Pan American brawling line of BB's enroute (sort of)

[AdmiralThunder]

One of the things I have wanted since getting Atlantico in the dockyard was a whole line of ships like it. I absolutely love that ship and have dreamed of the day WG added a whole line of them. Well, it's here at least somewhat.

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/539

Pan America will get a BB tech tree line but it will only be T8-T10. No T3-T7 (sad face). They will be somewhat like Atlantico in that they have the huge 234MM secondary guns (T9 and T10 anyway - no info on T8 - but Atlantico has them at T8 so it should), lots of main guns in dual turrets, etc...

One thing they said I don't like is vulnerable citadels which is NOT like Atlantico. One thing that makes it such a good brawler is the citadel is so hard to hit. That will make brawling a lot harder if the citadel is easy to hit. We will have to see how vulnerable they actually are. They are supposed to get improved repair with fast cooldown though which will help.

Another change is they will get HE and AP not just AP like Atlantico. I would have preferred they stay AP only but oh well. 

So I am very interested to see how this plays out. 

• T8 - ???
• T9 - Los Andes
• T10 - Libertad

T10 Image:

Spoiler

Oh, and another change coming which impacts Atlantico (should anyway) is WG is increasing all Pan American ship base secondary ranges to match the Germans. That means, if it does in fact apply to Atlantico too, that its secondary range with a full build and flag will increase from 11.3km to 11.5km and match its 11.5km concealment. THAT is quite spicy.

EDIT - according to a poster on Reddit WG stated on stream the secondary range increase does apply to Atlantico too so its secondary range and concealment will now be the same @ 11.5km. YES!

So I was hoping for at least T5+ if not T3+ but at least we get T8-T10. That also opens the door for a SuperShip Atlantico. OMG...

Edited June 6 by AdmiralThunder

[tfcas119]

Not a big fan of ignoring T3-7 (especailly when Brazil, Argentina, and Chile have enough real ships/design studies to fill in those lines with a premium or two) but I like the concept of what's there

[Wrath_of_Deadguy]

Wait wait wait. So, instead of releasing a tech line that included literally any of the planned or actually-built South American battleships, they went in completely the opposite direction, omitted all possible low and mid-tier ships, and instead the line will have only high-tier fantasy ships?

That might just be the most WeeGee thing WeeGee has WeeGee'd since the hybrid BB split.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

39 minutes ago, Wrath_of_Deadguy said:

Wait wait wait. So, instead of releasing a tech line that included literally any of the planned or actually-built South American battleships, they went in completely the opposite direction, omitted all possible low and mid-tier ships, and instead the line will have only high-tier fantasy ships?

That might just be the most WeeGee thing WeeGee has WeeGee'd since the hybrid BB split.

When WG asks why we don't respect them, quote this incident.

[Sidelock]

I have two things to say out of this.

1. Im really, like really hoping they'll add tiers 3 to 7 in the future and that this is just WG testing the interest in the Latam Community to see wether they should invest resources on completing the line (although i doubt it considering we had the CL line for quite a while so they should know about the interest from the community by now)

 

2. Are this ships gonna be like a secondary version of UK Battlecruisers? Because that exposed citadel tied to a supposed Brawling design BB is quite the odd choice (no that is unheard of)

Now with that out...

 

<Rant ON>

First, as a Chilean, in actually quite surprised (and a little bit proud) to see my country as the top tier one of this "line"

Second (reads monotonusly), im so exited on that completely made up and historically accurate napkin design they pulled off that we absolutely had the funds to commision to British yards and even modernize in what potentially was the 1940s or 50s chilean economy /s (yeah, this is sarcasm)

I was sure the Ansaldo design for Argentina would be top tier, that was at least actually designed.

Also, we hadn't had a ship named Libertad since 1840, i know why they chose that name, but i dont like it.

Dammit it pisses me off.

<Rant OFF>

All in all, meh, just that... Meh.

[BOBTHEBALL]

1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

One thing they said I don't like is vulnerable citadels which is NOT like Atlantico. One thing that makes it such a good brawler is the citadel is so hard to hit. That will make brawling a lot harder if the citadel is easy to hit. We will have to see how vulnerable they actually are. They are supposed to get improved repair with fast cooldown though which will help.

Well if a ship is exposing herself she should be punished for it that's what I think and many others think as well. Atlantico like you stated yes doesn't have this problem because of the internal armour. However my thinking is that a trade-off for that is speed. These new BBs have ok speed for what they carry and a trade-off for having good speed is having armour which means you can be punished. 

Sure it's not the same as Atlantico but it makes a better game experience for people facing the AI (AI in the first place shouldn't be dealing the amount of damage it does with Schlieffen and Napoli anyway). The person playing these ships can actual move around the map and the person playing against them is actually rewarded when they position better and get broadsides on the enemy. 

It's overall better balance and I think while these ships won't be as broken as Schlieffen for secondary power they won't be as bad to face and will have actual counters.

[oldblackdog]

1 hour ago, Wrath_of_Deadguy said:

That might just be the most WeeGee thing WeeGee has WeeGee'd since the hybrid BB split.

Don't underestimate them...they keep moving further down the rabbit hole of fantasy.

Sweden's Tre Kronor & Gottland are just sitting there. Real ships that would fit perfectly at mid-tier. Instead, they give us the Tier 10 Svea...a ship that is based on...what??? Reindeer poo? An old song by ABBA? Maybe it's a Viking legend, but I think I would have heard of that. 

[MidnightPhoenix07]

2 hours ago, Wrath_of_Deadguy said:

Wait wait wait. So, instead of releasing a tech line that included literally any of the planned or actually-built South American battleships, they went in completely the opposite direction, omitted all possible low and mid-tier ships, and instead the line will have only high-tier fantasy ships?

That might just be the most WeeGee thing WeeGee has WeeGee'd since the hybrid BB split.

I was definitely shocked at that, as were a bunch of us in various discord servers. At the very least, you'd have historical ships for Tier III to VI, probably need some sort of blueprint design or "what if" ship at Tier VII, and then go into the high tier ones from the dev blog. Especially seeing as the South American dreadnought race was a fairly significant part of South American naval shipbuilding in the early 1900s.

But instead WG decided to just ignore that and start at Tier VIII, with (unless the Tier VIII ends up being a real ship somehow) all "what if" ships. Which would have been needed for high tiers, and could fit with some of the South American countries looking to acquire ships from the US and UK. But that still doesn't make up for the fact that there were real options to fill out the rest of the line. 

I'm at least somewhat glad they're sticking with the secondary focus that Atlantico started, although I agree with AT that going to the fairly generic HE/AP combo is a bit disappointing. Old premiums don't necessarily have to have their gimmicks become the gimmicks of a future line (look at the Italian and Pan Asian cruisers, or even Paolo Emilio and the tech tree destroyers), but keeping the secondary focus/AP only main battery would connect them to both an existing premium and continuing the established gimmick from the cruiser line. An AP only battleship line could have some issues at lower tiers depending on how they get balanced (and they wouldn't really have the improved secondary suites of high tiers to make up for it), but they'd still be possible. And Atlantico's already proved AP only can work at high tiers.

[pepe_trueno]

to early to make a judgement but a quick look to those stats and they already feel like a death trap

exposed citadel is a horrible drawback for a brawling ship even more so with guns having bad angles requiring showing  side to use them, the cherry of the top is the  poor turning rate making the above problems worst.

 

unless those 234mm come out with some sick DPM the german BC line will be better in nearly every aspect that matter for a secondary build.

 

 

[tm63au]

Is this for real !!!!!!! ?

Where are the Italian, Dutch, Norwegian and Polish and lets not forget IJN tech tree line of Subs.

[pepe_trueno]

5 hours ago, tm63au said:

Is this for real !!!!!!! ?

Where are the Italian, Dutch, Norwegian and Polish and lets not forget IJN tech tree line of Subs.

who need those, sub with a sword is much better.

[Aethervox]

12 hours ago, oldblackdog said:

down the rabbit hole

I'd call this 'going down a drain' 😒.

[Wowzery]

Not surprised no lower tiers.  Its like WG doesn't like those tiers and are pushing the higher tiers.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 minute ago, Wowzery said:

Not surprised no lower tiers.  Its like WG doesn't like those tiers and are pushing the higher tiers.

They are trying not to have people realize how few people are playing the game these days...by squeezing all the population into the top four tiers.

FYI, you can go play tier 5 games in randoms on NA and you regularly see matches filled with bots.

Exploit it now, before WG stops letting tier 5 count for missions and achievements...

[Aethervox]

12 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

They are trying not to have people realize how few people are playing the game these days..

I never play WoT anymore. Disappointing, ofc, War Failing is doing the exact same thing to WoWS that they have done to WoT (drive most early & older players away) 😒.

[mashed68]

40 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

They are trying not to have people realize how few people are playing the game these days...by squeezing all the population into the top four tiers.

FYI, you can go play tier 5 games in randoms on NA and you regularly see matches filled with bots.

Exploit it now, before WG stops letting tier 5 count for missions and achievements...

I play tier 5, I don't see bots. 
Que last night was fuller then I've seen in a couple years....

[thornzero]

I've been messing about in tier 5 on EU and there is some bots mixed in 4/5 per side or even a 9v9 match without bots from time to time. 

[cheapinkc]

24 minutes ago, mashed68 said:

I play tier 5, I don't see bots. 
Que last night was fuller then I've seen in a couple years....

Very hit or miss, at least 70% of my tier 5 games are at least partially populated with bots.  

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

52 minutes ago, mashed68 said:

I play tier 5, I don't see bots. 
Que last night was fuller then I've seen in a couple years....

Both of my tier 5 games last night were filled with bots.

I see this about 75% of the time since April.

[Wulf_Ace]

5 hours ago, mashed68 said:

I play tier 5, I don't see bots. 
Que last night was fuller then I've seen in a couple years....

probably beacouse of dockyard missions

[Wulf_Ace]

20 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

One of the things I have wanted since getting Atlantico in the dockyard was a whole line of ships like it. I absolutely love that ship and have dreamed of the day WG added a whole line of them. Well, it's here at least somewhat.

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/539

Pan America will get a BB tech tree line but it will only be T8-T10. No T3-T7 (sad face). They will be somewhat like Atlantico in that they have the huge 234MM secondary guns (T9 and T10 anyway - no info on T8 - but Atlantico has them at T8 so it should), lots of main guns in dual turrets, etc...

One thing they said I don't like is vulnerable citadels which is NOT like Atlantico. One thing that makes it such a good brawler is the citadel is so hard to hit. That will make brawling a lot harder if the citadel is easy to hit. We will have to see how vulnerable they actually are. They are supposed to get improved repair with fast cooldown though which will help.

Another change is they will get HE and AP not just AP like Atlantico. I would have preferred they stay AP only but oh well. 

So I am very interested to see how this plays out. 

• T8 - ???
• T9 - Los Andes
• T10 - Libertad

T10 Image:

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh, and another change coming which impacts Atlantico (should anyway) is WG is increasing all Pan American ship base secondary ranges to match the Germans. That means, if it does in fact apply to Atlantico too, that its secondary range with a full build and flag will increase from 11.3km to 11.5km and match its 11.5km concealment. THAT is quite spicy.

EDIT - according to a poster on Reddit WG stated on stream the secondary range increase does apply to Atlantico too so its secondary range and concealment will now be the same @ 11.5km. YES!

So I was hoping for at least T5+ if not T3+ but at least we get T8-T10. That also opens the door for a SuperShip Atlantico. OMG...

they feel just like more yolo ships for this kind of playerbase so people will like them that is for sure ESPECIALLY beacouse they have special gimmick

[SureBridge]

Since (historically) the main use of secondaries was to deal with smaller ships (like DD's) while the main guns engaged "valuable" targets. the WoWS secondaries that are aimed by spastic drunkards which have trouble hitting cruisers let alone DD's are pretty much the opposite of their use (engaging light ships).

As a result you should treat these as Brawling^(tm) ships like Marlborough.

[Unlooky]

16 minutes ago, SureBridge said:

Since (historically) the main use of secondaries was to deal with smaller ships (like DD's) while the main guns engaged "valuable" targets. the WoWS secondaries that are aimed by spastic drunkards which have trouble hitting cruisers let alone DD's are pretty much the opposite of their use (engaging light ships).

As a result you should treat these as Brawling^(tm) ships like Marlborough.

*Standard secondaries.

Actual secondary ships such as Schlieffen and Napoli have improved accuracy to the point where being spotted as a DD within their range means instantly losing 3k to AI gunners. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

2 hours ago, Unlooky said:

*Standard secondaries.

Actual secondary ships such as Schlieffen and Napoli have improved accuracy to the point where being spotted as a DD within their range means instantly losing 3k to AI gunners. 

Pepperich Farm remembers when German battleships had anti-DD secondaries...really made them OP.

[Project45_Opytny]

A well-off member of WoWS Community that has access to premium Gamemodels3D service has already provided some further first-hand information on Libertad.

Original posts: https://nga.178.com/read.php?tid=40611769, https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9060831919

 

Key information:

• Main Battery Firing angles: 35 forward, 33 rearward: comparable with Preussen and Schlieffen, much better than GK.
• Like Atlantico, can unmask all her secondaries within a safe angle (sharper than 30).
• Massachusetts-Casemate dispersion (33R+30) for all secondaries. 210000 DPM from 9.2-inchers (that can penetrate up to 59-mm plating, much superior to any other existing T10 brawlers) and 86400 DPM from 5-inchers for 296400 grand total without further upgrades, and 273000+112320=385320 with Combat Instruction active.
• However, she uses the same parameters for her 9.2-inch secondaries with Atlantico which means they are uncannily vulnerable to various damage.
• Protection scheme resembles Maine and Vermont: 51-mm amidships (deck, upper belt and torpedo bulge), 406-mm citadel belt, exposed slightly above waterline sloped with 28 degrees, and space between bugle and citadel is treated as torpedo protection void with no module HP assigned. Effectiveness is estimated to be comparable with Kreml's citadel regarding broadside and how "vulnerable" her citadel would be can be comparably judged.
• However she has no reinforced bow/stern, neither icebreaker belt nor hidden armored deck and has an uncannily thin traverse bulkhead with only 102-mm which would make her very vulnerable to a few ships that can overmatch 32-mm plating or having a combination of improved autobounce and high penetration.
• Poor deck armor scheme as a whole, comparable to Bismarck regarding interaction with AP bombs.
• USN battleship DCP (20s effect time), Warspite repair party (with only 10% citadel damage restoration ratio though).

Edited June 21 by Project45_Opytny