Musings on Progression as F2P

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

Did my one game tonight in the Aviere before bed...

Only a 10 point captain, and I've only played my Aviere three previous times.

I have less than 500 total games in DDs.

I topped the team easily on a decent win.

I shouldn't be doing well in DDs, according to all the guys saying that experience is this amazing thing. But it's not when randoms is, well...random.

I'm not experienced with DD play. Remember, less than a thousand DD games TOTAL.

The playerbase really is this bad now. None of the kills I got were random or lucky.

Feel free to review the replay and let me know of things to improve. As I said, I'm not very experienced with DDs yet.

 

20240622_234555_PISD106-Aviere_13_OC_new_dawn.wowsreplay

[Gnirf]

12 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I can't talk for other people, just my own experience as F2P and the reasons behind it...

First and foremost is I have a very long list of priority expenses, I simply don't have spare money to invest in WoWS even if I wanted to.

Second is I really don't want to invest in WoWS because they don't offer anything I find valuable at the prices they are asking, the 'goods' are too expensive (at least for me)

Third, investing into WoWS won't translate into improving or expanding my experience of the game. Most of the things I could purchase are either available for free or actually shorten the 'shelf life' of the game by making me reach the 'game over' screen sooner.

Fourth, if I were to invest money on 'entertainment', there's many many other options that would grant me a better more thorough return and satisfaction for my investment. That's generally reserved for 'family entertainment', any money I invest in 'solo entertainment' would come out from 'family entertainment' funds. 

Fifth, the intrinsic added value of further investing in the game is not as attractive as investing elsewhere, the same $50 would net me a brand new AAA title... instead of 'more of the same'

Look, I have no problem with players reasoning like you do except for premium time. Players have also a time issue with all the other family points you make. Missions tends to be easier with Premium time, far less time needed for 3 daily containers etc. The yearly daily Premium 50% off is IMO if you play a resonable amount worth it.

Time/rewards give a far better experience. And many F2P players reasoning with AAA title. But how many hours will a average AAA title get you?

I have spent during the soon 9 years maybe 6-8.000 hours at least. That is if 30-40 hours is expected from a game 200 games.

Now for those who thinks that these figuires is absurd yes I am 57 and living by myself. Naturally I would have played almost nothing if my situation have been different.

But now I am comparing me with F2P players that play a lot and have reached the high tiers. Somewhere goes a line between time/cost and rewards that makes Premium time IMO irrational not to take, where the F2P concept is more an ideology than rational choice.

Now i have only spent a few discounted premium time packages, as I spent a lot of santas etc and other free sources of premium days so I have over 900 days and will probably not have to buy anything in the games life. But I still do but far more restricted.  I simply set a prize /hour played that is acceptable. I am happy that I am not into the ehmm enhanced manga captains and other fantasy reskins apart from some steam punk designs from the first Halloween seasons. Those Asian reskins totally uinterested, if I get one for free fine otherwise not. Real steel premiums of famous ships I might consider but I usually try to get them through Santas containers, it is for a veteran that have most ships the most economical way.

BTW I play no other game, I downloaded the MOO that WG had but never started it despite probably being the top 10 humans on earth that have played MOO original most.

Only other games I have considered is playing a football manager game where the goal is to manage my hate teams as bad as possible. Playing Man City Sell Haaland for 1 EUR and buying a hopeless ninth level player for astronomical numbers etc, appoint the worst trainer etc. The example of Man City is only because I would have played my Swedish hate teams and I do not expect a international audience to know these. Otherwise some sort of space open universe like Privateer from the old 90's with trade and missions. However those seems to be loss of your ship when you are in combat which I am not interested in (start all over again).

Edited June 23 by Gnirf

[Ensign Cthulhu]

10 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I shouldn't be doing well in DDs, according to all the guys saying that experience is this amazing thing. But it's not when randoms is, well...random.

I'm not experienced with DD play. Remember, less than a thousand DD games TOTAL.

The playerbase really is this bad now. None of the kills I got were random or lucky.

OH NO, I'M WINNING AND SUCCEEDING! THE SKY IS FALLING! 

[Aethervox]

11 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Feel free to review the replay and let me know of things to improve.

I reviewed your replay & I didn't see any glaring error. Their CV spotted well at start. I think you got lucky with their torping at you - there was a few close calls. You played the Aviere well - you were aggressive & you kept moving (at full speed). The enemy might have gotten you if they'd been a bit more aggressive like you. Well played 😉.

[ArIskandir]

9 hours ago, Gnirf said:

The yearly daily Premium 50% off is IMO if you play a resonable amount worth it.

It is. I don't think it is a Bad proposition if you are invested in the game. 

9 hours ago, Gnirf said:

Somewhere goes a line between time/cost and rewards that makes Premium time IMO irrational not to take, where the F2P concept is more an ideology than rational choice.

Maybe you are right in being more an ideological choice. As a principle I don't buy premium time, I can't stand waste (in general) so for me it generates a level of commitment I'm unwilling to give to the Game. As much as I like the Game, I don't want to feel 'tied' to it because I made an investment that I need to 'collect' 

9 hours ago, Gnirf said:

But how many hours will a average AAA title get you?

Not as many of course, but they offer a very different experience. The value of variety is different for every person, for me is extremely important... Even in WoWS You can observe I've played almost every TT ship and never played more than 100 matches in any single ship

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

2 minutes ago, Aethervox said:

I reviewed your replay & I didn't see any glaring error. Their CV spotted well at start. I think you got lucky with their torping at you - there was a few close calls. You played the Aviere well - you were aggressive & you kept moving (at full speed). The enemy might have gotten you if they'd been a bit more aggressive like you. Well played 😉.

Their Visby should never have tried to win a gunfight against me. I was pretty confident that, because I knew where he was, I could avoid his torps.

There was at least one brown pants alert where I dodged the enemy Aviere torps that I remember mid game....though that was easier because of their slow speed.

The enemy sub allowed me to get way too close before trying to get away.

The enemy Leone either ran aground or foolishly tried to engage in a gunfight with a superior gunboat.

The enemy CV was a new to the Independence player. He was using the planes for the wrong targets. The long delay on his rockets means they are not anti-DD weapons. He never came after me with the dive bombers, the best anti-DD weapon he had.

That's my point with the replay.

I'm not much good at DDs...not much experience...but the state of the game is that most of the players are so new that someone with a bare minimum of experience and knowledge can easily win.

[Wulf_Ace]

On 6/22/2024 at 7:23 PM, clammboy said:

What is the mind set behind hardcore F2P is it some kind of a badge of honor? Always get the feeling that F2P players think they are better than people who spend money.
 

They also always seem to think there are getting screwed even though it’s just logic that you’re going to have it easier if you spend a few bucks. 
I am not talking about whaling either I mean like 50 a year. 
 

With all the rewards, ranked, clan battles and tournaments there is really no f2p players, if you cant win anything you are doing something wrong.

[ArIskandir]

On 6/22/2024 at 1:08 PM, Kynami said:

I have two counter points for that one, the first is flake events. The T10s you've laid hands on effectively give you infusions of additional super containers and santa crates every year. Which translates into more boxes dropping the occasional extra ship and more free premium time. And its that free premium time in particular that makes everything else considerably more comfortable. The second reason is time limited opportunities, because Weegee love doing things where you have one week to get some tasks done before a coupon runs out to get a T8 or T9 for free* and burning some banked blue boosters with some T10 ship usage is the sanest way to go about it without needing three times as many matches.

Yes these two points are not going to be on the table for a particular new account. But for those playing for over a year it becomes increasingly relevant and possible.

* Paid for via time played and leveraging past gains to your benefit. And lets be honest, some of those event acquired T9s are quite excellent.

Both counter points are quite good, and let's be honest... you'll go beyond T8 anyway because what else are you gonna do after you got there?

My general point is the old monetization scheme is showing its age and is not well suited for new F2P players and how the game has evolved, the selling premise has became weak. If I were a new player starting today, most likely I wouldn't because the selling premise is not attractive and feels too much like a 'crystal ceiling' for F2P.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

Both counter points are quite good, and let's be honest... you'll go beyond T8 anyway because what else are you gonna do after you got there?

My general point is the old monetization scheme is showing its age and is not well suited for new F2P players and how the game has evolved, the selling premise has became weak. If I were a new player starting today, most likely I wouldn't because the selling premise is not attractive and feels too much like a 'crystal ceiling' for F2P.

I had an old rule when I started out not to go past tier 8 for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

Eventually, I accumulated enough riches to make it possible to break through to tier 10 and make that work.

I don't think much has changed from the perspective of new free2play players and the need NOT to get past tier 8 early. It may be more dramatic of a 'stop here for now' line...but the fundamental reasons to stop for a while are similar to where I was some three years ago.

[ArIskandir]

17 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I had an old rule when I started out not to go past tier 8 for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

Eventually, I accumulated enough riches to make it possible to break through to tier 10 and make that work.

I don't think much has changed from the perspective of new free2play players and the need NOT to get past tier 8 early. It may be more dramatic of a 'stop here for now' line...but the fundamental reasons to stop for a while are similar to where I was some three years ago.

Back when I started the game in 2016 it was much 'worse' than it is now, I left the game some months later once I ran out of port slots and hit the T8 ceiling (otoh, back then low-mid tier play was very much alive). I came back some 3 years later because the progression situation for F2P improved a lot and the introduction of Fremiums in T9/T10 really opened those tiers for F2P. 

I think things changed (reverted) with the introduction of Superships, it basically sent the game back to quasi-2016 standards. So far the negative impact seems to be limited, but the ground and rules are set waiting for players to exploit them (and pay for that). The fact of Supership's impact being limited tells more about the negative of players to 'invest more' in this game than any genious design by WG. 

[Kynami]

What might be more "interesting" is if bonus packages at least partially cut the service fees for tech tree ships. Because as it stands right now the real hurdle is simply making it past the critical mass point where you can get enough premium time for free or next to nothing to actually enjoy T8+. And unless you actively have access to CBs for additional resources it will take so much longer to make it there for genuine F2P players.

Since right now bonus packages are really only useful for the increased XP economy. The T10 packages are the only tier where they significantly defray service fees, but it is nowhere near enough without premium time stacked on top. So there is massive pressure to only play premium/special ships when premium time is not available once you hit certain tiers. And making the tech tree ships get an "additional" benefit of another 15% or so service fee cut for having a bonus package still wouldn't tread on the economy advantages of premiums that have effectively 50% discounts baked in on top of significant credit boosts above and beyond what is listed on the bonus package itself.

A good example of a ship I'd play so much more often if a bonus package actually made more of a difference is Des Moines. I'd absolutely prefer to play it over a Salem in terms of what it has except for one very glaring problem. The service fees are a massive headache and no, Tulsa is absolutely not a good substitute. And right now there isn't any real reason to buy bonus packages except for a line you will chain reset for RB points because the main value is all in XP gain rate.