Admiral_Karasu Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 22 minutes ago, pepe_trueno said: secondary builds demand a lot of points and in current randoms is in a bad spot because people avoid close range combat at all cost so there is no way this will replace standard builds. as said before is just a buff to secondary guns with piss poor performance so the rest of BBs and cruisers have the option to build something around them. Also the important part was not the accuracy buff but the national perks so a russian secondary ship wont play the same than a french one. how is radar + secondary guns any worse than radar + main guns? this game is full of mechanics that counters othe mechanics. no one bats an eye with torpedo lookout + vigilance making every torpedo have a 2.25km detection range but its the end of the world if a ships sacrifice main guns modules as well as many commander points to have a defence vs a yolo DD that got too close for comfort? I would support fully customizable builds, but I would expect all available builds to be equal in terms of what they give in return for the points/modules invested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArIskandir Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 25 minutes ago, pepe_trueno said: Also the important part was not the accuracy buff but the national perks so a russian secondary ship wont play the same than a french one The national perks idea is cool! 26 minutes ago, pepe_trueno said: how is radar + secondary guns any worse than radar + main guns? Because by default it is Radar+Main guns+secondary guns 😁 ... Too much dakka! Anyway, My point was Secondary guns by themselves are not a very significant issue unless they come paired with a detection tool... Imagine a Radar Schlieffen or Radar Napoli... *DD panic attack* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe_trueno Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 4 minutes ago, ArIskandir said: The national perks idea is cool! Because by default it is Radar+Main guns+secondary guns 😁 ... Too much dakka! Anyway, My point was Secondary guns by themselves are not a very significant issue unless they come paired with a detection tool... Imagine a Radar Schlieffen or Radar Napoli... *DD panic attack* Rhode Island would like to know your dd location to talk him about lord more dakka + radar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC2145 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Brawling in random mode was pretty much killed by CV and Subs. They have forced very passive play. I am hoping the changes to CV and Subs about to be tested on the PTR will help, but we shall see if they even make it to live servers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, USMC2145 said: Brawling in random mode was pretty much killed by CV and Subs. They have forced very passive play. I am hoping the changes to CV and Subs about to be tested on the PTR will help, but we shall see if they even make it to live servers. CVs have been with the game from the beginning. Passive play has occurred with CVs or without them. The idea that CVs alone cause passive play is clearly a playerbase delusion. IMO, passive play is a product of the games concealment system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC2145 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 35 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: CVs have been with the game from the beginning. Passive play has occurred with CVs or without them. The idea that CVs alone cause passive play is clearly a playerbase delusion. IMO, passive play is a product of the games concealment system. The CV rework made passive play an even bigger issue. Then they added subs. Both of these affected the concealment system. Subs are very hard to deal with due to their concealment and homing torps. CV rework made them more open to players, and they also affected the concealment system by making it hard on DDs and anyone trying to push. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 19 minutes ago, USMC2145 said: The CV rework made passive play an even bigger issue. Then they added subs. Both of these affected the concealment system. Subs are very hard to deal with due to their concealment and homing torps. CV rework made them more open to players, and they also affected the concealment system by making it hard on DDs and anyone trying to push. Exactly. Remember, even in games without CVs...people would complain that invisible DDs prevented aggressive plays. The problem is the concealment system...not planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArIskandir Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 7 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: Exactly. Remember, even in games without CVs...people would complain that invisible DDs prevented aggressive plays. The problem is the concealment system...not planes. Funny, the first thing that prevents me from pushing aggressively is not CVs, Subs, DDs or the Concealment system... it's fugging high caliber AP on my broadside... so, what do we nerf first? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 5 minutes ago, ArIskandir said: Funny, the first thing that prevents me from pushing aggressively is not CVs, Subs, DDs or the Concealment system... it's fugging high caliber AP on my broadside... so, what do we nerf first? Nothing. We don't have any power over WG balancing. My point is mostly that blaming planes for passivity is the wrong path. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navalpride33 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, USMC2145 said: Brawling in random mode was pretty much killed by CV and Subs. Subs at current meta, are a neutered ship class at close range... Those sub torps hit softer then a pillow fist at close range. Its so bad... They cant sink a DD at close range with all their torps (at least at mid tiers its the case), let alone a BB size ship. While there's no AA at mid tiers compared to high tiers... It takes a lot of attack passes in order to sink a BB ship.. If your attack misses or its blocked/negated by armor, its going to take ALL match to sink a BB brawling ship. IMO, brawling is alive and well, as long as the ship is not focused fired upon. Brawling ships have to many tools for which I do not agree they need (it confuses the player they're playing a BB not a cruisers).. I do not agree with a BB having 20km Torps.. OR radar over 10km. Nor do they need computer aimed secondaries. Brawling is dead for these ships because they have so many tools aimed at repelling attacks NOT attract them. The more WG power creeps these features, it is less possible for brawling to occur. (this includes Lethal AP Damage everyone loves so much). Edited July 9 by Navalpride33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 3 hours ago, USMC2145 said: Brawling in random mode was pretty much killed by CV and Subs. They have forced very passive play. I am hoping the changes to CV and Subs about to be tested on the PTR will help, but we shall see if they even make it to live servers. The passive play has been a "feature" (or *problem*) in random battles for as long as I can remember. The "12 versus 12 Battleship brawls" event quickly became a freakin' snooze-fest of passive play. Brawls! Where we are supposed to get within secondary battery range and make point-blank main-gun salvos! But, noooooooo. Those of us who wanted to have lively games were soon disillusioned by the "passive play" exhibited by 80% of the players from both teams (according to my recollection). CV's haven't "forced" anyone to do anything. 🙂 Neither have Submarines. It's a "mind over matter" situation, in my opinion. Frankly, I would prefer that the "random mains" would simply act as courageously as the Co-op 'Bots. The 'Bots never lack for courage and tend to play the objectives. If a 'Bot beaches on an island, it is emulating player behavior. If a 'Bot pre-emptively dodges torpedoes, it is using something akin to the *intuition* that good players utilize. If a 'Bot sends planes to where a player is, that's because the 'Bot has played that map so many bleeping times that the 'Bot can guess where a player is based simply upon spawning positions and subsequent pathing according to past performance averaged by algorithms. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) 5 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: The idea that CVs alone cause passive play is clearly a playerbase delusion. Well, ..... yes and no. Wows playerbase can be funny at times and different modes and their different required tactics tend to creep into modes, where they don't belong. When there is a mode, which asks for pressing W, that behaviour will creep into modes where it does not belong. "Anti Cv" "tactics" like "blobbing up" and giving up on individual action, will creep into non Cv games. I kept telling about this and for years, but alas, Wedgie being Wedgie, unable and unwilling to listen and learn.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Plane crashes can always be traced back to more than one cause, even if there is one triggering event. In the same vein Cv's (i.e their rework) may not be the only cause, for the sad, current state of the game, but it was the triggering moment. For multiple reasons and causing ripple effects down the line. Edited July 10 by Andrewbassg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 18 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said: Well, ..... yes and no. Wows playerbase can be funny at times and different modes and their different required tactics tend to creep into modes, where they don't belong. When there is a mode, which asks for pressing W, that behaviour will creep into modes where it does not belong. "Anti Cv" "tactics" like "blobbing up" and giving up on individual action, will creep into non Cv games. I kept telling about this and for years, but alas, Wedgie being Wedgie, unable and unwilling to listen and learn.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Plane crashes can always be traced back to more than one cause, even if there is one triggering event. In the same vein Cv's (i.e their rework) may not be the only cause, for the sad, current state of the game, but it was the triggering moment. For multiple reasons and causing ripple effects down the line. Oh, the rework (0.8.0) was a very important moment in the game...as was the year immediately following it. A massive overhaul that was released WITHOUT READING THE TESTING REPORTS...the deliberate driving away of the old CV CCs...the deliberate lying about the lack of reading the testing reports...then the admission that no, they actually did release something without reading anything... The release leading to things like the flying Shimakaze, with players scoring damage amounts over 500k....CVs AVERAGING over 300k damage per game... Six months in, the attempt to nerf CVs by buffing AA...which caused the CV playing population to drop IMMEDIATELY, so quickly and so far that WG buffed plane hp within a week of the update launch (0.8.5 and 0.8.5.1) in a desperate attempt to keep players playing CV... The constant here though isnt planes...it's complete and utter incompetence on the part of WG staff and senior leadership...and a complete inability to recognize or admit that something had gone wrong. I wish I could say that this behavior was new to WG at the time...but sadly, that is not the case. This is just when the lid blew off the reactor and everyone could see just how toxic WG culture actually is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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