs // or // cv adjustments incoming. [squeaky gears getting the grease.] People talk to CMs all day on discord. It is no mistake. But they cannot bend to every whim of the player base. That is ridiculous. Otherwise there would be no need for feedback because no channels by which to communicate this feedback. That is not the case. There are channels, whether we like them or not. [discord / surveys in game / etc.] I don't know about standards as I have only played a couple games, and never felt like visiting a forum or have any complaints about these products. Edited July 20 by thornzero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 10 hours ago, thornzero said: Sort of. It will be two years in September but I played maybe 18 months of that. So I really can't say I've been lied to by a CM. [The big submarine lie was before my time.] They mentioned the NDA also because there was a lot of future questions in that stream. I do not envy what the CMs deal with. The amount of complainers on stream and otherwise is ridiculous. But given the benefit of the doubt, they try hard to quell the fear [of change or whatever.] This is why I think wows is trying to be its own company and not a clone of the Russian counterpart. My opinion is subject to change with new information. [As is yours.] Ah, as someone who has been with the game considerably longer...getting lied to by CMs has been depressingly common. At this point, we are way beyond 'giving the benefit of the doubt'. It is only wise to give that benefit a few times...however, in WGs case, they have consistently shown a desire to exploit that doubt benefit and gain unethical advantage. It will take a long time of good behavior before people will trust WG talk again...and that's only if WG demonstrates a track record of behavior that has integrity...something that hasn't even started happening yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SureBridge Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Could we keep this on track please? I'm pretty sure the subject is not "Do WG CM's lie to the player base?" Nor "Do the CM's just not talk to the WG Dev team?" This forum is to discuss a game that (presumably) the people who play it like playing. We're not part of WG, so there is no reason for us to moderate "tone" but this sort of thing is just not constructive or useful, and seems to just get a bunch of folks (understandably) upset. So please, let's try to keep the tone here positive, so that when you visit, your day gets better 🙂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfYouSeeKhaos Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 (edited) On 7/19/2024 at 5:52 PM, Ensign Cthulhu said: A- Here you seem to be having a go at me for thinking the changes are coming, or could come, here. B- Here you seem to be having a go at Thornzero for thinking they definitely won't. So... C- DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT THINK THAT THESE CHANGES WILL COME TO OUR VERSION OF THE GAME? A- HogHammer clarified that the changes were not WG...& you were given undue credit for clarifying the same thing...which you did not. All I was doing was clarifying that for him...& in the process explaining that rather than explaining that the 2 games were different (like HogHammer did) that you were doing your usual "defend WG/blame the player base***" stance despite the changes announced not even having anything to do with WG. (***"Players have been asking.../& now Lesta..."...as if the Lesta changes have anything to do with the WG player base). B- (Let me answer C here 1st...I don't waste my time thinking about irrelevant data...if it's announced it is coming to WG I'll give opinions about it then. I surely won't be attacking players viewpoints about it one way or the other)... Never "had a go at him" for his thoughts as to whether it was coming or not...just clarifying to him that if WG did have plans for it one way or the other that until they were ready to release those plans the CMs would have zero knowledge of it & CMs directly making an announcement 1 way or the other is not to be taken as "WG said"...as the CMs are not "WG" in this context of the definition. CMs are not devs...period. 14 hours ago, SureBridge said: Could we keep this on track please? I'm pretty sure the subject is not "Do WG CM's lie to the player base?" Nor "Do the CM's just not talk to the WG Dev team?" 🙂 Somebody directly quoted a CM from a twitch stream giving an "official WG" (dev team) stance on the subject of whether these changes will come to this version... Clarifying that the CMs are not in the position to give official WG stances in relationship to the "subject of the thread" is "keeping on track". There is too much of this (as you can see in this example): 19 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: Ah, as someone who has been with the game considerably longer...getting lied to by CMs has been depressingly common. At this point, we are way beyond 'giving the benefit of the doubt'. It is only wise to give that benefit a few times...however, in WGs case, they have consistently shown a desire to exploit that doubt benefit and gain unethical advantage. It will take a long time of good behavior before people will trust WG talk again...and that's only if WG demonstrates a track record of behavior that has integrity...something that hasn't even started happening yet. Even seasoned veterans start a comment (1st paragraph) with "CMs lied to me"... Then follow it up with 2 more paragraphs of "WG's case"/"WG talk"/"WG...track record"... As if the 2 (CMs/WG) are the same thing... They are NOT. & I was just clarifying that for a new players (& for the veterans that still don't seem to get that). On 7/20/2024 at 12:13 AM, thornzero said: Sort of. It will be two years in September but I played maybe 18 months of that. So I really can't say I've been lied to by a CM. [The big submarine lie was before my time.] & For the record...the big submarine "lie" wasn't actually a lie... Even though they said there will be no subs in the game they clarified that the reason why was because they were too fragile & they would be quickly annihilated once spotted...but... The reason they would have been so quickly annihilated is they would have been permaspotted any time they were in a match with a CV because back then CVs had multiple squadrons of planes & sparing 1 to park over a sub for as short of a time as it would have taken to kill it would have made subs unviable...exactly as they said (no lie)... But after the CV rework (also before your time) subs became viable...& here we are. Edited July 21 by IfYouSeeKhaos 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said: Even seasoned veterans start a comment (1st paragraph) with "CMs lied to me"... Then follow it up with 2 more paragraphs of "WG's case"/"WG talk"/"WG...track record"... As if the 2 (CMs/WG) are the same thing... They are NOT. & I was just clarifying that for a new players (& for the veterans that still don't seem to get that). I've also had dev team members lie to me, as well as senior WG leadership lie to me. I'm not sure claiming CMs (who are WG employees) are somehow not representing WG when they speak is an accurate idea...especially when they used the special colors to denote official statements. The reality is that WG as a whole (leadership down to CMs) does not have a culture that prizes being truthful and clear with communication. You can try to gaslight all you want on this topic...but that reputation has been earned over the years by WG staff's lack of integrity when communicating to the players. It's why we tell the new players to read carefully...to pay attention to the fine print...to be aware that things may not be as they are sold in the advertising copy. Because, just like most companies in the gaming industry, WG has and does use some of the common deceptive practices. Caveat Emptor. Edited July 21 by Daniel_Allan_Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 Holy Mother of the Schwartz ! Whew.......this is one convoluted thread to read and digest (if that is possible without some serious drugs...!) I really hope you all "feel better now...." cause, the entire thread is........silly ! Who cares whom does what. What matters is that "you" like it enough to stay or dislike it enough to leave..... And to quote @IfYouSeeKhaos "here we are...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogHammer Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 Recent topics are way off-topic and recently not to the benefit of forum members. Will close topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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