Gouden Leeuw is actually cancer

[Itwastuesday]

/opinion

Big fuzz about it died down when the bombing was nerfed before release, and not many liked it. It was thought to suck. Now it has more bombing module and it seems to be a common enough ship in queue. It makes decision of cruiser (and somewhat bb) positioning a gamble before you know where it is as there's always a hurry to get into position before you're spotted and under heavy fire, leaving that position has the same challenge but worse. Doesn't matter at all to kite snipe ships, but man... 

Screw you for playing DM near caps like a good player? 

[torino2dc]

No tactic should be universally strong -- it's not a bad thing that Des Moines players learn that they can't monkey-brain next to an island every match. 

That said, Gouden full telephone build is way too powerful for how easy it is to use.

[Wulf_Ace]

1 hour ago, torino2dc said:

No tactic should be universally strong -- it's not a bad thing that Des Moines players learn that they can't monkey-brain next to an island every match. 

That said, Gouden full telephone build is way too powerful for how easy it is to use.

monkey brain? what other option do they have?

open water? no

asking for smoke from dds that wont give smoke, beacouse reasons. no

kiting? hell no

Their only option is countered.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

7 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

monkey brain? what other option do they have?

open water? no

asking for smoke from dds that wont give smoke, beacouse reasons. no

kiting? hell no

Their only option is countered.

...as if WG cares about game balance...

LOL

[torino2dc]

35 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

monkey brain? what other option do they have?

open water? no

asking for smoke from dds that wont give smoke, beacouse reasons. no

kiting? hell no

Their only option is countered.

I should have been more precise in my language. 

There are classic DM positions within 10km of caps that most of these players go to without thinking. These are usually safe and powerful enough to have a good game impact without needing much understanding of matchups and tactics. It is these that I am saying should have counterplay.

There are other islands that aren't within radar range that offer good cover for support fire. Open water DM (especially juking with legendary mod) is completely possible, she just can't be the only thing the enemy can shoot (see Yuro's video on the subject). She also has to be careful vs. 430mm+ battleships which her deck and side armor cannot resist. Are these options optimal? No. Can the DM still have an impact in playing this way? Absolutely yes.

TLDR the DM has plenty of possibilities if the default positions are unplayable, they just require a bit of thought. 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

Gouden Leeuw is actually cancer, says the OP, while displaying an avatar picture of a man who died of actual cancer.

2 hours ago, torino2dc said:

Gouden full telephone build

🤣

(If anyone who stumbles in is wondering what on earth this is talking about, it's to do with the logo WG chose for the Gouden Leeuw Unique Upgrade:)

 

I could post some pictures of actual cancer, but some of you might not be able to hold down your breakfast.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

3 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

/opinion

Big fuzz about it died down when the bombing was nerfed before release, and not many liked it. It was thought to suck. Now it has more bombing module and it seems to be a common enough ship in queue. It makes decision of cruiser (and somewhat bb) positioning a gamble before you know where it is as there's always a hurry to get into position before you're spotted and under heavy fire, leaving that position has the same challenge but worse. Doesn't matter at all to kite snipe ships, but man... 

Screw you for playing DM near caps like a good player? 

My Golden upon the purchase of the Legendary module went from being a mediocre ship with games usually ending at 100 K-ish damage to a 200 K-ish damage games Powerhouse. Its a totally new ship which I never seen a Legendary model do for any ship before. I usually try and push up at an island at center cap so my 13 km drop zone covers 2 caps and then I just wait for any ship to get spotted. Drop once to set fires and trigger DCP´s and then drop 2 more which sets multiple perma fires.

Great for chasing away Caps contesting radar cruisers and British and Frensh BBs takes massive damage and many fires almost every drop, a little less on Russian and US BBs.

Also since i have my captain half-specced for AA my immediate area becomes almost a no-fly-zone for CVs or even enemy Goldens airdrops.

And its also nice when you can Nuke a CV with 3 drops.....

Golden is also great at forcing other players to manouver in a way that is not so great for them. For example:

1. Forcing a crusier to gun it out from island cover, full broadside in front of several enemy ships ot face the wrath of 3 drops. 

2. When an enemy cruiser is going head-to-head with you, put a drop in front of him and either he eats all the bombs or he maneuvers out of the way exposing his citadel to you.

3. DD smokes up in a cap, put drops all over his smoke.

4. DDs smokes in open water and wants to farm damage, just aim drosp at his shell tracers. 

 

Pretty much Only thing that counters my Golden is Subs, which Golden has no real counters to. So, I just never go on the flank where the sub is or if there is subs on both flanks I make sure I have islands cover to block any pings or homing torps. For some strange reason WG will still not give Golden that is a heavy cruiser airdropped ASW even tho Hinden now have gotten it and also the US BB hybrids (so it is apparently possible for hybrids with planes to also have plane ASW, no coding issue there). But just like God .... WG moves in mysterious ways. usually no rhyme or reason. Im pretty sure they just forgotten to fix it when they fixed it for Hinden.

Edited July 9 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[Kynami]

Problem is open water for Des Moines presupposes the player at minimum has legendary mod, because without playing open water at your effective range is asking to get dev struck by ships with rail gun trajectories. Because short of a game change of getting to slot equipped abilities in an initial pre-battle window once you see the opponent ship line up its a very tall ask to presume they took the spotter plane. Plus your average DM captain won't have points into making the spotter plane come off CD 50% faster because the reason they mostly want to play that ship is its radar.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

6 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Drop once to set fires and trigger DCP´s and then drop 2 more which sets multiple perma fires.

Ironically, Co-op is an area in which Dutch ships do much worse, because triggering the airstrike tells the bots where it's going to drop, and they do all their sneaky insta-calculations to know exactly how much rudder and engine to put on (or take off) so the bombs drop just in front of the bow. It's almost more useful for herding them or getting them to stop! 

6 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Also since i have my captain half-specced for AA my immediate area becomes almost a no-fly-zone for CVs or even enemy Goldens airdrops.

My planes melt when I drive CV against bot Goudens. The bot Goudens' planes don't melt when I (not in Gouden) get attacked by them. Is there something I'm missing here? Are they unusually tough for some reason? 

Edited July 9 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Kynami]

3 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

My planes melt when I drive CV against bot Goudens. The bot Goudens' planes don't melt when I (not in Gouden) get attacked by them. Is there something I'm missing here? Are they unusually tough for some reason? 

2,200 HP per plane x12 is a ton of plane HP to chew through if you don't get good flak puffs.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

This is my build for those games i posted before.

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, torino2dc said:

That said, Gouden full telephone build

I thought it had something to do with telephone advertising about "reach out and touch someone".
https://rememberthatcommercial.com/reach-out-and-touch-someone/

Or perhaps a song with the lyric "reach out and touch me"?

Thanks for sharing the image of the upgrade icon @Ensign Cthulhu.  😄 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Wulf_Ace said:

3 hours ago, torino2dc said:

No tactic should be universally strong -- it's not a bad thing that Des Moines players learn that they can't monkey-brain next to an island every match. 

That said, Gouden full telephone build is way too powerful for how easy it is to use.

monkey brain? what other option do they have?

open water? no

asking for smoke from dds that wont give smoke, beacouse reasons. no

kiting? hell no

Their only option is countered.

Being a "sitting duck" at some island beach is not a ship's *only* option.
It's merely that some people think it is their only option.

Personally, I enjoy finding ways to send ordnance to hit ships that island camp.

I prefer to be more mobile when I play my Des Moines or my Atlanta.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

4 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

This is my build

As a co-op player I would ditch Adrenaline Rush to have Last Stand and Priority Target, but yeah, that's about as all-in as you can get.

What order would/did you take the skills in? Or did you just dump ECXP into Santa and take them all at once? 

I've picked up the Haarlem again because I badly want to make this line work, but it's going to be a long, slow grind to Gouden. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

50 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

My Golden upon the purchase of the Legendary module went from being a mediocre ship with games usually ending at 100 K-ish damage to a 200 K-ish damage games Powerhouse. Its a totally new ship which I never seen a Legendary model do for any ship before. I usually try and push up at an island at center cap so my 13 km drop zone covers 2 caps and then I just wait for any ship to get spotted. Drop once to set fires and trigger DCP´s and then drop 2 more which sets multiple perma fires.

Great for chasing away Caps contesting radar cruisers and British and Frensh BBs takes massive damage and many fires almost every drop, a little less on Russian and US BBs.

Also since i have my captain half-specced for AA my immediate area becomes almost a no-fly-zone for CVs or even enemy Goldens airdrops.

And its also nice when you can Nuke a CV with 3 drops.....

Golden is also great at forcing other players to manouver in a way that is not so great for them. For example:

1. Forcing a crusier to gun it out from island cover, full broadside in front of several enemy ships ot face the wrath of 3 drops. 

2. When an enemy cruiser is going head-to-head with you, put a drop in front of him and either he eats all the bombs or he maneuvers out of the way exposing his citadel to you.

3. DD smokes up in a cap, put drops all over his smoke.

4. DDs smokes in open water and wants to farm damage, just aim drosp at his shell tracers. 

 

Pretty much Only thing that counters my Golden is Subs, which Golden has no real counters to. So, I just never go on the flank where the sub is or if there is subs on both flanks I make sure I have islands cover to block any pings or homing torps. For some strange reason WG will still not give Golden that is a heavy cruiser airdropped ASW even tho Hinden now have gotten it and also the US BB hybrids (so it is apparently possible for hybrids with planes to also have plane ASW, no coding issue there). But just like God .... WG moves in mysterious ways. usually no rhyme or reason. Im pretty sure they just forgotten to fix it when they fixed it for Hinden.

🙂👍

[Itwastuesday]

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Gouden Leeuw is actually cancer, says the OP, while displaying an avatar picture of a man who died of actual cancer.

I don't particularly like how that word became common descriptor for anything painful and/or something with growing presence, yet for some reason it's more accepted than the usual poop-related lingo. Maybe I could call it a strangelet? 

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

For some strange reason WG will still not give Golden that is a heavy cruiser airdropped ASW

Bro, you just Made in your post an excellent case on why she shouldn't have ASW Airstrikes 

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Or perhaps a song with the lyric "reach out and touch me"?

I know the one about "reach out, touch faith" 

[Nevermore135]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

For some strange reason WG will still not give Golden that is a heavy cruiser airdropped ASW even tho Hinden now have gotten it and also the US BB hybrids (so it is apparently possible for hybrids with planes to also have plane ASW, no coding issue there). But just like God .... WG moves in mysterious ways. usually no rhyme or reason. Im pretty sure they just forgotten to fix it when they fixed it for Hinden.

I attribute it to a belief in asymmetrical balancing (the same reason Musashi and MA have pitiful ASW range - to make them extra vulnerable to submarines to balance their effectiveness vs. other ships) and an overvaluation of the fact that her HE bomb airstrikes are theoretically capable of absolutely wrecking a sub on the surface (assuming the player doesn’t simply dive, of course).

The lack of plane-based ASW and the extended burn time/CB dispersion on the tier VIII and IX ships (which have CA-caliber guns) are the main reasons I don’t find myself revisiting the line more often after finishing the grind last year.

Edited July 9 by Nevermore135

[pepe_trueno]

o no, airstrikes can hit island campers!

need more of those airstrikes, extend range to 15km so they can reach more campers but make travel time 20 seconds 😆

Edited July 9 by pepe_trueno

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

As a co-op player I would ditch Adrenaline Rush to have Last Stand and Priority Target, but yeah, that's about as all-in as you can get.

What order would/did you take the skills in? Or did you just dump ECXP into Santa and take them all at once? 

I've picked up the Haarlem again because I badly want to make this line work, but it's going to be a long, slow grind to Gouden. 

I would never ditch Adrenaline since its one of the best skills you can get and its makes you even more dangerous the more health you loose, and in this case a half dead Golden (say on 500 HP) can still be deadly by hiding behind an islands and just drop deadly airstrikes while some other teammates spot enemies, and then Adrenaline would be working in Full effect.

I can value "Priority target" on some cruisers but I mostly instead go for "Incoming Fire alert" because I will always count on most enemies targeting me when im spotted (maybe a bit due to my name....) so instead I value to know when they actually shoot at me more, so I can do a Crazy Ivan dodge.

Last stand I mostly put on really light cruisers like Colbert, Wooster, Smolensk etc, dont fins my engine/rudder getting damaged to much in Golden especially since im mostly bow tanking on sides of islands.

I would go in order of:

Grease the gears

Focus fire training

Superintendent

Concealment Exp

Adrenaline

Survivability

AA Defence

Gun feeder (this is great since most cruisers dont understand you can nuke them if they show broadside and as I said in previous post, with the Airstrikes you can control other players movement somewhat like a puppet master)

[Ensign Cthulhu]

57 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I know the one about "reach out, touch faith" 

Gouden is more about "I reach out, you meet God."

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

I know the one about "reach out, touch faith" 

A quick youtube search of the phrase "reach out and touch" should yield a few or more song titles.

Edited July 9 by Wolfswetpaws

[Unlooky]

6 hours ago, torino2dc said:

That said, Gouden full telephone build is way too powerful for how easy it is to use.

[KJ82]

4 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Ironically, Co-op is an area in which Dutch ships do much worse, because triggering the airstrike tells the bots where it's going to drop, and they do all their sneaky insta-calculations to know exactly how much rudder and engine to put on (or take off) so the bombs drop just in front of the bow. It's almost more useful for herding them or getting them to stop!

I'm at the Haarlem currently, and it became much easier against bots since it has 2 airstrike. What i found working is to use one, then place the second one between the first and the bot. Usually they run straight into the second one when they try to slow down to aviod the first ( best works against BB-s ).