DD players who die right at the start.

[thornzero]

I watched a streamer, in a Schlieffen with a div mate in the same ship - full steam into a centre B cap in randoms - secondaries blazing with the intent of 'keeping the DD busy' [so she said] while her teammate steamed into the adjacent cap with the same intent. They were both focused and died in two minutes. B cap boat got over 2oo secondary hits, adjacent cap got hardly any. Then she says, well we can try it again. [try what exactly?]

I stopped watching. Then I was thinking, I wonder what her stats are for playing at tier 1o? 38%

I thought most of the streamers were experts until I ran into these goof balls.

Back to topic:

I have gotten better at contesting caps but I feel I do so better with a gun boat than a torp boat. Sometimes when you are playing it safe and being more patient for the cap you still get a hard time from the teammates [mostly high tiers but I rarely play them yet. my focus is on mid-tiers]

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

As a guy who caps with a CV, I share your frustration with folks who don't understand risk / reward with ships.

You capped a cap at start of the game with radar cruisers, DDs, Subs, CV planes, hydro thru islands .... in a CV? Then you must be a great player. Because its by then most DDs have to do it or risk losing map/cap control. Its usually hard for a DD to push in later when enemy team has already established control over an area.

Or where you saying you capped in a CV late game? That would make sense and I have done that myself, I even capped caps in a Yamato in late game but that was in a game with no CV and 2 remaining enemy ships Vs 4-5 of us, but thats not really any risk and not really relevant to this discussion of why DDs die fast.

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

A DD doesn't need to suicide to win a cap or to get to a buff...he just needs patience and understanding of the role...skills which most players just don't possess.

Well its easy to say he "doesn't need to", but he still need to cap or the enemy team wins in 8 min. And usually you need to secure caps early on or you will loose control and have an uphill battle the rest of the game.

And capping means staying in an extremely small area for 60 seconds surrounded by islands which radars and hydro see thru and planes can appear out of nowhere at any time .... with 20 000 HP and usually no heals ... while the enemy team see you're entire progress during all those seconds....

Buffs, then you dont even have the "luxury" of waiting just a few seconds to grab it like in caps. With buffs youre either at middle of the map when that buff sails down (and suicide) or then enemy team gets it, and you probably loose for youre team because you didn't grab the buff. There are no "patience" in Arms race, either you are at the buff when it lits up or you lose it.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Again, I push in with a CV...the difference is, I know how to do it without dying. Same with battleships and cruisers.

Knowing HOW and WHEN to put yourself into more aggressive positions and win the consequential actions is called skill.

The difference is that in youre CV you can CHOOSE exactly when and where you want to push in and even if you dont even want to, thats the difference between CVs and DDs in this scenario. I can also push in, in my CV if I have island cover on my side, or maybe my team has already set dominance on my side of the map and I have 2 lines of ships between me and the enemy.

A DD cant choose when he "feels" like grabbing a buff. A DD CAN choose when to try and get a cap, but if he waits to long and enemy team already gained control its very hard to just push in by yourself and successfully steal back a cap. There is a short time window for most objectives a DD must perform, not so much for any of the other 4 classes.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Knowing HOW and WHEN to put yourself into more aggressive positions and win the consequential actions is called skill.

If you play arms race the same way you play a three cap mode, you are not playing skillfully. It's time to up your game.

 

Yes, and as I said in my first post Arms race throws HOW and WHEN out the window.

I dont play Arms race the same way because in 3 cap I can wait for a little bit (but not much), while in Arms race I either get the buff when it comes or the reds take it.

And yeah, I really suck at playing DDs so its probably just time for me to "up my game" ........ 😄            

 

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Guess how much I care about getting 'blamed' for not doing stupid stuff by fools in random matches who don't know what they are talking about?

Here's a hint...I play CV. I have thick skin. You should too....most people have no clue how to play the game. Do not value their opinions.

I couldn't care less about some neewbs in game opinions or blame, I know I will be way above them in the post battle result. But guess what ... im not the DD guy who dies in the first 3 min in these modes or any modes for that matter (which the thread is about) Im the DD guy that's last man standing earning a Solo Warrior....

 

Spoiler

 

 

But the remaining 70-80% of the DD players out there (who this thread is about) DO CARE, and gets bullied by the 10-line Yamato guy or the 2 Kearsarge sitting parked behind islands like CVs and flying planes all match. They do care what WG/the game modes tells them they should be doing (suiciding in for caps/buffs) and they get ZERO information from WG on how to do it without dying.

Hell, Ive seen grown men in old forum crying themselves to sleep because they get reported, and creates threads after threads on how unfair life is for CV´s because they get more reports than others etc etc. 

So this isn't about me. im fine, I couldn't give less fooks about WGs game modes etc, I just play the way I know I have great success in and when Yama guy gets 400 XP in the end because he didn't get enough buffs for his 24 km sniping, its his problem, not mine.

But this is why DD die very fast in all modes but especially in Arms race!            (and its no big mystery....)

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Epicenter was boring. Sit hull down in predictable spots and hope RNG benefits the sniping. It's different, but less interesting to me.

Epicenter is pretty much what we have the last minutes in every Arms race battle. And usually BBs and CVs are nowhere to be seen in that last circle. CVs usually sits at their first spawnpoint sending their squads on 24 km flights instead of actually push in and either tank a bit with their HP to unburden the low HP Teammates and also getting a quicker turnaround on their attacks and "BB Guy" whos still on 80% HP and 3 heals is trying desperately to sail thru the map border into next week.

So, Epicenter is still here only concealed in an even more shitty game mode.

 

But I guess that OG Epicenter demanded more commitment of some classes during the entire match, so it had to be scrapped.

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I see these guys die early in normal randoms.

It's not like the new mode increases the stupidity beyond the normal variation, in my experience.

It does increase if you start with stupid and then add even more WG stupidity to it. DDs die in normal as well but there they can at least to some extent choose when to be stupid and try and grab a cap.

A new player that only plays standard mode will do mistakes and get killed, but then he hopefully learn and avoid some of those in the future, but its harder when WG stipulates how and where you should be playing at all times, then its harder for a new player to actually earn some skill but just learn how to die in 50 different ways.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Same logic applies for caps, but maybe you think every DD has to contest the cap immediately at the start of the battle?

No, I don't, see my answer above.

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Low skill play.

No, I don't, see my answer above.

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

This is better play. You position yourself based on the risk / reward context.

Risk is taking caps and buffs, rewards are either wins or death.

That said there are 4 other classes that takes hardly any risk at all in comparison to this.....

 

                            You don't see that many threads about "CV players that die right at the start" or "BB players who die right at the start"  .......... even though this miraculously happens very often .... even if it REALLY shouldnt.....

 

Its always "DDs" for some strange reason ................🤔

 

 

Edited July 10 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

42 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

You capped a cap at start of the game with radar cruisers, DDs, Subs, CV planes, hydro thru islands .... in a CV? Then you must be a great player. Because its by then most DDs have to do it or risk losing map/cap control. Its usually hard for a DD to push in later when enemy team has already established control over an area.

Or where you saying you capped in a CV late game? That would make sense and I have done that myself, I even capped caps in a Yamato in late game but that was in a game with no CV and 2 remaining enemy ships Vs 4-5 of us, but thats not really any risk and not really relevant to this discussion of why DDs die fast.

Well its easy to say he "doesn't need to", but he still need to cap or the enemy team wins in 8 min. And usually you need to secure caps early on or you will loose control and have an uphill battle the rest of the game.

And capping means staying in an extremely small area for 60 seconds surrounded by islands which radars and hydro see thru and planes can appear out of nowhere at any time .... with 20 000 HP and usually no heals ... while the enemy team see you're entire progress during all those seconds....

Buffs, then you dont even have the "luxury" of waiting just a few seconds to grab it like in caps. With buffs youre either at middle of the map when that buff sails down (and suicide) or then enemy team gets it, and you probably loose for youre team because you didn't grab the buff. There are no "patience" in Arms race, either you are at the buff when it lits up or you lose it.

 

The difference is that in youre CV you can CHOOSE exactly when and where you want to push in and even if you dont even want to, thats the difference between CVs and DDs in this scenario. I can also push in, in my CV if I have island cover on my side, or maybe my team has already set dominance on my side of the map and I have 2 lines of ships between me and the enemy.

A DD cant choose when he "feels" like grabbing a buff. A DD CAN choose when to try and get a cap, but if he waits to long and enemy team already gained control its very hard to just push in by yourself and successfully steal back a cap. There is a short time window for most objectives a DD must perform, not so much for any of the other 4 classes.

 

Yes, and as I said in my first post Arms race throws HOW and WHEN out the window.

I dont play Arms race the same way because in 3 cap I can wait for a little bit (but not much), while in Arms race I either get the buff when it comes or the reds take it.

And yeah, I really suck at playing DDs so its probably just time for me to "up my game" ........ 😄            

 

I couldn't care less about some neewbs in game opinions or blame, I know I will be way above them in the post battle result. But guess what ... im not the DD guy who dies in the first 3 min in these modes or any modes for that matter (which the thread is about) Im the DD guy that's last man standing earning a Solo Warrior....

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

But the remaining 70-80% of the DD players out there (who this thread is about) DO CARE, and gets bullied by the 10-line Yamato guy or the 2 Kearsarge sitting parked behind islands like CVs and flying planes all match. They do care what WG/the game modes tells them they should be doing (suiciding in for caps/buffs) and they get ZERO information from WG on how to do it without dying.

Hell, Ive seen grown men in old forum crying themselves to sleep because they get reported, and creates threads after threads on how unfair life is for CV´s because they get more reports than others etc etc. 

So this isn't about me. im fine, I couldn't give less fooks about WGs game modes etc, I just play the way I know I have great success in and when Yama guy gets 400 XP in the end because he didn't get enough buffs for his 24 km sniping, its his problem, not mine.

But this is why DD die very fast in all modes but especially in Arms race!            (and its no big mystery....)

Epicenter is pretty much what we have the last minutes in every Arms race battle. And usually BBs and CVs are nowhere to be seen in that last circle. CVs usually sits at their first spawnpoint sending their squads on 24 km flights instead of actually push in and either tank a bit with their HP to unburden the low HP Teammates and also getting a quicker turnaround on their attacks and "BB Guy" whos still on 80% HP and 3 heals is trying desperately to sail thru the map border into next week.

So, Epicenter is still here only concealed in an even more shitty game mode.

 

But I guess that OG Epicenter demanded more commitment of some classes during the entire match, so it had to be scrapped.

It does increase if you start with stupid and then add even more WG stupidity to it. DDs die in normal as well but there they can at least to some extent choose when to be stupid and try and grab a cap.

A new player that only plays standard mode will do mistakes and get killed, but then he hopefully learn and avoid some of those in the future, but its harder when WG stipulates how and where you should be playing at all times, then its harder for a new player to actually earn some skill but just learn how to die in 50 different ways.

 

No, I don't, see my answer above.

No, I don't, see my answer above.

Risk is taking caps and buffs, rewards are either wins or death.

That said there are 4 other classes that takes hardly any risk at all in comparison to this.....

 

                            You don't see that many threads about "CV players that die right at the start" or "BB players who die right at the start"  .......... even though this miraculously happens very often .... even if it REALLY shouldnt.....

 

Its always "DDs" for some strange reason ................🤔

 

 

I cap with my CV when it makes sense to do so.

In random 12v12, that's mid to late game depending on where everyone is located.

In 6v6 or 7v7 ranked, that could be early game if the enemy team commits to only one side...

It depends.

When looking at early caps with a DD...the important thing is not ACTUALLY CAPPING, but having your fleet win sufficiently within that first five minutes that it BECOMES POSSIBLE to cap.

You do not need to get into the cap circle in the first few minutes. I'll say it again for those not listening...a DD does not HAVE TO get into a cap in the first five minutes.

The DD has to help his team win the battle over that cap...and either sink the enemy ships pushing the cap, or push those ships away so they can't stop our team from capping.

The primary objective is to deal with the enemy fleet...the cap is the REWARD for SUCCESSFULLY dealing with the enemy fleet.

Just focusing on the cap is the low skill play.

So, with that in mind, I don't think that a DD 'has to' grab a cap or buff immediately or he loses. No...he has to deal with the enemy team in the first few minutes so that the cap and / or buffs become available...or he loses.

Subtle, but important distinction. Don't throw your ship away to get a cap or buff that your fleet will lose immediately. Play to drive away or sink the enemy that would prevent your team from getting that cap or buff.

[thornzero]

20 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

When looking at early caps with a DD...the important thing is not ACTUALLY CAPPING, but having your fleet win sufficiently within that first five minutes that it BECOMES POSSIBLE to cap.

You do not need to get into the cap circle in the first few minutes. I'll say it again for those not listening...a DD does not HAVE TO get into a cap in the first five minutes.

This is good thinking and it is easier to do in the mid-tiers. The 9o% of people in the high tiers don't understand this; nor do they understand torpedo DDs are not gun boat DDs.

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

So, Epicenter is still here only concealed in an even more shitty game mode.

Idk man, for me nothing beats the idiocy of OG Epicenter... the inner circle was much smaller and there usually was some island you needed to camp the whole fugging match because there was always red dummy doing it opposite to you. Playing DDs on Epicenter and being ball chained to sit in the inner circle was the most miserable experience for me in the game, I swear I rather play against 2 CVs and 3 Radar Cruisers than playing stupid Epicenter as a DD.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

28 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I cap with my CV when it makes sense to do so.

In random 12v12, that's mid to late game depending on where everyone is located.

In 6v6 or 7v7 ranked, that could be early game if the enemy team commits to only one side...

It depends.

When looking at early caps with a DD...the important thing is not ACTUALLY CAPPING, but having your fleet win sufficiently within that first five minutes that it BECOMES POSSIBLE to cap.

You do not need to get into the cap circle in the first few minutes. I'll say it again for those not listening...a DD does not HAVE TO get into a cap in the first five minutes.

The DD has to help his team win the battle over that cap...and either sink the enemy ships pushing the cap, or push those ships away so they can't stop our team from capping.

The primary objective is to deal with the enemy fleet...the cap is the REWARD for SUCCESSFULLY dealing with the enemy fleet.

Just focusing on the cap is the low skill play.

So, with that in mind, I don't think that a DD 'has to' grab a cap or buff immediately or he loses. No...he has to deal with the enemy team in the first few minutes so that the cap and / or buffs become available...or he loses.

Subtle, but important distinction. Don't throw your ship away to get a cap or buff that your fleet will lose immediately. Play to drive away or sink the enemy that would prevent your team from getting that cap or buff.

I think its an ENORMOUS difference though between a CV being able to choose if he wants to cap in mid to late game or said DDs that are pretty much forced/told to do so early on in the game. From my experience I mostly seen CVs cap caps successfully without dying in the end game when most of the game is decided anyways, its usually hard for them unless its an Essex with built in smoke screen to do it in a CV when it matters most, early to mid-game.

And sure, in a perfect world, if I play a bit passive with the caps at start and instead focus on just spotting for my team and screen torps etc I would love to see that have a huge effect on my team and the game but mostly what I see is BB players and cruisers either throwing away their ships in not so smart suicides or pushes or just wasting their potential on 10-line. So, for me, in my experience playing as DD main for 9 years I would rather have some cap control early on .... not directly at start ... but still early on, to just have those caps ticking points during the entire game instead of just hoping my team will come thru for me.

I cant count how many battles ive been in where we are 4-5 ships left and the red team is one ship left ..... but they win because they had cap control the entire game (because we played passive/DDs didn't get caps early) and now we don't have time to turn 3 caps in remaining time and they have 500 points lead .... does this ring a bell for you? Im guessing most players that have played this game a while has 100´s of similar stories. Games that should have been won but were lost due to enemy team had more points (CAPS).

So yeah .... caps and points matter and the more you wait the harder it is to take over caps and catch up pointwise.

 

But this is still 3 cap dom mode were talking about and it was Arms race that was the original subject, and in that mode its mostly down to this. Give away too many buffs directly at start = Reds grown more dangerous over time, heals up and get harder hits. Trying to go for the buffs early on to create same advantage for youre team = Usually ends with a serious crippled/half dead DD or even dead DD (within 3 min).

So how exactly does a DD "deal with the enemy team in the first few minutes" if he then chooses to not go for the first 4-5 buffs that spawn almost immediately? He just succeeds in a once in a lifetime play where he just nukes 3 ships with his first torp launch ... or what exactly? And now Reds have 4-5 buffs, so what then? Try and catch up by risking even more by going for buffs that now are also spread out in Reds base?! I don't really understand how you mean a DD that ignores the first set of buffs just magically will "deal with the enemy team" in a way that's even more efficient that owning 4-5 buffs that just ticks you stronger during entire game?

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

17 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

DDs that are pretty much forced/told to do so early on in the game.

This is a flawed statement. For reasons I've already discussed. Ships are not forced to get into the cap circle or buff right away. In fact, it's poor play to do so for all the reasons you mention.

What you need to do with that time is not 'play passively', but work to sink or drive away the enemy ships.

Do that, and the enemy either doesn't get the cap or buff, or gets it but pays too much for it and loses the advantage.

How does a DD help his fleet win?

By spotting.

By forcing cruisers to turn to dodge torpedoes so that their broadsides are vulnerable to high caliber fire.

By trapping the enemy DD into an unfair fight.

By killing enemy ships that push or over expose themselves.

In arms race, the best thing to do is position so that you can punish / kill the enemy ships for grabbing one buff. Especially if you can kill the DD on your flank...that makes buffs on this flank much easier to obtain for most of the rest of the match. You sacrifice one buff to get three or four.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

24 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Idk man, for me nothing beats the idiocy of OG Epicenter... the inner circle was much smaller and there usually was some island you needed to camp the whole fugging match because there was always red dummy doing it opposite to you. 

I totally agree with you!

But Arms Race should go the same route as the previous dumb modes, like Epicenter, Bastion or Airship etc, or at least be kept in a separate queue than Randoms for those who seek "more dynamic gameplay".

24 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Playing DDs on Epicenter and being ball chained to sit in the inner circle was the most miserable experience for me in the game,

"Let me present to you ...... Playing DD´s in Airship Escorts .....! !"                (for some reason this keeps happening to DD´s.........)

 

                                                     But enough about that .... they finally scrapped that mode...

24 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I swear I rather play against 2 CVs and 3 Radar Cruisers than playing stupid ".........." as a "..........".

Just out of curiosity .... and I know im on a bit off a rant now .... can anyone find another class than DD and another game mode to put in these boxes? Or is usually "DD´s" that comes up ... and usually with a bit variety in what situations/modes.

"I HATE PLAYING 3 CAP DOM MODE/AIRSHIP ESCORT/ARMS RACE IN A BB/CRUISER/CV" .... said no one ever... 

Same as how many "Why BB/CV/Cruisers die early" threads you see in comparison with how many "DD dies early". Or why are all our DDs dead already in team chat ingame...

                        I promise .... it's not a mystery!                       A mystery is rather why "Yamato guy" on 10-line still is on 90 000 HP and 4 heals when match is over....

 

So, to summarize. For a DD to survive in the face off stoopid game modes designed to kill them, little to no information from WG how to perform objectives without dying, in the face of radars, hydro, subs, all planes, CVs etc etc etc designed to kill them, in face off small kill boxes that you will sit in most of the games, it probably takes a Super unicum DD player like Flambass or a tad bit above average DD player like me to survive and most DD players at T10 aren't that.

Thus this will keep on happening, and will more of this added into the game the more this will probably happen.

 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

5 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

This is a flawed statement. For reasons I've already discussed. Ships are not forced to get into the cap circle or buff right away. In fact, it's poor play to do so for all the reasons you mention.

What you need to do with that time is not 'play passively', but work to sink or drive away the enemy ships.

Do that, and the enemy either doesn't get the cap or buff, or gets it but pays too much for it and loses the advantage.

How does a DD help his fleet win?

By spotting.

By forcing cruisers to turn to dodge torpedoes so that their broadsides are vulnerable to high caliber fire.

By trapping the enemy DD into an unfair fight.

By killing enemy ships that push or over expose themselves.

In arms race, the best thing to do is position so that you can punish / kill the enemy ships for grabbing one buff. Especially if you can kill the DD on your flank...that makes buffs on this flank much easier to obtain for most of the rest of the match. You sacrifice one buff to get three or four.

But ..... then enemy DD that just grabbed all those 4-5 buffs will do exactly ALL that you mention above also ...... but just for a WAAAY stronger buffed team.

                                            So ..... I see a flaw... 

 

But now I have to actually play this game so, have a good one! Im out.

Edited July 10 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

2 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

But ..... then enemy DD that just grabbed all those 4-5 buffs will do exactly ALL that you mention above also ...... but just for a WAAAY stronger buffed team.

                                            So ..... I see a flaw... 

 

But now I have to actually play this game so, have a good one! Im out.

LOL

No DD is going to grab 4-5 buffs in the first few minutes of the game...and if you let them, you are playing far too passively.

Your guns and torpedoes have range...you can engage an enemy ship that is exposed to grab buffs from the safety of your islands, smoke, or just distance.

Learn to use the defensive advantages inherent in the game to your advantage in the first few minutes. Grab an advantage, and then exploit it.

The game is far more detailed than just sailing up to point blank range and hitting the enemy with your sword.

[ArIskandir]

11 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

59 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I swear I rather play against 2 CVs and 3 Radar Cruisers than playing stupid ".........." as a "..........".

Just out of curiosity .... and I know im on a bit off a rant now .... can anyone find another class than DD and another game mode to put in these boxes? Or is usually "DD´s" that comes up ... and usually with a bit variety in what situations/modes.

There are many other instances that sometimes feel nearly as bad for other ship types, but the big difference is it falls only on DDs (and Subs to some degree) the duty to do Cap control... honestly is rather unfair, no other ship type has such a critical and evident role to fulfill. 

If you are a CL in a match with 6-7 BBs, CV and multiple DDs you are as screwed you can be in this game, no chance to exploit your Concealment, deadly AP raining from everywhere... the big difference is you have no urgency to "do something", you can sit behind an island and most players won't care... that's a luxury a DD doesn't have even if it needs to brave similarly horrible situations. 

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

You do not need to get into the cap circle in the first few minutes. I'll say it again for those not listening...a DD does not HAVE TO get into a cap in the first five minutes.

This is relative... if the red guy went in and got the Cap in the early minutes YOU HAVE to do something as the clock is working against you. Also it was your fault to begin with as you let the red dude cap uncontested. So you may not have to Cap in the first minutes but you need to prevent the enemy from capping if possible, that means if the red goes in you go in (unless suicide conditions). 

Also, if you are a capable DD player and you have a favorable match up, you'll want to go in asap either to put pressure on the reds or to force a 1vs1 engagement against the red DD before it gets supported. That's the quickest way to secure a match for your team: get in, kill the enemy DD, secure the Cap and deprive the enemy from spotting and screening... all before the 3 minute mark, that's your ideal job. 

If you are a mediocre DD player, sure take the cautious approach but a good DD player thrives in risky situations because they will overcome a weaker opponent and gain a critical advantage for their team.  

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

5 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Also it was your fault to begin with as you let the red dude cap uncontested.

I never said let somebody cap uncontested...

I'm saying you don't have to be IN THE CAP to contest a cap attempt.

[thornzero]

2 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

...but you need to prevent the enemy from capping if possible, that means if the red goes in you go in (unless suicide conditions). 

If you are a mediocre DD player, sure take the cautious approach but a good DD player thrives in risky situations because they will overcome a weaker opponent and gain a critical advantage for their team.  

The cautious approach is when there is a +2 tier difference in the DD match up; you won't gun him down. Then it would be ideal for the cruiser to get a salvo on that DD but the chances of that happening are nearly zero [the reds do this regular, seems like]. [When I play BB I try to get pot shots on the DD to help if at all possible. 1k-4k helps if I'm not on HE.]

So then if I am able to get him down to 1/2 hp - if I'm at 1/2 hp I break contact and try again. Once he's dead the cap is yours for sure and you can smoke up if you didn't when breaking contact.

I like to have the cap early and over the long term for points but a couple minutes doesn't hurt especially if the enemy hasn't closed on the cap itself.

[Itwastuesday]

4 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Would you think it was "dynamic gameplay" if you in you're BB had to give up all you're experience/skill and just push in to die? Or would you also be a bit mad? Its easy to write it off as whining when the stupidity don't effect you (ex. BBs sitting in corner just getting better damage for all the buffs the DDs died picking up). I know I dont care much when I happen to pick a BB and its Arms race because I know I can play EXACTLY the way I would if it had been 3 cap dom mode. Im usually just salty because I just wasted a ton of flags and boosters on what will probably be a short and shitty game.

That was the stupid airship railroad mode. Why, sure, I would like to drive on rails where everybody can shoot me or else it's autoloss!

[Verytis]

7 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I'm amused at the hate for arms race.

It at least allows for more dynamic gameplay by having MOVING points of strategic relevance...

But no, playing a map to a predetermined script because of the islands and the static caps is 'high intelligence' play...

LOL

Is arms race good? No...but it is different, and it does require more on the fly thinking than the other standard modes.

(Perhaps that's why people are so terrible at playing it...hmm.)

This guy gets it. Unlike your typical mode where it always revolves around controlling the flanks, the centre also plays an important role.

• Any team that is too busy maintaining the flanks will find themselves losing from a buff disadvantage or unable to stop the centre cap.
• Unlike the old epic-centre where the DD is always stuck in the middle unable to do much else, buff gathering is a much more impactful role.

There is also the element of controlled risk taking.

• Those teamwide buffs are powerful, but how much should you be willing to lose for it?

Anyone that played ranked would know a single buff is never worth losing a DD over. It's little different from DDs pushing regular caps early and feeding.

[USMC2145]

The problems I see with many DD players in tier 8+ are that they have no idea what ships out spot them, what ships have radar, and what ships have sonar. I have even seen DDs in high tiers who do not even know their own concealment range. At high tier they should have some clue about that stuff. Now that WG has put in the keep your ship on to next battle choice, I am seeing ships suicide more and not just DDs. 

[pepe_trueno]

my only real problem with dds is when they don't spot or attempt to keep enemy stealth units away, this game is all about vision control and when the unit designed to spot wanders off or sits in smoke you know the match is going to be a painfull experience with nothing but being permaspoted and attacked by ships one cant even see.

 

the vision mechanic has been broken since day one but for some reason WG refuse to fix it.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

8 minutes ago, pepe_trueno said:

the vision mechanic has been broken since day one but for some reason WG refuse to fix it.

Fixing it is a lot of work.

WG is allergic to work.

[SunkCostFallacy]

Ah! I just had one of those light bulb moments! Granted this is a bit off topic, but I figured it out because of this thread so this is where I'll post it.

I always wondered why they took Epicenter away because I had a great time in it.  Now I get it ... they took it away because Random players didn't like it. Ok, that makes more sense because none of the complains made sense when looked at from the perspective of a COOP Epicenter match.

Now back to the topic:

WG frequently run events which push a player to do things which are not optimal from a tactical/strategic point of view. Get X caps, detect X torpedoes, I'm sure we all know the types of missions.

We're seeing one such a event right now: The Personal Challenges for the early access ships.

The event pushes players to maximise BXP over every other consideration. And where is the best place to get BXP? Randoms.

So you are very likely going to see more players doing 'stupid stuff' in Randoms, especially when they get to the higher BXP requirements that you just CANNOT achieve in a COOP match.

But Sunk, what about when there are no such events running? 

Think back, Oh Oldsters, to when you were a young player. Remember Campaigns?  I know it's a long time since most of us completed them ... but they too represent a reason why a player might be playing for something other than just the victory or grinding XP.

 

Food for thought guys ... sometimes what looks like it makes no sense to you, may well make sense to the player who did it.

Edited July 11 by SunkCostFallacy

[Aethervox]

10 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Again, I push in with a CV...the difference is, I know how to do it without dying. Same with battleships and cruisers.

Knowing HOW and WHEN to put yourself into more aggressive positions and win the consequential actions is called skill.

When I played CVs (RTS times) I was pretty much always (95% of the time) moving my CV & capping when safe to do so ☺️. Very few CV players (even these days) move their CVs properly.  Most of you know what I think of the CV rework 💩 (one of the major self inflicted disasters by Wedgie).

Edited July 11 by Aethervox