A Suggestion

[EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico]

2 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I don't see anything in WG's official announcements about this forum being here for us to 'sequester ourselves and not cause problems on the discord', as Nevermore put it. 

He didn't include that in his explanation about WGs official position. Please reread his post

 

51 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

You won’t see WG mining this forum for feedback or input. This is a place for those upset about the closure of the forums to sequester themselves and not cause problems on the discord. The official WG position is that the forums were no longer useful as a way to interact with the playerbase. For the devs to to do so with this forum would undercut that official position. That is the official acknowledgment I was referring to, and a one-time shout-out after the PR blowup of closing the forums is not the same thing.

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

The problem on Discord is reduced transparency in moderating compared to the forums, as I see it. They also seem to have an automated rejection of any appeals submitted. This, as far as I can see, is not our immediate concern here because it's a WG/Discord related issue. Not that we couldn't discuss it here, that's not that I'm saying, just that it's again one of those things we cannot influence through this forum. Discord has their own feedback channel where you can post https://discordapp.com/channels/669128285527080961/693148019457130547 if you think it's worthwhile.

If you are using Discord WG server, you know it's next to useless as a community forum, but you can make use of it by addressing issues that require WG staff/employee input, such as customer service related queries, bug reports/issues or general complaints.

[clammboy]

On 8/14/2023 at 11:40 PM, majmac said:

If anyone comes to this forum space who is in any way associated with WG (e.g. CC, CM, other role & etc.) would it be possible to make sure they have full disclosure and put in any post they make their relationship with WG?

 

1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

You won’t see WG mining this forum for feedback or input. This is a place for those upset about the closure of the forums to sequester themselves and not cause problems on the discord. The official WG position is that the forums were no longer useful as a way to interact with the playerbase. For the devs to to do so with this forum would undercut that official position. That is the official acknowledgment I was referring to, and a one-time shout-out after the PR blowup of closing the forums is not the same thing.

I'm sorry but I am here to see old friends discuss new additions to the game. Maybe voice some concerns about about changes to the game ask for help when needed. Basically I am here because I like the game and most of you guys. They took the forums away that sucks but it's done let it go. I just can't say enough good things about the folks who put up this forum thank you again. So IMHO no reason we have to turn it into a parnoid place where we need to put in our job description to be able to post. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by clammboy

[Ensign Cthulhu]

3 minutes ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

He didn't include that in his explanation about WGs official position.

No, he didn't - which made him bringing up WG's position on these forums very much a non sequitur. 

My initial point was simply that WG had acknowledged this forum's existence and done so in an approving manner. If he had limited himself to...

Quote

 a one-time shout-out after the PR blowup of closing the forums is not the same thing.

...I would happily have agreed that he was talking about ongoing engagement while I was not.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

I'm glad that we have our own space where we can focus on discussing and enjoying the game together without the added requirement that it be a means to communicate with WG.

If we want to do those communications, we can use the platforms WG wants us to use (customer support tickets and discord).

This is a good separation because WG doesn't have to feel like they need control of the narrative here because it might hurt sales. That's no longer an issue.

It makes the place more welcoming, I think.

[EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico]

As I said already in a context similarly involving you ( @Ensign Cthulhu ) and another user, you don't need to agree with each other or try to convince each other. I see no issues with what Nevermore135 said. All he said is true, the wish of most of the members online and active here today was indeed to sequester themselves from WG official platforms. And it is also true that WG will not interact with the feedback in this forum as it is now. It might change in the future though.

[Admiral_Karasu]

9 minutes ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

As I said already in a context similarly involving you ( @Ensign Cthulhu ) and another user, you don't need to agree with each other or try to convince each other. I see no issues with what Nevermore135 said. All he said is true, the wish of most of the members online and active here today was indeed to sequester themselves from WG official platforms. And it is also true that WG will not interact with the feedback in this forum as it is now. It might change in the future though.

To clarify, I think the overwhelming majority of us, here on DevStrike! and in general, who were active on the old forums did not think much of the consideration that the forums were operated by WG. In other words, it would have been unlikely there would have been any real need to launch a competing community platform if the old forums would have continued to operate as before. WG could have launched a global forum to replace the old regional forums, and then we would have likely gone there. They didn't, though, and we are here.

DevStrike! is the only alternative that offers us most of what we were happy with on the old forums. It comes with its own pro's and con's, but we will manage and also make use of any other platforms and resources that are available for us alongside it.

[Verblonde]

9 minutes ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

And it is also true that WG will not interact with the feedback in this forum as it is now. It might change in the future though.

I imagine they (WG) will be taking a 'wait and see' approach for the moment; they'd be foolish to ignore the new forum entirely - at the moment, the scale of engagement is quite modest, but it may well grow with time.

It's also worth noting that it looks like the user base (at the moment) is skewing older, which may mean above average disposable income. From a commercial perspective, that makes the views on here potentially relevant, if not so right now.

I also assume that this new forum is searchable on things like Google and Bing; if engagement increases, that could mean forum pages could start appearing higher up search results that WG care about (although it'll probably be months - ? - before that happens a lot).

[Nevermore135]

55 minutes ago, clammboy said:

I'm sorry but I am here to see old friends discuss new additions to the game. Maybe voice some concerns about about changes to the game ask for help when needed. Basically I am here because I like the game and most of you guys. 

Where did I say otherwise?

55 minutes ago, clammboy said:

They took the forums away that sucks but it's done let it go. I just can't say enough good things about the folks who put up this forum thank you again. So IMHO no reason we have to turn it into a parnoid place where we need to put in our job description to be able to post. 

I fail to see how any of this applies to the reasoning I described earlier in this thread about why WG has no interest in interacting with this platform.

48 minutes ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

As I said already in a context similarly involving you ( @Ensign Cthulhu ) and another user, you don't need to agree with each other or try to convince each other. I see no issues with what Nevermore135 said. All he said is true, the wish of most of the members online and active here today was indeed to sequester themselves from WG official platforms. And it is also true that WG will not interact with the feedback in this forum as it is now. It might change in the future though.

Not quite what I meant, although also certainly valid. As @Admiral_Karasu pointed out, I don’t feel like a majority of the population here really views sequestration from the devs as a good thing and would have preferred that the old forums continued to be active - at least there we had access to WG staff and some influence on the game’s development (at least theoretically, it wouldn’t serve any good purpose to debate how much that actually was).

[Asym]

1 hour ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

And it is also true that WG will not interact with the feedback in this forum as it is now. It might change in the future though.

I would suspect that is true.....  It's called "discovery" and that, I'm pretty sure is why the old forum was taken down.  If I were to guess, there were replies to players that simply would create serious issues if they were listed in a Tort.   They want to be invisible and immune from court directed disclosures....   BTW, in DC, that isolates any customer interaction to only what's on DC......and, it can't be back tracked to the Corporation.   House cleaning to remove the old forum.  Gosh, this is political and uses big words - censored in three, two, one.........BLIP !

[Admiral_Karasu]

31 minutes ago, Asym said:

I would suspect that is true.....  It's called "discovery" and that, I'm pretty sure is why the old forum was taken down.  If I were to guess, there were replies to players that simply would create serious issues if they were listed in a Tort.   They want to be invisible and immune from court directed disclosures....   BTW, in DC, that isolates any customer interaction to only what's on DC......and, it can't be back tracked to the Corporation.   House cleaning to remove the old forum.  Gosh, this is political and uses big words - censored in three, two, one.........BLIP !

DC?

[Asym]

37 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

DC?

Discord

[clammboy]

4 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

 

4 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Oh, that would be why the NA team shouted us out on-stream last week? 

You won’t see WG mining this forum for feedback or input. This is a place for those upset about the closure of the forums to sequester themselves and not cause problems on the discord .

 

I am sorry if I miss understood but this is simple not why I came here . And the other quote about job requirements to post was to the OP. I quoted 2 people sorry for confusion. 
 

Edited August 25, 2023 by clammboy

[Nevermore135]

1 hour ago, clammboy said:

I am sorry if I miss understood but this is simple not why I came here . And the other quote about job requirements to post was to the OP. I quoted 2 people sorry for confusion. 
 

But we have sequestered ourselves - this is a closed community in the sense that it does not have direct access or involvement from the WoWs team.

WG made it pretty clear through their actions and statements that they do not have any desire to interact with a forum community and all that entails. They did not consider the feedback they were receiving through those channels to be useful or desirable, which is why we saw a long campaign to promote other avenues of interaction (primarily discord) followed by the sudden closure of the forums.

I think the disconnect here is that you are equating “cause problems on discord” to bashing and raging against WG specifically. One only needs to peruse some of the topics on this forum to see that the current set of discord moderators is doing far more than removing posts for simple rules violations. You may believe those individuals raising these concerns are being paranoid, but they could just as easily argue you are being naive. That’s really beside the point, though. This is a place for those who wish to retain something of their old forum communities (NA, EU, and ASIA) to come to talk about whatever they wish regarding WoWs in the manner they wish to discuss it (within the rules, of course). Some of that will be critical of WG, which should be expected considering recent events, but this is OUR space where topics and discussions won’t be curtailed simply because they are inconvenient for WG.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Nevermore135

[EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico]

30 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

This is a place for those who wish to retain something of their old forum communities to come to talk about whatever they wish regarding WoWs in the manner they wish to discuss it (within the rules, of course). Some of that will be critical of WG, which should be expected considering recent events, but this is OUR space where topics and discussions won’t be curtailed simply because they are inconvenient for WG.

To be clear. Speaking to everyone who participates in this topic, maybe this will get it's own announcement.

The goal of this forum is not for a small set of individuals to have their home where they will be able to, within the rules expect to remain by themselves as freely as their original group as was the case on the individually and regionally isolated remaining community members of the official forums. This platform is suitable for all regions and welcomes members from every regional platform and any other outside of the official forums. Discord users, reddit users, newcomers and old community members are all welcome here and with that this whole forum is planning to turn into a place for everyone.

This means that already established community members will have to adapt their mannerisms in such a way that allows newcomers who lack "context" to be able to safely express their opinions and be welcomed, not indoctrinated.

 

The current trend which as you pointed out is provoked by WGs recent decisions, which leads to much negative energy postings will be halted by us moderators. At the moment I am this sections moderator together with @HogHammer and @SureBridge

Right now we see a lot of topics popping up with little basis for constructive discussions. The main points all hovering around WG and individual little "perceived" nuisances. We have barely anyone discussing the game itself.

Barely anyone is talking about either how to play ships, asking for help, discussing ship builds, maps, play-styles or any similarly game related topics. The most popular topics are focusing on little rants against something WG did.

Also all of these discussions regarding WGs most recent doings have no effect on the game or WG as this criticism and feedback doesn't reach them here. So if you want to achieve in a way for your feedback and concerns about their recent doings to be heard stating those here won't help with that.

 

https://www.devstrike.net/forum/10-general-discussion/

Is not supposed to be a place to vent your anger and frustrations.

This is neither interesting nor inviting for anyone who is looking for what a forum about World of Warships is intending to promote. On top of it is that the forum as it currently is used is more like many little chat-rooms too. It's fine to be a little more lighthearted especially in the current growing period. However this will not be able to continue like this. While WG is certainly capable of supplying you with unlimited amounts of topics to suffer through together it won't be enough for what the forum wants to be used primarily.

So if anyone expected to join here to have their own isolated safe-space in which they'll be allowed to say just about anything in regards to how terrible the game and their Devs are and so on then you are mistaken. We want to promote this to be a space where people feel positively about the game they want to play and collect information together and to discuss the game. Sometimes this means criticism towards WGs actions. This is fine. However not as it's main focus.

 

Please understand.

 

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

Good luck finding 'people who feel positively about the game', though. Hope you will, but in the mean time I hope you will settle for us lot who still want to keep playing the game despite all the nonsensical crap WG keeps throwing at us.

Sorry, but that's the bare naked truth as I see it. Others are free to disagree, of course, as long as they do it in a polite and civil manner.

Having said that, I too would like to see more gameplay related posts, as you are saying. Still, many of us here have talked these things you mention over several times over several years. What we would be more likely to discuss is current things in the game, new content, changes, etc. If we get actual newcovers in the game, I expect that will change. Also, in that case the training section will really be worth the effort. It could even bring benefit to veteran players as well.

[Nevermore135]

1 hour ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

To be clear. Speaking to everyone who participates in this topic, maybe this will get it's own announcement.

The goal of this forum is not for a small set of individuals to have their home where they will be able to, within the rules expect to remain by themselves as freely as their original group as was the case on the individually and regionally isolated remaining community members of the official forums. This platform is suitable for all regions and welcomes members from every regional platform and any other outside of the official forums. Discord users, reddit users, newcomers and old community members are all welcome here and with that this whole forum is planning to turn into a place for everyone.

I think you misunderstand my intent. I am not advocating for this community to be selective in its membership or be exclusionary in any manner. I’m simply pointing out that this forum was formed in direct response to WG closing down their official forums, and unless I am grossly mistaken the intention for this space is to fill the void left by that move. When I refer to this being “our” space, I am not referring to a particular clique or set of players, new or old, current or future, but rather this community as a whole (whatever it ends up being). There are of course going to be rules and guidelines set up by the admin and moderation team, but this will be an effort independent of WG - a community formed by the community for the community. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

1 hour ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

This means that already established community members will have to adapt their mannerisms in such a way that allows newcomers who lack "context" to be able to safely express their opinions and be welcomed, not indoctrinated.

Could you elaborate on this? “Indoctrinated” is a very loaded word.

1 hour ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

The current trend which as you pointed out is provoked by WGs recent decisions, which leads to much negative energy postings will be halted by us moderators. At the moment I am this sections moderator together with @HogHammer and @SureBridge

Right now we see a lot of topics popping up with little basis for constructive discussions. The main points all hovering around WG and individual little "perceived" nuisances. We have barely anyone discussing the game itself.

Barely anyone is talking about either how to play ships, asking for help, discussing ship builds, maps, play-styles or any similarly game related topics. The most popular topics are focusing on little rants against something WG did.

Also all of these discussions regarding WGs most recent doings have no effect on the game or WG as this criticism and feedback doesn't reach them here. So if you want to achieve in a way for your feedback and concerns about their recent doings to be heard stating those here won't help with that.

I understand and agree with much of this. However, emotions are still running high right now and much of the recently cultivated negative sentiment is unlikely to simply dissipate into the ether anytime soon - it’s simply too fresh for a lot of people. Moderation of such topics needs to be much more aggressive if this is to be accomplished.

1 hour ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

So if anyone expected to join here to have their own isolated safe-space in which they'll be allowed to say just about anything in regards to how terrible the game and their Devs are and so on then you are mistaken. We want to promote this to be a space where people feel positively about the game they want to play and collect information together and to discuss the game. Sometimes this means criticism towards WGs actions. This is fine. However not as it's main focus.

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone advocating for what you have described here (I certainly have not). In fact, given the amount of debate that has shown up in the short amount of time this forum has been active, I find it hard to find any evidence that anyone is looking for a “safe space,” regardless of where they stand on certain issues.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Nevermore135]

51 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Good luck finding 'people who feel positively about the game', though. Hope you will, but in the mean time I hope you will settle for us lot who still want to keep playing the game despite all the nonsensical crap WG keeps throwing at us.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling that a large portion of the current population are old forumites and veteran players with a lot of baggage.

52 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Having said that, I too would like to see more gameplay related posts, as you are saying. Still, many of us here have talked these things you mention over several times over several years. What we would be more likely to discuss is current things in the game, new content, changes, etc. If we get actual newcovers in the game, I expect that will change. Also, in that case the training section will really be worth the effort. It could even bring benefit to veteran players as well.

Assuming I get power back at home sometime this weekend (have had two major windstorms roll through in the past week), I’ll see if I can’t start putting together some informational posts/guides, third party resource threads, etc. I’ve been thinking about doing so for the last week or so since so much accumulated and published knowledge is set to be lost soon when the official forums are purged.

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 minute ago, Nevermore135 said:

Assuming I get power back at home sometime this weekend (have had two major windstorms roll through in the past week), I’ll see if I can’t start putting together some informational posts/guides, third party resource threads, etc. I’ve been thinking about doing so for the last week or so since so much accumulated and published knowledge is set to be lost soon when the official forums are purged.

You should have a chat with @SureBridge about this.

[EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico]

6 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

I think you misunderstand my intent.

Hey. I'm sorry if it came over as such but I'm not. I am just making sure to clarify the position as misunderstandings will happen due to these discussions.

 

8 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

Could you elaborate on this? “Indoctrinated” is a very loaded word.

We have a majority of users who are currently highly unhappy with the direction the game is being taken by WG. Not everyone but a few exceptions of these users are not hopeful regarding not only the future of the game but also regarding how game-play is affected so negatively that certain game-play options seem unreasonable even to be suggested. We want to avoid that this negativity taints the perspectives of newcomers or users who seek help and actual advice.

 

13 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

However, emotions are still running high right now and much of the recently cultivated negative sentiment is unlikely to simply disparate into the either anytime soon - it’s simply too fresh for a lot of people. Moderation of such topics needs to be much more aggressive if this is to be accomplished.

In the beginning I personally will be lenient as I can totally understand how these players feel. We are not in a hurry but the moderation will tighten as we go and I apologize for future inconveniences.

 

If you want to have a more detailed discussion around this we should continue in PMs.

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

Barely anyone is talking about either how to play ships, asking for help, discussing ship builds, maps, play-styles or any similarly game related topics. The most popular topics are focusing on little rants against something WG did.

May I politely suggest taking out the sheet music and playing the Real Waltz? At the moment, as far as I can tell, the bulk of people here - so far - are refugees from the now-defunct official fora. In that context, the bulk of us already know how to play most of the ships in the game, have a handle on sensible builds and so on (although we may not necessarily all be that good at it - in my case anyway).

We're starting to get a few newcomers arriving, and I am seeing some help being given where questions are being asked; however, the bulk of people already here are those who are likely to be answering questions, rather than asking them.

I would also point out that we're having this conversation in the 'general' section; if you don't want this part of the forum to function as it did on the old fora (which - for the EU at least - meant anything remotely game related, including moaning), may I suggest having a bit of blurb at the top of each forum section detailing what is and isn't a suitable subject for that section.

Circling back to the Real Waltz: we are in a period of significant discontent amongst many of the established players; I think it's inevitable (*especially* amongst the British English speakers) that you're going to get a chunk of moaning and mickey-taking. If you want to ban that sort of thing, it's your (and the other founders') forum, but I suggest that risks discouraging people from participating.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Verblonde

[EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico]

1 minute ago, Verblonde said:

but I suggest that risks discouraging people from participating.

This is why for now we are still relaxed. You can continue as it currently is. But we will slowly tighten it up a little and I hope you understand why that might become necessary in the future.

[Verblonde]

1 minute ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

This is why for now we are still relaxed. You can continue as it currently is. But we will slowly tighten it up a little and I hope you understand why that might become necessary in the future.

I believe I understand your aim, and I don't disagree, although I'm not certain yet that it's realistic - let's see how many newbies find their way here.

On thing I would mention: I got into trouble once (just once!) on the old EU forum because - big surprise - I express myself using British English, and in a British way. One of the moderators - I think - was reading what I wrote in English as a Second Language, and misunderstood my intent, and banned me for a few days. They mistook gentle ribbing (of WG) for 'abuse'. Lesson learned, and I adjusted how I post (this, incidentally, is where Madam Olga's came from).

The point being that I think we (both posters and moderators) are going to have to negotiate some pretty big differences in both character and mode of expression across the breadth of the English-speaking community.

[Admiral_Karasu]

13 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I believe I understand your aim, and I don't disagree, although I'm not certain yet that it's realistic - let's see how many newbies find their way here.

On thing I would mention: I got into trouble once (just once!) on the old EU forum because - big surprise - I express myself using British English, and in a British way. One of the moderators - I think - was reading what I wrote in English as a Second Language, and misunderstood my intent, and banned me for a few days. They mistook gentle ribbing (of WG) for 'abuse'. Lesson learned, and I adjusted how I post (this, incidentally, is where Madam Olga's came from).

The point being that I think we (both posters and moderators) are going to have to negotiate some pretty big differences in both character and mode of expression across the breadth of the English-speaking community.

Yes, I'm not sure if the level of banter has generally been quite the same across all the regions.

[EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico]

11 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I believe I understand your aim, and I don't disagree, although I'm not certain yet that it's realistic - let's see how many newbies find their way here.

On thing I would mention: I got into trouble once (just once!) on the old EU forum because - big surprise - I express myself using British English, and in a British way. One of the moderators - I think - was reading what I wrote in English as a Second Language, and misunderstood my intent, and banned me for a few days. They mistook gentle ribbing (of WG) for 'abuse'. Lesson learned, and I adjusted how I post (this, incidentally, is where Madam Olga's came from).

The point being that I think we (both posters and moderators) are going to have to negotiate some pretty big differences in both character and mode of expression across the breadth of the English-speaking community.

Be assured that all the interactions between us (mods and users) are absolutely monitored and discussed to adapt the interaction into the favor of you (users) to ensure that we get as good and as inclusive of an experience as it can get for everyone.