Lesta is goin' PaytoWin

[Andrewbassg]

 

https://blog.korabli.su/blog/545

 

 

I guess its hard when the filthy, decadent, liberal moneyz is not flowing .......

 

 

 

 

[oldblackdog]

Yeah...this is complete crap. Wonder how long before WoWS NA follows suit...

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

It's just going further towards pay2win, the base mechanic is already in our game...

[Kruzenstern]

I am very interested in when this will come to the servers in the free world. I mean, it has been like half a year (or more?) since Lesta servers got ops for tiers 9+, which is something I would love for them to give us too. So, being a firm believer in Murphy, I am assuming that something that I don't want will hit us much sooner...

[Tpaktop2_1 NA]

This reminds me of the WoT tank rounds controversy where some WoT players spend $$$ to buy rounds, then tried to resell them back to WG at a higher trade in price.  If they are doing this for signals, then gold rounds for WoWS are not that far behind the signal changes.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

 

Translated text of the MK blog:

 

Closed testing 13.6 - signal processing

Find out more about upcoming changes.

 

In update 13.6 we plan to update the signal system: they will be divided into 4 levels, similar to economic bonuses: standard, special, rare and elite*. At the same time, there will be fewer types of signals. In addition, the detonation mechanics have been removed from the game, and it will again be possible to receive signals for achievements.

*Together with updating the signals, we will change and systematize the names of the “red” in-game entities. Unique economic bonuses and “red” signals will be called elite. This word better describes them, since uniqueness presupposes the existence of something in a single copy and uniqueness, and the number of signals and bonuses a player has is not limited. Accordingly, the “Unique Bonuses” container will be renamed “Elite Bonuses”, and unique upgrades will also be called elite to preserve the consistency of names.

New signals

There are currently 14 signals available in the game, and each of them has its own specifics and is not effective on all ships, and you can install no more than 8 of them. After the changes, there will be 6 signals in the game, the bonuses of which will suit all ships in the game. Thus, it is easier to understand the new system, and the player will not accumulate unnecessary signals that may not be suitable for the ships he is playing on. In addition, the limit on the number of signals on the ship will be removed: you will be able to install everything at the same time. Finally, the prices of the new signals are unified to simplify the system.

 

Admin edit: Through no fault of the poster, clicking on the images below may trigger a malware warning for the associated site. I cannot see a justifiable risk under the associated links, but user discretion is advised.

Each of the new signals enhances a specific aspect of the ship: survivability, damage, auxiliary weapons, speed, equipment and damage resistance. In the table below you can see the names and bonuses of the signals depending on the level.

Signal	Standard	Special	Rare	Elite
November (Vitality)	Ship's combat effectiveness +2% Fire extinguishing time -10% Flood elimination time -10%	Ship's combat effectiveness +3% Fire extinguishing time -15% Flood elimination time -15%	Ship's combat effectiveness +4% Fire extinguishing time -20% Flood elimination time -20%	Ship's combat effectiveness +5% Fire extinguishing time -25% Flood elimination time -25%
Yankee (Damage dealt)	Maximum dispersion of main battery shells -2% Maximum dispersion of squadron ammunition -2% Chance of arson +1% Chance to cause flooding +10%	Maximum dispersion of main battery shells -3% Maximum dispersion of squadron ammunition -3% Chance of arson +1.5% Chance to cause flooding +20%	Maximum dispersion of main battery shells -4% Maximum dispersion of squadron ammunition -4% Chance of arson +2% Chance to cause flooding +30%	Maximum dispersion of main battery shells -5% Maximum dispersion of squadron ammunition -5% Chance of arson +3% Chance to cause flooding +40%
Foxtrot (Auxiliary weapons)	Maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells -5% Secondary battery reload time -5% Constant air defense damage +5% Torpedo speed +2% Aircraft torpedo speed +2%	Maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells -6% Secondary battery reload time -6% Constant air defense damage +6% Torpedo speed +4% Aircraft torpedo speed +4%	Maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells -8% Secondary battery reload time -8% Constant air defense damage +8% Torpedo speed +6% Aircraft torpedo speed +6%	Maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells -10% Secondary battery reload time -10% Constant air defense damage +10% Torpedo speed +8% Aircraft torpedo speed +8%
Sierra (Speed)	Ship speed +5% Squadron afterburner time +10%	Ship speed +6% Squadron afterburner time +12%	Ship speed +8% Squadron afterburner time +16%	Ship speed +10% Squadron afterburner time +20%
India (Equipment)	Preparation and reloading time for ship equipment -5% Squadron equipment reload time -5% Ship equipment operating time +5% Squadron equipment operating time +5%	Preparation and reloading time for ship equipment -6% Squadron equipment reload time -6% Ship equipment operating time +6% Squadron equipment operating time +6%	Preparation and reloading time for ship equipment -8% Squadron equipment reload time -8% Ship equipment operating time +8% Squadron equipment operating time +8%	Preparation and reloading time for ship equipment -10% Squadron equipment reload time -10% Ship equipment operating time +10% Squadron equipment operating time +10%
Charlie (Damage Resistance)	Dispersion of enemy shells attacking you +2% Damage taken from depth charges -5% Reduced damage from air defense shell explosions -5%	Dispersion of enemy shells attacking you +3% Damage taken from depth charges -6% Reduced damage from air defense shell explosions -10%	Dispersion of enemy shells attacking you +4% Damage taken from depth charges -8% Reduced damage from air defense shell explosions -15%	Dispersion of enemy shells attacking you +5% Damage taken from depth charges -10% Reduced damage from air defense shell explosions -20%

Conversion

All signals on player accounts will be replaced with new standard ones. Most of the bonuses of these signals are equal in value or similar in principle to the bonuses of converted signals. At the same time, the value of some of the standard signal bonuses will be less than in the old system in order to reduce the excessive impact on the ship’s efficiency. The exchange will take place according to the following rules:

• India Delta, India Yankee and Juliet Yankee Bissotwo will be converted to November.
• Victor Lima, India X-Ray and Juliet Whiskey Unaone will be converted to Yankee.
• November Echo Setteseven and Mike Yankee Soxisix will be converted to Foxtrot.
• Sierra Mike will be converted to Sierra.
• November Foxtrot, X-Ray Papa Unaone and Sierra Bravo will be converted to India.
• Juliet Charlie and Hotel Yankee will be converted to Charlie.

The number of new signals will be equal to the sum of the old ones converted into a new one. You will also receive one signal of each type and level to familiarize yourself with the new system. For example, if you have 100 India Delta, 30 India Yankee and no Juliet Yankee Bissotwo, you will receive 131 standard November signals, as well as one each of its special, rare and elite versions.

Signals installed on ships will also be converted. In this case, a new signal will be installed on the ship if, before the update, it had at least one old signal that is converted into this new one.

Related changes

Such a large-scale change could not but affect other aspects of the game. Let's take a closer look at the accompanying changes:

Range of secondary guns

The bonus to the firing range of the secondary gun, which the Mike Yankee Soxisix signal currently has, will be transferred to the Secondary Gun Modification 1 upgrade, installed in the third slot. Thus, it will provide +26%** to the firing range of the secondary gun, and the usual range of “secondary gun assemblies” will not change.

**The new upgrade bonus will be 26%, rather than 25%, to maintain the usual firing range. Let us give as an example the calculation of the firing range of the Massachusetts secondary gun, taking into account the modernization, signal and skill of the commander “Long-range shells of the secondary gun”. Before change: 7.5 x 1.2 x 1.2 x 1.05 = 11.34 km. After the change, upgrade bonus 25%: 7.5 x 1.2 x 1.25 = 11.25 km. After the change, the upgrade bonus is 26%: 7.5 x 1.2 x 1.26 = 11.34 km.

Detonation

The new system does not have a signal to reduce the likelihood of the ship's ammunition magazine exploding. This is because in version 13.6 we will be removing detonation from the game. Ships detonate randomly, causing a predominantly negative reaction. Due to the way the mechanics work, the player cannot deliberately cause an enemy to detonate. At the same time, the game has the opportunity, available for credits, to completely protect yourself by installing the Juliet Charlie signal. According to statistics, artillery cellar explosions occur extremely rarely, even if you do not take into account the use of a signal. Thus, the existence of this mechanic seems almost meaningless.

Disabling detonation will remove the extra element of randomness from battles: you will no longer be able to lose a ship with the lion’s share of its combat capability due to a “stray” torpedo or shell hitting it. Due to the change:

• The "Detonation" achievement will no longer be available for obtaining, but will remain on players' accounts if it has already been obtained. 
• The Ammunition Cellar Modification 1 upgrade will be removed from the game. It will be debited from accounts with its full cost (125,000 credits) charged for each existing upgrade as compensation. If it is installed on a ship, we will dismantle it for free and leave the slot free. 
• The Juliet Charlie signal, as mentioned above, will be converted to a standard Charlie, increasing damage resistance.

Signals as rewards

In most containers, the signals will be replaced with the corresponding standard signals. The exceptions will be the “More Signals” container (will contain signals of all levels) and the Super Container (will contain special, rare and elite signals). A detailed updated composition of containers will be available  on a special page on our portal  after version 13.6 is released on the main server.

The super container will undergo more significant changes: the probability of dropping ships, doubloons, steel, research points, free experience and elite experience of commanders will not change, however, in addition to special, rare and elite signals, elite economic bonuses will appear in the composition. In this regard, the probabilities of losing some content have been redistributed.

 

Contents and the likelihood of it falling out of the Supercontainer

• 7500 units coal - 10%;
• 1500 units steel - 1%;
• 1500 research points - 1%;
• 1000 doubloons - 4%;
• 25,000 units free experience - 6.5%;
• 75,000 units elite commander experience - 6.5%;
• 7 days of Ship Premium account - 5%;
• 25 special economic bonuses of one type - 27%;
• 15 rare economic bonuses of one type - 6%;
• 10 elite economic bonuses of one of the types - 2%;
• 30 special signals of one type - 19.5%;
• 20 rare signals of one of the types - 7.5%;
• 15 elite signals of one of the types - 3%;
• Premium or special ship (the list of available ships will not change) - 1%.

Signals issued as rewards in campaigns, for reaching access levels, and in special combat missions for beginners have also been replaced with similar standard signals.

Ways to distribute new signals

In the new system, high-level signals give larger bonuses than those existing now. We would like to outline the currently planned methods of distribution. Our intention is that they should be viewed primarily as rare and valuable assets.

The methods for receiving signals will depend on their level:

• It will be possible to receive elite signals very rarely during events, and also with a small chance from the “More Signals” container and the Super Container. They will not be freely available for direct sale. At the same time, players will have the opportunity to receive them as a reward for achievements in battles.
• Rare signals will be somewhat easier to receive. They will appear more often as part of various event rewards. At the same time, the number of signals available in this way will also be limited. Like elite signals, they have a small chance to drop from the “More Signals” container and the Super container. In addition, players will have the opportunity to receive them as a reward for achievements in battles.  They will not be freely available for direct sale.
• Special signals will be available for direct sale at the Armory for coal (20 signals for 16,000) or research points (10 signals for 200). They will also be found quite often among the rewards of various events. They can also be obtained from the “More Signals” container and the Super Container.
• Standard  signals will be easiest to obtain  . They will be available for direct sale in the Armory for credits (20 signals for 2,400,000) or coal (20 signals for 8,000). In addition, they will be part of a large number of containers and will often act as rewards in events. Also, as already mentioned, they will become a reward in most permanent activities instead of the signals of the old system previously available there. 

Along with the rework of the signal system, we will return the ability to receive  signals for achievements . The game will have access to constantly updated weekly chains of combat missions. There will be two chains in total. To complete the first one, you will need to receive any achievements based on the results of the battle, and its complete completion will bring 4 rare signals of each type. The second chain will require obtaining heroic achievements and, if fully completed, will bring 2 elite signals of each type.

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary. Announced changes and innovations may change many times during testing. The final information is published on the official portal.

 

• 

© Lesta Games, 2022–2024. World of Ships is based on the intellectual property of third parties. All rights to objects of third party rights belong to their legal owners.

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I don't see pay-to-win in any of this. Where is the $$$??

Point to it, please.

Edited June 18 by I_cant_Swim_
links may trigger probably false AV warnings

[Andrewbassg]

25 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I don't see pay-to-win in any of this. Where is the $$$??

Point to it, please.

 

25 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

They will appear more often as part of various event rewards.

 

25 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

They will also be found quite often among the rewards of various events.

 

And don't forget, who will have moar resources to "buy em", newcomers or vets?

Edited June 18 by Andrewbassg

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

It's just going further towards pay2win, the base mechanic is already in our game...

yeah but not to THIS extent...

[thornzero]

17 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I don't see pay-to-win in any of this. Where is the $$$??

Point to it, please.

It doesn't say it in the blog - but Mountbatton says in the video that he thinks they could be in the premium shop [not the armoury].

Either way, ranked will probably be affected the most. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

9 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

yeah but not to THIS extent...

Indeed.

The game becomes more pay2win than it already is.

In a way, that's more problematic than just becoming pay2win. Eventually, folks will no longer buy the flimsy denials by WG staff about reality.

3 minutes ago, thornzero said:

It doesn't say it in the blog - but Mountbatton says in the video that he thinks they could be in the premium shop [not the armoury].

Either way, ranked will probably be affected the most. 

As if most people don't buy event rewards...

Yes, competitive modes will be the most impacted.

[Verblonde]

35 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

artillery cellar

I rather like this translation of 'magazine'...

As to the subject in hand, I'll resist getting my knickers in a twist until it actually becomes a thing on the western servers.

[Jakob Knight]

Doesn't look like pay-to-win to me.  What it looks like is a dumbing down of the game to attract players who can't handle the degree of gameplay WOWS requires.  Getting rid of Detonations and not only the numbers of flags but the restrictions on which you can use is obvious pandering to a certain crowd in the community that can't deal with complex battle situations and just wants a beer and pretzel game.

 

Lesta must be desperate to get players to play their game if the previous changes they made to appeal to their playerbase have not succeeded in producing the numbers they want.

 

 

[ArIskandir]

45 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

• It will be possible to receive elite signals very rarely during events, and also with a small chance from the “More Signals” container and the Super Container. They will not be freely available for direct sale. At the same time, players will have the opportunity to receive them as a reward for achievements in battles.
• Rare signals will be somewhat easier to receive. They will appear more often as part of various event rewards. At the same time, the number of signals available in this way will also be limited. Like elite signals, they have a small chance to drop from the “More Signals” container and the Super container. In addition, players will have the opportunity to receive them as a reward for achievements in battles.  They will not be freely available for direct sale.

No direct sale. That's actually a nerf to P2W.  

And somehow this was missed in the noise...

45 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

in version 13.6 we will be removing detonation from the game.

 

Edited June 18 by ArIskandir

[Ensign Cthulhu]

24 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

And don't forget, who will have moar resources to "buy em", newcomers or vets?

Veteran players frequently buy coal and resource ships which deplete those resources and put them back on the level of newbies. 

15 minutes ago, thornzero said:

It doesn't say it in the blog - but Mountbatton says in the video that he thinks they could be in the premium shop

In other words, SLM is making ship up from thin air? 

Just now, ArIskandir said:

And somehow this was missed

No, it wasn't. Not entirely. One answer up-thread is already complaining about it! But the rest of them are climbing all over themselves to parrot Mountbatten. 

I'm not going to dignify his output with a click. I've seen enough of it already. And I've watched him play on-stream. Not impressed.

[thornzero]

2 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

In other words, SLM is making ship up from thin air? 

Seems like it. I checked the premium shop for blue and red eco boosters and found only grey and green ones. I'm f2p so I don't usually check there for anything.

Point taken on slm.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

11 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

Doesn't look like pay-to-win to me.  What it looks like is a dumbing down of the game to attract players who can't handle the degree of gameplay WOWS requires.  Getting rid of Detonations and not only the numbers of flags but the restrictions on which you can use is obvious pandering to a certain crowd in the community that can't deal with complex battle situations and just wants a beer and pretzel game.

 

Lesta must be desperate to get players to play their game if the previous changes they made to appeal to their playerbase have not succeeded in producing the numbers they want.

 

 

It's still pay2win, the exact extent will depend on the grind requirements and the event costs...but make no mistake, the easiest way to obtain these signals will be to buy containers or event items.

'No direct sales' is irrelevant to the concept of pay2win.

Don't get deceived by the marketing copy.

8 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

No direct sale. That's actually a nerf to P2W.  

And somehow this was missed in the noise...

 

LOL

'No direct sale' is an irrelevant distraction.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 minute ago, thornzero said:

Seems like it. I checked the premium shop for blue and red eco boosters and found only grey and green ones. I'm f2p so I don't usually check there for anything.

Point taken on slm.

Can you buy containers that drop blue boosters?

Go check, please.

[thornzero]

8 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Can you buy containers that drop blue boosters?

Go check, please.

Yes. 

Under Azur Lane, premium containers contain 14 of one Blue Booster.

Under D-day, premium containers contain 14 of one Blue Booster.

So there's that.

[SolitudeFreak]

1 minute ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Can you buy containers that drop blue boosters?

You almost always can, depending on the event.

We may not always exactly agree on what defines pay to win, but this is a pretty toxic change proposal for MK. If it operates like boosters currently do, you will almost certainly be able to pay for blue flag sets too.

It's debatable how good flags are for the game in general, since they directly influence gameplay, but their effects are at least relatively minor. To think that there could be red and blue versions of their effects is simply ridiculous.

21 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

What it looks like is a dumbing down of the game to attract players who can't handle the degree of gameplay WOWS requires.

To me it sounds like they're really reaching for revenue. Running fully flagged doesn't have me wishing I could mount one more. Generally a lot of flags are really only useful for certain classes, and this is apparent with only a minor understanding of how the flag system works. It feels like more of a resource sink than a dumbing down.

I've always maintained that the split was bad for this game, reasons for it aside.

[Kruzenstern]

53 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Most of the bonuses of these signals are equal in value or similar in principle to the bonuses of converted signals. At the same time, the value of some of the standard signal bonuses will be less than in the old system in order to reduce the excessive impact on the ship’s efficiency.

Uhhh... Looking at the signals that I actually consider useful and their new standard stats:

Flooding and fire extinguishing time nerfed from 20% to 10%

Chance to cause flooding gets nerfed from 19% to 10%

Ship speed nerfed from 8% to 5%

Fire chance get halved for small calibers, stays same for large ones

Hydro and Smoke time bonus halved

HP bonus on repair is just removed with no replacement? Seriously? One of the best signals imho just gone...

Same for the ramming flag (I actually used that in Coop!)

 

Where is this not a downright nerf and a moneygrab? To get the same efficiency as before, you need blue ones for the most part, for which you will have to buy containers probably (just like boosters). And I bet the contents of these containers will compete with boosters too, making this even worse.

If they would at least replace our exisiting signals with better level than standard, but of course not.

 

[Jakob Knight]

24 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

It's still pay2win, the exact extent will depend on the grind requirements and the event costs...but make no mistake, the easiest way to obtain these signals will be to buy containers or event items.

'No direct sales' is irrelevant to the concept of pay2win.

Don't get deceived by the marketing copy.

LOL

 

 

Actually, no.  Having a direct sale path to obtaining an item is integral to something being pay-to-win, since a direct translation of money to expected advantage must exist.  All this looks to be is a dumbing down of existing systems which will do no more or less for sales and combat advantages than is the case now.

 

What it does directly do is simplify the game along lines that reduce challenge and promote ease of play for those who do not like complexity in their gaming.  I don't think that's the right path to take in any game that is based on out-thinking your opponents.

 

 

Edited June 18 by Jakob Knight

[Ensign Cthulhu]

10 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said:

If it operates like boosters currently do, you will almost certainly be able to pay for blue flag sets too.

 

9 minutes ago, Kruzenstern said:

Where is this not a downright nerf and a moneygrab?

What part of no direct sale did you not understand? I repeat the text below for your benefit.

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

The methods for receiving signals will depend on their level:

• It will be possible to receive elite signals very rarely during events, and also with a small chance from the “More Signals” container and the Super Container. They will not be freely available for direct sale. At the same time, players will have the opportunity to receive them as a reward for achievements in battles.
• Rare signals will be somewhat easier to receive. They will appear more often as part of various event rewards. At the same time, the number of signals available in this way will also be limited. Like elite signals, they have a small chance to drop from the “More Signals” container and the Super container. In addition, players will have the opportunity to receive them as a reward for achievements in battles.  They will not be freely available for direct sale.

 

[SolitudeFreak]

1 minute ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

What part of no direct sale did you not understand?

I understood it. But you can still buy blue boosters, albeit randomized. There is a precedent for them to be purchased indirectly and still adhere to the wording of the devblog.

[Kruzenstern]

11 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

They will not be freely available for direct sale. At the same time, players will have the opportunity to receive them as a reward for achievements in battles.

I am fairly certain they will go into containers just like blue boosters currently are. Probably going into the same category, so you get either boosters or signals, nerfing booster acquisition also. No 'direct' sale after all. I mean, they could have said "No sale" without the direct but they didn't...

Edited June 18 by Kruzenstern

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

7 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

Actually, no.  Having a direct sale path to obtaining an item is integral to something being pay-to-win, since a direct translation of money to expected advantage must exist. 

Yes and no.

In this case, the direct sale path is to merely buy containers that drop the boosters.

The direct translation of money to expected advantage exists. WG just adds a gambling component to it to increase profits and allow them to intentionally confuse folks with what is happening.

This is common in the free2play/pay2win gaming space.

10 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

What it does directly do is simplify the game along lines that reduce challenge and promote ease of play for those who do not like complexity in their gaming.  I don't think that's the right path to take in any game that is based on out-thinking your opponents.

Indeed.

Though this game hasn't been based on out thinking opponents for a while now.

Mores the pity...