USS Johnston is probably going to not come back.

[Subtle_Octavian]

Let's get to the root problem: The burst mode is faster than the single fire.

Stock reload for one salvo is 4 seconds. It's 7.9 seconds cooldown for three salvos with the burst mode, averages to 2.66 seconds per salvo.

Might as well forget the single salvo mode exists at all.

Combined with fearless brawler (-10% reload, 0.79 seconds) and main battery specialist (-5% reload, 0.395 seconds), you get 6.72 seconds between the three bursts of SAP or HE. Every 6.7 seconds you pump out 37,500 sap damage.

That's 333,750 DPM. The SAP DPM of T10 Cristoforo Columbo is 324,324.

100k more dpm than Friesland, but unlike Friesland, you have two sets of 13.5km torpedoes, a speed boost, and long american smokes. 

You can run Halsey on the the ship, who gives 20% faster reload (1.58 seconds) for confederate (Damage 5 ships for 20% of their base HP)

If you are smart and target lower tier ships, you can do this in every game.

5.12 seconds burst mode, or 439,125 dpm. 

This is before AR kicks in. 

As an example, let's say you've lost 80% of your hp. That is 1.26 seconds off the reload. 3.86 seconds reload for the burst mode.

That's 582,750 dpm.

Like the real USS Johnston you will become a terrifying force in your death throes.

If you are used to lofty shell times, like on Colbert or range mod Worcester, you can push the max range out 17KM with the range module and captain skill.

USS Johnston is surely going to become a hellish ship to deal with when in capable hands. I feel this one will never come back after the initial sale outside of Christmas crates.

 

 

 

Edited July 5 by Subtle_Octavian

[Schnitchelkid01_]

Its possible but it might go down the route of the Rhode Island tbh

[Verytis]

I dunno why you're comparing a DD's DPM against a BB, or dragging Halsey into this.

You forgot to account for the delay between shots in the burst.

Next you're comparing a modified Johnson against a stock Friesland.

You seem to be assuming reload mod in slot 6. But then you talk about using range mod to extend it to 17km.

 

Also it's a fletcher, so iirc according to other sources, you'll hit the hard limit of the guns and can't actually reach 17km anyways.

Edited July 5 by Verytis

[Itwastuesday]

It all depends on how practical the dpm is rather than on just the raw number. Certainly this SAP burst is going to hurt other destroyers that show broadside, but I imagine most of them just win if they choose to angle enough and fight you. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

As @Subtle_Octavian surmised above, business is probably looking up at certain quarters.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

Or...WG could nerf the ship...

[Wolfswetpaws]

15 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Or...WG could nerf the ship...

They've demonstrated (in the past) that this is an option.  ^^^^

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

It all depends on how practical the dpm is rather than on just the raw number. Certainly this SAP burst is going to hurt other destroyers that show broadside, but I imagine most of them just win if they choose to angle enough and fight you. 

Will angling one's armor be enough?  🤔
For a same-tier DD, that act would mask some of their own guns. 
Hits to a DD's superstructure would still be effective, correct?

I'd be willing to participate in a test experiment, though.  Just because I'm curious.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

4 hours ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

Every 6.7 seconds you pump out 37,500 sap damage.

This is the theoretical maximum, and it does not account for shatters, non-penetrating hits, and shells that flat-out miss.

4 hours ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

That's 333,750 DPM. The SAP DPM of T10 Cristoforo Columbo is 324,324.

It's disingenuous to compare a destroyer which pumps out its DPM more or less continuously vs. a battleship which fires so slowly that it can only get off two salvoes in any given minute... and that's only if you start the clock just before the first trigger pull. DPM is meaningless in these situations.

Bear in mind with this comparison, too, that Colombo SAP will penetrate and damage things that the Johnston SAP won't even scratch.

4 hours ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

Let's get to the root problem: The burst mode is faster than the single fire.

Burst mode is always faster, or it wouldn't be called burst mode. The issue with the Johnston (to the extent that there is one) is that the recycle time is so short. That's also called a selling point. People have to want to buy this thing, or it's just another premium Fletcher.

 

Someone - it's generally attributed either to Benjamin Disraeli or Mark Twain - spoke of lies, damned lies and statistics. You can twist numbers to say anything you want, but do they mean anything in the context?

[Itwastuesday]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Will angling one's armor be enough?  🤔
For a same-tier DD, that act would mask some of their own guns. 
Hits to a DD's superstructure would still be effective, correct?

I'd be willing to participate in a test experiment, though.  Just because I'm curious.

Depends on the turret layout (and turret size and armor actually), but masking some of your guns for the duration of the burst to take very little damage and then retaliate with your full power when the Johnston guns are on cooldown could work. Admittedly saying "most of them" is a stretch since I think the most common T9 destroyers in queue are Yugumo, Kitakaze, Chung Mu and Östergotland. 

[Jakob Knight]

I might be concerned if this was a Battleship.  But a DD continuously firing its guns is a dead DD in fairly short order.  By the time Halsey would have a chance to trigger, the Johnston would be at the bottom of the sea, or be so close as to make no difference.

[Admiral_Karasu]

So... with the price being what, 17k+ doubloons is it an attractive buy for the long term?

[Arcus_Aesopi]

Ouch... I've weaned myself from large scale whaling... but...

Nah... still wouldn't buy it outright.  Remember:  they never removed Smolensk... and then also made a Black version so my concern about a wholesale permanent removal from the game is limited.  "Balance changes" are on the table. 🙂

Hmmm, 25K Doubloons is the approximate cost of 25 Wings of Freedom boxes with guaranteed drop at 30 (which for me would be the Johnston)... would bring 350-ish Blue boosts (probably the bigger overall value)...

Admiral pack offers more stuff that I don't care about for a lot more doubloons...

A tier 9 premium Fletcher is not a bad thing.

Or wait for Santa Crates... 

Or... just say no...

but... shiny!

 

 

[Unlooky]

12 hours ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

That's 333,750 DPM. The SAP DPM of T10 Cristoforo Columbo is 324,324.

https://shiptool.st/params?g=TP&ty=BD&n=ABFGHIJRSUVWZ&tn=10&tx=10&c=top&p=mb&rm=12&os=mb&op=HE_DPM&o=desc

 

Battleships have horrible DPM compared to destroyers. I had to scroll to #13 to find Conqueror, which barely beats Bazan and A. Regolo of all ships, and loses to Khaba by a noticeable margin. 

Edited July 5 by Unlooky

[tocqueville8]

Is this you, as well, or did you copy-paste it? In any case, this analysis makes little sense:

1. who cares if Johnston's SAP DPM is close to Colombo's? It's apples and oranges. Benham has higher HE DPM than Kearsarge: so what?
2. you're not going to get a Confederate in every game, not even close. And especially not with these ballistics.
3. you're simply ignoring that the three salvoes of the burst fire aren't instantaneous: there is a tiny, but significant reload between them, which dilutes your DPM

She's a perfectly fine ship, but we can't pretend her shells have the same effectiveness as Colombo's, or factor in a ton of perks (Fearless Brawler, Adrenaline Rush, Halsey's Confederate-related talent...why not the reload module or the Arms Race buffs while we're at it?) and put her next to a stock Friesland, or whatever.

[derf]

 

an interesting number when comparing ships might be

if there was a number for % of HP lost per minute when under fire...which of course there is not.

that would affect the calculations

Edited July 5 by derf

[Col_NASTY]

As Hard as I am trying , this is my best " Worried about this " Face...

[MBT808]

14 hours ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

100k more dpm than Friesland, but unlike Friesland, you have two sets of 13.5km torpedoes, a speed boost, and long american smokes. 

Slight correction, Groningen/friesland do have American smoke.

Also while the dpm may be higher theoretically, in practice Groningen/frieslands dpm is more usable as a result of significantly better shell ballistics.

[WES_HoundDog]

Burst fire.

Another mistake in a long line of terrible mistakes.