An opinion of the state of the game.

[USMC2142]

I rarely posted in WG's forum, and this will be my first in this one. I am pasting in a post that is on Reddit that says just how I feel about what is going on with the game. I know this will not change anything, but what is going on in tier 8-superships makes me sad. 

This game's player base has a serious problem, and I doubt WG will ever have any real incentive to do things better until the player base puts in an equal amount of effort. It's not a matter of player's being bad at the game, but more so the complete unwillingness to even try to improve by a large portion of the player base. So many players actively defend their poor play and complete lack of even the most basic game knowledge.

But looking at this makes me really understand WGs actions, or lack thereof when it comes to trying to make this a balanced game. When the majority of the player base lacks the skill level necessary to even play a ship to it's strengths and weaknesses, why would WG even care about spending resources on effectively balancing. Why should they care if a ship is overperforming when played correctly if the other 70%+ of players just die immediately in it like any other ship? Why should WG care that submarines and carriers are unfun to play against if most players can't exceed 20-30k damage in them?

I feel a lot of the non-monetization related complaints about WG all stem from the fact that we assume they want to cater to the players who care about being good at the game, when in reality we're in the minority who they realistically don't need to care about. Personally, I doubt that WG will ever fix most of the glaring balancing issues and broken mechanics this game has. Why would they when they will always have a loyal portion of the customer base that lacks the game knowledge to even understand what balanced means?

 

Edited July 18 by USMC2142

[I_cant_Swim_]

@USMC2142 Welcome to the Forum! Good post, which touches on a core issue with the game. Indeed, players need to train to get better and make the most of the game, and the game needs to get better to provide a framework which makes training intuitive, fun, and rewarding. IMO, the game needs to lead the way with an extensive training program that can entice the player base to follow. Both approaches must coexist, naturally.

[oldblackdog]

Good post...

[Itwastuesday]

It's because the primary game mode is random battles that doesn't have a competitive element or matchmaking. A player with 0% winrate gets the same matchmaking as one with 100%, and since stats aren't shown ingame, he'll appear just the same.

Other games I played like Starcraft 2 had a strong competitive atmosphere. You didn't want to be bronze so getting better and winning mattered. Here, I suspect for the most it doesn't. 

[Navalpride33]

3 hours ago, USMC2142 said:

Why would they when they will always have a loyal portion of the customer base that lacks the game knowledge to even understand what balanced means?

Well.. There's a disagreement in your whole argument. There's no "lack of game knowledge" when it comes to balance.

I, have a disagreement on your point of view of a balance game, how to fix it and who is responsible for it...

One thing for sure... Its not the Player's base fault as you described as the issue...

IF anything, the player base is at fault but because they have a need for power problem. Those who are asking for more power and more capable ships, are not the new guys or those not knowing about WOWS fundamentals.

Its the ones who do know... Those are the ones who are asking to break the game in the first place. (now WG is not innocent either but the topic you brought about is in my view,  incorrect).

To WG's credit.. They have been reluctant in putting a bunch of OP/over capable ships.. That trend has changed in recent years. Its not for the benefit of the game nor the player base asking for it.

Edited July 18 by Navalpride33

[3LUE]

I agree with the OP 100%. Good post. 

[_KlRlTO_]

8 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Well.. There's a disagreement in your whole argument. There's no "lack of game knowledge" when it comes to balance.

I, have a disagreement on your point of view of a balance game, how to fix it and who is responsible for it...

One thing for sure... Its not the Player's base fault as you described as the issue...

IF anything, the player base is at fault but because they have a need for power problem. Those who are asking for more power and more capable ships, are not the new guys or those not knowing about WOWS fundamentals.

Its the ones who do know... Those are the ones who are asking the break the game in the first place. (now WG is not innocent either but the topic you brought about is in my view,  incorrect).

To WG's credit.. They have been reluctant in putting a bunch of OP/over capable ships.. That trend has changed in recent years. Its not for the benefit of the game.

To add on, these are also often the people with the biggest issues with CVs and Subs, and there is a very logical reason they dislike them. CVs and Pre-Nerf subs create a form of in-game chaos. Players who have studied the game, especially ones who have practiced it, focus their game play on ways to maximize their results against other surface ships, but CVs provide spotting and attack angles that wouldn't otherwise exist, so it makes the game exponentially harder, which is far more noticable when you have been actively training your skills to maximize your efficiency. Because you have to play different around a CV, it makes you work harder and provides greater opportunities to screw up. People with egos about playing competitive at all times sometimes don't cope well with this, so they push to get rid of the thing giving them a headache. Meanwhile, the players that do adjust well tell the ones falling behind to "Get gud", and that triggers them.

The really funny part is there are battleship players that complain just as loud about the DD mafia. The reality is that a decent chunk of players who like being competitive to the point of toxicity also whine a lot.

[Itwastuesday]

4 minutes ago, _KlRlTO_ said:

To add on, these are also often the people with the biggest issues with CVs and Subs, and there is a very logical reason they dislike them. CVs and Pre-Nerf subs create a form of in-game chaos. 

Chaos is the opposite of what they create. All they do is push people into 2 opposed HE sniper blobs who statcheck each other with HE DPM, the most boring, mindless and static gameplay possible. 

[Navalpride33]

13 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

All they do is push people into 2 opposed HE sniper blobs who statcheck each other with HE DPM, the most boring, mindless and static gameplay possible. 

I think the lethality of some in-game elements causes this... What you describe happens in matches without CVs are subs.

I view CV play as the must melatonin play style in WOWS... How anyone can stay awake while playing CVs is a sight to behold.

[Itwastuesday]

12 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

I think the lethality of some in-game elements causes this... What you describe happens in matches without CVs are subs.

Not with good players. 

[_KlRlTO_]

31 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Chaos is the opposite of what they create. All they do is push people into 2 opposed HE sniper blobs who statcheck each other with HE DPM, the most boring, mindless and static gameplay possible. 

Bad players do this all the time. The difference is that when CVs are present, the players who don't know how to play against CVs turn into bad players and do the same.

[Navalpride33]

Just now, Itwastuesday said:

Not with good players. 

Depends, even "good players" do dumb things like HE only Fuso match. Which, spams HE all match and not using AP.

Again, why do "good players" do these types of challenges? Maybe,  they want to test out the outcome. 

I've personally seen these shenanigans... I call them out on it, usually its players who know better.

[Wulf_Ace]

2 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

It's because the primary game mode is random battles that doesn't have a competitive element or matchmaking. A player with 0% winrate gets the same matchmaking as one with 100%, and since stats aren't shown ingame, he'll appear just the same.

Other games I played like Starcraft 2 had a strong competitive atmosphere. You didn't want to be bronze so getting better and winning mattered. Here, I suspect for the most it doesn't. 

and ranked is better? same bad players in battles with less ships.

[Wulf_Ace]

last night I was really eager to play an hour or two, i gave up after second game, the amount of stupid plays was horrendeous.

First battle two cruisers leave their flank to go to mid and die. Yamato sniping from ultra max range and stationary. 1 afk.

Second battle, only dd at flank leaves flank and goes to mid, on his way to mid he goes afk for 2 min, then wakes up then dies. At the same flank our bb, goes to border and ride it without reason or sense, he didnt even shoot. The whole flank was spotted all the time beacouse enemy had Shima that could do whatever it wants. Other flank was even better, Smaland went into cap, fires his guns at nothing, dies. So we were doomed right there, morons plays important ships which they have no knowlege. I dont expect them to play unicum, but basic sense of gameplay at damn tier 10 would be nice!

Should I even mention increase in number of afk players?

I turned on the game happy, i left frustrated.

 

[thornzero]

I don't know if they are new players or new to randoms but many of the teams lately in the past week or so have teammates with under 1oo random battles in T5/6/7.

One of the teams was so low, the team average was 39% vs. 5o%. 1/2 the team was deleted in 2 minutes.

There is nothing you can do with these matches. There is no amount of carrying possible. They are going to have to learn and it will take time.

I know I am not the only one who experiences these types of teams. No one is excluded and I had to start somewhere also.

[Itwastuesday]

24 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

and ranked is better? same bad players in battles with less ships.

Who said it is? Ranked isn't the primary mode and doesn't even mirror ranked battle rules (less ships, restricted tiers). Further, the incentive is just to get steel, not getting into higher leagues for better matches or bragging rights, as ranks reset often and nobody cares about your rank. I wouldn't consider it competitive, not like in other games. 

[Itwastuesday]

1 hour ago, _KlRlTO_ said:

Bad players do this all the time. The difference is that when CVs are present, the players who don't know how to play against CVs turn into bad players and do the same.

Yes. So? 

1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

Depends, 

On what? Certainly not the lethality of the ingame elements. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

@USMC2142 Welcome aboard!

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 hours ago, USMC2142 said:

I rarely posted in WG's forum, and this will be my first in this one. I am pasting in a post that is on Reddit that says just how I feel about what is going on with the game. I know this will not change anything, but what is going on in tier 8-superships makes me sad. 

This game's player base has a serious problem, and I doubt WG will ever have any real incentive to do things better until the player base puts in an equal amount of effort. It's not a matter of player's being bad at the game, but more so the complete unwillingness to even try to improve by a large portion of the player base. So many players actively defend their poor play and complete lack of even the most basic game knowledge.

But looking at this makes me really understand WGs actions, or lack thereof when it comes to trying to make this a balanced game. When the majority of the player base lacks the skill level necessary to even play a ship to it's strengths and weaknesses, why would WG even care about spending resources on effectively balancing. Why should they care if a ship is overperforming when played correctly if the other 70%+ of players just die immediately in it like any other ship? Why should WG care that submarines and carriers are unfun to play against if most players can't exceed 20-30k damage in them?

I feel a lot of the non-monetization related complaints about WG all stem from the fact that we assume they want to cater to the players who care about being good at the game, when in reality we're in the minority who they realistically don't need to care about. Personally, I doubt that WG will ever fix most of the glaring balancing issues and broken mechanics this game has. Why would they when they will always have a loyal portion of the customer base that lacks the game knowledge to even understand what balanced means?

 

Welcome to DevStrike.
Hope you have an extra set of "carry harder" pants.  🙂 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 hour ago, thornzero said:

I don't know if they are new players or new to randoms but many of the teams lately in the past week or so have teammates with under 1oo random battles in T5/6/7.

One of the teams was so low, the team average was 39% vs. 5o%. 1/2 the team was deleted in 2 minutes.

There is nothing you can do with these matches. There is no amount of carrying possible. They are going to have to learn and it will take time.

I know I am not the only one who experiences these types of teams. No one is excluded and I had to start somewhere also.

It's common on NA to have tier 5 games be mostly bots.

We are seeing really low population numbers lately over here.

Plus, the players in those games are experienced players grinding the new lines (like me)...people playing their OP premiums...or completely new and inexperienced players. There is almost no in between.

All that stuff Asymm has been talking about in terms of a game in the dying phase? Feels pretty real.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

2 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

and ranked is better? same bad players in battles with less ships.

When I stopped playing Randoms years ago the Ranked was my salvation... but not any more... it is absolutely terribad... clueless players everywhere... 😞

And Brawl... it used to be good... but, for example, current DD only 5 vs. 5 Tier V is showing all problems 10x exaggerated... 100% clueless players everywhere...

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

3 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

I view CV play as the must melatonin play style in WOWS... How anyone can stay awake while playing CVs is a sight to behold.

It certainly is the most chill class to play at the moment...though it can be infuriating when your team refuses to take advantage of the opportunities you create for them.

[Verytis]

Funny thing is that T5-7 has this problem even worse. But why is it not a problem there?

Yes it is the entry point for new players, but the other thing is that there are often fewer people who'll stop you from wiping the floor with them.

[Wolfswetpaws]

4 hours ago, _KlRlTO_ said:

To add on, these are also often the people with the biggest issues with CVs and Subs, and there is a very logical reason they dislike them. CVs and Pre-Nerf subs create a form of in-game chaos. Players who have studied the game, especially ones who have practiced it, focus their game play on ways to maximize their results against other surface ships, but CVs provide spotting and attack angles that wouldn't otherwise exist, so it makes the game exponentially harder, which is far more noticable when you have been actively training your skills to maximize your efficiency. Because you have to play different around a CV, it makes you work harder and provides greater opportunities to screw up. People with egos about playing competitive at all times sometimes don't cope well with this, so they push to get rid of the thing giving them a headache. Meanwhile, the players that do adjust well tell the ones falling behind to "Get gud", and that triggers them.

The really funny part is there are battleship players that complain just as loud about the DD mafia. The reality is that a decent chunk of players who like being competitive to the point of toxicity also whine a lot.

The difference between a winner and a whiner is more than just a couple of letters from the alphabet.

[Admiral_Karasu]

15 minutes ago, Verytis said:

Funny thing is that T5-7 has this problem even worse. But why is it not a problem there?

Yes it is the entry point for new players, but the other thing is that there are often fewer people who'll stop you from wiping the floor with them.

No new players?