7 day ban for winning 37 games in a row

[Aethervox]

1 hour ago, YouSatInGum said:

However, it does highlight how divisions make "Randoms" anything but random

Divisioning isn't the only reason, imho, why 'Randoms' are anything but random. Being in a division is the only practical way players can influence what the WG MM does.

[Aethervox]

22 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Apparently section 12.1.o

Apparently, Wedgie can & does do anything they want to (it's even in their EULA). Surprise, surprise (NOT). 😒

Ofc, "Undermining the fair play principle or disrupting the normal gameplay." only applies to the players, never WG. ROFL

[Admiral_Karasu]

41 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

... It's quite literally posted by the OP lol. 

12.1 of EULA.

 

40 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Apparently section 12.1.o

Yeah, but that reads like a blanket rule to me. It can cover anything WG wants it to cover.

I don't get exactly how you could 'blind' anybody with smokescreens because if you see the enemy yourself the game will provide the exact same spotting information to your team mates.

Colluding with team mates so they sunk themselves... maybe, if they are dumb enough to say something like that in chat, otherwise, how you differentiate between that and just really bad game play. I regularly 'collude' in that sense with my team mates when I 'purposefully' make sure I am the first one on the team to get sunk, if you go by that route. I suppose there is such a thing as 'toying' with the enemy, possibly, if you let them heal up and start again... so potentially that could be it, but does that 'undermine fair play' or does it 'disrupt normal gameplay'?

I'm trying to think what I could come up with as an example of 12.1.0 myself, but basically only maybe blocking team mates purposefully, running into their torps so they don't score damage... I don't have many ideas, though.

[Rollingonit]

4 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

snip

Yes, it's a "blanket", "catch all" rule. Every online based service game has a line like that in their EULA. It covers everything from griefing, to botting, to afking, to cheating, teamkilling etc etc. It covers things that havent even been implemented or discovered yet in games.

 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

54 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Don't worry.  I've seen you play on your Twitch stream.  You're not *that* good of a player.  😉     🙂 
 

I never claimed to be anything other than barely "mid". 😋

[Admiral_Karasu]

8 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

Yes, it's a "blanket", "catch all" rule. Every online based service game has a line like that in their EULA. It covers everything from griefing, to botting, to afking, to cheating, teamkilling etc etc. It covers things that havent even been implemented or discovered yet in games.

 

Quite, but it would have to be something like a clear violation, for instance something like a previously unknown exploit. If it's just game play related, I think there's very little new going on there that hasn't been seen already.

The botting accusation so far to me seems like the most plausible one.

[Lord_Zath]

5 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Good question. 
I "second the motion" and "tag" @Lord_Zath to ask if he can shed light upon tournament shenannigans and the subsequent investigations & adjudications of player(s)?
 

As a caster, all I do is call what players are doing as they play. There's no way to know if a player is using an aim bot, account sharing, or anything else that's considered bannable. I have no idea what NOCAP did to bring about this post. Sorry!

[Admiral_Karasu]

4 minutes ago, Lord_Zath said:

As a caster, all I do is call what players are doing as they play. There's no way to know if a player is using an aim bot, account sharing, or anything else that's considered bannable. I have no idea what NOCAP did to bring about this post. Sorry!

Well, do you remember if you spotted any odd goings on?

[Pugilistic]

2 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

[excerpted]

The numbers overwhelming bear this out as players in good clans that often play divisioned almost always have several standard deviations of WR difference between their solo and division stats.

 

Yes. I look from time to time, and recall yesterday a player who was 53-54 solo and 67% 3-divisioned. Thats quite a jump, so his pals must be quite strong.

I had not though about it in the terms you stated, but this must be a couple SD's. A 3-division of strong players puts a heavy thumb on the MM scales. 

[Dutchy_2019]

Two things:

Considering the "ban for winning" I would say that is absolutely bogus that it was triggered by 'just winning'. Otherwise quite a few players of the top KOTS clans would most likely have seen bans, simply for winning too much. So I would agree with people that suggest that the players involved were either (a) doing something illegal, or (b) they were reported by someone and CS took action (wrongful or not).

 

The NOCAP: Seraphice's post tells everything you need to know; NOCAP knowingly fielded a player banned from tournament play. Considering precedent set by WG in the past (relating to an Asian or Chinese clan that got caught cheating), this was pretty much the guaranteed result.

And yes, I believe Seraphice / WG in saying NOCAP and the NOCAP players knew said player was banned from competitive play - considering how small and interconnected the top level WoWs competitive community is.

 

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

18 minutes ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

Two things:

Considering the "ban for winning" I would say that is absolutely bogus that it was triggered by 'just winning'. Otherwise quite a few players of the top KOTS clans would most likely have seen bans, simply for winning too much. So I would agree with people that suggest that the players involved were either (a) doing something illegal, or (b) they were reported by someone and CS took action (wrongful or not).

 

The NOCAP: Seraphice's post tells everything you need to know; NOCAP knowingly fielded a player banned from tournament play. Considering precedent set by WG in the past (relating to an Asian or Chinese clan that got caught cheating), this was pretty much the guaranteed result.

And yes, I believe Seraphice / WG in saying NOCAP and the NOCAP players knew said player was banned from competitive play - considering how small and interconnected the top level WoWs competitive community is.

 

 

I thought it was clear too...NOCAP intentionally fielded a banned player and actively tried to circumvent the ban.

[Sambo_Cigars]

All this speculation about what could have caused the ban! I do not think the person who informed UnderTheRadarAgain about this matter was entirely forthright about what happened. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, Lord_Zath said:

As a caster, all I do is call what players are doing as they play. There's no way to know if a player is using an aim bot, account sharing, or anything else that's considered bannable. I have no idea what NOCAP did to bring about this post. Sorry!

Thanks for providing your perspective.  🙂 

[ArIskandir]

4 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

 

Yeah, but that reads like a blanket rule to me. It can cover anything WG wants it to cover.

I don't get exactly how you could 'blind' anybody with smokescreens because if you see the enemy yourself the game will provide the exact same spotting information to your team mates.

Colluding with team mates so they sunk themselves... maybe, if they are dumb enough to say something like that in chat, otherwise, how you differentiate between that and just really bad game play. I regularly 'collude' in that sense with my team mates when I 'purposefully' make sure I am the first one on the team to get sunk, if you go by that route. I suppose there is such a thing as 'toying' with the enemy, possibly, if you let them heal up and start again... so potentially that could be it, but does that 'undermine fair play' or does it 'disrupt normal gameplay'?

I'm trying to think what I could come up with as an example of 12.1.0 myself, but basically only maybe blocking team mates purposefully, running into their torps so they don't score damage... I don't have many ideas, though.

Lets say I'm a DD or CV with smoke and my Div mates are not in position to engage a certain enemy but another green ship is. I lay a smoke screen to block his visión and deny My own spotting.   

Lets say a green ship laid his smoke to farm a ship I'm engaging. I stop engaging and break LoS so the enemy goes dark and can't be farmed by the guy in smoke.   

Lets say a green DD launched a set of stealth torps to an unsuspecting enemy. I open fire on the target in orders to make him reaction and change course. Or in My gunboat, I shadow a green torpboat 'cramping his style' and giving away his position (mine really but I'm near him).  

Lets say a green DD/Sub is sneaking near the reds. I fire on his position repeatedly... {Red} Why is this green dude firing on that empty patch of ocean? Something's going on there. 

Lets say we are all pushing happily as a team and have a clear advantage over the reds. Me and my Div buddies, suddenly turn back and stop engaging the reds, the other green ships in the push are left out hanging, to be focused and sunk in shorts orders. Then we move and clean up house.  ... I could go on, and on...

There's a Lot of scumbag behavior that flies under the Radar, but over 37 matches You might ruffle a Lot of feathers and it becomes easier to detect patterns.

Edited June 9 by ArIskandir

[Admiral_Karasu]

13 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Lets say I'm a DD or CV with smoke and my Div mates are not in position to engage a certain enemy but another green ship is. I lay a smoke screen to block his visión and deny My own spotting.   

Lets say a green ship laid his smoke to farm a ship I'm engaging. I stop engaging and break LoS so the enemy goes dark and can't be farmed by the guy in smoke.   

Lets say a green DD launched a set of stealth torps to an unsuspecting enemy. I open fire on the target in orders to make him reaction and change course. Or in My gunboat, I shadow a green torpboat 'cramping his style' and giving away his position (mine really but I'm near him).  

Lets say a green DD/Sub is sneaking near the reds. I fire on his position repeatedly... {Red} Why is this green dude firing on that empty patch of ocean? Something's going on there. 

Lets say we are all pushing happily as a team and have a clear advantage over the reds. Me and my Div buddies, suddenly turn back and stop engaging the reds, the other green ships in the push are left out hanging, to be focused and sunk in shorts orders. Then we move and clean up house.  ... I could go on, and on...

There's a Lot of scumbag behavior that flies under the Radar, but over 37 matches You might ruffle a Lot of feathers and it becomes easier to detect patterns.

Agreed. That sort of behavior could accidentally happen, something like somebody firing at a ship you've fired torps at actually happens fairly regularly. If the same people were to do these repeatedly, WG could detect a pattern.

[Lord_Zath]

6 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Well, do you remember if you spotted any odd goings on?

Nope!

[Andrewbassg]

On 6/9/2024 at 4:35 PM, Ensign Cthulhu said:

What??? 

Good players notice things, good players want fair play, proper balance and want a healthy game.

Which all are cardinal sins in Wedgie's eyes. 

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

2 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Good players notice things, good players want fair play, proper balance and want a healthy game.

Which all are cardinal sins in Wedgie's eyes. 

 

I would more go with...

Good players recognize being screwed by WG and can communicate it to others effectively. Reasons why WG hates folks like Flamu and LittleWhiteMouse so much...

Edited June 11 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[Ensign Cthulhu]

I think there are a couple of people here who prefer their own definition of a "good player" over the true definition.

Good players don't come here and whine about how badly they're getting screwed over, because their winrate tells them they aren't.

[Andrewbassg]

20 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I think there are a couple of people here who prefer their own definition of a "good player" over the true definition.

Good players don't come here and whine about how badly they're getting screwed over, because their winrate tells them they aren't.

Yoo....... i never said that Imma  good player. Still it seems the Wedgie disagrees with you 'bout em stats.....

Edited June 11 by Andrewbassg

[Admiral_Karasu]

44 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I think there are a couple of people here who prefer their own definition of a "good player" over the true definition.

Good players don't come here and whine about how badly they're getting screwed over, because their winrate tells them they aren't.

 

24 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Yoo....... i never said that Imma  good player. Still it seems the Wedgie disagrees with you 'bout em stats.....

 

I think I must be a good player.

[Asym]

On 6/9/2024 at 9:53 AM, ArIskandir said:

I think if there was actual cheats/hacks involved, the penalty would be bigger and the phrasing would be explicit about it.

The phrasing refers 'fair play' and 'disrupting normal gameplay'. They might like to paint it as if 'winning too much' is disruptive, but it is far more likely they were doing some actions that got them banned like blinding team mates with smokescreens (so they can farm the damage themselves), collaborating in team mates being sunk (so they can farm more damage themselves), 'toying' with enemies and unnecessarily prolonging the game (so they can farm more damage or fulfill mission requirements), physics abuse on team mates (the old pushing you out of your smoke)... there's a lot of stuff you can do to troll people, particularly if there are 3 of you in a match.

Actually, they may actually have a spreadsheet threshold/throughput monitor...  Remember, throughput is revenue...  Those losing players simply got fed up and left.  Which, triggered the spreadsheet margins and........they removed the threat to what the spreadsheet allows....  This is all about money and the game mechanics that earn money.  So........tin foil time>?  Or, since we now have a event winner that may have bot-ed 24/7/365 and........????

Think about this below....

On 6/9/2024 at 9:17 AM, Love_Ur_Cits said:

First, this was, without a doubt, a bone-headed decision by NOCAP.  Plain and simple.

I will add that these clans (and you'll see the same names pop up over and over again) are HIGHLY competitive.  There are several very good clans, but there is a level above that which, when KOTS comes around, are just precision machines.  These clans seek the best of the best, and from one season to the next, you are more than likely to see different players in the overall makeup of the clans.  You will see players and clans transfer people in and out in order to optimize their level of effectiveness for competitive matches.  I no longer play, nor will I ever play competitive again - my mindset just is not in it anymore, but here are my transfers in and out to give you an example.

These transfers were to optimize the effectiveness of given clans. My focus was on DDs and Cruisers. By the way, I did not make the cut many times - basically, I was a bench warmer at times and called in when needed (we were specialists) to captain certain ships or do a certain job.

These transfers in and out, some may think, are not ethical, but it is no different than a sports team making a mid or late-season trade in order to win a championship.  It's just the competitive nature of these clans and the players within them.  

Personally, I'm glad to have had that experience at such a high level. In the long run, however, it takes a level of commitment that I just lost over time. Real-life issues entered my life, and I just could not devote the time and effort to the competitive play style.  I have the highest respect for players at this level, knowing what it takes to make entry into these competitive clans.  They play and compete at a whole different level.

Nowadays. I only play occasionally on the weekends, all in co-op (yes, I joined the dark side 🤣), helping out my friend @HogHammer with naval battles over at PASN.  I still play my DDs and Cruisers and have a great level of enjoyment doing so.  I do, at times, miss the competitive aspect, but that desire quickly passes.

Regarding winning 37 games in a row and getting a ban from WG.  That is about 9 hours straight worth of games.  That in itself is a feat.  This may be the real deal, but to get a ban from WG, I don't believe we have all the details.  Not that there is something fishy going on, but honestly, that is one hell of a streak.  The match-making gods must have been in their favor that day.

Every hour of every day in videogames, there are players and clans that actually study the game and devise strategies to "enhance winning"....  It's actually a universal gaming standard of some what questionable conduct. 

As I have reported before, we invited advanced players to test an AI prototype in development.  They quit within two weeks !  Why?   Because the AI platform is asymmetrical.....it won't let you exploit it because it calculates what you do and changes itself on the fly....!  The 10 year olds were the best testers for AI......because, they had no expectations nor considered circumventing the game physics or mechanics...!  They simply played the game !!!

Botting that wins an event>?  This mess above ^^^   As the saying goes:  "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying..."

Maybe, we are now seeing to what extent a mature game creates it's own catastrophes.....  No one will stay for a game that [ add your own qualifiers ! ]

Just my opinion.

 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

35 minutes ago, Asym said:

So........tin foil time>?

Yes, tinfoil time.

Occam's razor says the OP's Chinese contact got nailed for cheating and tried to get his side of the story out first.

[OT2_2]

3 hours ago, Asym said:

Actually, they may actually have a spreadsheet threshold/throughput monitor...  Remember, throughput is revenue...  Those losing players simply got fed up and left.  Which, triggered the spreadsheet margins and........they removed the threat to what the spreadsheet allows....  This is all about money and the game mechanics that earn money.  So........tin foil time>?  Or, since we now have a event winner that may have bot-ed 24/7/365 and........????

Think about this below....

Every hour of every day in videogames, there are players and clans that actually study the game and devise strategies to "enhance winning"....  It's actually a universal gaming standard of some what questionable conduct. 

As I have reported before, we invited advanced players to test an AI prototype in development.  They quit within two weeks !  Why?   Because the AI platform is asymmetrical.....it won't let you exploit it because it calculates what you do and changes itself on the fly....!  The 10 year olds were the best testers for AI......because, they had no expectations nor considered circumventing the game physics or mechanics...!  They simply played the game !!!

Botting that wins an event>?  This mess above ^^^   As the saying goes:  "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying..."

Maybe, we are now seeing to what extent a mature game creates it's own catastrophes.....  No one will stay for a game that [ add your own qualifiers ! ]

Just my opinion.

 

On the money!

[Unlooky]

On 6/8/2024 at 8:26 PM, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

So, apparently this happened on Tuesday 4th June. My Chinese contact on Discord messaged me to tell me about it. He was in a super-unicum division with 2 clan members when they all received a ban at the same time - image attached. (I supersized it because the original image is too small for my eyes to read on screen - LOL)

I naturally quizzed him regarding cheats and hacks, and he of course assured me none of them use any cheats or hacks.

So if that is all above board then it seems weegee issued a 7 day ban for being too good.

I know many of us dislike triple unicum divisions in our games, but none of us have ever expressed a desire for weegee to ban them. At least I never have.

Any thoughts?

WG has recently issued a ban wave for players caught exploiting the invincibility bug (or perhaps in general.)

Are you 100%, absolutely sure that there was 0 actual cheating involved? Because I've seen the messages from multiple people who had their account's banned performing that exploit, and they have the exact same date and ban reason.