D-Day, the Real One, Not the WG Event

[Utt_Bugglier]

The 80th Anniversary of the Real Thing is today. Take some time to reflect on that.

 

That is all.

[thornzero]

My Grandfather landed on D-Day+3. He was a medic. Finished the war at E-6 with a Purple Heart. His younger brother, not so lucky; stepped on a mine in country; he was only 18.

[I_cant_Swim_]

10 minutes ago, thornzero said:

My Grandfather landed on D-Day+3.

Where did they land?

[Jakob Knight]

I think many people these days would benefit from remembering what those men were fighting for, why they chose to enter that hell on Earth.  What they were willing to give up and why.

 

And to remember that history not understood and remembered is history that repeats.  

 

 

 

Edited June 6 by Jakob Knight

[thornzero]

1 hour ago, I_cant_Swim_ said:

Where did they land?

Honestly I don't know. He talked about it a little with his daughters but never with the grand children. I found that much out from my Aunt.

[HogHammer]

Earlier this week, I posted several videos that are well worth viewing. The third video, which relates to veterans' stories on that day, is really interesting and emotional.

 

[Snargfargle]

None of my relatives actually landed on D-Day. My great uncle was fighting in Italy. My other great uncle was flying B-24 bombers. My cousin was on a C-47 dropping paratroopers. There are only about a hundred thousand WWII vets left in the US. The last one I personally knew, a local farmer, died last year at age 98. He was with the Rainbow Division when they liberated Dachau.

[I_cant_Swim_]

2 hours ago, thornzero said:

Honestly I don't know. He talked about it a little with his daughters but never with the grand children. I found that much out from my Aunt.

It is interesting that so many of these folks, who have done so much, talked so little about it. Maybe they felt, on reflection, like it was such a huge, violent, massive movement that was so overpowering, and traumatic, and they themselves so small and insignificant.  When in truth they were not. They were Everything.

[Admiral_Karasu]

The last surviving warships. Just noticed this thing in my YouTube feed. No minions this time, promise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--f6N_5ivl8

[AdmiralThunder]

I think about D-Day every year when its anniversary roles around. I think of it because I am lucky to be here. 

My Dad was a Combat Engineer with the 5th Engineer Special Brigade - 348th Engineer Combat Battalion and landed at Omaha Beach in the 1st waves of troops on the opening morning. His unit was tasked with blowing up tank barriers and opening the beaches up. Basically what you see in the opening of Saving Private Ryan where Tom Hanks is crouching behind the barrier by the water (the landings in the movie were so realistic my Dad could not watch that part of the movie - he tried and then had massive PTSD issues for almost a month even though it was decades later).

My Dad lost a LOT of friends that day. After clearing the landing zone my Dad and his unit were moved up and then tasked with blowing up barbed wire (Bangalore torpedoes as show in the movie) and also placing charges on German bunkers and such. Always at the front of the battle. Somehow my Dad made it through the landing and only took shrapnel from a mortar in his hand (which he never reported and treated himself - sulfur powder - because he didn't want to be sent to the rear).

Once the beach was secure and the Allies began to move inland a few days later my Dad could have stayed on the beach building piers, supply dumps, etc... with his Engineer Battalion but he put in for a transfer to a combat infantry unit because he was "there to get the damn job done not stay behind safe on the beach" which was granted. Dad got transferred to the 3rd Army - 83rd Infantry Division - 331st Regiment.

Dad then fought in northern France, Belgum, Luxembourg, and Germany. He didn't like to talk about his war experiences (and I never pushed him out of respect) but now and then would open up. One of his most painful memories, other than Omaha Beach, was when he was sent to check a town out in Luxembourg (may have been Belgium or even France he was never really sure as it was a small town right where all 3 met and he could never remember the name to try and look it up - he thought Luxembourg though) with a squad of men (Dad was acting Sgt at the time). As he and the men advanced down a road into the town the Germans attacked from a hillside through some grapevines plus hit them with mortars. It didn't go well and my Dad and another man were the only ones to make it back. Dad always blamed himself and had nightmares for years during the early part of my parents' marriage where he would wake up screaming "they're coming through the grapevines" in a cold sweat and with tears streaming down his face. I think that sense of feeling like it was somehow his fault, as he was responsible for those men, haunted him more than anything that happened in the war. The pain in his eyes decades later when he spoke of it to me was very visible and broke my heart (brings tears to my eyes now remembering it). 

Dad got dysentery and was in the hospital for a few weeks. When he got out he was transferred to the 1st Army - 1st Infantry Division - 18th Regiment - 3rd Battalion. He was on his way to the company HQ, on November 23, 1944 (Thanksgiving morning - Hurtgen Forrest in Germany), to report in and find out where to go when the road he was on came under German artillery fire. Dad and everyone else dove for the ditches and bomb holes along the road. A salvo bracketed the hole my Dad was in, and according to reports from those who saw it, "lifted him up like a rag doll and threw him hundreds of feet into the air and out into the field by the road". The amazing thing is Dad was not injured (or killed obviously). He was however knocked out (basically a coma) and he woke up 2 weeks later on a hospital ship in the English Channel. No broken bones, internal injuries, etc... just some mild scrapes and scratches. However, it did damage his hearing which is something he dealt with his whole life after that (he had to retire as Principal in the 70's because it was too hard to hear the young kids). 

Dad was sent home after that. He did spend some time in the National Guard in the late 40's and early 50's but got out before he would have been sent to Korea.

Dad did not receive a Purple Heart for the injury on Omaha Beach nor for the incident in Germany. He didn't report the Omaha Beach one and the other one got overlooked. There were a few other things he qualified for and should have got (like a Bronze Star) but didn't (that happened a lot with so many men).  I spoke with one of our State Senators once about it and he was willing to help get Dad what he was owed. Was going to be an uphill fight as Dad's records were destroyed in the big 1973 National Personnel Records Center fire in St. Louis but it was not impossible and we had things we could use (like discharge papers, unit documents, and such). When Dad found out he went ballistic. He told me in no uncertain terms to drop it (not angrily just forcefully LOL). So I did. I would have liked to see him get what he was owned but out of respect for the man I let it go.

Here is a cool story from his time in the service. When Dad was in basic training he was with men from other New England states (Dad from NH) at Fort Devens (being trained as engineers - 150th Engineer Combat Battalion). One of the other guys was non other than boxing great and undefeated Heavyweight Champion (not at the time of course) Rocky Marciano who was from MA. My Dad was really young and kind of scrawny at the time (see pic below) and was constantly picked on by a bully in the unit. The guy was a semi pro boxer and thought he was a tough guy who could do what he wanted and was abusive to everyone. One day he went too far with my Dad and Marciano stepped in to stop it. The guy thought he could take him. Big mistake. Marciano beat the ever loving crap out of the guy. Funny, he never bothered my Dad or anyone else ever again LOL. Always thought it was cool that my Dad knew Rocky Marciano and even more so that he defended my Dad and looked out for him.

Dad passed at 89 yrs old in June 2014. He was just 17 when he entered the army during WW2. I had a special trip planned for him that September but sadly he didn't make it. We were going to the D-Day Memorial in Bedford, VA and to see Wisconsin in Norfolk, VA.  He was looking forward to it and I had even got him one of those veteran hats with all his "stuff" on it (he never got to wear it as he was saving it for the trip 😞). I had called ahead to both places to make wheelchair arrangements (he could walk ok but got tired out and had some emphysema so better safe than sorry). In the process of speaking with the places I mentioned Dad was a WW2 and Omaha beach veteran. Dad never knew it but both places were going to honor him when we were there. Man it broke my heart having to call back and tell them he had passed and we wouldn't be coming. I would have loved to see him honored for what he did. He never wanted that and as said above did it because it needed to be done but I truly believe it would have meant a lot to him.

My Dad was the best. We were super close and I miss him so much. And if this sounds like some proud son bragging and carrying on about his Dad...well. you are damn skippy I am!  

Edited June 6 by AdmiralThunder

[I_cant_Swim_]

@AdmiralThunder Thank you, mate, for sharing this. You are right to be proud. I have sat here for a while, thinking about your story, wishing I could write something that sufficiently describes my gratitude to the brave and selfless men like your dad. I cannot. Instead I find myself wishing I had had an opportunity to meet him and tell him so myself.

💜

[invicta2012]

@AdmiralThunder Thank you for writing that. The stories of veterans never fail to amaze, and your father seems like a man thoroughly worthy of respect. I hope he inspired plenty of kids in his teaching career!

I find it amazing that his generation could deal with things no-one should see, which caused trauma which wasn't understood, acknowledged or properly named, and still be good human beings. I have friends and family members who have been to war and have experienced PTSD as a result; my heart goes out to anyone affected like that, and I have nothing but applause for those who experienced so much and came back and made so much of their lives. 

With regard to D-Day and the commemorations; it's worth remembering not only the beach landings but the brutal campaign in Normandy which followed. A favourite poem of mine (written by Louis Simpson, an American soldier who survived an ambush in the Battle of Carentan, a few days after D-day) tells the story well: http://andrewhidas.com/the-maelstrom-of-war-louis-simpsons-carentan-o-carentan/. There are so many of these stories which get lost in the overall narrative, but they're of as much significance to individuals as the landings themselves.

[I_cant_Swim_]

10 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

There are so many of these stories which get lost in the overall narrative, but they're of as much significance to individuals as the landings themselves.

^^ So much this.

[Wolfswetpaws]

36 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

@AdmiralThunder Thank you for writing that. The stories of veterans never fail to amaze, and your father seems like a man thoroughly worthy of respect. I hope he inspired plenty of kids in his teaching career!

I find it amazing that his generation could deal with things no-one should see, which caused trauma which wasn't understood, acknowledged or properly named, and still be good human beings. I have friends and family members who have been to war and have experienced PTSD as a result; my heart goes out to anyone affected like that, and I have nothing but applause for those who experienced so much and came back and made so much of their lives. 

With regard to D-Day and the commemorations; it's worth remembering not only the beach landings but the brutal campaign in Normandy which followed. A favourite poem of mine (written by Louis Simpson, an American soldier who survived an ambush in the Battle of Carentan, a few days after D-day) tells the story well: http://andrewhidas.com/the-maelstrom-of-war-louis-simpsons-carentan-o-carentan/. There are so many of these stories which get lost in the overall narrative, but they're of as much significance to individuals as the landings themselves.

 

Quote

PTSD and Shell Shock
"PTSD, or post-traumatic stress disorder, leapt to the public’s consciousness when the American Psychiatric Association added the health issue to its diagnostic manual of mental disorders in the 1980s. But PTSD—known to previous generations as shell shock, soldier’s heart, combat fatigue or war neurosis—has roots stretching back centuries and was widely known during ancient times.  ..."
https://www.history.com/topics/inventions/history-of-ptsd-and-shell-shock

Also
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/heart/themes/shellshock.html

https://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/treat/essentials/history_ptsd.asp

[AdmiralThunder]

1 hour ago, I_cant_Swim_ said:

@AdmiralThunder Thank you, mate, for sharing this. You are right to be proud. I have sat here for a while, thinking about your story, wishing I could write something that sufficiently describes my gratitude to the brave and selfless men like your dad. I cannot. Instead I find myself wishing I had had an opportunity to meet him and tell him so myself.

💜

Thanks my friend.

57 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

I hope he inspired plenty of kids in his teaching career!

Thank you as well for the kind words.

In fact my Dad was an amazing teacher among other things. Back when he taught many times teachers served double duty and also served as the Principal. My Dad started as a teacher, then did the whole teacher/Principal thing, and ended just being a Principal. In all he was an educator (elementary and high school age) for 25+ years.

My Dad touched many of the students in life changing ways. He was a no nonsense, no tolerance for messing around, kind of guy but he also was fair and compassionate. I met many of his students over the years. Some as a kid myself when I visited him at work or went to some school event he was running and then some later in life when I was an adult. I went to high school with kids who had him as their Principal in grade school. I even coached kids in little league who's parents were his students.

Only one person ever had a bad word about him to me and that person was a real piece of work. Not someone who's opinion mattered to me to say the least. I actually mentioned the exchange to my Dad and all he said was how sad he was at how the kid turned out and that he did his best. He considered it a failure he couldn't reach that one.

As a rule the comments were all great. The kids in high school with me loved him (what more can you say than school kids loving their former Principal). A couple of the adults stand out. One was a parent of 2 boys on the baseball team I coached. He flat out told me if not for my Dad he would have wound up in jail, as a no good, and maybe even dead. He had a rough childhood and his parents were not great. As a result he was a hellion and always in trouble. My Dad never gave up on him and he grew into a good man he says because of my Dad. The other was a women my Dad taught. My Dad was the Dad she never had. When she got married she had my Dad give her away. The day of the wedding my parents had car trouble and were awful late. She told the groom, who wanted to get things going, that if he wouldn't wait for my Dad to get there to give her away then he could find someone else to marry. The guy waited LOL. She kept in touch with him and would occasionally come visit us. When he was in the hospital dying she came to see him. I told her you don't want to go in there and see him like that but she sucked it up and went in and said good by. When she came out she broke down like a broken hearted child. My Dad meant that much to her. 

EDIT - forgot this one but it might make you chuckle as it did me when I thought of it. When I was in high school I went out with a girl whose older brother was in my grade and we were friends. He had my Dad as Principal in grade school. She was only allowed to go out on Saturday night between 5PM and 8PM. However, her parents let her go out with me on school nights (home by 8PM) if she had no homework and she could stay out to 11PM Friday and Saturday with me. They had me over to dinner often, made me birthday cakes, etc... Why? Because I was Mr H's boy and that meant something. If I messed around or hurt their daughter they knew I had more to fear from my Dad then them LOL and they knew his son was a gentlemen.

I know how awesome my Dad was. I grew up privileged and honored to be his Son. Despite knowing how great he was it never ceases to amaze me how much he meant to others and especially as a Principal and teacher. Just another testament to what a good man he was.

Ok, that's enough for one day. I am cried out. LOL.

 

Edited June 6 by AdmiralThunder

[Schnitchelkid01_]

My Great Grandfather was in a blimp over D-Day watching from the sky. He said it was one of the most moving things he had seen.

[Asym]

1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Thanks my friend.

Thank you as well for the kind words.

In fact my Dad was an amazing teacher among other things. Back when he taught many times teachers served double duty and also served as the Principal. My Dad started as a teacher, then did the whole teacher/Principal thing, and ended just being a Principal. In all he was an educator (elementary and high school age) for 25+ years.

My Dad touched many of the students in life changing ways. He was a no nonsense, no tolerance for messing around, kind of guy but he also was fair and compassionate. I met many of his students over the years. Some as a kid myself when I visited him at work or went to some school event he was running and then some later in life when I was an adult. I went to high school with kids who had him as their Principal in grade school. I even coached kids in little league who's parents were his students.

Only one person ever had a bad word about him to me and that person was a real piece of work. Not someone who's opinion mattered to me to say the least. I actually mentioned the exchange to my Dad and all he said was how sad he was at how the kid turned out and that he did his best. He considered it a failure he couldn't reach that one.

As a rule the comments were all great. The kids in high school with me loved him (what more can you say than school kids loving their former Principal). A couple of the adults stand out. One was a parent of 2 boys on the baseball team I coached. He flat out told me if not for my Dad he would have wound up in jail, as a no good, and maybe even dead. He had a rough childhood and his parents were not great. As a result he was a hellion and always in trouble. My Dad never gave up on him and he grew into a good man he says because of my Dad. The other was a women my Dad taught. My Dad was the Dad she never had. When she got married she had my Dad give her away. The day of the wedding my parents had car trouble and were awful late. She told the groom, who wanted to get things going, that if he wouldn't wait for my Dad to get there to give her away then he could find someone else to marry. The guy waited LOL. She kept in touch with him and would occasionally come visit us. When he was in the hospital dying she came to see him. I told her you don't want to go in there and see him like that but she sucked it up and went in and said good by. When she came out she broke down like a broken hearted child. My Dad meant that much to her. 

EDIT - forgot this one but it might make you chuckle as it did me when I thought of it. When I was in high school I went out with a girl whose older brother was in my grade and we were friends. He had my Dad as Principal in grade school. She was only allowed to go out on Saturday night between 5PM and 8PM. However, her parents let her go out with me on school nights (home by 8PM) if she had no homework and she could stay out to 11PM Friday and Saturday with me. They had me over to dinner often, made me birthday cakes, etc... Why? Because I was Mr H's boy and that meant something. If I messed around or hurt their daughter they knew I had more to fear from my Dad then them LOL and they knew his son was a gentlemen.

I know how awesome my Dad was. I grew up privileged and honored to be his Son. Despite knowing how great he was it never ceases to amaze me how much he meant to others and especially as a Principal and teacher. Just another testament to what a good man he was.

Ok, that's enough for one day. I am cried out. LOL.

What a Dad ! 

Like your dad, my dad was a Marine whom, like most men in that era, joined at Seventeen...  His older Brother, was flying missions when my Dad joined the Marines in earl 1944.   

What is really interesting is that my Uncle flew from early 1942 till the war ended.  His records and all of my families records went up in smoke when ARPERCEN burnt...

Although, we know he was flying over your Dad on that fateful morning and for weeks after they got off the beach,  bombing the ever living crap out of the Enemy....

Here's one page of five my cousin has....

What makes your Dad and my Uncle unique is that they, along with a lot of combat veterans seemed to have gone into teaching !!!  My Uncle died when I was in the service of a massive heart attack, in between classes,  in 1975....  He never said a single word and all of us were told not to ask.... 

My Dad, never got to the Pacific because the war ended mid trip.  And, he never taught. 

Gosh, that ARPERCEN fire ate four or possibly 5 generations of our families military records.  We serve to this day !

Hooah !  I salute his memory...

 

[HogHammer]

6 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Dad got transferred to the 3rd Army - 83rd Infantry Division - 331st Regiment.

Dad then fought in northern France, Belgum, Luxembourg, and Germany. 

Incredible account of your Dad's service.  Thanks so much for sharing.  Making it through the D-Day landing, he must have had someone looking over him.  The 3rd Army would have been led at the time by Lieutenant General Patton, Major General Paul, and Major General Eddy.  Your dad's journey would have placed him also at the Battle of the Bulge - his making it in what you described is truly impressive.

Coming out of high school, I told my dad that I was thinking about joining the Army.  My dad, having served in Korea and early years in Vietnam, said, "Hell no. There is no way you are going to enlist".  He was shot five times in the back in Vietnam, his uncle died in Luxembourg (Battle of the Bulge), and his great-uncle in WWI died of mustard gas.

It was probably the best advice he ever gave me, but growing up was like being in the military—yes, sir, no, sir—and having beds made up to military specs each morning.  To this day, I still wake up before the crack of dawn without an alarm clock.

Here is my dad's uncle, who died and is buried in Luxembourg.

[AdmiralThunder]

1 hour ago, HogHammer said:

Incredible account of your Dad's service.  Thanks so much for sharing.  Making it through the D-Day landing, he must have had someone looking over him.  The 3rd Army would have been led at the time by Lieutenant General Patton, Major General Paul, and Major General Eddy.  Your dad's journey would have placed him also at the Battle of the Bulge - his making it in what you described is truly impressive.

Coming out of high school, I told my dad that I was thinking about joining the Army.  My dad, having served in Korea and early years in Vietnam, said, "Hell no. There is no way you are going to enlist".  He was shot five times in the back in Vietnam, his uncle died in Luxembourg (Battle of the Bulge), and his great-uncle in WWI died of mustard gas.

It was probably the best advice he ever gave me, but growing up was like being in the military—yes, sir, no, sir—and having beds made up to military specs each morning.  To this day, I still wake up before the crack of dawn without an alarm clock.

Here is my dad's uncle, who died and is buried in Luxembourg.

Yeah my Dad talked of serving under "Old Blood & Guts" Patton (he met him once he told me - briefly no conversation or anything). My Dad actually did not serve during the Battle of the Bulge. That took place mid-December 1944 and into January of 1945. As I posted above, my Dad was injured by an artillery attack on Thanksgiving Day 1944 and was out for 2+ weeks before coming around on a hospital ship in the English Channel. He was sent home then. So he missed that one. Probably a good thing as he for sure used up all his good luck prior LOL.

Yeah, I almost enlisted myself. I had passed/discussed everything I needed to and only had to sign the paperwork with the recruiter. A couple friends and I went to sign up during the Gulf War. I was headed to the Navy and the Master at Arms program. My Dad was NOT happy (about joining up - it wasn't an Army vs Navy thing)! LOL. I ended up not doing it because he brought up a good point. By the time I passed basic training and such it was probably going to be over. I was willing to serve my country in a time of need as my Dad did but I wasn't doing it as a career move. My Dad was right (as always - so frustrating haha) and even the recruiter agreed not to do it if I only planned to do it because we were fighting as it would be over before I could take part.

Thanks for sharing the info on your family. 

Edited June 7 by AdmiralThunder

[Admiral_Karasu]

Thank you, everyone, for sharing your stories and memories. Unsurprisingly, I don't have any close family members who were involved in D-Day. I've probably mentioned earlier that a number of my close relatives took part in the fighting in WW2. My maternal grandfather, and three of my paternal uncles the eldest of who was KIA. One of the uncles was wounded, as was my grandfather who carried pieces of shrapnel in his body for the rest of his life. None of them really were too keen to talk that much about their experiences back home.

As for medals, my grandfather didn't get the commemorative medal he should have been entitled to receive. Long after the war, they were also handing out frontliner pins, but my grandfather didn't 'get' that one either. He could have, but they required him to apply for it and he said that if he was entitled to something he shouldn't have to need to apply for it.

[Schnitchelkid01_]

I will take a photo of my Great Grandfather Vernon Brown, nice memorial plaque we have set up at my Grandma's house! It has his bible and a fabric map of Europe along with his medals and such. He retired a Lt. Colonel after the war, he fought in France behind the lines against French black market activity. He was charged by a guy with a sickle who he had to dispatch. Anyways, later today I will make sure to post the pic, along with any WW2 photos that are in the albums.

[Snargfargle]

 

[palestreamer]

Great stories about your relatives, they were quite a generation.

My father was in Italy at the time of D-day with the Royal Engineers, repairing railroads and building Bailey bridges. The Germans would wait until the bridges were almost finished, and then come and bomb them. He rebuilt one bridge six times.

He spent six days on the beach at Dunkirk. I often wonder if he saw the event where Gallant got hit.

As he was passing away, falling into a coma, the last words he said were "Behind enemy lines". Because he was one of the ones who never talked about it all, we have no idea what happened.

Here he is:

 

 

[palestreamer]

My uncle, Harry Lucas, was on HMS Eastway at D-Day. This was a landing dock ship, capable of landing 800 troops. I don't have any details of what happened that day. But that it his picture as a young sailor in 1929 in my profile at left.

Here is a much tougher looking guy at the end of world war 2:

 

 

Edited June 7 by palestreamer
change pic

[Aethervox]

One of my uncles was on a corvette in the English Channel & I recall him saying the sight of all the ships for D-Day was something to see. Later, in July, his corvette was torpedoed & 2/3s of the crew perished (he survived). Also, a cousin of my father died in July - his bomber was shot down over Picardy (all crew were lost). RCN & RCAF.

Edited June 8 by Aethervox