Italian hightier trainer

[Tricericon]

I only personally own Napoli, and don't regret the purchase although I would save up for coal rather using steel.

Based on what I know of the ships in question and your criteria, I'd go for Lauria or save coal for Napoli.

RP are harder to come by than steel, usually, and Sicilia is likely to want a secondary focused build. RDL plays differently from the tech tree, but can share a captain with them with little trouble.

I would avoid using steel on a coal ship. If you do go for a coal ship, using steel or saving up, Napoli is simply better than Marco Polo.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

3 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Superintendent provides one extra charge of the consumables.
Adrenaline Rush is a skill I don't take.  (Some are fans of that skill.  I am not.  Agree to disagree about it.)
So, that's 6 skill points I can put elsewhere, or simply not use and thus not need 16 skill points.
Top Grade Gunner is for a specific build-path.  It doens't hurt, but it also isn't necessary for a generic cruiser build.

Having an extra heal and smoke allows Napoli to play more aggressively and make more HP trades instead of having to conserve the consumables. 

AR is a mandatory skill for pretty much every ship except for CVs imo. 

Top Grade Gunner is extremely useful for Napoli. Perhaps not a must have, but a no brainer pick for sure.  

There's nothing stopping you from making your own choices.  And that includes me, not stopping you.  🙂 

That said, if you only had 10 skill points, then which skills would you pick?
I ask, because I feel that everything above 10 skill points is a "luxury".
Also, when players are new, they usually don't have a lot of 21-point Commanders laying around. 
Since the experienced will be already capable of making their own choices, I figure that sharing & explaining the options to new players is a more altruistic approach.
 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

Obviously my stance is in favor of taking AR, and I disagree with this reasoning.

If I don't lose 30% of my HP in a game, it was either a blowout or I played extremely passively (and therefore poorly.)

Using your HP to gain position or outtrade the enemy is key to WoWs and, in my opinion, is where the true skill in WoWs lies: knowing what you can get away with doing and exploiting it to your advantage. 

So long as I either survived with an active map presence or died making a key play, I consider myself to have played well. 

Like I said earlier, in an effort to "head off at the pass" any arguments or attempts to convince me of the benefits of the Adrenaline Rush skill, "Agree to disagree".

[BOBTHEBALL]

On 6/4/2024 at 8:29 PM, Prva_paroplavebná said:

Hi all,

I am looking for a hightier Italian premium ship and I need to choose between Lauria and Sicilia as I have resources. Which one is better? 

Another choise is to buy Napoli or Marco Polo for steel... 🤪

What will be Your choise?

Thx.

 

Marco Polo is horrible, not worth it at all. Napoli requires lots of captain points to be good to play with and the build is different to normal ITA cruisers as well. I would go with Lauria or Sicilia but as Sicilia is a Colombo side-grade and Lauria is a unique but amazing ship I would go with Lauria.

[BOBTHEBALL]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

That said, if you only had 10 skill points, then which skills would you pick?

For cruisers:

Gun Feeder

Eye in the sky, consumables enhancement or priority target (Depends heavily on cruiser)

Adrenaline Rush

Concealment expert

 

For battleship:

Gun Feeder

Grease the Gears or brisk

Adrenaline rush

concealment expert or fire prevention (depends on the BB)

 

For destroyers:

Preventative Maintenance

Last Stand

Survivability Expert

Concealment expert (depends on DD)

 

[Utt_Bugglier]

@Prva_paroplavebná, you may not be at this point with WoWs yet, but your best high-tier Italian trainer will ultimately become your ECXP Pool, and your ability to replenish that pool. Or in more down-to-earth terms, your best captain trainer is ANY premium ship you do well in, and a 21-point commander that you have assigned to it. The ECXP generated by them can be poured into ANY captain of ANY nation. When you get to where you have such a captain/ship pairing, the need for ships to be captain trainers for specific nations goes away, and at that point, premium ship selection become a matter of choosing a ship solely on its own merits.

Some forum old-timers of the WoWs forum may recall my saga personalizing one of my captains, “Ugo Catalano, The Indispenable Man who became the ECXP Engine of the world.” He was a captain I had in a Giulio Cesare/Roma/Venezia rotation, and that combination generated the ECXP that built many 21-point captains, and got many others built up to 10, 14, and 18 points, etc.

Of course, this does result in the paradox that a captain gets most of his “training” while he is inactive.

But it does get you out of the misery of building up a captain from scratch.

[Admiral_Karasu]

6 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

 

For destroyers:

Preventative Maintenance

Last Stand

Survivability Expert

Concealment expert (depends on DD)

 

You say CE depends on the DD. Do you mean CE for torp builds and no CE for gun boat DD's?

[BOBTHEBALL]

35 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

You say CE depends on the DD. Do you mean CE for torp builds and no CE for gun boat DD's?

That's basically what I mean yeah. Like for a Sherman you'd rather have AFT than CE. However for Shima you'd want CE. There can be some different cases however, Smaland is a gunboat however you may not want AFT on her so going CE or even FB would be a better choice.

The first 3 skills for a DD Is all the same, however I feel as though the first 4p is different and won't always be CE.

[Unlooky]

16 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

There's nothing stopping you from making your own choices.  And that includes me, not stopping you.  🙂 

That said, if you only had 10 skill points, then which skills would you pick?
I ask, because I feel that everything above 10 skill points is a "luxury".
Also, when players are new, they usually don't have a lot of 21-point Commanders laying around. 
Since the experienced will be already capable of making their own choices, I figure that sharing & explaining the options to new players is a more altruistic approach.
 

Hmm

I always take SI over AR because I value having more HP to "spend" over the DPM increase. Then again, I would immediately take AR after or just flat out spend some CXP to increase to 13 points.

Napoli as I have mentioned, is balanced around a high level build. This is why I did not recommend it in this thread. OP is specifically looking for a captain trainer, implying he does not have a high level captain. 

[Unlooky]

17 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

NOOOOO! Never, ever, never, ever, ad nauseum exchange Steel for Coal unless it is a very miniscule amount and it is an urgent/desperate situation like a Coal ship is about to be removed. WG totally rips you off on the exchange rate and Steel is way harder to get in quantity. Please don't even consider this. It is one of the biggest No-No's in game.

Lauria is kind of overrated honestly and to me doesn't really play/feel like the Tech Tree BB line (sort of like how Incomparable is different for the British BB's).  Sicilia would be closer as it is basically a buffed Colombo but it has SAP secondary guns and has HE from the main guns which is the reverse of the tech tree ships. Lauria is Steel and Sicilia is RB pts. Expensive ships that aren't ideal trainers for the Tech Tree BB Captains.

Napoli is a very good ship but it is not an ideal trainer for the Tech Tree Cruiser line as Napoli is a secondary build brawler. Ideally you use a high pt Captain from either a BB or DD and only use it on Napoli vs using Captains from the Tech Tree Cruisers. The skills don't match up. Napoli is definitely a ship you want but again it is not ideal as a Captain trainer for the Cruisers because of the skill mismatch.

Marco Polo is probably the best option of the ships you mention for an ITL BB Captain trainer. It has SAP and AP like the Tech Tree BB's and like them you won't want to build for secondaries so skills wise what goes on it would also go on the Tech Tree ships. It also plays basically the same other than it has 406MM guns vs the 381MM guns T7+ for the Tech Tree BB's. 

So, I would go for Marco Polo, purchased with COAL ONLY NOT STEEL, or cash in the Premium shop, if you are looking for a ship to train ITL Tech Tree BB Captains on. It's the best fit.

JMHO.

A ship's price in resource should not be a deterrent in picking it. Both Sicilia and Lauria are very good ships, although I agree that Sicilia is not great for captain training. 

I can't understand how you can unironically recommend Marco Polo of all ships while dismissing Lauria as overrated and too different. Lauria is so much better than Marco Polo tier for tier that it's not even funny. They share the exact same idea: Big guns that fire SAP at the cost of smoke, and Marco Polo's guns aren't even that good because of her abysmal reload, average caliber, and middling accuracy. I can't see how one is incompatible with the rest of the tech tree while the other isn't. 

 

 

 

[ArIskandir]

15 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Napoli requires lots of captain points to be good to play with and the build is different to normal ITA cruisers as well.

 

15 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Napoli as I have mentioned, is balanced around a high level build.

I understand you need a high level Captain in order to make full use of Napoli secondaries, but the ship is workable just with the stock battery. For a regular Joe, the secondaries are a noob trap anyway, what really defines Napoli is its tankiness, with 10-13pts you get the basic survivability build covered. That's all average Joe needs to play this ship to good effect. 

[Unlooky]

20 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

 

I understand you need a high level Captain in order to make full use of Napoli secondaries, but the ship is workable just with the stock battery. For a regular Joe, the secondaries are a noob trap anyway, what really defines Napoli is its tankiness, with 10-13pts you get the basic survivability build covered. That's all average Joe needs to play this ship to good effect. 

Not really. Napoli's main battery is below average in nearly every respect and trying to play her like a regular cruiser is just playing a worse Petropavlovsk. The secondaries are what make Napoli fun to play. Her survivability is honestly more important for competitive than for random battles. 

I'd argue that it's the opposite with regards to her secondaries being a noob trap- they're exceptionally good and allow Napoli to win 1v1s against nearly any cruiser and basically force DDs to play extremely cautiously. Meanwhile her main battery can be generously described as "lackluster." 

[AdmiralThunder]

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

A ship's price in resource should not be a deterrent in picking it. Both Sicilia and Lauria are very good ships, although I agree that Sicilia is not great for captain training. 

I can't understand how you can unironically recommend Marco Polo of all ships while dismissing Lauria as overrated and too different. Lauria is so much better than Marco Polo tier for tier that it's not even funny. They share the exact same idea: Big guns that fire SAP at the cost of smoke, and Marco Polo's guns aren't even that good because of her abysmal reload, average caliber, and middling accuracy. I can't see how one is incompatible with the rest of the tech tree while the other isn't. 

 

 

 

A ship's price in resources is very relevant. If a ship is subpar or even average, and it is sold for a hard to get resource like Steel or even worse RB pts, than the cost is 100% relevant. It takes a LONG time for most players to amass those resources in sufficient quantities to get a ship so using them on a subpar or average ship vs waiting for a good one is not a wise move.

I have Lauria (got it on release with the Steel camo) and find it overrated. I am actually disappointed in it and don't play it much. It isn't horrible but it wasn't worth Steel. It is more like Incomparable for the Brits as well than it is an ITL BB in play and also how it relates to the line. I don't have Sicilia even though I could. It is a buffed Colombo with HE + SAP secondaries and a better reload. Not worth RB pts to me plus it is different enough from the tech tree ones to require a different build. Neither ship to me is worth the resource they are sold for. 

Coal on the other hand is way easier to obtain and thus using it on a subpar or average ship is not as big of a negative. MP may not be great but for Coal it isn't a horrible value. It's a "decent" ship as far as ITL BB's go. I got it out of a crate (Santa I believe) in full disclosure and wouldn't have bought it outright even for Coal. 

How can I recommend MP over the others? Because OP asked about a high tier Italian Captain trainer. The ships OP asked about were mainly BB's so I assume OP means for BB's. MP is overall the closest to the tech tree BB's of the ones OP asked about. It trades smoke for a bit more overmatch but otherwise it is classic ITL BB (SAP + AP, somewhat decent armor as long as you protect the sides, crap secondaries, crap AA, etc...). MP will play like the tech tree one whereas Lauria and Sicilia play a bit different.

If OP wants a Premium ITL BB to train his/her Captains for high tier ITL tech tree BB's MP makes more sense than either Lauria or Sicilia. Also, MP is a T9 Premium so it will earn better along the way which is another +.

I took the time to actually read what OP asked and tailored my answer to their question. 

Edited June 6 by AdmiralThunder

[mashed68]

Napoli needs 13-14 points to work. After that its all gravy. 

[Unlooky]

20 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

A ship's price in resources is very relevant. If a ship is subpar or even average, and it is sold for a hard to get resource like Steel or even worse RB pts, than the cost is 100% relevant. It takes a LONG time for most players to amass those resources in sufficient quantities to get a ship so using them on a subpar or average ship vs waiting for a good one is not a wise move.

OP made it clear that cost was not the issue here. You are additionally acting like either of the ships mentioned are going to be solely used for Captain training. They are not. Realistically any one of the ships mentioned here can function as a captain trainer (although some are not as good as others as I've already argued in my previous posts), so now it becomes a matter of which is the best ship to buy.

20 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I have Lauria (got it on release with the Steel camo) and find it overrated. I am actually disappointed in it and don't play it much. It isn't horrible but it wasn't worth Steel. It is more like Incomparable for the Brits as well than it is an ITL BB in play and also how it relates to the line. I don't have Sicilia even though I could. It is a buffed Colombo with HE + SAP secondaries and a better reload. Not worth RB pts to me plus it is different enough from the tech tree ones to require a different build. Neither ship to me is worth the resource they are sold for. 

Lauria is quite arguably THE strongest steel BB right now. I don't see how she plays any differently from the regular Italian Battleships in a way that Marco Polo does not. Perhaps Lauria is less powerful in Co Op where everyone just runs straight in and things like concealment, overmatch, and speed are irrelevant, but I assure you that is not the case for Random Battles. Similarly Marco Polo's drawbacks are even more glaring when you're playing against real players who actually know how to use the A and D keys, and missing a 36 reload salvo is painful. 

20 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

How can I recommend MP over the others? Because OP asked about a high tier Italian Captain trainer. The ships OP asked about were mainly BB's so I assume OP means for BB's. MP is overall the closest to the tech tree BB's of the ones OP asked about. It trades smoke for a bit more overmatch but otherwise it is classic ITL BB (SAP + AP, somewhat decent armor as long as you protect the sides, crap secondaries, crap AA, etc...). MP will play like the tech tree one whereas Lauria and Sicilia play a bit different.

Again, I will ask this question. How does Lauria play "so differently from tech tree Italian BBs" and Marco Polo does not? They share the exact same idea (Italian BB with few guns but large caliber SAP and no smoke) except one of the ships is actually good, and the other is one of the least played ships at tier 9 (https://tomato.gg/wows/ship-stats/NA/recent?sort=&direction=) despite being available for purchase for coal, a cheap resource, and having been sold for years now. 

Everything you describe here applies to Lauria as well. 

20 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

 

I took the time to actually read what OP asked and tailored my answer to their question. 

Thanks for the implication that I didn't, when there are far more egregious examples of people not reading in this very thread.   

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6 by Unlooky

[ArIskandir]

50 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Not really. Napoli's main battery is below average in nearly every respect and trying to play her like a regular cruiser is just playing a worse Petropavlovsk. The secondaries are what make Napoli fun to play. Her survivability is honestly more important for competitive than for random battles. 

Napoli is a brawler, with or without the buffed secondaries you'll win most cruiser 1 vs 1 all the same based on your tankiness, torps, punchy AP and even the stock secondaries are far better than other Cruiser's. Buffing secondaries is useful but not critical unless you go against very good players, there they can make the difference and provide the extra 'omph'. Against regular Random Joe it's a bit of a meme thing. 

50 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

I'd argue that it's the opposite with regards to her secondaries being a noob trap- they're exceptionally good and allow Napoli to win 1v1s against nearly any cruiser and basically force DDs to play extremely cautiously. Meanwhile her main battery can be generously described as "lackluster." 

uh? In what World isn't having secondaries a noob trap? ... I get if you are not very good, having automated damage is a plus as it will do the work for you. But give 'secondaries' to a common guy and all he will think is "I has secondary dakka... must charge for pew pew"... secondaries might be useful but they are worth nothing if you get broadsided on your way to glory. It's a noob trap.

Edited June 6 by ArIskandir

[Unlooky]

3 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Napoli is a brawler, with or without the buffed secondaries you'll win most cruiser 1 vs 1 all the same based on your tankiness, torps, punchy AP and even the stock secondaries are far better than other Cruiser's. Buffing secondaries is useful but not critical unless you go against very good players, there they can make the difference and provide the extra 'omph'. Against regular Random Joe it's a bit of a meme thing. 

Without the enhanced range your secondaries will not outreach your concealment. Range is one of the most important statistics for secondaries. If I had a 13 point build on something like a Moskva, Salem, or Des Moines, I'd gladly take the 1v1 against a Napoli with a 13 point build. Your AP is not improved in any way. The main battery DPM is abysmal and so is the performance against non broadside targets. 

6 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

uh? In what World isn't having secondaries a noob trap? ... I get if you are not very good, having automated damage is a plus as it will do the work for you. But give 'secondaries' to a common guy and all he will think is "I has secondary dakka... must charge for pew pew"... secondaries might be useful but they are worth nothing if you get broadsided on your way to glory. It's a noob trap.

On secondary cruisers that have excellent concealment and speed that allow them to utilize their secondaries while guaranteeing a matchup against another cruiser, and not battleship. 

Napoli has better concealment than secondary range with the optimal build. Their extremely effective hitting DPM also makes up in spades for where your main battery lacks. Without them Napoli's damage output is simply pathetic. It's really not that hard to not go full German BBaby monkey mode when you have good secondaries on a ship. 

If you aren't going to play Napoli with a secondary build, grind either Castilla or Petropavlovsk. 

If I bought Napoli with only a 10 point commander because someone recommended me it as a captain trainer, I'd probably use the ship for the trade in right now for an actual Italian captain trainer. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

Hmm

I always take SI over AR because I value having more HP to "spend" over the DPM increase. Then again, I would immediately take AR after or just flat out spend some CXP to increase to 13 points.

Napoli as I have mentioned, is balanced around a high level build. This is why I did not recommend it in this thread. OP is specifically looking for a captain trainer, implying he does not have a high level captain. 

We seem to be having a "failure to communicate"?

[Wolfswetpaws]

24 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

...
uh? In what World isn't having secondaries a noob trap? ... I get if you are not very good, having automated damage is a plus as it will do the work for you. But give 'secondaries' to a common guy and all he will think is "I has secondary dakka... must charge for pew pew"... secondaries might be useful but they are worth nothing if you get broadsided on your way to glory. It's a noob trap.

😉 

Quote

Gomez : [to his family]  They say a man who represents himself has a fool for a client. Well, with God as my witness, I am that fool!

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101272/characters/nm0000471

Advice from Gomez Addams

 
 

[AdmiralThunder]

Dude chill the heck out. What crawled up your butt? I am going to answer you one more time and that is it. This is not worth a fight and multiple responses. 

40 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

OP made it clear that cost was not the issue here. You are additionally acting like either of the ships mentioned are going to be solely used for Captain training. They are not. Realistically any one of the ships mentioned here can function as a captain trainer (although some are not as good as others as I've already argued in my previous posts), so now it becomes a matter of which is the best ship to buy.

OP was also willing, apparently, to convert Steel to Coal. OP clearly does not place accurate value on resources. My response was A) to try and get them to use resources wisely and B) also inform others who read my post who may not know.

OP specifically asked about getting the ship for training. The thread title is "Italian High Tier Trainer". I was responding on topic and not assuming things OP did not ask about (other than assuming they want a BB trainer as most ships they gave were BB). Also, I qualified my response to OP by discussing each of the ships they mentioned and then why MP made the most sense of those ships. MP is in fact the best choice, of the ships OP gave, to train high tier ITL BB Captains on. It just is as it is closest in play to the tech tree ITL BB's.  

The best ship to buy is which one of those OP asked about that best meets what OP said they wanted it for (high tier ITL trainer and I assumed they meant BB's based on the ships asked about - if not then my response would need to be edited/changed)). That is MP.

40 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Lauria is quite arguably THE strongest steel BB right now. I don't see how she plays any differently from the regular Italian Battleships in a way that Marco Polo does not. Perhaps Lauria is less powerful in Co Op where everyone just runs straight in and things like concealment, overmatch, and speed are irrelevant, but I assure you that is not the case for Random Battles. Similarly Marco Polo's drawbacks are even more glaring when you're playing against real players who actually know how to use the A and D keys, and missing a 36 reload salvo is painful.

You can feel Lauria is the strongest Steel BB if you want (I would put it 4th just ahead of Shikishima of the 5 available - note I have all of them). That is an opinion and you are absolutely entitled to have it. For the record I never said it was bad. I said I find it overrated and I am disappointed in the purchase. That is my opinion which I also am entitled to. 

Ah yes I am a Co-op player who doesn't know anything about the game. Man I keep forgetting that. Funny how back on NA it was always you only have a couple hundred games in Randoms and a 41% WR so you don't know anything about PVP - shut up. Now with almost 1800 Random battles (up to and including T10) and a 57.5% WR (58.83% in just BB's and my WR%'s are 100% solo play no divs) I am still being told I don't know anything and to basically shut up. You people are funny. Co-op is different yes (when have I ever said otherwise) but it shows what a ship is capable of. I also have enough Random games at T8-T10 to know how you play there as well and can take my experience with a ship in Co-op and be able to translate it to PVP and how to best use it there. I have a brain and can use it.

What are you running in slot 6 for MP? With MBM3 reload is 31.7 sec.  

40 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Again, I will ask this question. How does Lauria play "so differently from tech tree Italian BBs" and Marco Polo does not? They share the exact same idea (Italian BB with few guns but large caliber SAP and no smoke) except one of the ships is actually good, and the other is one of the least played ships at tier 9 (https://tomato.gg/wows/ship-stats/NA/recent?sort=&direction=) despite being available for purchase for coal, a cheap resource, and having been sold for years now. 

Everything you describe here applies to Lauria as well. 

Lauria is like Incomparable in that it plays as a BC not a traditional BB as it has suspect armor (big citadel but better than Incomp plating wise I know), a low HP pool, its fast, has good concealment (not as good as Incomp obviously) and big guns that go boom. You play it more as a flanker not a tank. It doesn't hold up well to focus fire. So you use the speed and concealment to get into position to punish broadsides then go dark and reposition. Just like Incomparable. It is not classic ITL BB play which MP would have (again my point seeing as OP asked about a trainer). You could even say Lauria plays similar to Bourgogne other than the guns on it are big vs small on the French BB.

MP is much tankier than Lauria. MP would play more as a classic ITL high tier tech tree ITL BB. Lauria has a different playstyle as I already mentioned. For like the millionth time OP asked about a trainer. MP makes a better trainer than Lauria as it is closer to what the tech tree BB's are. Lauria is a fast flanker that uses its speed and concealment to punish broadsides of unaware ships. MP is more the classic tank BB. I am not sure what you have issue with here? Seems more like you are offended I said Lauria isn't amazing than anything else. 

40 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Thanks for the implication that I didn't, when there are far more egregious examples of people not reading in this very thread. 

Wow. Assume much? I said "I took the time to actually read what OP asked and tailored my answer to their question". That means exactly what it says and nothing more. Don't put words in my mouth. It is explaining why I answered as I did and nothing more.

I am done with this. Please move on.

Edited June 6 by AdmiralThunder

[Admiral_Karasu]

Let's put the kettle on and have a nice cup of warm calming tea, mates.

 

[ArIskandir]

53 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

If I had a 13 point build on something like a Moskva, Salem, or Des Moines, I'd gladly take the 1v1 against a Napoli with a 13 point build. Your AP is not improved in any way. The main battery DPM is abysmal and so is the performance against non broadside targets. 

Enters awesome Concealment to surprise people broadside. If you get close, they die, as simple as that... can you get close? take the fight... can't get close? don't take the fight... the extra secondary range just opens up a wider window. 

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

If you aren't going to play Napoli with a secondary build, grind either Castilla or Petropavlovsk. 

The point discussed is an Italian high tier trainer... what are the other options?  Any BB is not workable without a base 14pt, with 18pt being the functional standard (3 x 4pt skills). Any other option is more skill intensive than Napoli. 

[clammboy]

[Unlooky]

2 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Lauria is like Incomparable in that it plays as a BC not a traditional BB as it has suspect armor (big citadel but better than Incomp plating wise I know), a low HP pool, its fast, has good concealment (not as good as Incomp obviously) and big guns that go boom. You play it more as a flanker not a tank. It doesn't hold up well to focus fire. So you use the speed and concealment to get into position to punish broadsides then go dark and reposition. Just like Incomparable. It is not classic ITL BB play which MP would have (again my point seeing as OP asked about a trainer). You could even say Lauria plays similar to Bourgogne other than the guns on it are big vs small on the French BB.

MP is much tankier than Lauria. MP would play more as a classic ITL high tier tech tree ITL BB. Lauria has a different playstyle as I already mentioned. For like the millionth time OP asked about a trainer. MP makes a better trainer than Lauria as it is closer to what the tech tree BB's are. Lauria is a fast flanker that uses its speed and concealment to punish broadsides of unaware ships. MP is more the classic tank BB. I am not sure what you have issue with here? Seems more like you are offended I said Lauria isn't amazing than anything else. 

I disagree with everything you've said about Lauria's playstyle but since you have clearly expressed no desire to continue discussing the topic I will say this:
Even if Lauria's playstyle is different from tech tree Italian BBs, is her build that different? On the build document, the only difference is taking Brisk instead of Grease the Gears, which is an excellent skill and I take this anyways. 

2 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Ah yes I am a Co-op player who doesn't know anything about the game. Man I keep forgetting that. Funny how back on NA it was always you only have a couple hundred games in Randoms and a 41% WR so you don't know anything about PVP - shut up. Now with almost 1800 Random battles (up to and including T10) and a 57.5% WR (58.83% in just BB's and my WR%'s are 100% solo play no divs) I am still being told I don't know anything and to basically shut up. You people are funny. Co-op is different yes (when have I ever said otherwise) but it shows what a ship is capable of. I also have enough Random games at T8-T10 to know how you play there as well and can take my experience with a ship in Co-op and be able to translate it to PVP and how to best use it there. I have a brain and can use it.

I did not mention that because you are a co op main, but because you do not have a single game with Lauria in Random Battles. 

2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

We seem to be having a "failure to communicate"?

?

You asked me a question on how I would build a cruiser with 10 points, and I responded with my reasons.

How is this a failure to communicate? If I wanted to derail this thread into a 6 page long argument on taking AR vs not taking AR I would have certainly continued arguing my point there. Like you said, agree to disagree, not in an unrelated thread. 

 

[BOBTHEBALL]

7 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

If OP wants a Premium ITL BB to train his/her Captains for high tier ITL tech tree BB's MP makes more sense than either Lauria or Sicilia.

No not at all, Marco Polo is quite quite horrible. I tried to make her work so many times but man she's just so aweful. Lauria on the other-hand is great, a BB that requires the player to know what they're doing. It can punish all classes extremely hard and rewards good plays. What else could you want from a ship.