Video worth watching.

[USMC2145]

Like Zoup or not, this video speaks the truth. A lot of what WG does is for their benefit, not yours. I do not like what WG is doing to the game anymore than many others, but we truly have no say in the matter. This video was done a bit over a year ago, and nothing has changed, which proves its point. 

 

[3LUE]

Sadly, it is not going to change. WG has pandered to the larger part of the player base, and the larger part of the player base is the picture I have posted. They are not going away, and they are, I would say, 80% or more of the high-tier players. Most players do not care about their stats or being good at the game. This is why good players are leaving or just not playing randoms. We can complain all we want, but these types of players are here to stay, and nothing we say or do will make them change. We either deal with it or leave. It is that simple. 

 

[OT2_2]

1 hour ago, 3LUE said:

Sadly, it is not going to change. WG has pandered to the larger part of the player base, and the larger part of the player base is the picture I have posted. They are not going away, and they are, I would say, 80% or more of the high-tier players. Most players do not care about their stats or being good at the game. This is why good players are leaving or just not playing randoms. We can complain all we want, but these types of players are here to stay, and nothing we say or do will make them change. We either deal with it or leave. It is that simple. 

 

Why should a"bad" player not be playing high tiers?! I would assume that many of those "bad" players feel screwed up in lower tiers, because they are getting uptiered all the time and serve (solely) both as canon fodder for the "better people" in T 10 / 11 and as time reducing medium so that "THE CHOSEN ONES" don't have to wait entering a new game subito ... Queue time. Quality will not increase by forcing "bad" players into high tier games when they aren't ready and completely prepared to play T 7 and / or 8. Talking about learning the mechanics and getting experience. That's the major dilemma of the game. BTW and with all respect, are you and others kind of socially damaged that you dare to talk in such a condescending and contemptuous way about a major and important part of the player base?

Edited June 13 by OT2_2

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

12 minutes ago, OT2_2 said:

 are you and others kind of autistic that you dare to talk in such a condescending and contemptuous way about a major and important part of the player base?

Could you please not use autism as a slur? There are plenty of us autistic players who see you write that and take offense because using our medical condition as a slur or insult is not acceptable. I am 100% certain it is also against the rules on this forum.

[OT2_2]

29 minutes ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

Could you please not use autism as a slur? There are plenty of us autistic players who see you write that and take offense because using our medical condition as a slur or insult is not acceptable. I am 100% certain it is also against the rules on this forum.

It isn't and wasn't my intention to insult anybody here, but it is most likely also against the rules and common decency to belittle a big part of the player base, because some people think they are better and more worth than others. 

P.S. I changed the part you criticized. 

Edited June 13 by OT2_2

[3LUE]

35 minutes ago, OT2_2 said:

 because some people think they are better and more worth than others. 

I never said we had more worth than others. Are we better at the game? Yes, we are. But that, for a large part, is their own fault. A good chunk of them just refuse to learn how to be better at the game. They are unwilling to spend any time watching videos or reading any playing advice. Are there players who do not do well for other reasons? Yes. My talking about bad players is not directed at them, but at the players who refuse to get better even though they could with a little effort. 

The player I posted pretty much made a row of bad moves in a game and then proceeded to blame WG for his bad play. He got deleted from sailing broadside after he was hit in the cit two times and continued even after a player suggested he turn away. This is the kind of player I am talking about. 

Edited June 13 by 3LUE

[Admiral_Karasu]

What exactly is the impact of 'bad' players on high tier battles (or any other random battles for that matter)? I know the effect is detrimental when you have some on your team, but on average the same thing should be happening on the red team as well to balance it out. What I can fathom is that it can make battles shorter, but that's more to do with WG wanting to have the battles short, IMO.

The bad players would probably find ranked battles too frustrating, so the only game mode I can see that his can really be a relevant issue is in Operations. Lately, I've seen more operations fail than what was the case just a while back.

[OT2_2]

24 minutes ago, 3LUE said:

But that, for a large part, is their own fault. A good chunk of them just refuse to learn how to be better at the game.

I doubt that, because many of the newer players feel cheated by WG the same way as the older do. They must learn an overwhelming mass of new mechanics, something which wasn't the case 5 years ago, they are getting uptiered and abused almost 100% of the time. They are getting flamed by "team mates" at tiers where they don't belong ... and so on, and so on. How should they find any joy in this game? These younger, "bad" players have the same rights like anyone else, but no consideration is given to them whatsoever. 

[BlueMax1916]

9 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

What exactly is the impact of 'bad' players on high tier battles (or any other random battles for that matter)? I know the effect is detrimental when you have some on your team, but on average the same thing should be happening on the red team as well to balance it out. What I can fathom is that it can make battles shorter, but that's more to do with WG wanting to have the battles short, IMO.

The bad players would probably find ranked battles too frustrating, so the only game mode I can see that his can really be a relevant issue is in Operations. Lately, I've seen more operations fail than what was the case just a while back.

An unpleasant game experience for players, who want to have a good and challenging battle, when it's a stomp in either direction?

An even more unpleasant game experience when it's ranked (half the team wiped out until the 5 minute mark)?

[Zysyss]

32 minutes ago, OT2_2 said:

I doubt that, because many of the newer players feel cheated by WG the same way as the older do. They must learn an overwhelming mass of new mechanics, something which wasn't the case 5 years ago, they are getting uptiered and abused almost 100% of the time. They are getting flamed by "team mates" at tiers where they don't belong ... and so on, and so on. How should they find any joy in this game? These younger, "bad" players have the same rights like anyone else, but no consideration is given to them whatsoever. 

And have you taken the time to realize that these players who refuse to try and learn are ruining the fun for those of us who do? Maybe they should spend more time at tiers 5–6 and learn the mechanics and other things better instead of rushing to tier 10 as fast as possible. Many of us put time and effort into learning this game, and we don't like blowouts on either team. We want to fight equil players. We understand that not everyone is going to be an expert at the game, but at least we would like the players to have some kind of understanding of how to play it without being a total burden to whatever team they are on. 

Blowouts are getting worse and worse, and they are driving many good players away, which makes it even worse. I myself have been thinking about leaving over how bad the gameplay has become in high tier. But that is just what the video touches on that the OP posted. 

Edited June 13 by Zysyss

[OT2_2]

8 minutes ago, Zysyss said:

And have you taken the time to realize that these players who refuse to try and learn are ruining the fun for those of us who do? Maybe they should spend more time at tiers 5–6 and learn the mechanics and other things better instead of rushing to tier 10 as fast as possible. Many of us put time and effort into learning this game, and we don't like blowouts on either team. We want to fight equil players. We understand that not everyone is going to be an expert at the game, but at least we would like the players to have some kind of understanding of how to play it without being a total burden to whatever team they are on. 

To make it clear, I share your concerns about the quality of the game, but it looks like that you and others are not realizing that there is given NO time to new players. When they are trying to learn, some really do, they have to deal with unicum divisions at T 5 in OP - ships and / or are uptiered to T 7, respectively T 8 when playing T 6. They get literally spoken slaughtered. So they are purchasing high Tier ships to defend themselves. This is a vicious circle and provoked by WG and no one else. 

[Zysyss]

21 minutes ago, Zysyss said:

But that is just what the video touches on that the OP posted. 

 

5 minutes ago, OT2_2 said:

This is a vicious circle and provoked by WG and no one else. 

And did I not add that to my post? I blame WG for this mess more than I blame the players, but WG is unwilling to change. So the change is left up to the players. Many of us went through having to deal with being up-tiered and dealing with Unicum players. How did we do it? We learned how to be better. We learned by watching videos and reading advice from other players. When I get a new ship, the first thing I do is go to YouTube. I look for good players who play that ship to see how they spec their captains, what equipment they put on the ship, and how they play it. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

44 minutes ago, BlueMax1916 said:

An unpleasant game experience for players, who want to have a good and challenging battle, when it's a stomp in either direction?

An even more unpleasant game experience when it's ranked (half the team wiped out until the 5 minute mark)?

I sense that you mean that winning isn't everything? From my point of view, the issue aren't the 'bad' players per se, but the way WG has rigged the game play. Specifically, it seems that WG wants the game play be like WoT with ships as I've seen WoWS being described more than once.

Balancing and mechanics are often blamed for these counter-intuitive game play issues, I also bring these up every now and then as a 'bad' player. Sadly, however, I don't see WG attempting to address the issue in game development, but I also doubt if they have the ability to do so.

I'm not nearly good enough at this game to point out where the fault, specifically lies, but it's not necessarily the bad players and the only ways to address the issue of bad players is either by introducing a stats based MM or by adjusting the game economy so that high tier game play will become prohibitively expensive for bad players and that's a direction I don't want to go. A stats based MM would be preferable to me, but I know many would object to it.

The core game, however, works. The issues are mostly caused by intra-class balancing issues and the compounded effect of game mechanics and map issues. The reason I know this are the odd, temporary game modes where the players were given a level playing field by WG. One example was the Savage Battles, extremely cramped map with high speed nail biting action with DD's only. The second was it's total opposite, the BB only Brawl mode when played on the Ocean map. On these two instances I got to engage in dynamic and challenging PvP game play.

[BlueMax1916]

34 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

I sense that you mean that winning isn't everything? ...

 

Of course winning is the cream topping on the cake. But you can't always win. And even if it's a loss, if you fought hard and your team mates did too it is still satisfying. If you need to kite away from five enemy ships as last survivor on your flank because your team is steamrolled or you steamroll the other team it is not satisfying. A victory after you stomped the other team provides a lousy feeling.

Winning let's you advance in the game because of better earnings (XP, credits, rewards). After all that's the goal, isn't it?

Edited June 13 by BlueMax1916

[Wolfswetpaws]

WG/WOWs' desire is to sell their product(s) and make a profit.
By itself, that's a normal business motivation.

Have ship, can press "BATTLE".
The ship of a given tier is a "ticket" to enter the matchmaking brackets and game modes available to that ship, whatever the ship may be.

Player behavior varies.  
By itself, that is a normal phenomena in gaming.

Want a "fantasy team"?  Then I suggest playing one of those "sports team fantasy" games which allow one to create a "team" by mixing & matching pixel versions of real-life players of a given sport.
Example = https://fantasy.espn.com/football/welcome

Things on the pixel seas of WOWs are both grimmer and more hilariously entertaining, depending upon a player's attitude.
Personally, I strive to maintain a positive attitude and take the shennanigans in stride.

[USMC2145]

18 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

WG/WOWs' desire is to sell their product(s) and make a profit.
By itself, that's a normal business motivation.

Have ship, can press "BATTLE".
The ship of a given tier is a "ticket" to enter the matchmaking brackets and game modes available to that ship, whatever the ship may be.

Player behavior varies.  
By itself, that is a normal phenomena in gaming.

Want a "fantasy team"?  Then I suggest playing one of those "sports team fantasy" games which allow one to create a "team" by mixing & matching pixel versions of real-life players of a given sport.
Example = https://fantasy.espn.com/football/welcome

Things on the pixel seas of WOWs are both grimmer and more hilariously entertaining, depending upon a player's attitude.
Personally, I strive to maintain a positive attitude and take the shennanigans in stride.

I can't say you are wrong, but even some of the WoWs streamers are streaming WoWs less and less and are streaming other games. I have even seen a few say do not play WoWs if you are not already playing the game while they stream other games. The game is getting a bad rep, and that is not good for the future of the game. When a company thinks more about profit than game quality, that is a bad direction. I have seen games die over that. I am not saying WoWs are going to die, but it cannot be good for the health of the game. We see tons of new money making things come into the game, but what about new maps? We might see a new map once a year if we are lucky. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, USMC2145 said:

I can't say you are wrong, but even some of the WoWs streamers are streaming WoWs less and less and are streaming other games. I have even seen a few say do not play WoWs if you are not already playing the game while they stream other games. The game is getting a bad rep, and that is not good for the future of the game. When a company thinks more about profit than game quality, that is a bad direction. I have seen games die over that. I am not saying WoWs are going to die, but it cannot be good for the health of the game. We see tons of new money making things come into the game, but what about new maps? We might see a new map once a year if we are lucky. 

I imagine the reasons that streamers are diversifying their content is similar to why stock-holders diversify their portfolios.
1.  So that a loss in one sector won't wipe-out all their other holdings and combined net-worth.
2.  Variety is the spice of life.

WOWs may not be perfect, but many other games are not perfect.
Complaining about "bugs" seems to be a "feature" among gaming populations, too.  🙂 

[tocqueville8]

4 hours ago, Zysyss said:

And have you taken the time to realize that these players who refuse to try and learn are ruining the fun for those of us who do?

Blowouts are getting worse and worse, and they are driving many good players away, which makes it even worse.

What ruins my fun is grossly uneven teams. The main culprit for that, if anyone, are not "players who refuse to try and learn" the game, since they're likely to be on both teams, given how common they are.

Instead, it's divisions. Divisions are usually made of players of the same skill level, which skews the MM distribution to the extreme cases that result in steamroll games. 3 unicums on one side, 3 potatoes on the other, since the MM balances, kinda, only the number of divisions, not the skill of the players. If it were only for bad players, one team would get 3, the other 4 or whatever, and it would be about equal. Bad players aren't the cause for steamrolls.

5 hours ago, Zysyss said:

We want to fight equil players.

I'm far from the best player around, but I'm good enough that the MM couldn't easily find 23 about as good as me at the time I want in the tier(s) I want. Besides, it would be oppressing: how could I have had the games where I set my damage records, xp records, etc., or just great, fun games in general, if the opposition were always about as good as me? How many 'me-s' could I outplay?

TL; DR: I'm fine with bad players, as long as the teams are somewhat balanced.

[Andrewbassg]

7 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

The bad players would probably find ranked battles too frustrating

Oh no, sadly no. They just happily-merriliy spam the battle on button. The good players however, feel waay more acutely the frustration and will be fed up more easily.

And THAT'S the deleterious effect on both ranked AND high tier games....

[Helstrem]

8 hours ago, OT2_2 said:

I doubt that, because many of the newer players feel cheated by WG the same way as the older do. They must learn an overwhelming mass of new mechanics, something which wasn't the case 5 years ago, they are getting uptiered and abused almost 100% of the time. They are getting flamed by "team mates" at tiers where they don't belong ... and so on, and so on. How should they find any joy in this game? These younger, "bad" players have the same rights like anyone else, but no consideration is given to them whatsoever. 

Why do you claim they are being uptiered almost 100% of the time?  That seems a very emotionally charged, but factually incorrect, claim.  The MM works the same for everybody, good, bad, new, old.  I've been tracking my MM results for years now and none of the supposed WG maliciousness has ever shown in it.  Rather it has consistently shown that the MM does exactly what WG has claimed that it does.  I have yet to detect any perfidy in it.

[Admiral_Karasu]

@tocqueville8 Quite, not all divisions are created equal.

[Aethervox]

8 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

on average the same thing should be happening on the red team as well to balance it out.

The 'same thing' is not happening equally. Many know that 'balance' is a foreign concept to Wedgie 😒.

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 minute ago, Aethervox said:

The 'same thing' is not happening equally. Many know that 'balance' is a foreign concept to Wedgie 😒.

Yes.. interestingly the law of averages apparently is another fallacy. It could well be that it only works across the entire player base, but not on an individual level meaning that some players may get consistently screwed over by the MM while others keep gaming on more enjoyable terms.

[Aethervox]

2 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

WG's not the problem. 

This is your opinion only. My opinion is that WG is the problem (as much of the problem as the bad players are).