7 day ban for winning 37 games in a row

[Andrewbassg]

8 hours ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

So, apparently

it would be interesting to "know" what mode was played. But given Wedgie;s distaste for good players......hmmm.....

[a252]

Let me guess: toxic unicom division?

You have overstayed your welcome and someone actually bothered to send report ticket

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 minute ago, a252 said:

Let me guess: toxic unicom division?

You have overstayed your welcome and someone actually bothered to send report ticket

Could you define a 'toxic unicum division' for me?

[Wolfswetpaws]

9 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Speaking of which:

Wow.
I hadn't heard about that ^^^ until I read your post, this morning.
Very interesting.

[Wolfswetpaws]

9 hours ago, oldblackdog said:

9 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Speaking of which:

Expand  

Hmmm...that's interesting. Perhaps Lord Zath or one of the other streamers who cover these tournaments can give us some more insight on this subject.

Good question. 
I "second the motion" and "tag" @Lord_Zath to ask if he can shed light upon tournament shenannigans and the subsequent investigations & adjudications of player(s)?
 

[yss_turtleship]

7 hours ago, SureBridge said:

37 games is around 10 hours of continuous play: I'm into burnt out and stupid in a lot less than that

How about playing for 3 days straight so that you can win a contest that WG held, only taking breaks for necessities and the like? A merc we recently used in CB remarked that he and a fellow clanmate were wrongfully and briefly disqualified from the contest due to the amount of time they played continuously.

I used to be able to play CB for the full four-hour window but can only do two at the max these days.

[oldblackdog]

7 minutes ago, yss_turtleship said:

How about playing for 3 days straight so that you can win a contest that WG held, only taking breaks for necessities and the like? A merc we recently used in CB remarked that he and a fellow clanmate were wrongfully and briefly disqualified from the contest due to the amount of time they played continuously.

I used to be able to play CB for the full four-hour window but can only do two at the max these days.

Hmmm...I've been known to binge under certain circumstances. If I'm trying to complete a mission or something, and the Rays are playing a double-header, I can easily pile up 50-100 co-op games in a single day. I've never heard a peep from WG about my play time, so I have to suspect that something else is going on in this incident. 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

26 minutes ago, oldblackdog said:

I can easily pile up 50-100 co-op games in a single day.

I've never kept count, but I can keep up co-op play for hours if necessary. I once pulled an all-nighter in one of the space modes a few years back and a similar thing in the first Puerto RIco event to rank out in their 1v1 Sprint. Not a peep heard from WG.

4 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

But given Wedgie;s distaste for good players

What??? 

Edited June 9 by Ensign Cthulhu

[YouSatInGum]

7 hours ago, SureBridge said:

37 games is around 10 hours of continuous play: I'm into burnt out and stupid in a lot less than that

Even at an 80% win rate, the chances of winning 37 games in a row are pretty tiny: 0.8^37 = 0.026% (edit - about the same as my chance of winning 8 games in a row)

at a more "reasonable" win rate of "only" 65% that goes down to 0.0000012%. (1.2E-7) That's getting into lottery ticket territory. (edit - about the same as me winning 23 in a row: to quote the princess bride "Inconceivable!")

Even with a super-unicum division, the odds of (at some point) having the rest of your team be 100% spud by weight is very high. I could see a ban being upheld purely on a "statistical" basis. (Hey boss, the chance for this unicum player doing that is lower than your lifetime chance of being hit by lightning...)

So maybe they were on a roll, and everyone else on the server was a super-spud. If I was the "house" I'd be limiting my losses even if I didn't have definite "proof" that there was cheating involved.

Actually I think 3 unicums in a div, (especially if in a div that compliments like a CV div) can likely achieve a 90% WR.  Ship's Win Rates are much more nuanced than simple probability calculations like coin flips or dice rolls but simplifying that to .9³⁷ = .02 (2%).  Not likely but if you did this enough times eventually it would happen. 

The harder to believe part of this is if this was played in a single session.  Assuming a 11 min game avg and 2 min for drops and start-up, that's 8 hour continuous with no breaks. 

As usual, there is going to be a lot more to this story and some missing details that are important.  However, it does highlight how divisions make "Randoms" anything but random.  Being able to hand pick 2 or 3 (depending on how you look at it) members of your team before the Matchmaker even touches the team composition is anything but random.

This is the primary reason why I play ranked and very little random because I usually don't have time to division and playing randoms solo is like playing with the deck stacked against you.  The numbers overwhelming bear this out as players in good clans that often play divisioned almost always have several standard deviations of WR difference between their solo and division stats.

13 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

One wonders if they were doing some more shady things like sync dropping and then throwing matches to each other or doing too much troll talking at the teams they were beating...

It would be interesting to see some replays from the matches.

The troll talking was how the AAK divisions got into trouble some time back. WG threatened the unicum clans with bans, not for the division itself, but for the extremely toxic chat they were using while celebrating their easy wins.

In general I don't care for sync dropping but I can tell you from experience that normal sync dropping is not very reliable in divisions ending up facing each other and being on the same side is particularly rare (There must be a clan tag check in the algorithm of some sort).  Now there IS a way to more reliably end up facing each other, but to turn that into a practical advantage you would have to be multi-boxing at the very least, but I'm not going to share the rest of the procedure.  However, I will say that anybody with a good working knowledge of how the MM basically works and a motivation to cheat could likely think of how it could be done.

[SolitudeFreak]

52 minutes ago, yss_turtleship said:

How about playing for 3 days straight so that you can win a contest that WG held, only taking breaks for necessities and the like? A merc we recently used in CB remarked that he and a fellow clanmate were wrongfully and briefly disqualified from the contest due to the amount of time they played continuously.

I remember the discussion about this in the discord. I believe those two received wrongful bans due to false reports being filed to CS by a certain user there who kept claiming that those two users were 'match rigging' (he was wrong obviously, but that didn't stop him from abusing the CS reporting system). Without thoroughly investigating the reports, all CS saw was a massive amount of games, and banned them citing botting. It took a manual review of the hours upon hours of gameplay and nearly a week to clear their names. While the strikes were lifted and they did get their ships, they still had to serve the duration of the ban during the investigation.

This issue lacks context in that I don't know why a ban was applied, but if they did 'win too may games', this could be the result of a karen or two spamming CS with false reports, as I believe that is what happened during the Tsurugi debacle.

However, without more information for this case, there's no way to know. One or more members of that division could have violated the EULA. If they believe this strike is in error, they need to reach out to CS and a CM.

[Admiral_Karasu]

All I could manage is 37 defeats in as many minutes. Well, at least I would be unlikely to get banned for that.

[Love_Ur_Cits]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

11 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Speaking of which:

Expand  

Wow.
I hadn't heard about that ^^^ until I read your post, this morning.
Very interesting.

First, this was, without a doubt, a bone-headed decision by NOCAP.  Plain and simple.

I will add that these clans (and you'll see the same names pop up over and over again) are HIGHLY competitive.  There are several very good clans, but there is a level above that which, when KOTS comes around, are just precision machines.  These clans seek the best of the best, and from one season to the next, you are more than likely to see different players in the overall makeup of the clans.  You will see players and clans transfer people in and out in order to optimize their level of effectiveness for competitive matches.  I no longer play, nor will I ever play competitive again - my mindset just is not in it anymore, but here are my transfers in and out to give you an example.

These transfers were to optimize the effectiveness of given clans. My focus was on DDs and Cruisers. By the way, I did not make the cut many times - basically, I was a bench warmer at times and called in when needed (we were specialists) to captain certain ships or do a certain job.

These transfers in and out, some may think, are not ethical, but it is no different than a sports team making a mid or late-season trade in order to win a championship.  It's just the competitive nature of these clans and the players within them.  

Personally, I'm glad to have had that experience at such a high level. In the long run, however, it takes a level of commitment that I just lost over time. Real-life issues entered my life, and I just could not devote the time and effort to the competitive play style.  I have the highest respect for players at this level, knowing what it takes to make entry into these competitive clans.  They play and compete at a whole different level.

Nowadays. I only play occasionally on the weekends, all in co-op (yes, I joined the dark side 🤣), helping out my friend @HogHammer with naval battles over at PASN.  I still play my DDs and Cruisers and have a great level of enjoyment doing so.  I do, at times, miss the competitive aspect, but that desire quickly passes.

Regarding winning 37 games in a row and getting a ban from WG.  That is about 9 hours straight worth of games.  That in itself is a feat.  This may be the real deal, but to get a ban from WG, I don't believe we have all the details.  Not that there is something fishy going on, but honestly, that is one hell of a streak.  The match-making gods must have been in their favor that day.

[ArIskandir]

13 hours ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

Any thoughts?

Reads like there was a heavy side of trolling going on.   

The penalty is too low for hack/cheating and they don't ban winning, this was unsportsmanship conduct. Aka the dudes were trolling too much,

[Admiral_Karasu]

6 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Reads like there was a heavy side of trolling going on.   

The penalty is too low for hack/cheating and they don't ban winning, this was unsportsmanship conduct. Aka the dudes were trolling too much,

Some elaboration is required.

[SolitudeFreak]

11 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

The penalty is too low for hack/cheating

A 7-day ban was issued to the two players accused (later exonerated) of botting their way to 3rd and 4th place in the NA Tsurugi leaderboard. This sounds like a standard first offense game ban duration.

Edited June 9 by SolitudeFreak

[Love_Ur_Cits]

32 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Actually I think 3 unicums in a div, (especially if in a div that compliments like a CV div) can likely achieve a 90% WR.  Ship's Win Rates are much more nuanced than simple probability calculations like coin flips or dice rolls but simplifying that to .9³⁷ = .02 (2%).  Not likely but if you did this enough times eventually it would happen. 

The harder to believe part of this is if this was played in a single session.  Assuming a 11 min game avg and 2 min for drops and start-up, that's 8 hour continuous with no breaks. 

As usual, there is going to be a lot more to this story and some missing details that are important.  However, it does highlight how divisions make "Randoms" anything but random.  Being able to hand pick 2 or 3 (depending on how you look at it) members of your team before the Matchmaker even touches the team composition is anything but random.

The above is spot on. A division of 3 unicums can rule a match. I did not think about a CV division, but that makes sense. I think my 3-div WR is close to 73% and drops to 63% in a 2-man division.  A good division of players who communicate during matches can make a big difference.

True, I think we are missing some additional context regarding this win streak. Playing that length of time is brutal by any standards or devotion to the game.

[Itwastuesday]

14 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Some elaboration is required.

Maybe CV 2x sub div

[HogHammer]

7 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Maybe CV 2x sub div

We have done that in our clan.  And, damn, does chat light up 🤣.

[ArIskandir]

23 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Some elaboration is required.

I think if there was actual cheats/hacks involved, the penalty would be bigger and the phrasing would be explicit about it.

The phrasing refers 'fair play' and 'disrupting normal gameplay'. They might like to paint it as if 'winning too much' is disruptive, but it is far more likely they were doing some actions that got them banned like blinding team mates with smokescreens (so they can farm the damage themselves), collaborating in team mates being sunk (so they can farm more damage themselves), 'toying' with enemies and unnecessarily prolonging the game (so they can farm more damage or fulfill mission requirements), physics abuse on team mates (the old pushing you out of your smoke)... there's a lot of stuff you can do to troll people, particularly if there are 3 of you in a match.

[HogHammer]

32 minutes ago, Love_Ur_Cits said:

I do, at times, miss the competitive aspect,

So, are you up for some Clan Battles?

 

(Me laughing...)

[Love_Ur_Cits]

1 minute ago, HogHammer said:

So, are you up for some Clan Battles?

 

(Me laughing...)

I'm glad you're joking!

[Admiral_Karasu]

7 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I think if there was actual cheats/hacks involved, the penalty would be bigger and the phrasing would be explicit about it.

The phrasing refers 'fair play' and 'disrupting normal gameplay'. They might like to paint it as if 'winning too much' is disruptive, but it is far more likely they were doing some actions that got them banned like blinding team mates with smokescreens (so they can farm the damage themselves), collaborating in team mates being sunk (so they can farm more damage themselves), 'toying' with enemies and unnecessarily prolonging the game (so they can farm more damage or fulfill mission requirements), physics abuse on team mates (the old pushing you out of your smoke)... there's a lot of stuff you can do to troll people, particularly if there are 3 of you in a match.

Yes but where exactly is this stated in the rules, or is this some ban card that WG can pull out when they feel like it?

[Rollingonit]

24 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Yes but where exactly is this stated in the rules, or is this some ban card that WG can pull out when they feel like it?

... It's quite literally posted by the OP lol. 

12.1 of EULA.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

6 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

But given Wedgie;s distaste for good players

What??? 

Don't worry.  I've seen you play on your Twitch stream.  You're not *that* good of a player.  😉     🙂 
 

[ArIskandir]

30 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Yes but where exactly is this stated in the rules, or is this some ban card that WG can pull out when they feel like it?

Apparently section 12.1.o