Destroyer and cruiser line recommendation

[Ferdinand_Max]

So for battleships I had finally decided on British and French battleships + German battlecruiser line, thanks in large part to great advice here. Now, I had been trying out destroyer and cruiser lines, and... well, I actually think I have DDs mostly figured out, but cruisers are a bit iffy.

Destroyers I have decided to focus on British and US lines, as these are great gunboats and Japanese line for torpedo boats. Oh, and the Italian line for meme value. With that in mind, what would be good hybrid lines? I am thinking EU destroyer line (second line in particular)?

Regarding cruisers, I am looking for something that does not rely on island camping for survival... sure I'll do it if necessary, but I want to be able to chase down destroyers and open-water gunboat. So maybe British, French and Japanese lines? And is there any significant difference between left-hand and right-hand British and French lines in that regard?

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

Russian and German cruisers are good for open water at least in the early tiers 6-8.

You want a cruiser with good range and ballistics on the guns to open water.

Hybrid DD lines:

British

German

USA

Pan-Asia?

[Ferdinand_Max]

Thanks!

[palestreamer]

Starting at T7 the German cruisers are tough and hard hitting. Good aa. My favorite cruiser line.

The American heavy cruiser line is second, radar starting at T8, ends in the excellent Des Moines.

French cruisers are good open water cruisers, fast and maneuverable, HE fire starters with the main battery reload booster.

British cruisers are like large destroyers, flimsy but good at hiding in smoke and firing torps. Pan-asians are kind of clones of the British but for me not as good.

Japanese cruisers have good aa and in the Mogami line are decent shooters. The Shimanto line is more about lurking and firing long range torps. 

Haven't played the other lines much.

Edited June 30 by palestreamer

[Asym]

43 minutes ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

So for battleships I had finally decided on British and French battleships + German battlecruiser line, thanks in large part to great advice here. Now, I had been trying out destroyer and cruiser lines, and... well, I actually think I have DDs mostly figured out, but cruisers are a bit iffy.

Destroyers I have decided to focus on British and US lines, as these are great gunboats and Japanese line for torpedo boats. Oh, and the Italian line for meme value. With that in mind, what would be good hybrid lines? I am thinking EU destroyer line (second line in particular)?

Regarding cruisers, I am looking for something that does not rely on island camping for survival... sure I'll do it if necessary, but I want to be able to chase down destroyers and open-water gunboat. So maybe British, French and Japanese lines? And is there any significant difference between left-hand and right-hand British and French lines in that regard?

When I joined the game, I went down the logic tree and decided I'd be an IJN main.   Why?  Well, I like a supporting role versus an aggressive, let's shoot it out, I am the winner;  not,  what I wanted, which always has been "we" are the winners...

And, I like torpedo warfare so...........the IJN fit the bill.

From there, I sought out the premium ships that "enhanced event task completion"...  There are certain ships that fit those event missions we always see come up....

So, pick a Nation.  Get er done and then, find those OP ships and call it a day.   I suspect, one Nation and maybe, 20 other ships.  If I had to do it all over again, that would be the optimal game solution at the least amount of time and money.

Edited June 30 by Asym

[Verytis]

What you're looking for is the Russian CL line. Aka A. Nevsky.

• Radar
• Flat ballistics, decent penetration and good range that allows cross-mapping targets.
• Open water gunnery instead of bow-tanking or island camping.
• Main weakness is just CA-tier concealment that makes it a poor scout.
• All its traits makes it more like an open water CA than actual CL.
• Easy to play as long range HE spammer, but with DD denial capabilities

 

If you want a slightly outdated but still solid wild ride, then my biased suggestion is Minotaur line.

• Enhanced acceleration and turning for open water gunnery.
• Stealth radar, if you so choose.
• Plays more like a DD gunboat than typical cruiser.
• Good concealment for scouting.
• Can still island camp if you have to.

Edited June 30 by Verytis

[Frostbow]

55 minutes ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

Regarding cruisers, I am looking for something that does not rely on island camping for survival... sure I'll do it if necessary, but I want to be able to chase down destroyers and open-water gunboat.

About the chasing down destroyers, the timing could be particularly tricky in a cruiser. I echo @Verytis suggestion that the Russian CL line particularly with the Nevsky can fit the requirement. The radar and hydro can give sneaking destroyers pause, in the same way your vulnerable sides will give you pause before committing to a push. 

May I also suggest the line that leads to the Henri IV. It has consumables that can serve your requirements well. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

So for battleships I had finally decided on British and French battleships + German battlecruiser line, thanks in large part to great advice here. Now, I had been trying out destroyer and cruiser lines, and... well, I actually think I have DDs mostly figured out, but cruisers are a bit iffy.

Destroyers I have decided to focus on British and US lines, as these are great gunboats and Japanese line for torpedo boats. Oh, and the Italian line for meme value. With that in mind, what would be good hybrid lines? I am thinking EU destroyer line (second line in particular)?

Regarding cruisers, I am looking for something that does not rely on island camping for survival... sure I'll do it if necessary, but I want to be able to chase down destroyers and open-water gunboat. So maybe British, French and Japanese lines? And is there any significant difference between left-hand and right-hand British and French lines in that regard?

I figure it will depend upon the role or job you want them to accomplish.

Things like speed/rudder-shift/turning-circle matter when you want to be nimble and dodge a lot of ordnance.
The usual trade-off for maneuverability is armor.  (Though, Cruiser and "armor" sometimes are a meme joke when juxtaposed, eh?  😉 )

The longer and heavier Cruisers might go fast, but can't turn well.
British Cruisers tend to be a little slower than their contemporaries, but often have a better repair party consumable.
Japanese torpedoes might pack warheads strong enough to sink a DD with one hit, depending upon the circumstances.
European torpedoes are fast and have decent reload times, but don't pack much of a punch.  This is a problem in Co-op, but less of an issue in randoms (where the mere threat of a torpedo seems to have a greater psychological impact, in my understanding of random battle play-styles).

Italian Cruisers can go fast and maneuver well, generally speaking.  But their consumable options are different and require the player to have a good situational awareness and instincts about what the opposition will do and when they'll do it.
I enjoy sailing them like Ferarri sports cars which were stolen from the guy who rented them, though.  🙂 

USN Cruisers lack torpedoes in many cases, but the trade-off is usually that they get radar or hydro (or both) or AA consumables.
With their low muzzle velocities and rainbow trajectories, they're often used in the role of "H.E. spammer".

Credit where it is due though, I like the Tokachi, the Atlanta, the Flint and the Chumphon for their quick ammunition reloading while I pursue "get XXXX gun hits ribbons" missions.  The Chumphon is tech-tree at tier-7.  The Flint can be had for coal.

Dutch Cruisers, as I learned from @ArIskandir, can be interesting AA platforms. 
I'm still exploring this.  But watching his youtube videos with Dutch cruisers is entertaining and educational.  https://www.youtube.com/@ariskandirr.8606

I like French Cruisers for their speed and versatility, but also feel that they are somewhat fragile (especially if they don't have a repair party).
That said, I enjoyed sailing the Conde' in Asymmetric Battles mode.
I still enjoy playing the Friant, at tier-3, by the way.

There is also the consideration of whether one intends to sail primarily in Co-op or random battles.  
One environment favors "alpha strike" capability and damage-per-minute.  The other may give higher priority to concealment, survival and detection consumables.

Spanish Cruisers are interesting and versatile.
While not over-powered, I've enjoyed playing them and they seem capable of scoring a higher than average amount of citadel hits.
Side-note:  The Canarias has an interesting historical connection with the Bismarck.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_cruiser_Canarias

Quote

During World War II she took part in the search for survivors from the Bismarck in May 1941.^[3]

My current Cruiser philosophy is "try 'em all".

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

My grind experience with the Pan-European DD's was years ago, but at least at that time it felt fairly enjoyable. Of course, you have to keep in mind that these are non-smoking DD's.

[Arcus_Aesopi]

I'd also consider working one of the unique commanders as you progress.  The best fit overall is Gunther Lutgens and the German Cruiser/DD/BB lines since his unique traits are so powerful and work in PvP, PvE and Operations as well.  I think he's the best commander because of the really good premium boats that he can fit in when/while you accumulate some of them.  Also the German "seasoned commanders" have very useful bonus skills, so the German line is really good overall.

On the Russian side, Nikolay Kuznetsov is generally considered to be the "strongest" unique commander with his near death regeneration skill especially in PvP battles.  The Russian "seasoned commanders" are also solid with their bonus skills.

French and English Unique Commanders special skills are harder to activate.  The French seasoned commanders have very good bonus skills (maybe the best depending on your playstyle), the Brits are good.

Putting the "whole" package together while you're building your fleet is one of the most difficult things to do once you get interested in "optimizing" your experience, but whatever you do you'll find it interesting.  I don't think anyone gets it "perfect" while in the middle of the journey, but that's part of the fun.

Fair winds and following seas!

 

[Kynami]

The split branches actually do have some fairly significant differences for those cruisers. The left branch for the French is more akin to some thin skinned battle cruisers with long reloads but big guns. They suffer from long duration fires like battleships. The right branch is more of kite flank specialist that loves spamming HE and has a funny button for moments where somebody gives you a broadside to AP. For the British the left branch is super light cruisers with smoke that are AP locked. Their right branch is an attrition fighter with strong heals but bad armor and exceptionally long reloads but high fire chances.

Honestly if you are looking for open water cruiser shenanigans my suggestions for tech tree offerings lean heavily towards the Nevsky, Henri IV, San Martin, and Castilla. Jury is still out on the Commonwealth cruisers, have a couple of the clan mates who enjoy them but they also tend to just go up in a cloud of citadel hits when looked at funny. So probably not the easiest ship line to actually use well.

[ArIskandir]

4 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

Regarding cruisers, I am looking for something that does not rely on island camping for survival... sure I'll do it if necessary, but I want to be able to chase down destroyers and open-water gunboat

So if it is Open water gunboat what You want, I recommend the Spanish line: Awesome range, great ballistics and dispersión, You get heals down at T7, fast-ish and even reasonable armor. 

On second tier, French and RN CAs are solid on Open water. Frenchies have a Nice tool kit making them very flexible. The British CAs have good healing making them very resilient. Both have mediocre ballistics. 

Russian and Germans are also capable open water gun boats but they present nuanced play loops. Up until T7 the Russian are very one dimensional and explode on sight, at T8 they get Radar and extra utility. The Germans are also very capable brawlers due to their massive torpedo armamento and decent armor. 

Italians are a league of their own, they are one of the most pleasant ships to drive but the SAP has its own peculiarities, having rather mediocre performance until You hit high tiers.

[Asym]

5 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

Regarding cruisers, I am looking for something that does not rely on island camping for survival... sure I'll do it if necessary, but I want to be able to chase down destroyers and open-water gunboat. So maybe British, French and Japanese lines? And is there any significant difference between left-hand and right-hand British and French lines in that regard?

Here again, for me, the IJN Yodo line really fits the concept of the DD Hunter & Raider line of ships.  Don't get me wrong, there are other Nation's ships that have better turning and other "stuff";  but, having said that, there is something about this IJN line that is simply appealing....  I play the Shimanto full time in Ops.  That line of cruisers were developed late war as AA defensive cruisers.   But, with 15, 150mm dual purpose guns, that load every 15 seconds with pretty good HE, DD's simply don't stand a chance.   Add in 4x3 long lance torpedoes that travel 15 K and produce almost 21K in damage, they are some of the most dangerous torps in the game.

If you want to hunt DD's and have some of the best AA defensive capabilities chasing them;  and, having torps that can and do absolutely beat the crap out of approaching heavier ships, I can't see a better anti-DD ship line.......  Of course, they are IJN and you have to play them smartly....   Gosh, my Division mates think I am a boring player in ASB's and Ops because I play one line of ships !  And, in the Shimanto, I am usually in the top three scorers every match....  BTW, it is really fun when Aircraft show up and simply melt away. 

Just what works for me.

[Itwastuesday]

6 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

Destroyers I have decided to focus on British and US lines, as these are great gunboats and Japanese line for torpedo boats. Oh, and the Italian line for meme value. With that in mind, what would be good hybrid lines? I am thinking EU destroyer line (second line in particular)?

Regarding cruisers, I am looking for something that does not rely on island camping for survival... sure I'll do it if necessary, but I want to be able to chase down destroyers and open-water gunboat. So maybe British, French and Japanese lines? And is there any significant difference between left-hand and right-hand British and French lines in that regard?

British and especially US are hybrid lines. To me Gearing is kinda bad these days (Fletcher is good though so if you don't need to go TX just stay at 9), but Daring is the best. I guess Grozovoi/Z-52 sort of fulfill any task needed, but both suffer from the problem of being too damn big (also Gearing fault). But man, Daring. There's never a situation where you don't want a Daring on your team, or don't have to respect it on the red team. 

Nobody chases down destroyers open water. That's just not something cruisers do. Not even Petropavlovsk. My take would be that only the soviet cruisers are worth anything, ever, so maybe one of those lines or both.

edit : Or you might go with Italian CA. You'll have no spotting tools whatsoever and are kinda limited in what you can do, but the things you do well are monstrous. Such as breaking spotted destroyers in half.

Edited June 30 by Itwastuesday

[BOBTHEBALL]

8 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

So for battleships I had finally decided on British and French battleships + German battlecruiser line, thanks in large part to great advice here. Now, I had been trying out destroyer and cruiser lines, and... well, I actually think I have DDs mostly figured out, but cruisers are a bit iffy.

Destroyers I have decided to focus on British and US lines, as these are great gunboats and Japanese line for torpedo boats. Oh, and the Italian line for meme value. With that in mind, what would be good hybrid lines? I am thinking EU destroyer line (second line in particular)?

Regarding cruisers, I am looking for something that does not rely on island camping for survival... sure I'll do it if necessary, but I want to be able to chase down destroyers and open-water gunboat. So maybe British, French and Japanese lines? And is there any significant difference between left-hand and right-hand British and French lines in that regard?

 

If you want to "Chase down destroyers" then you'll need a radar so Soviet CLs (The Nevsky line)

If you don't want radar then both French lines would be good in this regard, Spanish cruisers, Italian cruisers. They can all open water rather easily and can punish DDs quite well when they're spotted. 

But just from what I am reading, you want to chase down destroyers, open water gunboat and not island camp. That's basically asking to play Alexander Nevsky.

[Unlooky]

10 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

Regarding cruisers, I am looking for something that does not rely on island camping for survival... sure I'll do it if necessary, but I want to be able to chase down destroyers and open-water gunboat. So maybe British, French and Japanese lines? And is there any significant difference between left-hand and right-hand British and French lines in that regard?

There aren't many ships (if any, really) that are capable of both open water gunboating while excelling in the DD hunting role, especially when one discounts island campers. DD hunting is typically performed by island cruisers using terrain to compensate for their spotting disadvantage and ambushing a DD. 

All the lines you listed are adequate in open water besides arguably Minotaur. However, it should be stated that some may find Goliath, Zao, and Henri IV to be fairly boring, low impact HE spammers/damage farmers. Yodo is also pretty much still garbage so it's not really worth discussing. 

With this in mind, I can think of four lines that sort of describe this in order of suitability. 

1) Venezia (Italian CAs). Very fast, well suited to open water, and extremely potent against destroyers. Unfortunately, she has no utility whatsoever against destroyers (no radar or hydro) and therefore you may struggle to catch destroyers. However, a destroyer when spotted in front of a Venezia is losing anywhere from 2k (one shell) to 80% of his HP. Venezia mostly plays kiting and spamming SAP at whatever would take the most damage, but pushing is definitely possible in the mid and late games, and the engine smoke acts as a free get out of jail card if you need it. 

2) Marseille (French CBs). Another incredibly fast ship well suited to open water gameplay. Has a hydro to help with chasing DDs, but suffers from poor concealment and 60 second fires against HE spamming DDs. This ship has relatively bad sustained DPM but has the potential for incredible alpha damage. This ship needs to play more cautiously since it absolutely melts under sustained fire, but can create massive pressure on flanks and crossfires. 

3) A. Nevsky (RU CLs.) This ship goes fairly fast in straight lines but otherwise handles like a brick. Definitely an open water ship. 12km radar and good concealment make her extremely strong for zoning enemy DDs. Chasing is possible but not really recommended since this ship is best played while kiting. Although the raw DPM may not be stellar, the effective DPM is rather high because of her very fast shell arcs and incredible AP. You can expect pens on broadside BBs at all ranges, and citadels on other cruisers at medium and closer ranges. I've even managed to citadel a Bismarck with her once. This ship is another kiter and weaker at pushing than Venezia. However, her utility makes her absolutely worth mentioning given the criteria. 

4) Radar Minotaur (British CLs.) Probably the most potent DD killer (while solo) in the game. She's not as fast as the others in this regard and definitely relies on islands to engage safely. Incredible damage output, but a pretty high skill floor. Might not be what you're looking for. Has a fairly unique playstyle that I'd approximate to a radar DD in a cruiser slot. 

 

Do you have any more criteria to meet? That could probably help with choosing a line. 

[Unlooky]

10 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

Destroyers I have decided to focus on British and US lines, as these are great gunboats and Japanese line for torpedo boats. Oh, and the Italian line for meme value. With that in mind, what would be good hybrid lines? I am thinking EU destroyer line (second line in particular)?

Forgot to include this in my other reply so sorry for the double notification.

British and American lines are considered hybrid lines, although the British are gun focused and the Americans (once you get to Tier 9+) torpedo focused. Some would even argue for Fletcher and Gearing to be torpedoboats, although I don't agree with that. 

If you want another hybrid, you're looking at the Z-52 line or Soviet Grozovoi line. Neither are really a "must have" so don't feel too pressured to start grinding them. They're solid for Randoms but not really competitive if you care about that. 

Halland is a torpedo boat line through and through. Her guns are mostly for self defense (in which they are fairly potent.) 

Honestly? I'd consider picking up a gunboat line besides the memey Italian DDs since they're much more interesting and consistent to play, in my opinion at least. The Harugumo line becomes gunboats at tier 8 and are extremely solid. Plus, these ships are the cheapest in the game to unlock XP wise, so they're the go to for Research Bureau grinding. 

Once you're confident in your skills to gunboat, then you should grind the Kleber line at some point. That line is very strong but has a higher than average skill floor. Maybe as a fourth DD line.  

[YouSatInGum]

For DD's, to all novice players I recommend the Royal Navy line at the first DD line to grind.  While the T5/6 ships are mediocre, but starting from T7 on they are all good.  Especially Lightning and Daring.

The short smokes (and numerous quantity) help teach good DD habits while the hydro helps you avoid eating random torps.  Some may complain that mid tier torps are hard to use but for DD's most games are won with guns and cap contesting which RN DD's excel at.

Edited July 1 by YouSatInGum

[Itwastuesday]

5 hours ago, Unlooky said:

However, it should be stated that some may find Goliath, Zao, and Henri IV to be fairly boring, low impact HE spammers/damage farmers. 

Zao is practically an inferior Venezia in almost every way, but I'll say this much for it : it bloody sucks to have it pop up out of nowhere when you're a destroyer and spotted.

 

Not that I recommend it for dd-hunting or anything else. 

[Ferdinand_Max]

6 hours ago, Unlooky said:

Do you have any more criteria to meet? That could probably help with choosing a line. 

Basically, something that has accurate guns and good maneuverability (rudder shift, acceleration, and decent top speed). Decent concealment is a bonus but not a must.

I do have fond memories of playing Cherbourg on my old account years ago... probably the only higher-tier cruiser I genuinely enjoyed playing back then.

6 hours ago, Unlooky said:

Forgot to include this in my other reply so sorry for the double notification.

British and American lines are considered hybrid lines, although the British are gun focused and the Americans (once you get to Tier 9+) torpedo focused. Some would even argue for Fletcher and Gearing to be torpedoboats, although I don't agree with that. 

If you want another hybrid, you're looking at the Z-52 line or Soviet Grozovoi line. Neither are really a "must have" so don't feel too pressured to start grinding them. They're solid for Randoms but not really competitive if you care about that. 

Halland is a torpedo boat line through and through. Her guns are mostly for self defense (in which they are fairly potent.) 

Honestly? I'd consider picking up a gunboat line besides the memey Italian DDs since they're much more interesting and consistent to play, in my opinion at least. The Harugumo line becomes gunboats at tier 8 and are extremely solid. Plus, these ships are the cheapest in the game to unlock XP wise, so they're the go to for Research Bureau grinding. 

Once you're confident in your skills to gunboat, then you should grind the Kleber line at some point. That line is very strong but has a higher than average skill floor. Maybe as a fourth DD line.  

8 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

 

If you want to "Chase down destroyers" then you'll need a radar so Soviet CLs (The Nevsky line)

If you don't want radar then both French lines would be good in this regard, Spanish cruisers, Italian cruisers. They can all open water rather easily and can punish DDs quite well when they're spotted. 

But just from what I am reading, you want to chase down destroyers, open water gunboat and not island camp. That's basically asking to play Alexander Nevsky.

10 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

British and especially US are hybrid lines. To me Gearing is kinda bad these days (Fletcher is good though so if you don't need to go TX just stay at 9), but Daring is the best. I guess Grozovoi/Z-52 sort of fulfill any task needed, but both suffer from the problem of being too damn big (also Gearing fault). But man, Daring. There's never a situation where you don't want a Daring on your team, or don't have to respect it on the red team. 

Nobody chases down destroyers open water. That's just not something cruisers do. Not even Petropavlovsk. My take would be that only the soviet cruisers are worth anything, ever, so maybe one of those lines or both.

edit : Or you might go with Italian CA. You'll have no spotting tools whatsoever and are kinda limited in what you can do, but the things you do well are monstrous. Such as breaking spotted destroyers in half.

11 hours ago, Asym said:

Here again, for me, the IJN Yodo line really fits the concept of the DD Hunter & Raider line of ships.  Don't get me wrong, there are other Nation's ships that have better turning and other "stuff";  but, having said that, there is something about this IJN line that is simply appealing....  I play the Shimanto full time in Ops.  That line of cruisers were developed late war as AA defensive cruisers.   But, with 15, 150mm dual purpose guns, that load every 15 seconds with pretty good HE, DD's simply don't stand a chance.   Add in 4x3 long lance torpedoes that travel 15 K and produce almost 21K in damage, they are some of the most dangerous torps in the game.

If you want to hunt DD's and have some of the best AA defensive capabilities chasing them;  and, having torps that can and do absolutely beat the crap out of approaching heavier ships, I can't see a better anti-DD ship line.......  Of course, they are IJN and you have to play them smartly....   Gosh, my Division mates think I am a boring player in ASB's and Ops because I play one line of ships !  And, in the Shimanto, I am usually in the top three scorers every match....  BTW, it is really fun when Aircraft show up and simply melt away. 

Just what works for me.

11 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

So if it is Open water gunboat what You want, I recommend the Spanish line: Awesome range, great ballistics and dispersión, You get heals down at T7, fast-ish and even reasonable armor. 

On second tier, French and RN CAs are solid on Open water. Frenchies have a Nice tool kit making them very flexible. The British CAs have good healing making them very resilient. Both have mediocre ballistics. 

Russian and Germans are also capable open water gun boats but they present nuanced play loops. Up until T7 the Russian are very one dimensional and explode on sight, at T8 they get Radar and extra utility. The Germans are also very capable brawlers due to their massive torpedo armamento and decent armor. 

Italians are a league of their own, they are one of the most pleasant ships to drive but the SAP has its own peculiarities, having rather mediocre performance until You hit high tiers.

16 hours ago, Verytis said:

What you're looking for is the Russian CL line. Aka A. Nevsky.

• Radar
• Flat ballistics, decent penetration and good range that allows cross-mapping targets.
• Open water gunnery instead of bow-tanking or island camping.
• Main weakness is just CA-tier concealment that makes it a poor scout.
• All its traits makes it more like an open water CA than actual CL.
• Easy to play as long range HE spammer, but with DD denial capabilities

 

If you want a slightly outdated but still solid wild ride, then my biased suggestion is Minotaur line.

• Enhanced acceleration and turning for open water gunnery.
• Stealth radar, if you so choose.
• Plays more like a DD gunboat than typical cruiser.
• Good concealment for scouting.
• Can still island camp if you have to.

Thanks!

15 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

My grind experience with the Pan-European DD's was years ago, but at least at that time it felt fairly enjoyable. Of course, you have to keep in mind that these are non-smoking DD's.

I know. I tried both French and EU DD lines... not sure why but even at the low tiers the French simply felt painful while EU line is actually quite fun and enjoyable... despite both being non-smokers.

15 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Spanish Cruisers are interesting and versatile.
While not over-powered, I've enjoyed playing them and they seem capable of scoring a higher than average amount of citadel hits.
Side-note:  The Canarias has an interesting historical connection with the Bismarck.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_cruiser_Canarias

OK, thanks. They definitely seem worth checking out.

 

So in the end:

CA: UK, FR, JP, ITA, RU CL, ESP

DD: UK, US, ITA, JP DDG, EU

[Itwastuesday]

French destroyers are probably the hardest line to play out of any class. I only ever play them after I've taken my meds, had my coffee, a good night's sleep, room temperature at 21 celsius and drunken neighbour rampage levels at nominal. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

4 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

I know. I tried both French and EU DD lines... not sure why but even at the low tiers the French simply felt painful while EU line is actually quite fun and enjoyable... despite both being non-smokers.

Could it have been the slow turret rotation of most French DD's?

The Aigle was my first coal ship, and it took me a while and a lot of Captain's skills to make it somewhat "playable", because it could out-turn its turrets.
I'm fond of it for sentimental reasons (because of all the time I spent playing it in Scenario Operation Dynamo), but the turret rotation has felt like a limiting factor.
Other French DD's have slow turret rotation, too, especially if compared with US Navy DD's.

[aleksi111]

Regarding cruiser lines that can stand to open-water fight, I will start with reminder disclaimer about lines changing their feel as tiers change

 

So I'll mostly focus on T8-T10 here

French:

• Long Range
• Speed-boost juking
• MBRB
• Bit of layered armor

Russian CL

T8 is basic 152mm Fire-Monkey, but turns badly...

T9 & T10 have 180mm guns with great AP, Layered Armor & 36kts speed

All have either stealth radar or just 300m gap

 

Italian CA:

• From T8 onwards their SAP ammo actually works more often than not
• Escape smoke
• Extremely fast
• Venezia herself is exellent
• -downside in not having hydro

UK

Hated Albermale, she has stepped citadel & when I grinded her the turrets were bugged, DD HE could disable/destroy them

Drake is exellent, AP is nasty and Spicy

 

Spain: T7 &T8 only

These might be the best CA's for their tiers if you have basic consumable use box checked

 

 

[Ferdinand_Max]

2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Could it have been the slow turret rotation of most French DD's?

The Aigle was my first coal ship, and it took me a while and a lot of Captain's skills to make it somewhat "playable", because it could out-turn its turrets.
I'm fond of it for sentimental reasons (because of all the time I spent playing it in Scenario Operation Dynamo), but the turret rotation has felt like a limiting factor.
Other French DD's have slow turret rotation, too, especially if compared with US Navy DD's.

Probably. They just feel sluggish compared to European DDs, and thinking about it now, turret rotation is likely a big factor.

1 hour ago, aleksi111 said:

So I'll mostly focus on T8-T10 here

 

That is useless for me, I'm afraid. I'm planning at staying mostly at T5 - T8, at least for the foreseeable future. I won't be going to Tier 9 until I have at least several lines up to Tier 8... I don't want to rush things to begin with, and there aren't enough historical ships beyond Tier 8 to make it worthwile anyway. And those few historical ships that do exist at Tier 9 and beyond happen to be those of historical ships I am least interested in.

Basically, ships I am looking to collect are Iron Duke, Renown, Queen Elizabeth, King George V, Danae, Leander, Jervis, Hermes, Furious, Implacable, Richelieu, Algerie, Le Fantasque, Andrea Doria, Vittorio Veneto, Derfflinger, Konig, Gneisenau, Bismarck, Nurnberg, Hipper, Z-31, Z-23, Colorado, North Carolina, Iowa, Omaha, Baltimore, Clemson, Mahan, Fletcher, Independence, Yorktown, Kongo, Nagato, Aoba, Mogami, Akatsuki, Grom, Split, Java, De Ruyter, Almte Cevera, Galicia, Baleares.

So yeah.

[Asym]

18 minutes ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

Probably. They just feel sluggish compared to European DDs, and thinking about it now, turret rotation is likely a big factor.

That is useless for me, I'm afraid. I'm planning at staying mostly at T5 - T8, at least for the foreseeable future. I won't be going to Tier 9 until I have at least several lines up to Tier 8... I don't want to rush things to begin with, and there aren't enough historical ships beyond Tier 8 to make it worthwile anyway. And those few historical ships that do exist at Tier 9 and beyond happen to be those of historical ships I am least interested in.

Basically, ships I am looking to collect are Iron Duke, Renown, Queen Elizabeth, King George V, Danae, Leander, Jervis, Hermes, Furious, Implacable, Richelieu, Algerie, Le Fantasque, Andrea Doria, Vittorio Veneto, Derfflinger, Konig, Gneisenau, Bismarck, Nurnberg, Hipper, Z-31, Z-23, Colorado, North Carolina, Iowa, Omaha, Baltimore, Clemson, Mahan, Fletcher, Independence, Yorktown, Kongo, Nagato, Aoba, Mogami, Akatsuki, Grom, Split, Java, De Ruyter, Almte Cevera, Galicia, Baleares.

So yeah.

A good plan !  Rushing up into La La land (tiers 9-10-*) is very hard on patience levels....   From the IJN side, the Mogami and the Akizuki are some of my T8 go to ships....  As I said before, the T8 Shimanto is my full time ship for Operations and Asymmetric Battles !  

In fact, I always wanted a "WW1 / Washington Treaty" dedicated mode of play.........that have "equilivent rewards", modes and events....  I'd stay below tier 8 any day.