A mathematical perspective on 21 point commanders.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

It takes 2,908,000 commander XP to go from zero (new recruit) to hero (21 points).

If you play to the third crate every night, and your use of boosters (or absence thereof) is such that your CXP is equal to your Ship XP (it is often higher if you belong to a developed clan), then your nominal gain of CXP every night is 37,000 and your zero-to-hero time is 79 days. We might call this the Charles Atlas method. 

If you space it out over an entire year, it's 7,968 per day. This is what you might call the Tortoise-and-Hare method (slow and steady).

If you repeat the Charles Atlas method three further times, you will get four 21 pointers at the end of a year.

Alternatively, you can take four commanders simultaneously through the Tortoise-and-Hare approach for just under the XP demand of the third crate and you will still get to the end of the year with four 21 point commanders.

 

The difference is that four cycles of Charles Atlas will take you to ~320 days, which leaves 45 days of grinding to be allotted for things like retraining the commander to his next ship (unless you are going to use dubs for that, which some people do). The T&H method doesn't allow for this, and is probably best for developing a commander who you've already decided is going to stay in that ship forever. 

 

ETA From the Wiki:

            

 

Edited July 16 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Frostbow]

22 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

zero-to-hero time is 79 days.

That is extremely slow to be honest. There are faster and better ways to do it, and it would help way more players.

[Wolfswetpaws]

Some Commanders start with 10 skill points or 6 skill points.  That shortens the grind time.
But the math is nice to know, for time management and resource budgeting purposes.  🙂 

[Unlooky]

1 hour ago, Frostbow said:

That is extremely slow to be honest. There are faster and better ways to do it, and it would help way more players.

This is also assuming that you are playing every match with that commander. At best you are grinding one nation with a variety of premiums, at worst you're playing one line repeatedly. 

[HamptonRoads]

8 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

This is also assuming that you are playing every match with that commander. At best you are grinding one nation with a variety of premiums, at worst you're playing one line repeatedly. 

Not necessarily, if you're playing a 21 point captain all of that CXP is converted to Elite CXP and sent to a pool where it can be used by any captain you choose.

[HogHammer]

@clydeplays made a video about Captain grinds to 21 points a couple of years ago, which is still valid. It offers several tips on how to make that grind more efficient.

 In this video, he offers some of the tips already discussed above, as well as new ones. 

 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

9 hours ago, Frostbow said:

That is extremely slow to be honest.

I'm sure it is, to some. In my case, I have a metric f***ton of blue commander XP boosters and I know I could do it a LOT faster.

But newer players won't have that resource.  My point was to put in perspective what to brand new players might seem an impossible grind (OMIGOD NEARLY THREE MILLION CXP!!!!!) and to show that it's actually quite achievable in terms of the obvious goals that WG puts in front of us daily (the third daily crate).

For the record, it took me a year as a new player to get my sh** together and achieve my first 19 pointer, as they were back then, when I could have had one in (1708000/37000) ~ 46 days. A month and a half.

[ArIskandir]

I just got My first 21 pt commander some weeks ago... After 4-5 years playing. I call it My secret snail technique... Unrivaled slowness, nobody expects that.

[Frostbow]

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I'm sure it is, to some. In my case, I have a metric f***ton of blue commander XP boosters and I know I could do it a LOT faster.

But newer players won't have that resource.  My point was to put in perspective what to brand new players might seem an impossible grind (OMIGOD NEARLY THREE MILLION CXP!!!!!) and to show that it's actually quite achievable in terms of the obvious goals that WG puts in front of us daily (the third daily crate).

For the record, it took me a year as a new player to get my sh** together and achieve my first 19 pointer, as they were back then, when I could have had one in (1708000/37000) ~ 46 days. A month and a half.

Back when I started to leave the confines of Co-op and started playing PVP, and making sure I get to the 3rd daily crate, the amount of Commander XP that I was earning increased at a rate faster than expected—and I was just a new player at that time, without buying anything (save for my first purchase, a 30-day Premium Account).

There are ways and means, all of them free, to get a 21-pointer in less than 79 playing days. The recently concluded D-Day Operation is a prime example. Fighting it out in PVP, is another. Most important is courage and consistency in each battle to push the counter nearer to the 21-point mark, fast.

[Asym]

23 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I just got My first 21 pt commander some weeks ago... After 4-5 years playing. I call it My secret snail technique... Unrivaled slowness, nobody expects that.

Funny that !  We have "several" players we division with that have been in game since 2016 and they have at best, one or two 21 point CPT's....  They have real jobs and families....  Some of us that are retired and the kids are all grown have well over thirty...

And, if I were to recommend how to play this game from scratch to a new player:  only play Premium ships once you really get into the game and have one 21 pointer per Nation you want to have....   The Tech Tree stuff is "nice to have" but they "force" you into @Ensign Cthulhu 2.9+ grinds....

So my advice is find a very small fleet of ships, say 12 or so, and be done with the rest.....  Remember:  you can only play one ship at a time !  If I had to do this over again, I'd have what was freely available in crates or events and about 15 ships.  I play one ship now in Operations full time (unless there is an event grind where I have to play say an "American" ship to meet the goals).  So, 'my, my, my Shimanto' (there is a song in that name!)  has a 21 point IJN CPT of her own and is all I play for Ops.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

14 minutes ago, Asym said:

We have "several" players we division with that have been in game since 2016 and they have at best, one or two 21 point CPT's....  They have real jobs and families...

Surprise, surprise, SO DO I. I have a full time job. I spend parts of my evenings after that job running around picking the kids up from activities, running them to activities, picking up orders for groceries, garden care stuff, etc. etc. etc. Life is not just an endless parade of WOWS for me.

 

16 minutes ago, Asym said:

And, if I were to recommend how to play this game from scratch to a new player:  only play Premium ships once you really get into the game and have one 21 pointer per Nation you want to have....

I played free for 9 months before opening my wallet, but now there are so many coal ships at all tiers that a new player might not need to open it at all. And yes, one 21 pointer per nation (that you operate) is a good goal with the game the way it is now. (I dedicated 2023 to finishing that goal, and now my intention is to get all my legendary commanders who aren't already there to that position.)

[Ensign Cthulhu]

22 minutes ago, Asym said:

So, 'my, my, my Shimanto' (there is a song in that name!) 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UGjD2ckJkg

 

My, my, my Shimanto

Why, why, why, Shimanto?

I could see that ship was not for PVP

So off to ops she will go for all eternity!

 

[Pugilistic]

Time plus volume equals 21-pointers. Once you have a couple, the ECXP piles up. 

Been here since 2015 and have 81. 

Edited July 16 by Pugilistic

[Aethervox]

2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I just got My first 21 pt commander some weeks ago... After 4-5 years playing.

I might have just one 21 pter (or 20 pter). A few are getting close   .... after playing since Alpha testing (yes, I have both reward ships). Thing is I use a similar snail technique too by having a dedicated Cpt on all my ships. Most are now 10 pts or better - a 10 pter being the minimum benchmark to get the first 4 pt skill, ofc. 😁

[Gnirf]

The math is there. The Question is, when in a new players career does it pay off to go for 21p? I think that while useful, I am somewhat rethinking my own strategy. Yes I have 80+ 21p. But I am more interested now when the cost of having a full captain have risen from roughly 1,7 to 2,9 M on the newer lines seeking more optimum levels. While I want more or less all lines to have 21 on T10 (not CVs and Subs) I am less inclined to hunt for it on lower tiers. I do have old lines where I have 21 from T6 and up. It was more a decision that all ships with captains that had 19 when rework came should be pushed over time to 21. 

Despite playing huge numbers of games the elite XP advances very slowly so most 21p are grinded for the most part. But 2 lines that I enjoy RN and German BBs I have settled for the 18 Mark on T8 (and T7), it has taken at least 5 regrinds to get the T9 to 21.

18 I feel is a good captain for a BB. You reach that around the half point and have 1,5 M left when you cross that line. 

DDs and Cruisers manages on even less. Now over extreme long time if it is a ship that I like I will push that special captain. But given the many premiums time will not be enough.

Maybe a new player should identify comfort levels for captains for quite a long time. 21 can be pushed once you have plenty of premiums and are longer in your career. As a new player it pays massively to have a diverse fleet with many factions f.e. in such an event with personal challenges as we have now. This makes the concentration on a few nations and captains less wise?

To start with 10 and 14 are good levels IMO at your higher tiers as a goal.

 

Edited July 16 by Gnirf

[yss_turtleship]

I've been playing for two years. It took me seven months to grind a commander from a Tier 3 ship, starting at 6-points and then up to 21 points. I did get it by combining all the tips mentioned here -premium ship, premium time, eco boosters, playing CB regularly. I now have three 21-pointers, a 19-pointer, and a 20-pointer. 90% of my ships have commanders. 

I found @clydeplays videos very helpful and do use a spreadsheet to track them. I just have to do a better job keeping them updated. lol

5 hours ago, HogHammer said:

@clydeplays made a video about Captain grinds to 21 points a couple of years ago, which is still valid. It offers several tips on how to make that grind more efficient.

 In this video, he offers some of the tips already discussed above, as well as new ones. 

 

 

[Asym]

3 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UGjD2ckJkg

 

My, my, my Shimanto

Why, why, why, Shimanto?

I could see that ship was not for PVP

So off to ops she will go for all eternity!

 

Nice, but the actual song is from the Knack.

Written by: Doug Fieger, Burton Averre - Album: Get The Knack - Released: 1979

"Ooh, my little pretty one, my pretty one
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona?
Ooh, you make my motor run, my motor run
Got it comin' off of the line, Sharona

Never gonna stop, give it up, such a dirty mind
I always get it up for the touch of the younger kind
My, my, my, ay, ah, wooh!
M-m-m-my Sharona

et al...

M-m-m-my Sharona
M-m-m-my Sharona
M-m-m-my Sharona
M-m-m-my Sharona

Oh, my Sharona
Oh, my Sharona
Oh, my Sharona"

Of course. the lyrics can easy be changed ! 

 

[Asym]

3 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Surprise, surprise, SO DO I. I have a full time job. I spend parts of my evenings after that job running around picking the kids up from activities, running them to activities, picking up orders for groceries, garden care stuff, etc. etc. etc. Life is not just an endless parade of WOWS for me.

I played free for 9 months before opening my wallet, but now there are so many coal ships at all tiers that a new player might not need to open it at all. And yes, one 21 pointer per nation (that you operate) is a good goal with the game the way it is now. (I dedicated 2023 to finishing that goal, and now my intention is to get all my legendary commanders who aren't already there to that position.)

I suspect most everyone not retired is often pressed for time.

[mashed68]

I like playing different ships. I also don't get to play a lot. 
It took me 2yrs to get my first 21pt. Another 3-4 months to get the second. Trying for a 3rd now but its been 6 months. 

[Jakob Knight]

I've been playing since Beta, and I consider myself lucky to have five 21 pointers.  It is an insane amount of XP to get a Commander to that level, and just choosing one to concentrate on can feel like the game becomes a grind.   Best advice I can give is make sure it's a Commander you will want to play in the majority of your game time -after- you progress them to 21, and their ship options are as comfortable for you as possible.

 

Also, having to reskill a 21 point Commander is going to cost more, so pick the job you want them to do with care.

 

 

[ArIskandir]

9 hours ago, Asym said:

And, if I were to recommend how to play this game from scratch to a new player:  only play Premium ships once you really get into the game

I can't really disagree with this. Grinding TT lines is like spinning the hamster's wheel, it keeps You entertained for the time but it isn't getting You anywhere.

[WES_HoundDog]

Best solution.

Forget all this and just free commander xp to 10. and consider anything after that fluff*.   (*unless your in a gunboat dd or secondary BB)

[Jakeshuffle]

23 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

It takes 2,908,000 commander XP to go from zero (new recruit) to hero (21 points).

 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

17 hours ago, Asym said:

Never gonna stop, give it up, such a dirty mind
I always get it up for the touch of the younger kind

Yeah, that song didn't age well. 😛

[Ensign Cthulhu]

19 hours ago, Gnirf said:

The Question is, when in a new players career does it pay off to go for 21p?

I think it helps to have one as early as you can swing it. Get a T5 or T6 coal premium and a matching 35K coal commander as soon as you have the resources, and rock on. The first one will help generate ECXP for the rest, and to help move commanders up the line. 

19 hours ago, Gnirf said:

As a new player it pays massively to have a diverse fleet with many factions f.e. in such an event with personal challenges as we have now. This makes the concentration on a few nations and captains less wise?

This has always been my opinion. I found out the hard way what happens if you don't have a broad array of tools in your toolbox, so to speak, and I set out to ensure that it would never happen again. But the Commander rework ensured that even one 21 pointer in a particular nation is enough. If I were starting out from scratch, I would ensure that those were the unique commanders (Halsey, Yamamoto, Kuznetsov, etc), although I would probably take one of the "seasoned" commanders to 21 first, e.g. Jack Dunkirk or John Doe, and I would use the climb to Tier 8 and the Halsey and Yamamoto grinds as carrots to get him there. He could then help generate ECXP for the rest.

Edited July 17 by Ensign Cthulhu