Lesta is goin' PaytoWin

[Unlooky]

2 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

Getting rid of Detonations and not only the numbers of flags but the restrictions on which you can use is obvious pandering to a certain crowd in the community that can't deal with complex battle situations and just wants a beer and pretzel game.

Explain to me how detonations make the game better in any way, shape, or form

[Jakob Knight]

24 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Explain to me how detonations make the game better in any way, shape, or form

It introduces an element into taking damage that cannot be reliably mitigated in normal gameplay or predicted.  This encourages players to be cautious in taking large amounts of damage with impunity and incentivizes weighing the possible consequences of such actions against the gains, further introducing more complex decision making that would not be present if all factors could be reliably predicted in the combat system.

 

To sum up, even the toughest ship has to be cautious taking heavy strikes rather than simply relying on rate of hp loss.  In short, it rewards players who play smarter and penalizes players who play dumber.

 

 

 

Edited June 18 by Jakob Knight

[Unlooky]

Just now, Jakob Knight said:

It introduces an element into taking damage that cannot be reliably mitigated in normal gameplay or predicted.  This encourages players to be cautious in taking large amounts of damage with impunity and incentives weighing the possible consequences of such actions against the gains, further introducing more complex decision making that would not be present if all factors could be reliably predicted in the combat system.

 

To sum up, even the toughest ship has to be cautious taking heavy strikes rather than simply relying on rate of hp loss.

So it adds RNG.

No skill involved whatsoever and can be completely negated by a purchasable flag that serves no purpose other than a tax to negate BS. 

How do people unironically think this makes the game better? 

[BlueMax1916]

I have one BB that can be detonated by a stray shell on the right place. No full salvo needed. Only RNG. Happened several times now. That is the ship where I always mount this flag. Mind you, on a BB, not a DD.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

I generally apologize when I detonate some poor soul with an aerial torpedo or HE bomb.

Doesn't feel earned.

[Andrewbassg]

31 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Explain to me how detonations make the game better in any way, shape, or form

it is an added,. uncontrollable balancing factor, affecting players, regardless of skill.

Still, that's not the problem, but the continuous dumbing down of the game, which is an ongoing process. Every step in that direction, in fact and in effect, devalues the game

 

 

[Unlooky]

1 minute ago, Andrewbassg said:

it is an added,. uncontrollable balancing factor, affecting players, regardless of skill.

Still, that's not the problem, but the continuous dumbing down of the game, which is an ongoing process. Every step in that direction, in fact and in effect, devalues the game

One could make this argument if it weren't for the fact that the detonation flag exists.

If Wargaming had truly wanted it to be some sort of RNG skill equalizer, then they would not have added a flag which completely negates any possibility of a detonation. 

Now, it serves as a check to see who can afford to run the detonation flag every game, and who can't. 

[Andrewbassg]

4 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I generally apologize when I detonate some poor soul with an aerial torpedo or HE bomb.

 It is not your fault. His it is.

[Andrewbassg]

3 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

One could make this argument if it weren't for the fact that the detonation flag exists.

If Wargaming had truly wanted it to be some sort of RNG skill equalizer, then they would not have added a flag which completely negates any possibility of a detonation. 

Now, it serves as a check to see who can afford to run the detonation flag every game, and who can't.

 And who knows about it. Still little things like that sets ( or used to ) apart Wows from other arcade shooters. It ads depth and increases and widens the  appeal.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

31 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

To sum up, even the toughest ship has to be cautious taking heavy strikes rather than simply relying on rate of hp loss. 

You don't have to take a heavy strike. I've sunk ships with detonations using mid-tier rework-CV torpedo bombers, and a single drop from those simply DOES NOT have heavy alpha strike potential. 

If these changes come to WOWS, I won't be sad to see detonations go - even if they are historically accurate (just ask the British).

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

16 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

 It is not your fault. His it is.

Fault is not what I'm apologizing for...

More that it's a bad way to get sent back to port.

Remember, I'm not playing for hard core competitiveness...but more for fun.

I'm happiest when everyone is having a good match.

[Verblonde]

31 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

just ask the British

"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today."

[Ensign Cthulhu]

6 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today."

Lax ammunition handling. They violated principles and paid for it. 

[Jakob Knight]

54 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

So it adds RNG.

No skill involved whatsoever and can be completely negated by a purchasable flag that serves no purpose other than a tax to negate BS. 

How do people unironically think this makes the game better? 

 

There is skill involved when you know the mechanics.  To be detonated, you have to have already taken some damage, the hit has to be large enough to penetrate (so no small hits like secondaries or DD gun hits), and that hit has to be on a magazine.  Thus, a skilled commander will limit the visibility of their magazine spaces, control where torpedoes hit their ship as possible, and evaluate the condition of the engagement to limit the conditions that cause detonations.  Unskilled commanders will keep their magazines exposed, disregard the condition of their ship, and not be mindful of risking detonations.  It's RNG that the players can control to some extent when it will be applied based on their chosen actions.

 

And yes, you can use the flag to temporarily alter standard gameplay to remove detonations.  But you can't do it forever...sooner or later, you will have to default back to relying on your skill as a player to avoid detonations.

30 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

 

 

34 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

You don't have to take a heavy strike. I've sunk ships with detonations using mid-tier rework-CV torpedo bombers, and a single drop from those simply DOES NOT have heavy alpha strike potential. 

 

 

Torpedoes automatically do penetrating damage equivalent to a heavy cruiser or battleship AP shell (or more), so yes..they do have heavy individual alpha strike damage that is applied below the waterline.  The target you detonated was probably already damaged (had to be for Detonations to be enabled), so the conditions were met and the target got unlucky when they had the roll result.  Against a light cruiser or destroyer shell, it would not have detonated.

 

In either case, the enemy had to weigh the risk in where they were and what they were doing with a detonation as a known wildcard rather than being confident that you could not sink them, as it would be without.

 

 

 

[Andrewbassg]

13 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

They violated principles and paid for it

U mean they didnt hoist the proper flag...

[Ensign Cthulhu]

1 minute ago, Andrewbassg said:

U mean they didnt hoist the proper flag...

Hoisting the proper flag is a reflection of accepting safe ammo handling standards. 

[Andrewbassg]

1 minute ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Hoisting the proper flag is a reflection of accepting safe ammo handling standards. 

And voila: a game's depth and appeal.

[SolitudeFreak]

7 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

the hit has to be large enough to penetrate (so no small hits like secondaries or DD gun hits)

I think that is incorrect. An he splash intersecting with the magazine module causes a detonation roll while you are under 75% HP.

All the mitigation you talk about for detonations boils down to punishing tanking or aggressiveness and rewarding passive play.

Gonna be honest, you are reaching hard if you are trying to say detonation is skill based. And if it is skill based, there's really no excuse for Juliet Charlie existing.

[Jakob Knight]

5 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Hoisting the proper flag is a reflection of accepting safe ammo handling standards. 

 

I rather think of using the flag as putting the ammunition in special blowout storage compartments that are expensive to maintain and replace, but offer complete safety.  The det reduction mods I see as more proper handling procedures and securing regulations, since an accident can still happen, if reduced.   

 

 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

9 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

I rather think of using the flag as putting the ammunition in special blowout storage compartments that are expensive to maintain and replace, but offer complete safety. 

Or changing out your old cordite for fresh. At least two British warships (Natal, Vanguard '09) blew up dockside because of cordite decay. 

Edited June 18 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Jakob Knight]

1 minute ago, SolitudeFreak said:

I think that is incorrect. An he splash intersecting with the magazine module causes a detonation roll while you are under 75% HP.

All the mitigation you talk about for detonations boils down to punishing tanking or aggressiveness and rewarding passive play.

Gonna be honest, you are reaching hard if you are trying to say detonation is skill based. And if it is skill based, there's really no excuse for Juliet Charlie existing.

 

 

I don't think I've ever heard of an HE shell that didn't penetrate the armor rating of the magazine causing a det.  In my experience, it's always been heavy pen hits like AP, Torpedoes, Bombs, or very high caliber HE against paper thin armor units like a Smolensk (and I've never personally seen an HE shot do it).

 

And I mean it is skill affected as to how often you have detonation mechanics apply to you.  If you sail broadside to an enemy BB at close range, you will almost certainly be detonated much more than if you maintain a high angle that masks your magazines and take evasive action.  If you act like you are invincible rather than understanding risk, Detonation is there to remind you of David and Goliath.

 

 

 

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, SolitudeFreak said:

2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Since two of the four categories of signals cannot be directly purchased, where the <bleep> is the "pay to win", exactly?

The question was never about direct purchase. If the flag rework follows the same model as the bonus rework, there is the possibility of blue flag sets consistently being available through indirect purchase via event containers, similar to how you can currently purchase randomized blue bonuses.

This is of course speculation about MK and not WoWS, and as the two have been veering away from each other as far as development is concerned, there's no saying that it would have an impact about this system in WoWS.

"Whales" are gonna "whale".  So purchasing of loot-crates of various natures and sizes is nothing new.
And the game is run by people who are in business to make a profit.
So, offering "products" which allow whales to get what they want and the company to make money also seems like nothing new.

But, the "blue" and "red" or "rare" and "elite" categories of products aren't available for direct purchase.

Perhaps it is just me, but I'm guessing that the new equivalents of current in-game signal-flags will be utilized by those who have already accumulated a fair amount of them or who have the financial wherewithal to acquire them.
The "competitive" players will already have no problem bleeding their wallets as though they were funding a Forumula-1 racing team.
The "casual" players, I imagine will continue to play as they usually do and collect their flags & bonuses through normal game-play to keep them in their inventory until there is a special occasion.

From what I've read in the past, the rumors are that the detonation mechanic is not 100% popular with players.
Those who have advocated for removing detonation from the game are likely to be happy.
I figure it is a "player retention" action by Mir Korabli.

This situation, even if it were to be implemented on NA/EU/ASIA, doesn't seem like something to get my feathers ruffled about.
So, I'm still curious to know why some people consider it to be a big deal or a "sky is falling" event?

[KJ82]

3 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

Man I can't go not even 5 min into the video without fact checking the author...

WOWP was never *AGAIN* Never developed by Lesta Std. of St Pete. (this is as absolute insult).

WOWP was developed by a company based out of Ukraine.

*AGAIN* Lesta std back in the day.. ONLY developed WOWS content for WG.

LEsta studios NEVER did WOT (Its exclusivity to WG. That MEANS, WG is the sole body governing its development.)

LEsta Studios NEVER did WOWP. (Its under contract with Persha std since their creation. Lesta never had a hand on WOWP)

So simple question.. When there's contractual franchise development contracts that are still valid to this day.. Why would anyone think you can Void those agreements without punishments?

Its because of this neglect in reporting anything factual.. I can never take the author of the video seriously.

Neither should anyone else.

I stopped watching him after a few videos and told YT to never recommend them anymore. The few i watched was mostly clickbait, without any meaningful information.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

So it adds RNG.

No skill involved whatsoever and can be completely negated by a purchasable flag that serves no purpose other than a tax to negate BS. 

How do people unironically think this makes the game better? 

If I study the armor scheme of a ship and realize that a torpedo which travels under the bow of a ship and hits the underside of the hull (just below the turret and magazine) has a good chance of triggering a detonation check, then I might try to aim so that I can improve my chances of sinking an opponent in a spectacular fashion.

Will it work every time?  Probably not.
But when it does ....   🙂 

[Aethervox]

5 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Closed testing 13.6 - signal processing

Since when has any major change to WoWS been beneficial? This is more GARBAGE.