Battleship line recommendation

[Ferdinand_Max]

So I have been thinking, but I like two rather opposed styles of playing battleships:

1) medium-range "edgelord" (engaging from edge of concealment - be it stealthy sneak-and-peek or just tapdancing through return fire as it were)

2) close-in brawl (no need to explain that one)

While ze Germans are an obvious pick for the latter, I am not convinced they are a good choice for general gameplay, or for a player returning to the game after a long time as I am (subs and stuff). So I got myself Duke of York for coal... I played a few games in her to see how she handles and here are my observations:

• I expected better stealth
• I really, really like her HE, and even AP is excellent if you know when to use it
• long gun reload is a letdown
• her belt armor is awesome, but you have to be careful not to show too much or too little broadside
  • nose and stern can be overmatched by any battleship and even some cruiser AP

So I guess an "ideal" battleship would be:

• "emphasis"
  • good belt armor
  • good rudder shift and general agility
  • accurate main battery
• "nice to have"
  • good concealment
  • good HE (for destroyers and uptiering)
  • good AP
  • good secondaries

If memory serves me well, SMS Viribus Unitis and HMS Vanguard would fit the bill nearly perfectly - those two have everything on the list except for the good secondaries (and maybe good rudder shift for VU? I don't remember) - but what about tech tree line ships?

[Schnitchelkid01_]

About 5 minutes ago I just finished the St. Vincent line and I have to say, it was VERY enjoyable to play from the Tiger up to the Duncan. I have played one Coop battle with the St. Vincent so far and it just seems like a better Duncan. They don't have good secondaries and they can be quite squishy but man oh man are they alot of fun to play. If you are interested the Tiger is a perfect ship to play and if you like the playstyle, the rest are basically that but better. The British Battcruisers hit hard and they have the speed and rudder shift to put you in charge of any brawl and engagement (also the torps help too).

[OT2_2]

56 minutes ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

o I guess an "ideal" battleship would be:

• "emphasis"
  • good belt armor
  • good rudder shift and general agility
  • accurate main battery
• "nice to have"
  • good concealment
  • good HE (for destroyers and uptiering)
  • good AP
  • good secondaries

Actually you are speaking about "Alabama", which should fill the bill perfectly as a premium. For tech - tree I would follow the advice of @Schnitchelkid01_, which is on the money. 

[BOBTHEBALL]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

So I have been thinking, but I like two rather opposed styles of playing battleships:

1) medium-range "edgelord" (engaging from edge of concealment - be it stealthy sneak-and-peek or just tapdancing through return fire as it were)

To be honest, I can say most BB should actually be playing like this. Just because you have 26km range doesn't mean you use it  all. Genuinely to fullfill this just grind any BB line that seems interesting. I can suggest, Vincent, Vermont, Yamato and I think to throw something I like personally in there, Colombo.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

Im no expert on BBs but for me the choice would be St.Vincent for the medium range fights, since it has powerful guns, good concealment, speed boost, almost no superstructure, Nuke torps and Zombie heal. A great BB to surprise broadsiding cruisers at mid range and then get away without dying.

For brawls its mostly Schleiffen, just got Karl Johan and he has stealth secondary's. Other than that Napoli (Yes, cruiser I know, but almost fit the description of a BB) has amazing and fun SAP secondarys, smoke train and torps.

[MBT808]

Generally, when it comes to battleships there are a few things you want:

• 50mm deck plate or better(38mm or less is insufficient).
• A turtle back armor scheme is generally ideal as All or Nothing doesn't actually work it seems.
• Rudder shift on BBs is fairly limited from what I can recall in the moment. Thunderer is one, but she's no longer available.
• Accurate BB guns are fairly limited to premiums/special ships, we're talking generally ships like Thunderer, Georgia, Mecklenburg, Slava, Wisconsin, etc. There are more, but in general the techline ships with Battlecruiser dispersion are saddled with bad sigmas that lead to them being rather inconsistent. Avoid ships with French/italian dispersion, everything else has either Russian or American dispersion.

Looking at your requirements, your basically asking for a BB that more or less doesn't exist in that combination. The closest you might get is Mecklenburg(People argue her shells, but for their caliber their good generally). However, one ship isn't a line.

In terms of the emphasis, there is no line like that. Either you have good armor and average speed(german BBs), or bad armor and decent maneuverability(british BB/BC). You can have one or the other, not both. Accurate main battery is, as I said, that's largely something on non-techline BBs have. Only the German and British BCs get battlecruiser dispersion among the tech tree ships, but again their saddled with bad sigma that leads to frustrating RNG(unlike the previously mentioned premium/special ships).

You're going to have to compromise somewhere, cause otherwise I can't recommend any line. Only premiums/specials match your criteria.

Edited June 18 by MBT808

[MBT808]

27 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Im no expert on BBs but for me the choice would be St.Vincent for the medium range fights, since it has powerful guns, good concealment, speed boost, almost no superstructure, Nuke torps and Zombie heal. A great BB to surprise broadsiding cruisers at mid range and then get away without dying.

The speed boost and torps aren't really the selling point though of the line really. The speed boost sucks, you can ignore it largely. They're back line snipers 100%, they can't tank what so ever even with the Zombie heal. Mid range is pretty risky generally, especially with how bad teams are and the sheer lack of support(which is really needed for that type of play).

I'd say the guns are definitely decent, but everything else about the british BCs isn't really great IMO. St. Vincent is the only real stand out in the whole group that is considered a meta contender.

[mashed68]

German tier 7,9 and 10 BC's are the shiz nittle bam snip snap snap. 

Never have enjoyed the British BC's. 

German BB's are always decent. 

British BB line is better now with the monarch buff. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

I usually sacrifice the good main battery accuracy from the list if I want to have full enjoyment.

I find I am enjoying the Italian BBs in ranked, which features more 'in close' fighting than normal randoms.

Trouble is your main battery can just be traitorous to your cause at times. 😉

Decent speed, nice rudder shift, decent armor.

[Ferdinand_Max]

13 hours ago, Schnitchelkid01_ said:

About 5 minutes ago I just finished the St. Vincent line and I have to say, it was VERY enjoyable to play from the Tiger up to the Duncan. I have played one Coop battle with the St. Vincent so far and it just seems like a better Duncan. They don't have good secondaries and they can be quite squishy but man oh man are they alot of fun to play. If you are interested the Tiger is a perfect ship to play and if you like the playstyle, the rest are basically that but better. The British Battcruisers hit hard and they have the speed and rudder shift to put you in charge of any brawl and engagement (also the torps help too).

Thanks!

8 hours ago, MBT808 said:

Generally, when it comes to battleships there are a few things you want:

• 50mm deck plate or better(38mm or less is insufficient).
• A turtle back armor scheme is generally ideal as All or Nothing doesn't actually work it seems.
• Rudder shift on BBs is fairly limited from what I can recall in the moment. Thunderer is one, but she's no longer available.
• Accurate BB guns are fairly limited to premiums/special ships, we're talking generally ships like Thunderer, Georgia, Mecklenburg, Slava, Wisconsin, etc. There are more, but in general the techline ships with Battlecruiser dispersion are saddled with bad sigmas that lead to them being rather inconsistent. Avoid ships with French/italian dispersion, everything else has either Russian or American dispersion.

Looking at your requirements, your basically asking for a BB that more or less doesn't exist in that combination. The closest you might get is Mecklenburg(People argue her shells, but for their caliber their good generally). However, one ship isn't a line.

In terms of the emphasis, there is no line like that. Either you have good armor and average speed(german BBs), or bad armor and decent maneuverability(british BB/BC). You can have one or the other, not both. Accurate main battery is, as I said, that's largely something on non-techline BBs have. Only the German and British BCs get battlecruiser dispersion among the tech tree ships, but again their saddled with bad sigma that leads to frustrating RNG(unlike the previously mentioned premium/special ships).

You're going to have to compromise somewhere, cause otherwise I can't recommend any line. Only premiums/specials match your criteria.

Well, it doesn't have to fulfill all the criteria. Also, from what I recall, AoN armor actually does work... so long as you know how to angle. I have rather fond memories of bouncing battleship-grade AP while brawling in Vanguard on my old account.

That being said, I would focus on agility and concealment - as I said, I am looking at a mid-range battleship, since I hate long range sniping while brawling honestly looks kinda dead with all the subs, hybrids and shit... and even if it isn't, I'd rather not rush into say German line.

So basically, an agile and survivable enough battleship line with emphasis on utilizing edge-of-concealment range band. Also, do note that by agility I mean acceleration and rudder shift... top speed is, as far as I'm concerned, pretty much irrelevant.

[aleksi111]

Is your focus on the T10's, whole line or certain tier bracket? [I.E: T7/T8]

 

Vittori Veneto with the Ninja vanish smoke?

• 30kts speed
• 70mm upper belt & 45mm weather deck
• 130mm belt extension
• Good firing angles
• Decent detection
• Smoke
• 37% TDS damage migitation
• Good-ish rudder

But, the bad:

• 34s gun reload
• BB SAP => no Fire setting option
• Very erratic shell grouping

Edited June 18 by aleksi111

[MnemonScarlet]

42 minutes ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

Thanks!

Well, it doesn't have to fulfill all the criteria. Also, from what I recall, AoN armor actually does work... so long as you know how to angle. I have rather fond memories of bouncing battleship-grade AP while brawling in Vanguard on my old account.

That being said, I would focus on agility and concealment - as I said, I am looking at a mid-range battleship, since I hate long range sniping while brawling honestly looks kinda dead with all the subs, hybrids and shit... and even if it isn't, I'd rather not rush into say German line.

So basically, an agile and survivable enough battleship line with emphasis on utilizing edge-of-concealment range band. Also, do note that by agility I mean acceleration and rudder shift... top speed is, as far as I'm concerned, pretty much irrelevant.

All or Nothing is pretty fine, yes - just angle well as you say. IMO turtleback mostly promotes bad gameplay habits, which if you haven't played a lot of battleship you don't want to foster.

The RN BCs are probably closest to what you're saying, although IIRC the Italians can also sorta do that. Good acceleration is mostly not something you'll find on the tech tree BBs aside from the RN BCs, it tends to be a premium BB trait.

And long range sniping is really boring, but you do want your BB to be at least capable of engaging in it, since some matches you just have to do it as filler gameplay until the time comes where you can engage in more interesting plays. Brawling is mostly super derpy and the German BCs do it best. Most all BBs can do midrange just fine, it's most of my IJN BB gameplay for instance.

[Ferdinand_Max]

16 minutes ago, aleksi111 said:

Is your focus on the T10's, whole line or certain tier bracket? [I.E: T7/T8]

My focus (for now at least) would actually be T6 - T8. I'd rather not rush Tier 10... especially as it seems really, really boring.

[Unlooky]

14 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

So I have been thinking, but I like two rather opposed styles of playing battleships:

1) medium-range "edgelord" (engaging from edge of concealment - be it stealthy sneak-and-peek or just tapdancing through return fire as it were)

2) close-in brawl (no need to explain that one)

While ze Germans are an obvious pick for the latter, I am not convinced they are a good choice for general gameplay, or for a player returning to the game after a long time as I am (subs and stuff). So I got myself Duke of York for coal... I played a few games in her to see how she handles and here are my observations:

• I expected better stealth
• I really, really like her HE, and even AP is excellent if you know when to use it
• long gun reload is a letdown
• her belt armor is awesome, but you have to be careful not to show too much or too little broadside
  • nose and stern can be overmatched by any battleship and even some cruiser AP

So I guess an "ideal" battleship would be:

• "emphasis"
  • good belt armor
  • good rudder shift and general agility
  • accurate main battery
• "nice to have"
  • good concealment
  • good HE (for destroyers and uptiering)
  • good AP
  • good secondaries

If memory serves me well, SMS Viribus Unitis and HMS Vanguard would fit the bill nearly perfectly - those two have everything on the list except for the good secondaries (and maybe good rudder shift for VU? I don't remember) - but what about tech tree line ships?

Close in brawling is pretty much reserved for German and Russian battleships. 

Having good handling (speed and rudder shift) severely limits this list, imo. There has to be a compromise in some area of the three aspects you listed.

If you're willing to sacrifice Belt Armor:

Definitely the Vincent line. This matches pretty much every other criteria you have listed besides secondaries. Although far from a dedicated brawler, she can handle herself pretty well with the nuclear torpedoes on a fast reload. 

If you're willing to sacrifice general agility:

Vermont and Montana are both excellent choices especially for the playstyle you have listed. They thrive in mid range engagements. Vermont sacrifices top speed but actually has quite good handling overall. She has incredible concealment for her firepower and good HE (although you don't really need it, your AP alpha is insane.) 

Montana's agility isn't great, but I'd hesitate to call it bad. Her rudder shift is garbage but beyond that she's perfectly adequate. 

Kremlin and Conqueror could both fit into this category as well thanks to their incredible concealment and firepower. Kremlin is more of a brick. Conqueror is average but exceptional with her Unique Upgrade. Both play differently, so I recommend looking into both. Both ships are fairly easy to citadel however. Kremlin doesn't have any spaced armor BS to eat shells, and Conq just eats citadels. 

If you're willing to sacrifice accuracy:

Italian BBs. They fit the other two categories rather well. Good concealment and a smoke for disengaging/stealthy plays. Battleship SAP is mediocre against DDs, but absolutely hilarious against subs (they do full damage with each shell, even on splash damage hits.) Serviceable AP, poor secondaries. 

 

 

[ArIskandir]

15 hours ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

So I guess an "ideal" battleship would be:

• "emphasis"
  • good belt armor
  • good rudder shift and general agility
  • accurate main battery
• "nice to have"
  • good concealment
  • good HE (for destroyers and uptiering)
  • good AP
  • good secondaries

Royal Navy (either line) fit most of the requirements: Vincent line scores lower on armor, Conqueror line scores lower on accuracy.

Russian line has mediocre agility but great armor and guns for mid range engagements. Concealment is not great.

French line has weird accuracy but great agility (once you enter the 'fast battleships' tiers)

Italians have horrible accuracy but great armor and agility

Germans and IJN are spotted from the moon and usually rather clumsy

USN are somewhat balanced, Vermont line has great agility but they are slooooow. Iowa is quite fast but doesn't like to turn so its a bit wierd to rate, Montana is one of the clumsiest ships I've played and also is spotted from the moon, really dislike that hull. 

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

Montana's agility isn't great, but I'd hesitate to call it bad. Her rudder shift is garbage but beyond that she's perfectly adequate. 

Eh?  🤔... rudder shift is garbage, agility isn't great but you wouldn't call it bad?... whaddaya mean bro? that thing is as clumsier as they come, agility is one inch from garbage. 

[Unlooky]

23 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Eh?  🤔... rudder shift is garbage, agility isn't great but you wouldn't call it bad?... whaddaya mean bro? that thing is as clumsier as they come, agility is one inch from garbage. 

Beyond the rudder shift she's dead average mobility wise. Average speed, turning circle, and normal acceleration characteristics. Either way I don't feel that her agility is particularly bad besides the rudder shift.  

[Itwastuesday]

Technically Schlieffen line fullfills your criteria

[ArIskandir]

4 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Beyond the rudder shift she's dead average mobility wise. Average speed, turning circle, and normal acceleration characteristics. Either way I don't feel that her agility is particularly bad besides the rudder shift.  

At that tier, speed as a factor for agility is almost irrelevant as everyone but Vermont has similar speed (unless very specific BBs that can engine boost), what's left is a composition of turning circle and rudder shift; turning circles are all in the average of horrible (1km) with something like +/- 10% which is not a big deal when playing. So the biggest differential comes from rudder shift... having bad rudder shift means having bad overall agility, rudder time carries the largest impact on how nimble your ship feels when playing. A ship with good rudder can have values 30-40%  lower than Montana, that's very significant.

[Ferdinand_Max]

37 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Royal Navy (either line) fit most of the requirements: Vincent line scores lower on armor, Conqueror line scores lower on accuracy.

Russian line has mediocre agility but great armor and guns for mid range engagements. Concealment is not great.

French line has weird accuracy but great agility (once you enter the 'fast battleships' tiers)

Italians have horrible accuracy but great armor and agility

Germans and IJN are spotted from the moon and usually rather clumsy

USN are somewhat balanced, Vermont line has great agility but they are slooooow. Iowa is quite fast but doesn't like to turn so its a bit wierd to rate, Montana is one of the clumsiest ships I've played and also is spotted from the moon, really dislike that hull. 

2 hours ago, Unlooky said:

Close in brawling is pretty much reserved for German and Russian battleships. 

Having good handling (speed and rudder shift) severely limits this list, imo. There has to be a compromise in some area of the three aspects you listed.

If you're willing to sacrifice Belt Armor:

Definitely the Vincent line. This matches pretty much every other criteria you have listed besides secondaries. Although far from a dedicated brawler, she can handle herself pretty well with the nuclear torpedoes on a fast reload. 

If you're willing to sacrifice general agility:

Vermont and Montana are both excellent choices especially for the playstyle you have listed. They thrive in mid range engagements. Vermont sacrifices top speed but actually has quite good handling overall. She has incredible concealment for her firepower and good HE (although you don't really need it, your AP alpha is insane.) 

Montana's agility isn't great, but I'd hesitate to call it bad. Her rudder shift is garbage but beyond that she's perfectly adequate. 

Kremlin and Conqueror could both fit into this category as well thanks to their incredible concealment and firepower. Kremlin is more of a brick. Conqueror is average but exceptional with her Unique Upgrade. Both play differently, so I recommend looking into both. Both ships are fairly easy to citadel however. Kremlin doesn't have any spaced armor BS to eat shells, and Conq just eats citadels. 

If you're willing to sacrifice accuracy:

Italian BBs. They fit the other two categories rather well. Good concealment and a smoke for disengaging/stealthy plays. Battleship SAP is mediocre against DDs, but absolutely hilarious against subs (they do full damage with each shell, even on splash damage hits.) Serviceable AP, poor secondaries. 

So overall it seems like RN BB + RN BC + MN BB + KM BC lines would be a good choice? IIRC, US battleships have kinda garbage agility, and even if not, I'm really not sure I'm ready to suffer through the Standards to get to the US fast line...

[ArIskandir]

5 minutes ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

So overall it seems like RN BB + RN BC + MN BB + KM BC lines would be a good choice? IIRC, US battleships have kinda garbage agility, and even if not, I'm really not sure I'm ready to suffer through the Standards to get to the US fast line...

Imo, any of the lines you mentioned is a lot of fun to play. Just bear in mind they all are on the 'light' side, you operate more like BCs than a proper ship-of-the-line.