I am somewhat conflicted

[Lord_Slayer]

On the one hand, I do want to see the game prosper and new blood enter the game. One of the ways to introduce the game is by Youtubers/Streamers playing the game, which from what I have seen has encouraged more interest in WoWS.

On the other hand, I fully understand someone should not race up tech tree. I fully understand lower tiers are full of bots and not over all interesting, but its not fair to people who have played for a time and 'earned' their Tier lvl.

So there are a series of Vtubers out there and they are getting into WoWs.

Which bring us to this:

The Vtuber I have been watching (and trying to help via stream chat and a few sync drops) has 25 battles in Randoms, 21 in Co-Op, and a number of battles in Ops and the D-Day event. The are focusing on grinding the US CV line. Thus only have registered battles in the Erie, Chester, Langley, and Ranger. They were also gifted the AL Hornet. Due to the low battle count, WoWstats is non-existant, and Numbers is....well Numbers....

this is just Randoms:

 

Overall, the Vtuber has 'improved' but as an experienced WoWs player, I do cringe at target choices and and overall positioning. But I also don't want to drive the streamer away from the game, nor get banned in the chat.
Though, I have never seen someone so happy playing WoWs while streaming so....... It's been infectious enough that people in chat are apparently installing the game.

[Wolfswetpaws]

14 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

Though, I have never seen someone so happy playing WoWs while streaming so....... It's been infectious enough that people in chat are apparently installing the game.

I'm glad that "new blood" is learning the game, too.
I've seen some similar phenomena on Twitch streams with new streamers or streamers trying WOWs to diversify their streaming portfolio.

My suggestion is:  "Praise and reward the behavior you want to receive".

If they ask, you can provide answers in a positive and supportive manner and provide links to additional resources for learning.  🙂 

[ArIskandir]

6 hours ago, Lord_Slayer said:

Though, I have never seen someone so happy playing WoWs while streaming so....... It's been infectious enough that people in chat are apparently installing the game.

Let it be, there'll be an answer, let it  be

[Ensign Cthulhu]

14 hours ago, Lord_Slayer said:

Though, I have never seen someone so happy playing WoWs while streaming so....... It's been infectious enough that people in chat are apparently installing the game.

Who's the Vtuber? Sounds like it's worth a watch.

[Wolfswetpaws]

8 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Let it be, there'll be an answer, let it  be

The Beatles - Let It Be

 
 

[Utt_Bugglier]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

The Beatles - Let It Be

 
 

I hope that’s the album version with the guitar solos, and not the single version with the keyboard dubbed over.

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 minutes ago, Utt_Bugglier said:

I hope that’s the album version with the guitar solos, and not the single version with the keyboard dubbed over.

If you are curious, then follow it to the youtube page and read the information included below the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGj85pVzRJs

 

[Utt_Bugglier]

33 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

If you are curious, then follow it to the youtube page and read the information included below the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGj85pVzRJs

 

Nah, when I want to listen to it, I just go to Apple Music and listen off the album.

Life’s too short to listen to Beatles mixes I don’t want, for example: If I want to listen to “I’m Looking Through You” I know I gotta go to the US release of Rubber Soul, pick the mono version - just to get that first four seconds of the false start, because that’s the way I heard the song for 40+ years.

[Wolfswetpaws]

Well.  Alrighty then.

[HogHammer]

15 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I'm glad that "new blood" is learning the game, too.

I, too, am glad that new players are entering the game.  However, it's the learning or lack of learning that I am really concerned with.

I'm going to get brutally honest here @Lord_Slayer, and it may offend a few players/forum members, but there is no way that a player with just 3 games below tier 5 should even attempt to play a T8 ship if they are actually new to WoWs.  Forget about the impact in-game in a tier 8 battle for regular long-time players.  Let us just focus on the new player for a moment.  It is highly unlikely that a new player has even the faintest concept of the basics - aiming, roles of ship classes, angles, etc.  Although WG provides basic tutorials for such, I have to wonder what percentage of new players actually take the time to watch and then practice those lessons at tiers below tier 5.

I don't see how any player can actually get a feel for the capabilities of a given ship only playing one game in it.  Sorry, but it's impossible.

We have not even touched on actual game strategies yet. Perhaps a bigger issue in the current game player base is a complete lack of knowledge of cap control, positioning, etc.

Without the basics and a level of understanding of the game, new players, for the most part, just get frustrated and leave the game.  In the short term, it may benefit WG in $, but for the overall health of the game, it does no good.

If I had one word of advice for the above-referenced player interested in creating YouTube videos or even streaming on Twitch, I'd say go back to the lower tiers and record and/or stream your early learning endeavors.  Explaining what they have learned, how they learned, and utilizing that knowledge in-game would greatly benefit new players like them.  Really, that is something I would actually watch and find of interest.  I'm sure new players who may be struggling would also find benefit in such videos since they could easily relate to the experience.

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 minutes ago, HogHammer said:

I, too, am glad that new players are entering the game.  However, it's the learning or lack of learning that I am really concerned with.

I'm going to get brutally honest here @Lord_Slayer, and it may offend a few players/forum members, but there is no way that a player with just 3 games below tier 5 should even attempt to play a T8 ship if they are actually new to WoWs.  Forget about the impact in-game in a tier 8 battle for regular long-time players.  Let us just focus on the new player for a moment.  It is highly unlikely that a new player has even the faintest concept of the basics - aiming, roles of ship classes, angles, etc.  Although WG provides basic tutorials for such, I have to wonder what percentage of new players actually take the time to watch and then practice those lessons at tiers below tier 5.

I don't see how any player can actually get a feel for the capabilities of a given ship only playing one game in it.  Sorry, but it's impossible.

We have not even touched on actual game strategies yet. Perhaps a bigger issue in the current game player base is a complete lack of knowledge of cap control, positioning, etc.

Without the basics and a level of understanding of the game, new players, for the most part, just get frustrated and leave the game.  In the short term, it may benefit WG in $, but for the overall health of the game, it does no good.

If I had one word of advice for the above-referenced player interested in creating YouTube videos or even streaming on Twitch, I'd say go back to the lower tiers and record and/or stream your early learning endeavors.  Explaining what they have learned, how they learned, and utilizing that knowledge in-game would greatly benefit new players like them.  Really, that is something I would actually watch and find of interest.  I'm sure new players who may be struggling would also find benefit in such videos since they could easily relate to the experience.

 

While there is a healthy amount of "common sense" in your post (quoted above ^^^^), I'm reminded of the early part of my WOWs career when I got a 24 hour rental of the Yamato.

I was like a kid in a candy-store, giggle-y and happy.  🙂 
Sure, I got some salty chat about not playing the Yamato as well as others might have liked.
But, after I got over the "sticker shock" of the cost of post-battle service, I did have an enjoyable time and had the sentiment of "I want one!"  🙂 

[Ferdinand_Max]

5 minutes ago, HogHammer said:

I, too, am glad that new players are entering the game.  However, it's the learning or lack of learning that I am really concerned with.

I'm going to get brutally honest here @Lord_Slayer, and it may offend a few players/forum members, but there is no way that a player with just 3 games below tier 5 should even attempt to play a T8 ship if they are actually new to WoWs.  Forget about the impact in-game in a tier 8 battle for regular long-time players.  Let us just focus on the new player for a moment.  It is highly unlikely that a new player has even the faintest concept of the basics - aiming, roles of ship classes, angles, etc.  Although WG provides basic tutorials for such, I have to wonder what percentage of new players actually take the time to watch and then practice those lessons at tiers below tier 5.

I don't see how any player can actually get a feel for the capabilities of a given ship only playing one game in it.  Sorry, but it's impossible.

We have not even touched on actual game strategies yet. Perhaps a bigger issue in the current game player base is a complete lack of knowledge of cap control, positioning, etc.

Without the basics and a level of understanding of the game, new players, for the most part, just get frustrated and leave the game.  In the short term, it may benefit WG in $, but for the overall health of the game, it does no good.

If I had one word of advice for the above-referenced player interested in creating YouTube videos or even streaming on Twitch, I'd say go back to the lower tiers and record and/or stream your early learning endeavors.  Explaining what they have learned, how they learned, and utilizing that knowledge in-game would greatly benefit new players like them.  Really, that is something I would actually watch and find of interest.  I'm sure new players who may be struggling would also find benefit in such videos since they could easily relate to the experience.

 

Even then, tiers can be extremely different so there is no choice but to progress tier by tier. On my previous account, I spent hundreds of games playing tiers 1 to 5 before buying Vanguard.

I had no f***ing clue what I was doing. I ended up just following a clanmate in his battleship while we pushed the flank... all my knowledge previous to this was worthless. So after that game I shelved the Vanguard except for COOP and kept progressing through tech line.

[HogHammer]

4 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I'm reminded of the early part of my WOWs career when I got a 24 hour rental of the Yamato.

I was like a kid in a candy-store, giggle-y and happy.  🙂 
Sure, I got some salty chat about not playing the Yamato as well as others might have liked.

I've been there too.  I would venture a guess most here have been in the same situation.  And, boy was I on the receiving end of the salty chat.  It was so bad that I remember it vividly to this very day.

I only wish I had had someone point out my early errors in judgment. My lack of complete knowledge of the game forced me to seek out information from the old forum and numerous videos. I practiced what I learned. However, I do wonder to what degree current new players actually take the time and effort to learn the game.

To a certain degree, I do believe veteran players of the game have an interest in helping new players - in the long run, it's good for the game. 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

32 minutes ago, HogHammer said:

there is no way that a player with just 3 games below tier 5 should even attempt to play a T8 ship if they are actually new to WoWs. 

Thinking along this line is why I chose not to buy the Belfast when we were warned she would soon be pulled from sale. I didn't think I would be able to drive her competently, but I knew that if I had her, I would want to play her. Back then, experienced players railing against newbs in high-tier ships was as much of a thing as it is now. So, basically out of fear of peer pressure, I let her go. 

She eventually turned up in a Santa crate in 2022, while I was busy spamming them in an effort to get something else that was banned-as-F (any one of the three Kamikazes). So that mistake got undone, by the whims of chance.

Had I realized back then just how much co-op I'd be playing (because major events got opened to PvE in the latter half of 2018), I'd have bought the Belfast and parked her until I was in a position to use her appropriately.

So while I agree that new players should recognize their limitations and not go charging into PVP with high-tier premiums when they're barely out of their Black Swans, what I went through is one of the reasons I wouldn't go so far as to ban them from buying ships in tiers they hadn't ground up to yet.

 

There are some other things I keep in mind:

1) Persistence in the face of failure is a critical, important thing to learn in this game.

2) The vast majority of complaints I see on these forums and elsewhere come from experienced players who lost because the hopeless noob was on their team, which suffered for the lack of skill. I'm not aware of any complaints from people whose red-stat opponents handed them a Kraken on a platter. Everyone is quite happy to kill gormless n00bs; nobody wants to carry them.

3) You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. If the new players coming into the game can't be bothered to learn the essentials, compared to their predecessors who kicked off the live server on launch day in 2015, maybe that's symptomatic of a broader (and more worrying) change in society as a whole over the past eight years. Sadly, discussing it further would be going into politics, so I won't go there.

Edited June 20 by Ensign Cthulhu

[thornzero]

32 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

There are some other things I keep in mind:

1) Persistence in the face of failure is a critical, important thing to learn in this game.

This is probably a main point of my progress particularly in pvp.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, HogHammer said:

I've been there too.  I would venture a guess most here have been in the same situation.  And, boy was I on the receiving end of the salty chat.  It was so bad that I remember it vividly to this very day.

I only wish I had had someone point out my early errors in judgment. My lack of complete knowledge of the game forced me to seek out information from the old forum and numerous videos. I practiced what I learned. However, I do wonder to what degree current new players actually take the time and effort to learn the game.

To a certain degree, I do believe veteran players of the game have an interest in helping new players - in the long run, it's good for the game. 

We all start with a handful of Tier-1 ships.

We're not paid to play this game, so we're not "professional" players.
Which is why I don't expect "pro-level" behavior from players.

Besides, there are times when it is fun to watch the silly antics that children, around 6 to 8 years old, do when learning to play a sport.
Similar stuff gets done by "newbies" in WOWs.
I'd like to be supportive instead of critical and allow for "learning experiences" to happen. 
I feel that it's more fun to laugh as though the situation were a "drinking story".  🙂 

Remember, "no pixels were actually harmed during this game".  🙂 

[Justin_Simpleton]

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

3) You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. If the new players coming into the game can't be bothered to learn the essentials, compared to their predecessors who kicked off the live server on launch day in 2015, maybe that's symptomatic of a broader (and more worrying) change in society as a whole over the past eight years. Sadly, discussing it further would be going into politics, so I won't go there.

Edited 43 minutes ago by Ensign Cthulhu

In the early days of this game there were fewer ships to learn about.  The players were experienced gamers who knew each other and their participation in clans was rewarding through that comradery.  Naturally, a developed meta of how to play and was further honed in equal competition.  That's not the way it is anymore.  The newer players have a much larger set of ships to become aware of and they have to figure out what the established meta play is all at once.  I see the older players as newbie trainers.  The trainers have great ability to play this game but struggle to transfer this knowledge.  

[Jakob Knight]

There is simply no substitute for experience, nor any quick way to impart it.  That's true in a game as it is in life.  You just have to do a thing to learn it right.

 

That said, I remember the enthusiasm I had when I first started and the simple joy of sailing warships I was barely aware existed before I found myself on their bridge.  Each ship was a window I looked through to learn about the real one, and each battle a glimpse into what such a ship could and could not do.  Getting Atago as a replacement for my Kitakami intrigued me to the point I applied myself to learn how to play the ship even though I was not experienced in T8 heavy Cruisers at the time (still one of my favorite ships in the game).

 

So, yes, maybe the vtuber isn't a competent player.  Yet.  But as long as they keep their enthusiasm, they will become one in order to play the new ships that await them.  Encourage that enthusiasm while also letting them know there is more to see and learn in the game yet to come.

 

 

Edited June 20 by Jakob Knight

[I_cant_Swim_]

24 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

Encourage that enthusiasm while also letting them know there is more to see and learn in the game yet to come.

In a nutshell. C'est ça.

[Lord_Slayer]

6 hours ago, HogHammer said:

 

I'm going to get brutally honest here @Lord_Slayer, and it may offend a few players/forum members, but there is no way that a player with just 3 games below tier 5 should even attempt to play a T8 ship if they are actually new to WoWs.  Forget about the impact in-game in a tier 8 battle for regular long-time players.  Let us just focus on the new player for a moment.  It is highly unlikely that a new player has even the faintest concept of the basics - aiming, roles of ship classes, angles, etc.

 

 

6 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

Even then, tiers can be extremely different so there is no choice but to progress tier by tier. On my previous account, I spent hundreds of games playing tiers 1 to 5 before buying Vanguard.

I had no f***ing clue what I was doing. I ended up just following a clanmate in his battleship while we pushed the flank... all my knowledge previous to this was worthless. So after that game I shelved the Vanguard except for COOP and kept progressing through tech line.

This is the conflict I am referring too.

I remember when Tirpitz dropped, the first German Premium BB. While I did get it, I played it only in Co-Op as I had not yet achieved a T8 ship. I remember reading in the forum of all the complaints about people watching Tirpitzs playing like DDs to get in torp range.

Myself, as a Corgi, I had access to all the ships in game as well as premiums (including Ark Beta). During 'off' periods, we could sail in any Tier we wanted.
I went immediately for Yamato.

That was an eye opener.


As for the Vtuber: Magi_41

https://www.twitch.tv/magi_41
https://www.youtube.com/@Magi41VT
 

Yes, she is going for Midway, hence the CV grind. She also made Affiliate within 7 days of streaming.

There are also another Fleet member who plays WoWs.

https://www.twitch.tv/wisky64vt
Last I saw, she had reached Colorado, I do not know, but don't think she got Wisconsin.
 

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

5 hours ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

In the early days of this game there were fewer ships to learn about.  The players were experienced gamers who knew each other and their participation in clans was rewarding through that comradery.  Naturally, a developed meta of how to play and was further honed in equal competition.  That's not the way it is anymore.  The newer players have a much larger set of ships to become aware of and they have to figure out what the established meta play is all at once.  I see the older players as newbie trainers.  The trainers have great ability to play this game but struggle to transfer this knowledge.  

While there are more ships and Commanders, there is also a tool to know about the ship in battle.
Hover one's mouse over the team-roster screen and a particular ship, and the game will provide a summary of the ship's capabilties.
So, memorizing millions of "Baseball Cards" worth of statistics isn't strictly necessary.

[Ferdinand_Max]

6 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

While there are more ships and Commanders, there is also a tool to know about the ship in battle.
Hover one's mouse over the team-roster screen and a particular ship, and the game will provide a summary of the ship's capabilties.
So, memorizing millions of "Baseball Cards" worth of statistics isn't strictly necessary.

Those stats are only the very basic overview though. They don't give you stuff such as armor setup, location of the citadel, turret angles and so on.

Personally however, I mostly only try to memorize armor layout to know how and where to aim, and in particular whether the ship in question has turtleback or low-lying citadel. Beyond that I only bother with general characteristics (e.g. UK destroyers = cap contesters, low-tier German destroyers = brawling torpedo gunboats, Japanese destroyers = torpedo farm).

[Wolfswetpaws]

10 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

Those stats are only the very basic overview though. They don't give you stuff such as armor setup, location of the citadel, turret angles and so on.

Yeah, just the essentials.  Similar to "Cliff Notes" which used to be fashionable in academic pursuits.  🙂 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

On 6/20/2024 at 7:41 PM, Lord_Slayer said:

As for the Vtuber: Magi_41

They're... bouncy.

Slightly manic in a fun, harmless way. Be advised: lots of F bombs.

[Wolfswetpaws]

Had fun watching Magi_41's Twitch stream, tonight.  Saw @Lord_Slayer among the viewing audience.  🙂