German Hybrid Cruiser Not A Good Sign

[tm63au]

As a fan of the German lines finding out abut this ship gives me not a good feeling, I sense the beginning of a new sub branch in the making here.

First off WG said that they were only going to have premium German CV's which was fine by me, they reneged on that however the only saving grace was that they skipped tiers, Germany had two three quarter built CV's and WG should have stuck with that but of course dollars signs flashed in front of there eyes and that was that.

I would have accepted a Jade class premium over this new ship, before I started writing this post I went hunting for fabulous reference book I had on German Battleships and CV's but for the life of me cant find it.

But I digress I am getting off track

Anyway if memory serves me the Germans had all sorts of CV's in mind including a number of Hybrids however I don't recall them coming up with the idea of a O class Hybrid, I think it was a smaller class cruiser so I'm calling B. S. on this with WG as it looks just another money grab.

Initially I was was not positive about a number of the ship designs of the German BattleCruiser line particularly Zieten but I have happily eaten my words on the whole line its one of the best they produced for a long while in my view.

Now they bring this ship out which has me thinking the Germans had a quite a number of CV designs including hybrids and remember what happened after Kearsarge came out, I could be wrong I have been wrong before, time will tell.

Germany does not need and should not have a tech tree line of hybrids

 

regards         

Edited July 6 by tm63au

[torino2dc]

With all the hand-wringing about the upcoming German hybrid, it should be noted that hybrids, in general, are among the least-played ships in the game. I don't think hybrids even rank in the top 15 of the frustrations that are needlessly lessening player joy.

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, torino2dc said:

With all the hand-wringing about the upcoming German hybrid, it should be noted that hybrids, in general, are among the least-played ships in the game. I don't think hybrids even rank in the top 15 of the frustrations that are needlessly lessening player joy.

I've never thought hybrids are particularly frustrating to play against... it's only they 'grow old' fast for me. Once you play a couple, playing a new one feels like 'more of the same' ... to a much higher degree than regular ships. I can't precisely tell why but that's how I feel about them.  

[cheapinkc]

Hug your family because it’s clearly a sign of the apocalypse.  WG is the harbinger of the end with their ship releases.

 

[Verblonde]

To Echo others, besides a few specific circumstances where spotting may be crucial, I haven't seen any hybrids have a disproportional impact on many (any?) games that I've played.

What's new/different about this latest one (two types of plane squadron?) to cause so many conniptions?

[cheapinkc]

1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

To Echo others, besides a few specific circumstances where spotting may be crucial, I haven't seen any hybrids have a disproportional impact on many (any?) games that I've played.

What's new/different about this latest one (two types of plane squadron?) to cause so many conniptions?

Some people just have to freak out about everything WG does.  

[Kynami]

The only really notable thing here is that the base regeneration for the tactical torpedo bomber squadron is only 80 seconds. Which after you account for module and captain skills drops to ~68.5 seconds. Effectively this thing is a light carrier cosplaying as a cruiser. Every couple salvos it fires with its guns it can basically launch another torpedo bomber run. The other squadron takes over four minutes to recharge per use and so will only be seen a few times per match on average.

And sure, it has a bit over 18km on its six gun barrels... but lets be honest here. Its gun DPM is absolutely abysmal. And the flight deck on the back is a gigantic shoot me here spot. Odds are most players are going to try finding a comfy island they can angle along to occasionally lob a couple shells while waiting for torpedo bomber flights to come back up.

I have a Chikuma II. And frankly that thing is more dangerous than this thing can hope to be... outside of the special long CD air squadron. And if you are decent at playing with 15km torpedoes the Chikuma II wins by a landside because Yodo torps hit extremely hard.

[Itwastuesday]

Why not AP rockets, the special German sauce plane type? 

[Kynami]

1 hour ago, Itwastuesday said:

Why not AP rockets, the special German sauce plane type? 

The simplest reason for that is the extremely limited target selection that actively works on. Basically it makes you a menace to other cruisers... and lightly armored carrier sides. And pretty much nothing else. And after they already pretty much went ahead and nerfed Colossus and Aquila has some of the squishiest planes in the game? I don't see them wanting to open that particular can of worms where you would have a cruiser that only exists to grief other cruisers and harass any enemy CV the entire game about once a minute.

[Itwastuesday]

3 hours ago, Kynami said:

The simplest reason for that is the extremely limited target selection that actively works on. Basically it makes you a menace to other cruisers... and lightly armored carrier sides. And pretty much nothing else. And after they already pretty much went ahead and nerfed Colossus and Aquila has some of the squishiest planes in the game? I don't see them wanting to open that particular can of worms where you would have a cruiser that only exists to grief other cruisers and harass any enemy CV the entire game about once a minute.

Maybe AP bombers then? Torpedo/HR bomb planes is not very german flavour. This "For the KM cruiser fans!" thing has little german in it except secondaries and possibly a turtleback. 

AP rockets are one of the tragedies of the game. On one hand they're the coolest carrier weapons to use that feels like you're sorta doing something skillful. On the other they focus on screwing the class that is already screwed by everything, is barely played and doesn't even matter in the game. 

[Pugilistic]

On 7/6/2024 at 2:08 PM, Verblonde said:

To Echo others, besides a few specific circumstances where spotting may be crucial, I haven't seen any hybrids have a disproportional impact on many (any?) games that I've played.

What's new/different about this latest one (two types of plane squadron?) to cause so many conniptions?

Only in the negative sense, where people lose hard by playing hybrids as CVs, which is common. Ive even seen it with Halford. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

On 7/6/2024 at 8:45 AM, tm63au said:

German Hybrid Cruiser Not A Good Sign
As a fan of the German lines finding out abut this ship gives me not a good feeling, I sense the beginning of a new sub branch in the making here.

First off WG said that they were only going to have premium German CV's which was fine by me, they reneged on that however the only saving grace was that they skipped tiers, Germany had two three quarter built CV's and WG should have stuck with that but of course dollars signs flashed in front of there eyes and that was that.

I would have accepted a Jade class premium over this new ship, before I started writing this post I went hunting for fabulous reference book I had on German Battleships and CV's but for the life of me cant find it.

But I digress I am getting off track

Anyway if memory serves me the Germans had all sorts of CV's in mind including a number of Hybrids however I don't recall them coming up with the idea of a O class Hybrid, I think it was a smaller class cruiser so I'm calling B. S. on this with WG as it looks just another money grab.

Initially I was was not positive about a number of the ship designs of the German BattleCruiser line particularly Zieten but I have happily eaten my words on the whole line its one of the best they produced for a long while in my view.

Now they bring this ship out which has me thinking the Germans had a quite a number of CV designs including hybrids and remember what happened after Kearsarge came out, I could be wrong I have been wrong before, time will tell.

Germany does not need and should not have a tech tree line of hybrids

 

regards         

I'm guessing this is how the developers feel about it.  😉 
 
Spaceballs bumper-sticker, "WE BRAKE FOR NOBODY".

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

Maybe AP bombers then? Torpedo/HR bomb planes is not very german flavour. This "For the KM cruiser fans!" thing has little german in it except secondaries and possibly a turtleback. 

AP rockets are one of the tragedies of the game. On one hand they're the coolest carrier weapons to use that feels like you're sorta doing something skillful. On the other they focus on screwing the class that is already screwed by everything, is barely played and doesn't even matter in the game. 

I think your question, "Why not AP rockets, the special German sauce plane type?", is good food for thought.
I also agree with @Kynami's earlier answer.  The German rockets are not versatile enough.
Yes.  They're cool. 
But, they're also a niche-market weapon system.

Potential buyers may be looking for a more general-purpose aerial weapon type. 

I haven't purchased the Kearsarge, because I don't like her rocket planes.
On the other hand, I do like the Nebraska because her H.E. Bomb equipped planes are useful against all ship types (if they can score a hit).

Edited July 8 by Wolfswetpaws

[Itwastuesday]

29 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I think your question, "Why not AP rockets, the special German sauce plane type?", is good food for thought.
I also agree with @Kynami's earlier answer.  The German rockets are not versatile enough.
Yes.  They're cool. 
But, they're also a niche-market weapon system.

Potential buyers may be looking for a more general-purpose aerial weapon type. 

I haven't purchased the Kearsarge, because I don't like her rocket planes.
On the other hand, I do like the Nebraska because her H.E. Bomb equipped planes are useful against all ship types (if they can score a hit).

Yeah, I don't recommend Kearsarge when you can just get Delaware with far more practical planes and better guns. 

[Nevermore135]

58 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I haven't purchased the Kearsarge, because I don't like her rocket planes.

I think the choice of armaments on Kearsarge was very intentional, with the devs deliberately choosing a niche aircraft type. Not only were they testing the waters regarding hybrids in general, but IMO the real draw of Kearsarge has always been the 12 NC/SD guns at tier IX.

58 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

On the other hand, I do like the Nebraska because her H.E. Bomb equipped planes are useful against all ship types (if they can score a hit).

Nebraska is crippled by her main battery - only having six barrels with a 30s reload is bad, and it doesn’t help that as a tier VIII American BB she lacks any way to improve her main battery dispersion. Her 32mm flight deck doesn’t do her any favors either.

The state of the ship makes me a bit sad because she is by far the most aesthetically pleasing and “practical” US aviation battleship design in the game.

28 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Yeah, I don't recommend Kearsarge when you can just get Delaware with far more practical planes and better guns. 

Kearsarge has an extremely heavy broadside on a decently mobile hull. The only people I wouldn’t recommend her to are those that just can’t wrap their head around the floaty ballistics of the US 16”/45s. She’s probably the hybrid that benefits the most from playing her more like a traditional BB with opportunistic use of airstrikes rather than trying to cycle the aircraft on cooldown.

Delaware is without a doubt the highlight of the US aviation battleship line, though. She gives up very little compared to Iowa (firing angles and one barrel on the rear turret) for very useful planes and arguably better protection. The amidships hanger is notably lower than that on Kearsarge and her 38mm flight deck means she shatters a lot of HE that would strike the superstructure of other battleships.

Edited July 8 by Nevermore135

[Aethervox]

On 7/6/2024 at 6:24 AM, torino2dc said:

it should be noted that hybrids, in general, are among the least-played ships in the game.

&, so, Wedgie, I suppose, is banking on the KMS fan base to gobble this offering up (lol). Not me. I advise, now, to never give 'War Failing' any more moola 😁. 

[Col_NASTY]

All of the CVs and Hybrids and Spotting, hydro , everything has radars and people still want DDs to be aggressive and spot and cap.

DDs get FLAMED when they die trying to deliver all of that service too.

DD life has gotten even more ridiculous but no one says anything about us.

 

[Volron]

I'm curious to how well they will fair in Op's.  I'll be frank, I care not for any other mode than Operations and Co-Op.  However, while you cannot thumb your nose to the amount of players who only play Operations and Co-Op, it would be asinine to ignore the fact that the rest of the player base, which makes up the "meat" of the game, are on Random's.  As someone once pointed out, they are grasping at straws.  They need to make Random more interesting in some form or another as opposed to tossing in random "what-if" idea's.  Even the hybrid players (folks who play and enjoy both aspects of the game) are burning out.

All in all I will welcome the new line, but seriously even I question why they don't work more on the core game (Random, and to an extent, Operations and Co-Op) as opposed to adding a bunch of random ship types.

Edited July 9 by Volron

[Kynami]

3 minutes ago, Volron said:

All in all I will welcome the new line, but seriously even I question why they don't work more on the core game (Random, and to an extent, Operations and Co-Op) as opposed to adding a bunch of random ship types.

Ease of monetization basically. They have a far easier time selling ships than core game play. Ships can be seen by other players than those that have them. Ships can be used across multiple modes. Meanwhile something like a new operation is only useful to a significantly smaller segment of the population who will even interact with it. And beyond that it doesn't directly improve sales, instead they have to monkey with things to attempt making a few options in the dub shop good picks within said content. But again even there they will only get sales from people who don't already have a good answer. Which leads right back to why their most common form of new content is ships to sell.

[Itwastuesday]

27 minutes ago, Col_NASTY said:

DD life has gotten even more ridiculous but no one says anything about us.

Just quit DD like I did. It's not a thrilling challenge to suck it up and 'waste the carrier's time' or whatever. Play battleship. They get spotted anyway, they got HP to tank planes, they got AA, they have armor and heals to survive focus fire and they have enough range and firepower to do something resembling gameplay when running away from planes. 

[thornzero]

16 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Just quit DD like I did. It's not a thrilling challenge to suck it up and 'waste the carrier's time' or whatever. Play battleship. They get spotted anyway, they got HP to tank planes, they got AA, they have armor and heals to survive focus fire and they have enough range and firepower to do something resembling gameplay when running away from planes. 

I haven't quit DD but I am more careful and I have been spending more time BBing. You don't get much heat playing BB vs. DD unless you are caught in the backfield too long. Your damage and pr will improve to a point also. But, if you are a good DD player and you play something else, your flank might suffer. I've seen some goofy af things happen with weird DD and CR players just leaving a flank for no good reason. If you are a slow american BB you are sort of committed at a certain point and then you might get focused down when they leave. I might not be that good a DD player but I've never just left a flank for the reds to have for free.

[Col_NASTY]

39 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Just quit DD like I did. It's not a thrilling challenge to suck it up and 'waste the carrier's time' or whatever. Play battleship. They get spotted anyway, they got HP to tank planes, they got AA, they have armor and heals to survive focus fire and they have enough range and firepower to do something resembling gameplay when running away from planes. 

 

18 minutes ago, thornzero said:

I haven't quit DD but I am more careful and I have been spending more time BBing. You don't get much heat playing BB vs. DD unless you are caught in the backfield too long. Your damage and pr will improve to a point also. But, if you are a good DD player and you play something else, your flank might suffer. I've seen some goofy af things happen with weird DD and CR players just leaving a flank for no good reason. If you are a slow american BB you are sort of committed at a certain point and then you might get focused down when they leave. I might not be that good a DD player but I've never just left a flank for the reds to have for free.

 

They forgot to put the quit in me when I was made many decades ago.

I still get Krakkens and stuff regularly but I ignore the crybabies that hide behind islands the whole game.

It's AMAZING how many BB players I see hiding with the CLS now.

I've been an Aggro lone wolf DD player for years now.

Not going to let WG push me out of my game.

That is all

 

[ArIskandir]

3 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

Just quit DD like I did. It's not a thrilling challenge to suck it up and 'waste the carrier's time' or whatever. Play battleship. They get spotted anyway, they got HP to tank planes, they got AA, they have armor and heals to survive focus fire and they have enough range and firepower to do something resembling gameplay when running away from planes. 

Are you serious?   Usually outside some very specific squadrons, CV represent no serious threat for DDs... Whenever I want to forget about CVs I play DDs, they can spot you if they put up the effort but very little direct damage.

[Itwastuesday]

12 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

CV represent no serious threat for DDs

I'm not responding to this level of trolling.

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, Itwastuesday said:

I'm not responding to this level of trolling.

I'm dead serious... unless it is Skip Bombers or USN HE DBs, what else do you fear?  

(chat was funny on the last one)

Edited July 9 by ArIskandir