Andrewbassg Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Frostbow said: I did not know that. I started playing Operations rather late already. Newport, AEGIS, KW and Raptor were T6. Narai T7 and Ultimate Frontier, and Cherry were T8. Hermes had some twists. 46 minutes ago, Frostbow said: As for the learning and progression curve, I am not sure if I could agree to an arrangement where Operations are separated based on Tiers, given that Operations are scripted and the bots are at the same Tier or even lower, than ships that the players brought with them. People, especially newcomers, could see how one could play same tier ships and learn from it, like how to deal with different targets, what to respect and why and what not, with different but same tier ships. Mashing up tiers created only a desire to quickly buy top tier ( T8) coz " mummy i need that, coz, I play a sh** T6 ship and I cant without". Otherwise, ops were quite well thought out and balanced, even if in Narai one would face mrs Missou (a scary perspective for T7 cruisers) and in Newport a bunch of T4;s (but LOTS of em). Newport was THE hardest op (T6's have not that much firepower), except maybe Hermes. People tended to stay out that week Edited June 25 by Andrewbassg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArIskandir Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 6 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said: Mashing up tiers created only a desire to quickly buy top tier ( T8) Bingo. The original sin of Ops was going against the prime monetization directive (progression to high tiers). You can't have a bunch of guys happily inhabiting T6, you need to push them at least to T8. The mixed tier environment in Ops is explained by the need to escalate monetization, whatver positive consequence of that for the players is a just 'happy accident' 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruzenstern Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 59 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said: Ops rework did much, much harm, as to the ops community, as for the game, as a whole. And even arguably to Wedgie , coz removed the incentive to buy T6-7 premiums. Well, for me the ops rework kept me in the game. The old weekly ops with only tier6 and occasionally Narai had gotten so stale. Now you never know what you will get into, which makes it a lot more interesting, and of course being able to use tier8s opened a vast pool of ships. And I am fairly certain the added incentive to buy tier8 prems more that offsets the possible decline in tier6/7 ones. And as far as I can tell, queue times are quite a bit less than they were before the rework. From everything I can tell, the new ops are the only really good thing WG did in years. I still enjoy them, whereas I would have stopped playing more than 2 years ago if they had not done this. Can't wait for them to follow Mir Korabely and open ops to tiers 9+. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Kruzenstern said: the new ops Except they weren't. New, I mean. Otherwise horses for courses. i play less ops and with much much less ships. Before i would take out all sorts of ships, even Cv's. Nowadays Irian and that's it maybe a DD or a BB if mission. I need ships that can perform. coz i don't know when and if I had to carry. And on top at least half the fun is gone. Stale. If KW automatically go for A1 to make sure of the win. Edit: And still...... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Even so i had teams who lost.. Mind you, i know ops inside out. Raptor is still fav by far, but can't decide when i can play it. Edited June 25 by Andrewbassg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 47 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said: People, especially newcomers, could see how one could play same tier ships and learn from it, like how to deal with different targets, what to respect and what not, with different but same tier ships. Mashing up tiers created only a desire to quickly buy top tier ( T8) coz " mummy i need that, coz, I play a s.... T6 ship and I cant without". I'm not sure about how others approached the rework in terms of the freedom to choose Tier VIII ships for Operations. On my end, my ship pool changed rather late, from Leander/Fiji/Pensacola/Helena/Izmail to Cleveland/Baltimore/Mogami 155. Tech Tree ships are amazing, and one aspect of the rework that I find pleasantly challenging was to outscore Tier VIIIs with my Helena. For premium ships, I've had Atlanta even before the rework, and yes, the CL was exceedingly effective at milking Operations. 1 hour ago, Andrewbassg said: Newport was THE hardest op (T6's have not that much firepower), except maybe Hermes. People tended to stay out that week Defeat at Newport, it was. LOL! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 44 minutes ago, Kruzenstern said: Well, for me the ops rework kept me in the game. The old weekly ops with only tier6 and occasionally Narai had gotten so stale. Now you never know what you will get into, which makes it a lot more interesting, and of course being able to use tier8s opened a vast pool of ships. I agree! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfYouSeeKhaos Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Odd the things the forum gets stuck on while not inquiring about the actual impossibility of this account... Such as this: On 6/22/2024 at 2:48 AM, xamdam said: TY WeeGee for making it possible for anybody with a credit card to buy just about anything in the game and troll with it... ...However, note the ships... "Registration Date: 16.02.2024... 4 months & 6 days between the account registration (Feb 16 this year) & this post (Jun 22nd in)... Let's not even inquire about the 2 super ships...that also require the T10s at least be researched on the account to be purchased...not sure if they need to be bought (in 19 games...which would make 3 T10s at least with the Yamato...as it's not the premium ARP Yamato...but only 12 of the 9 ships are shown so not sure what other gems are hidden in those las 7)... & I don't know if the Star Kitikazi/or either of the Dragon ships is available for purchase... But I know for a fact the Füjin has not...in any way at all...been available for purchase in the last 4 months & 6 days...no matter what kind of credit card you have... Maybe...& That would be an infinitesimal on the maybe...but just maybe...if Santa crates were around during that 4 months & 6 days it might have been whale-able...but that hasn't happened. That is a screenshot of an impossible account. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruzenstern Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 1 hour ago, Andrewbassg said: Otherwise horses for courses. i play less ops and with much much less ships. Before i would take out all sorts of ships, even Cv's. Nowadays Irian and that's it maybe a DD or a BB if mission. I need ships that can perform. coz i don't know when and if I had to carry. That's funny, for me it is exactly the other way around. Before, I and most others would only take a very small selection of powerful ships. And especially Narai usually turned into a 'which Weimar can get to the touchdown line first' shitshow. There was absolutely no challenge at all. If you took a weaker ship, you were outdone by all the Fijis, Weimars, Nürnbergs, Galisonnieres, Leanders etc. Especially BBs were hard to perform well in, because BBs up to tier 7 are not much to write home about (with few exclusions like WV44 which didn't exist back then afaik, and Scharnhorst. Now with tier8s available, there are far more strong ships, and even more not so strong ships what still enable you to carry. For me, that is the spice in the soup. I can shine and have fun in ships generally regarded as terrible, like Picardie or Constellation. And the pool of players playing has increased, which means the average quality is lower, so not every Mainz and Bayard will take the whole op for themselves. And the ops, while not technically new, are quite different from before. Especially the higher tier cruiser enemies are much more powerful than they used to be, requiring doing things differently often. And lastly, you make it sound like having to carry in ops is a chore. To me, carrying is the very core of the fun. Disregarding the occasional early torpedo accident, I carry almost every ops match I play. And the occasional matches where my team is made up of mostly competent players, preventing me from carrying, those are the LEAST fun matches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xamdam Posted June 25 Author Share Posted June 25 1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said: Odd the things the forum gets stuck on while not inquiring about the actual impossibility of this account... Such as this: "Registration Date: 16.02.2024... 4 months & 6 days between the account registration (Feb 16 this year) & this post (Jun 22nd in)... Let's not even inquire about the 2 super ships...that also require the T10s at least be researched on the account to be purchased...not sure if they need to be bought (in 19 games...which would make 3 T10s at least with the Yamato...as it's not the premium ARP Yamato...but only 12 of the 9 ships are shown so not sure what other gems are hidden in those las 7)... & I don't know if the Star Kitikazi/or either of the Dragon ships is available for purchase... But I know for a fact the Füjin has not...in any way at all...been available for purchase in the last 4 months & 6 days...no matter what kind of credit card you have... Maybe...& That would be an infinitesimal on the maybe...but just maybe...if Santa crates were around during that 4 months & 6 days it might have been whale-able...but that hasn't happened. That is a screenshot of an impossible account. Yes, I later realized that when people brought up the press / promo account hypothesis. Which is why I commented a few posts afterwards that I think such divisions in Ops shouldn't be allowed unless they are full 7 player divs (locking out the possibility of pulling in solo players from the queue). There would be nothing wrong with them giving the game a try while not ruining the match for the other players. Or, limit the division size to only 2 (1 "instructor", 1 "newbie"). But... WG would never bother implementing either of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kruzenstern said: And lastly, you make it sound like having to carry in ops is a chore. Coz, yes, it is. i have to carry coz, I know that I can. it is a chore and no fun at all. Ops weren't about that, ops were about teamplay, exactly because no ship was powerful enough to carry. It was about five starring, not merely winning. If wasn't 5 star, I considered the match a loss. And that required team play. 1 hour ago, Kruzenstern said: There was absolutely no challenge at all. The challenge was to be the best on your team and help as much as you can. The challenge was to take out different ships, elaborate different tactics for them and implement them and still do your best. For newcomers to learn the basics of the game , while playing and having fun. And the repetitive nature of ops made sure that the lesson stayed with you. One would learn the importance of objectives, how to accomplish them and how to use ships, as tools for that purpose .And the challenge was to survive long enough, to make enough. Like I said, ops were the lyceum/highschool of wows. Comparing current ops to what it was, is like a clownshow. Comic, but tragic. 1 hour ago, Kruzenstern said: Especially BBs were hard to perform well in, because BBs up to tier 7 And that also was a challenge. 1 hour ago, Kruzenstern said: which means the average quality is lower, Which is quite sad. 1 hour ago, Kruzenstern said: Especially the higher tier cruiser enemies are much more powerful than they used to be, requiring doing things differently often Yeah, people don't know what to do. Coz they are missing the basics. And have no chance to learn it. 1 hour ago, Kruzenstern said: And especially Narai usually turned into a 'which Weimar can get to the touchdown line first' shitshow. And who designed and sold Weimar? Yeah.... Btw Weimar was far from being a guaranteed "win", one had to know what and when. I;ve seen quite plenty of Weimars failing... 1 hour ago, Kruzenstern said: If you took a weaker ship, you were outdone by all the Fijis, Weimars, Nürnbergs, Galisonnieres, Leanders etc Playing (I mean well) any of those ships was a and the challenge in itself. 1 hour ago, Kruzenstern said: Before, I and most others would only take a very small selection of powerful ships. If i wanted to grind then yes, but no ship was universally good, some ships shined in some ops and less in others. Edit Maybe Leander could be called as such, but still wasn't easy. Edited June 25 by Andrewbassg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volron Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 6 hours ago, Andrewbassg said: Yeah......... well, Wedgie ALWAYS treated ops as an unwanted child, questioned their legitimacy, removed some and we had to literally fight ( and for years) to get back some and even than they "managed" to butcher them. As @xamdam @Vader_Samaand @Volron being experts in ops , on par with Forgotten Void, can testify about that. Volron is THE best operations Cv player, across the board/servers. They don't question it, they flat out deny it. Ops is the bastard child they are embarrassed of, tossed into some high up tower and threw the key away. They only acknowledge the existence when it suits them. It sucks on so many levels on how they went about the entire thing. They could easily hire the people who have the brain cells (cause we all know WeeGee don't have any) to rework the ops and make them 100x better without BS tactics like adding random numbers to things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfYouSeeKhaos Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 19 hours ago, Andrewbassg said: Edit Maybe Leander could be called as such, but still wasn't easy. You spelled Fiji wrong... & As far as Narai was concerned...yes... It was easy...Very easy. Original Narai was so easy you just needed 1 person to kill the transports & you could singlehandedly...& Very Very easily complete the other 4 tasks all by yourself. 2nd iteration was still way easy in Fiji...you just have to stop midway on way to CV to help focus down Mo as they put that big Island in the middle of the direct path to the CV... I'm guessing to put a delay in the Fiji's path to give other ships a chance to farm something before the Fiji just cleared everything out. Haven't done ops in awhile...not sure if they changed Narai after making it random which op will come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 10 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said: You spelled Fiji wrong... Me? 12 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said: Original Narai was so easy you just needed 1 person to kill the transports & you could singlehandedly...& Very Very easily complete the other 4 tasks all by yourself. In a .... Fiji? All four? Well, maybe you did it in a 2 person div, the smallest team i played was 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfYouSeeKhaos Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 18 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said: Me? In a .... Fiji? All four? Well, maybe you did it in a 2 person div, the smallest team i played was 4. No div...solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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