Upcoming Supership Jacksonville (Super Wooster)

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

Seems a bit meeh. SeaRaptor seems to be very impressed by the mid range AA?! Im definitely no expert but didn't everyone cheer in regards to Des Moines AA back in the day .... Halland?! Where is their AA today? Mid-range AA, do CVs like Naki even go into Mid-range? 

Its a "Super Wooster" but how many Woosters do you really see played these days? I dont think I seen one in years tbh?!

It has a "Funny button" but just like Wisconsin it has to "build up" for it and the effect isn't a Austin like Minigun as I aspected (to be efficient in killing DDs, as Wooster should), it will, when built up, get you better pen on youre HE shells on some of the BBs, like French and British....? But in all the time inbetween thos funny buttons youre pretty much a glorified Wooster ....... Yeeeeaaaaaaaaah....ehh.

I dont know, maybe some in here with more knowledge can change my mind? My absolute best AA ship in this game right now is my semi-AA-built Golden Lion, it usually nukes CV planes.

 

It feels like a side grade to Wooster at best, just like Clausewitz is to Hinden, but that is still a side grade to Hinden, which is a strong ship.

[BOBTHEBALL]

24 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Seems a bit meeh. SeaRaptor seems to be very impressed by the mid range AA?! Im definitely no expert but didn't everyone cheer in regards to Des Moines AA back in the day .... Halland?! Where is their AA today? Mid-range AA, do CVs like Naki even go into Mid-range? 

Its a "Super Wooster" but how many Woosters do you really see played these days? I dont think I seen one in years tbh?!

It has a "Funny button" but just like Wisconsin it has to "build up" for it and the effect isn't a Austin like Minigun as I aspected (to be efficient in killing DDs, as Wooster should), it will, when built up, get you better pen on youre HE shells on some of the BBs, like French and British....? But in all the time inbetween thos funny buttons youre pretty much a glorified Wooster ....... Yeeeeaaaaaaaaah....ehh.

I dont know, maybe some in here with more knowledge can change my mind? My absolute best AA ship in this game right now is my semi-AA-built Golden Lion, it usually nukes CV planes.

 

It feels like a side grade to Wooster at best, just like Clausewitz is to Hinden, but that is still a side grade to Hinden, which is a strong ship.

Yeah from what I can see it's mostly eh

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

16 minutes ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Yeah from what I can see it's mostly eh

Yeah, it really feels like a Tier 10.2 instead of a Tier 11, and for the same price tag you can bag yourself an Annapolis which is more like a Tier 15.

It feels like WG learned their mistake with Conde and Annapolis so new Superships will be quite meeh, like T11 Clausewitz, T11 Venezia, T11 US DD etc etc (cant remember the name), but at the same time they dont really wanna fix Conde and Annapolis ... not really (hence the small "nerfs"). 

Edited Tuesday at 10:26 PM by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[BOBTHEBALL]

2 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Yeah, it really feels like a Tier 10.2 instead of a Tier 11, and for the same price tag you can bag yourself a Annapolis which is more like a Tier 15.

Oh yeah completely true, it's quite sad how most of the new superships are quite bad compared to what you can get at a tier lower. There's so many I'm disappointed in.

[mashed68]

57 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

but how many Woosters do you really see played these days? I dont think I seen one in years tbh?!

I was just thinking about this the other day. Haven't seen one in ages, which even not playing tier 10 ships very often I play 8 and 9 a lot so I should have seen some. 

HE spamming while hiding behind islands isn't fun to begin with. But now you can't even do that with current cv and sub meta. So what does the line do besides explode?  

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

22 minutes ago, mashed68 said:

I was just thinking about this the other day. Haven't seen one in ages, which even not playing tier 10 ships very often I play 8 and 9 a lot so I should have seen some. 

HE spamming while hiding behind islands isn't fun to begin with. But now you can't even do that with current cv and sub meta. So what does the line do besides explode?  

But now you will be able to do that even more for a greater credit cost .... 😉 😃

[Unlooky]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Seems a bit meeh. SeaRaptor seems to be very impressed by the mid range AA?! Im definitely no expert but didn't everyone cheer in regards to Des Moines AA back in the day .... Halland?! Where is their AA today? Mid-range AA, do CVs like Naki even go into Mid-range? 

Its a "Super Wooster" but how many Woosters do you really see played these days? I dont think I seen one in years tbh?!

It has a "Funny button" but just like Wisconsin it has to "build up" for it and the effect isn't a Austin like Minigun as I aspected (to be efficient in killing DDs, as Wooster should), it will, when built up, get you better pen on youre HE shells on some of the BBs, like French and British....? But in all the time inbetween thos funny buttons youre pretty much a glorified Wooster ....... Yeeeeaaaaaaaaah....ehh.

I dont know, maybe some in here with more knowledge can change my mind? My absolute best AA ship in this game right now is my semi-AA-built Golden Lion, it usually nukes CV planes.

 

It feels like a side grade to Wooster at best, just like Clausewitz is to Hinden, but that is still a side grade to Hinden, which is a strong ship.

Worcester isn't a bad ship and a strict upgrade probably won't be bad either.

Unfortunately this ship is directly competing with Annapolis which appears to have superior effective DPM, superior AP, and a superior funny button. 

gg go next.

[Aethervox]

Thanks for informing us of another T11 Supership  Wedgie must be constipated 😆 again 💩. 

 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

14 hours ago, Unlooky said:

Worcester isn't a bad ship and a strict upgrade probably won't be bad either.

Unfortunately this ship is directly competing with Annapolis which appears to have superior effective DPM, superior AP, and a superior funny button. 

gg go next.

But have you seen one for ages? Why doesn't anyone play it?

I mean "bad ship" is down to each players opinion. It had amazing AA back in the day and it had most utilities/consumables out of every ship in the game. But I guess with all big Alpha BBs and BBs with overmatch and Naki´s and all other Superships, Wooster would just explode upon contact these days. It doesn't have that special Russian "Smolensk protection" where most AP just overpen.

[mashed68]

Guys. I saw a worchester in a random last night. It really happened. 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

25 minutes ago, mashed68 said:

Guys. I saw a worchester in a random last night. It really happened. 

Its like a unicorn ... you can now make a wish!

[Unlooky]

3 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

But have you seen one for ages? Why doesn't anyone play it?

I mean "bad ship" is down to each players opinion. It had amazing AA back in the day and it had most utilities/consumables out of every ship in the game. But I guess with all big Alpha BBs and BBs with overmatch and Naki´s and all other Superships, Wooster would just explode upon contact these days. It doesn't have that special Russian "Smolensk protection" where most AP just overpen.

Worcesters aren't uncommon the way you seem to think they are. It's right between Yoshino and Jinan in terms of recent battles played for Tier 10 cruisers. 

https://tomato.gg/wows/ship-stats/NA/recent?tiers=00000000001&classes=Cruiser&sort=&direction=

Certainly not rare enough for me to think seeing one is noteworthy. 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

57 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Worcesters aren't uncommon the way you seem to think they are. It's right between Yoshino and Jinan in terms of recent battles played for Tier 10 cruisers. 

https://tomato.gg/wows/ship-stats/NA/recent?tiers=00000000001&classes=Cruiser&sort=&direction=

Certainly not rare enough for me to think seeing one is noteworthy. 

Must be just me then. It also might be an EU/NA thing since this forum is mixed?! (Im playing EU). I hardly see any.

Edited Wednesday at 08:23 PM by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[Verytis]

On 6/26/2024 at 7:43 AM, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

eems a bit meeh. SeaRaptor seems to be very impressed by the mid range AA?! Im definitely no expert but didn't everyone cheer in regards to Des Moines AA back in the day .... Halland?! Where is their AA today? Mid-range AA, do CVs like Naki even go into Mid-range? 

DM is not an AA ship, not by today's standard. Try UU Worcester and you'll notice a significant difference in CV's willingness to target you.

On 6/26/2024 at 7:43 AM, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Its a "Super Wooster" but how many Woosters do you really see played these days? I dont think I seen one in years tbh?!

You've never played with me then. But really, after the latest buff the Jacksonville is significantly better, and a decent ship imo.

On 6/26/2024 at 7:43 AM, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

It has a "Funny button" but just like Wisconsin it has to "build up" for it and the effect isn't a Austin like Minigun as I aspected (to be efficient in killing DDs, as Wooster should), it will, when built up, get you better pen on youre HE shells on some of the BBs, like French and British....? But in all the time inbetween thos funny buttons youre pretty much a glorified Wooster ....... Yeeeeaaaaaaaaah....ehh.

The problem has never been about Worcester vs DDs. It's about being shafted by CAs and BBs.

Worcester has the DPM but not the pen, because most new T10s nowadays have various forms of improved armour.

The extra pen from the "funny button" massively addresses this problem, letting you farm down ships like Petro.

This actually makes Jacksonville one of the better CLs, because it isn't obsessed with hunting loliboats like some pedo.

Edited Thursday at 05:06 AM by Verytis

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

10 hours ago, Verytis said:

DM is not an AA ship, not by today's standard. Try UU Worcester and you'll notice a significant difference in CV's willingness to target you.

 

According to SeaRaptor both DM and Halland are just as great AA boats as they ever been, and hes a CC with tons of followers, but Im not a stats guy, I never run tests in training rooms etc, but I dont believe this, I think both these are just shadows of what they once was in regards to AA area denial. 

10 hours ago, Verytis said:

You've never played with me then. But really, after the latest buff the Jacksonville is significantly better, and a decent ship imo.

My feeling is that a "Decent ship" I can find in T10 Tech tree, ships like Goliat, Venezia, Hinden, Jinan. Its not something that encourage me to take on the T11 MM and extra service cost/loss of credits.

10 hours ago, Verytis said:

The problem has never been about Worcester vs DDs. It's about being shafted by CAs and BBs.

Worcester has the DPM but not the pen, because most new T10s nowadays have various forms of improved armour.

The extra pen from the "funny button" massively addresses this problem, letting you farm down ships like Petro.

I just felt like its to weak of a buff in comparison to its counterparts (Conde, Annapolis etc), having it being forced to build up Funnybutton in a ship where each salvo has potential to end you if you get spotted and wrong BB looks at you, to just get a minor buff to armor pen that helps against less then half nations BBs. What if you get a match with no French or British BBs?

Sure you can pen some bow tanking Petro, but I can do that in Henri V, Hinden and a lot others.

Some will probably love to get this ship, I just see no point in it. 

10 hours ago, Verytis said:

This actually makes Jacksonville one of the better CLs, because it isn't obsessed with hunting loliboats like some pedo.

That said, hunting Loliboats like a pedo wins games. Just another HE spamming cruiser that refuse to use its utilities at the caps (Radar, hydro, AA bubble), well game already has a lot of them at T10 that does that even better for a cheaper price.

Edited Thursday at 03:30 PM by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[Montrala]

On 6/25/2024 at 11:43 PM, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Mid-range AA, do CVs like Naki even go into Mid-range? 

In case of Halland (and to some extend Smaland and Ragnar) if not spotted you can AA-trap Naki and obliterate squadron if not recalled fast enough. Then, usually Naki player will avoid area. But if spotted good Naki player will just take skip bombers and just nuke you back to port.

[Itwastuesday]

On 6/26/2024 at 12:43 AM, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

It has a "Funny button" but just like Wisconsin it has to "build up" for it and the effect isn't a Austin like Minigun as I aspected (to be efficient in killing DDs, as Wooster should), it will, when built up, get you better pen on youre HE shells on some of the BBs, like French and British....? 

This is because the role WG wants all cruisers to fulfill is to farm slow useless weak healable brainless unnecessary HE damage on pushing battleships. And if the battleships decide to not push then cruiser is supposed to do nothing. 

[Verytis]

16 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

According to SeaRaptor both DM and Halland are just as great AA boats as they ever been, and hes a CC with tons of followers, but Im not a stats guy, I never run tests in training rooms etc, but I dont believe this, I think both these are just shadows of what they once was in regards to AA area denial. 

If you want AA "area denial", it'd make sense to go for a ship with bigger AA range. Aka not a DM or Halland. Especially against likes of Nakimov.

16 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I just felt like its to weak of a buff in comparison to its counterparts (Conde, Annapolis etc), having it being forced to build up Funnybutton in a ship where each salvo has potential to end you if you get spotted and wrong BB looks at you, to just get a minor buff to armor pen that helps against less then half nations BBs. What if you get a match with no French or British BBs?

Most ships have the potential to die if a BB looks at you at the wrong time. In the modern meta of 457mm, the likes of DM and Hinden are not exempted.

I don't know why I still have to correct this funny misconception that it somehow only applies to ships with specific calibre guns.

Jacksonville needing sustained fire to charge up, is little different from a Worcester needing sustained fire to farm targets.

Also the funny button has since been buffed. It's now +40% HE pen, meaning it can pen 40mm. This includes US BB, and most improved decks of various CAs.

16 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

That said, hunting Loliboats like a pedo wins games. Just another HE spamming cruiser that refuse to use its utilities at the caps (Radar, hydro, AA bubble), well game already has a lot of them at T10 that does that even better for a cheaper price.

A DD without any support behind it is irrelevant. Likewise, killing a DD won't halt an armoured push already underway.

Tools like Radar, planes and RPF are all means of spotting control besides reliance on DDs.

Killing DDs in a Minotaur is funny, but if you want to carry you also need to be able to kite Ohios and GKs to death.

Edited Friday at 07:47 AM by Verytis

[Captain_82]

On 6/25/2024 at 11:43 PM, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Seems a bit meeh. SeaRaptor seems to be very impressed by the mid range AA?! Im definitely no expert but didn't everyone cheer in regards to Des Moines AA back in the day

 

I was under the impression that back in the day the pre-nerf (range...) Wooster had the most powerful AA capabilities.

Haven`t touched mine in ages though.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

4 hours ago, Verytis said:

Most ships have the potential to die if a BB looks at you at the wrong time. In the modern meta of 457mm, the likes of DM and Hinden are not exempted.

I don't know why I still have to correct this funny misconception that it somehow only applies to ships with specific calibre guns.

That is true, but if we take Wooster I will compare it to its T10 counterparts in both positioning and playstyle. Hinden and Henri can fire spam quite comfortably angle kiting from long range and with its German turtle back and Frensh magical space armor you dont, with basic awareness and experience have to fear to much, while Wooster with its shorter range, looftly shell arcs and cap contesting abilities (radar, hydro, AA) usually sits in middle of the map hugging islands where it can firespam back-lining enemy BBs and support with radar, but with its somewhat lacking armor it takes a huge risk if its spotted and any BB or heavy cruiser like Henri for that matter spots him. 

So, I just feel that with all changes coming into tha game lately, Subs, Elbing, hybrid BBs, all new overmatching BBs etc etc, its a hard playstyle to manage. And if someone would like to play Jackson like a long range, open water fire spamming cruiser there is just so many others at T10 that does it so much better, safer and for a lesser cost.

I also feel, investing in a ship class thats will be spotted majority of the time, much down to an AA gimmick, feels wrong these days when a HE salvo from a Thunderer, Conqueror, St.Vincent or any of a number of different ships will nuke most of youre AA anyways.

 

4 hours ago, Verytis said:

Jacksonville needing sustained fire to charge up, is little different from a Worcester needing sustained fire to farm targets.

Also the funny button has since been buffed. It's now +40% HE pen, meaning it can pen 40mm. This includes US BB, and most improved decks of various CAs.

I do believe that both Jackson and Wooster needs sustained fire to farm targets, differens being that Jackson also need to build up a funny button to get good damage output for 40 seconds, while Wooster can be very efficient against DDs in caps and are more reliant on getting fires on BBs for damage. 

 

4 hours ago, Verytis said:

A DD without any support behind it is irrelevant. Likewise, killing a DD won't halt an armoured push already underway.

Tools like Radar, planes and RPF are all means of spotting control besides reliance on DDs.

Killing DDs in a Minotaur is funny, but if you want to carry you also need to be able to kite Ohios and GKs to death.

I dont agree with you, my experience is that most T10 BBs gets very hesitant to push when their DDs and spotting dies.

Tools like radar, planes and RPF is heavily reliant on players actually have ships with that on the flank where DDs die. And a 20-ish second radar cant really compare to a constant spotting and screening DD in front of you're push. RPF is also very confusing if you face both a DD and a sub on the flank since it will be swinging back and forth constant depending on if sub is surfaced or not. Planes are only efficient towards DDs, they are useless against subs.

 

1 hour ago, Captain_82 said:

 

I was under the impression that back in the day the pre-nerf (range...) Wooster had the most powerful AA capabilities.

Haven`t touched mine in ages though.

I think it had upon release, but long before that, 2015 when the game came out DM was the OG AA ship/monster and no CV player wanted to even go close to one. But everything in this game changes, I for one thinks Hallands AA is not really what it used to be. So im wondering, especially also with the upcoming balancing changes to CV spotting, AA etc etc, how long Jacksonvilles AA will be relevant. 

[Verytis]

15 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

That is true, but if we take Wooster I will compare it to its T10 counterparts in both positioning and playstyle. Hinden and Henri can fire spam quite comfortably angle kiting from long range and with its German turtle back and Frensh magical space armor you dont, with basic awareness and experience have to fear to much, while Wooster with its shorter range, looftly shell arcs and cap contesting abilities (radar, hydro, AA) usually sits in middle of the map hugging islands where it can firespam back-lining enemy BBs and support with radar, but with its somewhat lacking armor it takes a huge risk if its spotted and any BB or heavy cruiser like Henri for that matter spots him. 

So, I just feel that with all changes coming into tha game lately, Subs, Elbing, hybrid BBs, all new overmatching BBs etc etc, its a hard playstyle to manage. And if someone would like to play Jackson like a long range, open water fire spamming cruiser there is just so many others at T10 that does it so much better, safer and for a lesser cost.

I also feel, investing in a ship class thats will be spotted majority of the time, much down to an AA gimmick, feels wrong these days when a HE salvo from a Thunderer, Conqueror, St.Vincent or any of a number of different ships will nuke most of youre AA anyways.

Having cap contesting capabilities doesn't necessary mean you must play mid-range. It merely gives you options. If it is too dangerous you can either wait, or focus on long range farming.

Worcester has 16.7km range. The ballistics are poor, but they're enough for farming BBs. What those shells actually struggle against are CAs, not BBs. And while Hinden and Henri benefit from armour against BBs, CLs benefit from being smaller and more maneuverable.

As a CL you also have concealment advantage, so you shouldn't be spotted unless you're prepared. Which ironically means that the threat is more often the DD, but this is where your radar comes in. That just leaves the newer powercreeping CAs like Napoli which keeps encroaching into CL concealment ranges.

Also, your long range AA is tied to your DP main guns, which rarely break. Although ships like Thunderer and St Vincent are more inclined to shoot AP at you anyways.

16 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I do believe that both Jackson and Wooster needs sustained fire to farm targets, differens being that Jackson also need to build up a funny button to get good damage output for 40 seconds, while Wooster can be very efficient against DDs in caps and are more reliant on getting fires on BBs for damage. 

Both Worcester and Jackson are excellent fire starters. The funny button just gives Jackson a means of doing direct dmg when you really need it. With 400k HE DPM and fires, you don't want to be caught bowtanking while it pens your entire upper hull.

And I want to point that unlike Conde/Annapolis burst fires, which gives immediate dmg but puts you into a long CD, Jackson's combat instructions increases your effective DPM.

16 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I dont agree with you, my experience is that most T10 BBs gets very hesitant to push when their DDs and spotting dies.

Tools like radar, planes and RPF is heavily reliant on players actually have ships with that on the flank where DDs die. And a 20-ish second radar cant really compare to a constant spotting and screening DD in front of you're push. RPF is also very confusing if you face both a DD and a sub on the flank since it will be swinging back and forth constant depending on if sub is surfaced or not. Planes are only efficient towards DDs, they are useless against subs.

I rather not use the "average player" as a standard when they, according to forum itself, struggle to even know their own ship

RPF is not confusing, if that sub keeps playing dolphin for no reason, you're effectively locating 2 ships at once.

Again, being being perma-spotted is not necessarily a problem, if there is no weight behind it. You just need to keep zoning the DD such that it cannot meaningfully contribute to it's team.

Any ship can "spot" but if your spotting counter isn't rising, then you aren't actually doing anything. Either no one is shooting your targets, or both sides are already in a full slugfest. This is why most DDs need to also shoot, especially in smaller formats like ranked.

[hipcanuck]

On 6/25/2024 at 6:43 PM, mashed68 said:

I was just thinking about this the other day. Haven't seen one in ages, which even not playing tier 10 ships very often I play 8 and 9 a lot so I should have seen some. 

HE spamming while hiding behind islands isn't fun to begin with. But now you can't even do that with current cv and sub meta. So what does the line do besides explode?  

Wooster can be pretty good in open water but.... you have to fight at max range, you gotta change course every 27 seconds if you are fighting a BB and every 10 or so if fighting another cruiser. 10 seconds isnt really enough to get you out of harms way so fighting cruisers should be avoided if possible