Sheesh...

[Zysyss]

Here is the problem, in a nutshell: there is no true downside to being bad at the game. You could be a player with a 39% win rate due to your own bad gameplay and still advance through the tech tree and make credits. When the game first came out, if you played badly in the high tier, you could lose credits, but WG changed that. I can promise you that WG is well aware of what is going on in high-tier gameplay. If they have not done anything to correct that issue by now, they are not going to do it ever. This leaves us players with one of two choices: either stay or leave. If you stay, you could also stop playing randoms and stick to CB and KoTs, but they are not being run most of the time. I blame WG for the disaster high-tier gameplay has become more than the players.

[USMC2145]

5 hours ago, Zysyss said:

Here is the problem, in a nutshell: there is no true downside to being bad at the game. You could be a player with a 39% win rate due to your own bad gameplay and still advance through the tech tree and make credits. When the game first came out, if you played badly in the high tier, you could lose credits, but WG changed that. I can promise you that WG is well aware of what is going on in high-tier gameplay. If they have not done anything to correct that issue by now, they are not going to do it ever. This leaves us players with one of two choices: either stay or leave. If you stay, you could also stop playing randoms and stick to CB and KoTs, but they are not being run most of the time. I blame WG for the disaster high-tier gameplay has become more than the players.

You are 100% correct that WG let this happen. They put greed ahead of quality. They have never made an introduction tutorial to the game that players have to go through before they can play. Tanks have one; I have no idea why ships do not. Oh, wait! Greed, it would cost them money. So players have to look for videos and posts, and many won't. Many just rush or buy their way to high tiers, remaining lost and clueless. In a plain sad state, the game is in Tier 8+.

Edited June 23 by USMC2145

[Ensign Cthulhu]

On 6/22/2024 at 7:18 AM, xamdam said:

Also, the account name had multiple duplicates that ended with _1, _2, _3 up to _10. 

On second thought, this smells like a come-and-try setup at a museum ship or similar, in which case congratulations, you just trashed a bunch of complete beginners who had every right to have no idea of what they were doing. 

I wouldn't be surprised to find that it's a renamed Lexington Museum account set.

Edited June 24 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Wowzery]

17 hours ago, USMC2145 said:

They have never made an introduction tutorial to the game that players have to go through before they can play.

Yeah.  Its one of the strange games thought.  Its very easy to learn, hop in a ship, maneuver around and shoot the enemy.  Its a very simple concept.

However, it doesn't tell you about different modes, coop, random, etc, how to actually aim to hit anything, mini map, situational awareness of where you are, avoiding torps before you see them, different ship classes, nations, angling, switching ammo and why, wide spread or narrow spread of torps, and a host of other things.

[xamdam]

22 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

On second thought, this smells like a come-and-try setup at a museum ship or similar, in which case congratulations, you just trashed a bunch of complete beginners who had every right to have no idea of what they were doing. 

I wouldn't be surprised to find that it's a renamed Lexington Museum account set.

Were you born this way, or did you have to work at it?

Edit: First on my ignore list for this forum... 

Edited June 24 by xamdam

[Ensign Cthulhu]

12 hours ago, xamdam said:

Were you born this way, or did you have to work at it?

I could ask you the same question.

[Wolfswetpaws]

On 6/22/2024 at 11:21 AM, USMC2145 said:

Simple, restrict buying premium ships to the highest tier tech tree ship you have. 

If people succeed/get-lucky in life and have disposable income, then why shouldn't they be able to spend it?

 @Aethervox mentioned being lucky to be invited to the Alpha testing.  So, fortunate timing for them to join the game.

Myself?  I joined as a new player in 2018.  I didn't have enough FreeXP or other resources to exchange for the Missouri and the Musashi and the Enterprise.
All three of them have eluded me, simply becuase of timing and because WG/WOWs decided to "close the gate" on getting them.

Now, I have to hope that I'll get lucky with a loot-crate and that the ships I want are available via that method.
I've tried several times.  But my loot-crate results didn't provide "the prize" that I was hoping for.

Which leads our conversation to what irks me.  It really annoys me that this game removes ships from availability.
It denies players the same opportunities that others have been able to enjoy.
And it denies the game a revenue stream.

I'm aware of how some people view the mentioned ships as formidable opponents and that there were some who claimed that they were/are over-powered.
I don't agree with those assessments.
I've sailed other ships and fought against the "over-powered" ships and have always felt that they could be defeated with appropriate gameplay.
There have been numerous changes to the game which have nerfed, globally nerfed, and power-crept the ships, anyway. 
They're no longer "all that and a bag of chips" as far as their in-game performance goes, in my opinion.

Perhaps I enjoy the "challenge" more than others?  Whatever the answer to that question, ...
... it still bothers me that the chance to connect with those ship's histories is denied to new players or hidden behind loot-box randomness.

So, to me, your proposed restriction @USMC2145 seems like a really mean thing to inflict upon people.

[Andrewbassg]

On 6/24/2024 at 4:38 AM, Ensign Cthulhu said:

On second thought, this smells like a come-and-try setup at a museum ship or similar, in which case congratulations, you just trashed a bunch of complete beginners who had every right to have no idea of what they were doing. 

I wouldn't be surprised to find that it's a renamed Lexington Museum account set.

Noice. However,these klnd of accounts should not be allowed into mid to high tier randoms nor operations.  In order to play operations, one must have access level 14(!!!). But alas, probably these kind of accounts are stocked with all sort of ships of all sorts of tiers. And Weeggee gives .... "somethin' " about how that influences the game.

But that's actually a double edged sword, coz I would be very salty playing with these "players", thus possibly negating the reason of existence of these kind of accounts.

[Andrewbassg]

57 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

If people succeed/get-lucky in life and have disposable income, then why shouldn't they be able to spend it?

Because premiums circumvent the protected MM?

Edited June 25 by Andrewbassg

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Because premiums circumvent the protected MM.

Really?
I figure it is the account status which is somehow in compliance with matchmaking.
(Example:  A musuem ship has multiple similarly named accounts and tourists get to play them.  As the accounts accumulate games, they'll break-out of the protected matchmaking.  Unless there's some restrictive programming I'm not aware of which adjusts which matchmaking population pools those accounts are allowed to interact with?)
If having a premium ship allows a new player to escape the confines of protected matchmaking, this is the first I can remember hearing of it.
What led you to your conclusion?

[Aethervox]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Which leads our conversation to what irks me.  It really annoys me that this game removes ships from availability.
It denies players the same opportunities that others have been able to enjoy.
And it denies the game a revenue stream.

This is a good point. Some ship availability is a result of timing such as starting playing WoWS during Alpha &/or Beta testing.

Other limited availability ships, some of them, at least, should be offered for direct sale purchase & not just from rare loot box drops (gambling).

[Andrewbassg]

52 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Really?

Yes. Because, one can play randoms with access level 3. Buying a high tier premium will circumvent protected MM, coz there is no such thing for T6+(actually 5). Otherwise, IDC on what people spend, their moneyz.

 

52 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I figure it is the account status which is somehow in compliance with matchmaking.
(Example:  A musuem ship has multiple similarly named accounts and tourists get to play them.  As the accounts accumulate games, they'll break-out of the protected matchmaking.

That's a separate issue. And.....

52 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Unless there's some restrictive programming I'm not aware of which adjusts which matchmaking population pools those accounts are allowed to interact with?)

...it is possible that these kind of accounts are limited/special accounts, but we (I for sure) don't have evidence in that regard.

52 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

If having a premium ship allows a new player to escape the confines of protected matchmaking, this is the first I can remember hearing of it.
What led you to your conclusion?

"The Matchmaker for Newcomers

A newcomer is a player who has played at most 200 battles. World of Warships has a special queue for newcomers entering Random battle so they gain experience before moving on to general Random Battles. If any newcomers decide they are ready to fight with experienced players, they will be able to do that by playing Tier V+ ships:

 

When playing a ship of Tier I–IV, a newcomer is put into the special queue for newcomers only.

When playing a ship of Tier V or higher, a newcomer is put into the general Random queue."

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Matchmaking

\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited June 25 by Andrewbassg

[OT2_2]

32 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

When playing a ship of Tier V or higher, a newcomer is put into the general Random queue."

And that can go "rapido" by just making the slightest mistake or showing a little inattention ... For most affected players it's often looking like a trap ...

Edited June 25 by OT2_2

[Andrewbassg]

2 minutes ago, OT2_2 said:

rapido

.....being the key word. 

As a side note, people don't realise that even Wedgie deemed playing ops a high skill/high effort mode. After ops there is only Inventory, Ranked and Clan battles to be unlocked.

There is a good reason why clans used to use ops as a training ground...

[OT2_2]

28 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

.....being the key word. 

As a side note, people don't realise that even Wedgie deemed playing ops a high skill/high effort mode. After ops there is only Inventory, Ranked and Clan battles to be unlocked.

There is a good reason why clans used to use ops as a training ground...

I didn't know that about ops. WG should give much more attention to Ops and make it more interesting by delivering new maps, a wider tier - spread. Better rewards are necessary too, often combined with higher demands on the players. "Atlantic Wall Defense" gave clear indication of that people actually are willing to learn and improve IMHO. A very promising development and benefitting the game in total. I discussed this with @Frostbow and @DDG44_Vet. 

 

Edited June 25 by OT2_2

[Andrewbassg]

28 minutes ago, OT2_2 said:

I didn't know that about ops. WG should give much more attention to Ops and make it more interesting by delivering new maps, a wider tier - spread. Better rewards are necessary too, often combined with higher demands on the players. "Atlantic Wall Defense" gave clear indication of that people actually are willing to learn and improve IMHO. A very promising development and benefitting the game in total. I discussed this with @Frostbow and @DDG44_Vet. 

 

Yeah......... well, Wedgie ALWAYS treated ops as an unwanted child, questioned their legitimacy, removed some and we had to literally fight ( and for years) to get back some and even than they "managed" to butcher them.

As @xamdam  @Vader_Samaand @Volron being experts in ops , on par with Forgotten Void, can testify about that. Volron is THE best operations Cv player, across the board/servers. 

Edited June 25 by Andrewbassg

[Unlooky]

58 minutes ago, OT2_2 said:

I didn't know that about ops. WG should give much more attention to Ops and make it more interesting by delivering new maps, a wider tier - spread. Better rewards are necessary too, often combined with higher demands on the players. "Atlantic Wall Defense" gave clear indication of that people actually are willing to learn and improve IMHO. A very promising development and benefitting the game in total. I discussed this with @Frostbow and @DDG44_Vet. 

 

The operations rework seems like it had more net negatives than positives. Operations used to be a great way to earn 10 point commanders and some premium time; now we have none of that. 

[OT2_2]

14 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Operations used to be a great way to earn 10 point commanders and some premium time; now we have none of that. 

Which could be (and hopefully will) changed by WG again if the people in charge will be able to see the necessity of such a step. A long overdue step.

Edited June 25 by OT2_2

[OT2_2]

The constant desire to wait is one of WG's main issues. Always reactive, never way ahead and all this combined with serious errors.

 

Edited June 25 by OT2_2

[MnemonScarlet]

On 6/22/2024 at 5:48 AM, xamdam said:

I just had a 4 "man" div show up in Operation Narai and immediately start spamming "quick commands" (all of them... "get back, set a smoke screen, I need intelligence...") to where I had to mute them all in the first minute. Then as the match progressed, it was obvious they were either clueless or trolling. The other three of us did manage to complete the mission but... not fun at all and ofc, secondary missions not completed.

Yeah, I just stopped doing ops entirely cause I ran into that a few times. Absolute failure each time too.

[Frostbow]

4 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

The operations rework seems like it had more net negatives than positives. Operations used to be a great way to earn 10 point commanders and some premium time; now we have none of that. 

I find it better now.

Prior to the rework, we had a regular cycle of four Tier VI Operations followed by the Tier VII Narai. Now, the rework includes Tier VIII which I find very accommodating and player friendly. That change alone instantly enlarged the pool from where we can choose ships to bring. Shimanto, Vladivostok, Bayard, Kii, Vanguard, Lenin, Baltimore, Cleveland, Ochakov, Kiev, Akizuki, Mainz, Kagero, San Diego—the updated list of ships we can bring to Operations is endless.

Then for those who prefer grinding ships in PVE (like me), we can grind Tier VI → Tier IX in a mode that is infinitely better than Co-op. We can perform our roles in the Operation, and maximize our impact, thereby increasing Base XP. 

Another positive has been the removal of the 75,000 credit cost to remove the waiting time. (I think it was 75,000; I'm no longer sure now.)

The negatives, at least for me during the first month of the reworked Operations, was 'randomness' of it. Gone were the days when I can easily do a repeat of Aegis or Narai as soon as the current session was over. It was particularly important for me to do the same Operation again, and for a certain number of times, as I was learning the ins and outs of each one. With the rework, it took a bit more time before I became comfortable with Cherry Blossom and Ultimate Frontier in ship types that I do not often play.

 

[Type_93]

How are players buying high tier premiums and not knowing how to play them any different than players with 10’s of thousands of battles played and still terrible at the game?  
If a true new player were to buy a T10 premium and only play that, they are either going to learn the basics of high tier play after a few matches and be effective in that ship, or they won’t learn any game mechanics and will be terrible. 
starting at tier 1 or 10 is the same. The basic mechanics are the same. Why some people want to gate keep is just absurd.  

[Andrewbassg]

50 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

The operations rework seems like it had more net negatives than positives. Operations used to be a great way to earn 10 point commanders and some premium time; now we have none of that. 

Yep. And Wedgie even promised that they won't remove those rewards and periodically renew them.  For those who don't know, there were rewards for completing the stars (objectives), in each operation, for the first time. Which were very helpful for newcomers.I  played Newport News regularly when it was on rotation, exactly to help people 5 star out. 

 

32 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

 Now, the rework includes Tier VIII

T8 ops existed before. Wedgie removed them. As for tier separation, it was actually a blessing. There was a reason why T6, T7 and T8 ops existed separately. As a learning and progression curve.

Ops rework did much, much harm, as to the ops community, as for the game, as a whole. And even arguably to Wedgie , coz removed the incentive to buy T6-7 premiums.

 

[Andrewbassg]

38 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

The basic mechanics are the same.

Except, that at high tiers it is expected to already know the basics. There is zero chance to learn those quickly. 

41 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

Why some people want to gate keep is just absurd

Not at all. No gates degrade gameplay, ergo devalues the game.

42 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

How are players buying high tier premiums and not knowing how to play them any different than players with 10’s of thousands of battles played and still terrible at the game?

That is on the individual player. However opening the gates, it is on Wedgie. Period

[Frostbow]

4 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

T8 ops existed before. Wedgie removed them. As for tier separation, it was actually a blessing. There was a reason why T6, T7 and T8 ops existed separately. As a learning and progression curve.

I did not know that. I started playing Operations rather late already.

As for the learning and progression curve, I am not sure if I could agree to an arrangement where Operations are separated based on Tiers, given that Operations are scripted and the bots are at the same Tier or even lower, than ships that the players brought with them.

8 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

coz removed the incentive to buy T6-7 premiums.

In the absence of financial data, I cannot dwell on that. If WG is (or was) financially bleeding, then there is no lack of tools, options, that they can use to stop it.