Arcus_Aesopi Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Atlanta... Yes! Takes time, especially to hit the little guys with the floaty shells... but... IFHE and Heavy HE you'll shred them when you do hit. Combat orders: Use the Coastal Bombardment, expanded depth charge radius and AA. Shoot the little b*st*rds when available, even if you're missing a ton and be the guy that shoots down 75-100 of the planes... really. Drive directly THROUGH the minefields dropping depth charges and you'll eliminate the whole minefield after 2-3 drops... let the depth charges explode before you initiate another set since they'll blow up more than you expect. Atlanta is really skinny and careful driving will help... Torpedo boats fire straight forward! If you see one turn toward you... dodge. Find your perfect firing distance, but be aware that you won't be dodging if you're within a couple K's. Watch for their turn in. Your movement speed appears to be nerfed, so play like a bb that can turn... That's what I've learned so far... your role is clear minefields and murder planes.... try to pick off 4-5 of the torpedo boats and dd's and you'll have a good return IF the rest of the team is mildly competent. Take the recommended Atlanta but go with turning speed instead of acceleration. Usually 1-3 stars in pickup groups. Had ONE 5 star the whole day yesterday but ALL were "Victories"... meet the primary objectives and just pray for stars. High bxp was 1900+, lowest 800... average 1200-1500. Earnings are blue bonus worthy. Fair winds and following seas. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yedwy Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 26 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: Secondaries, hmm.. is there any kind of a mini Massachusetts in the game? Well WV 44 and Agincourt come to mind… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 6 minutes ago, Yedwy said: Well WV 44 and Agincourt come to mind… Sadly, I'm missing those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said: I see... so it's like a 'learn fast or sink fast' type of scenario then? Sort of.... It's more like "do I want to uninstall?" or "suffer yet another third world effort..." Five matches where we were seriously trying to "come to grips with" this mode; and, consensus: 5 to 1 = PASS.... Non-value-added. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 20 minutes ago, Arcus_Aesopi said: Atlanta... Yes! Takes time, especially to hit the little guys with the floaty shells... but... IFHE and Heavy HE you'll shred them when you do hit. Combat orders: Use the Coastal Bombardment, expanded depth charge radius and AA. Shoot the little b*st*rds when available, even if you're missing a ton and be the guy that shoots down 75-100 of the planes... really. Drive directly THROUGH the minefields dropping depth charges and you'll eliminate the whole minefield after 2-3 drops... let the depth charges explode before you initiate another set since they'll blow up more than you expect. Atlanta is really skinny and careful driving will help... Torpedo boats fire straight forward! If you see one turn toward you... dodge. Find your perfect firing distance, but be aware that you won't be dodging if you're within a couple K's. Watch for their turn in. Your movement speed appears to be nerfed, so play like a bb that can turn... That's what I've learned so far... your role is clear minefields and murder planes.... try to pick off 4-5 of the torpedo boats and dd's and you'll have a good return IF the rest of the team is mildly competent. Take the recommended Atlanta but go with turning speed instead of acceleration. Usually 1-3 stars in pickup groups. Had ONE 5 star the whole day yesterday but ALL were "Victories"... meet the primary objectives and just pray for stars. High bxp was 1900+, lowest 800... average 1200-1500. Earnings are blue bonus worthy. Fair winds and following seas. LOL Take ship only available for money...then totally respec it just for this limited time OP (with money), so you can win. Got to love pay2win mechanics... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcus_Aesopi Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 minute ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: LOL Take ship only available for money...then totally respec it just for this limited time OP (with money), so you can win. Got to love pay2win mechanics... HEY! I paid for this sh*t, so quit your whining! I got Atlanta fair and square in a Santa Crate... for... um... well... maybe a lot of money... 🙂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 53 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: What about folks who don't have Atlanta? The Flint is available for coal, if I recall correctly? Having a ship equipped with torpedoes isn't a strict requirement. So any of the allowed tech-tree "Allied" ships will be okay, I guess. If the ship in question has a repair-party consumable, then that won't hurt. Not strictly necessary, but nice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Just now, Wolfswetpaws said: The Flint is available for coal, if I recall correctly? Having a ship equipped with torpedoes isn't a strict requirement. So any of the allowed tech-tree "Allied" ships will be okay, I guess. If the ship in question has a repair-party consumable, then that won't hurt. Not strictly necessary, but nice. Radar has been mentioned a lot in why Atlanta was a good ship to bring... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Just now, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: Radar has been mentioned a lot in why Atlanta was a good ship to bring... Sure, having radar can be nice during certain moments to light-up schnellboats and destroyers inside smokescreens. But, I played last night with the Oklahoma and the West Virginia '44, and didn't lose sleep over not having radar. My secondary-battery-gun builds sank more schnellboats than my main-guns did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArIskandir Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) 11 hours ago, Asym said: Think about this: this is a game of a movement to contact. And yet, this mode of D-Day is clearing mine fields (at 1 knot)? Getting shot from every direction and it actually becomes almost asymmetrical If You think about it Asym, it is exactly as it is supposed to be traversing a mine field, You get bogged down clearing it while being submitted to preplaned artillery barrages and CrossFire. The whole Operation actually makes sense: 1. Clear the minefield 2. Suppress AA to enable Air Support 3. Suppress Shore defenses 4. Escort Landing forces Check here if You need a summary of the Operation Edited May 31 by ArIskandir 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcus_Aesopi Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 25 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: Radar has been mentioned a lot in why Atlanta was a good ship to bring... Especially helpful in the first spawn where the torpedo boats on both sides start by smoking... avoid the early damage by lighting them up for everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 minutes ago, ArIskandir said: The whole Operation actually makes sense: It does once you run it a few times, but I posted about round 3 of testing for this particular op, and the flaws are still the same. A quick summary: - The objectives are simple, but no one actually wants to do them, because they aren't fun, and award next to no XP. - Building on the previous flaw, farming enemy ship damage is the most effective XP gainer, even to the detriment of gaining additional stars. I have had multiple occasions where I could easily sacrifice an unfun/low reward objective, cost a star, and it not matter because I scored enough damage to negate the star loss for me. (this is toxic) Sacrificing a star in regular ops isn't nearly this viable. - Intelligence Documents. Just scrap them. They make balancing anything impossible (current PTS is a perfect example. Atlantic Wall was borderline unplayable last week. Now it's a complete joke that I have 5 starred 6 times in a row with 200k damage.). It is artificial unfun bloat to make you grind and think you're getting something good (you aren't). They literally just make the op more playable. - Random spawns. As far as I can tell, each enemy group has 2 or 3 random spawnpoints. Personally I hate this, but some actually like them, so this is just a personal gripe more than anything. By these powers combined, you have the beautiful disaster that is this series of ops. It could be so much better, but they've dug their heels into a flawed XP system, Intel documents, and mines that usually only leads to frustration unless you simply farm damage. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruzenstern Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Best BB I found for this op was Renown '44. Compared to WV '44, it has slightly weaker secondaries (on paper, my actual results were very similar), much better main battery reload and dispersion (more than offsetting the 6 vs 8 guns), and most importantly much higher speed. I used both a few times and had more impact in the Renown. Cruisers rule though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin_Simpleton Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 I had a battle with two WV 44 and four Atlanta cruisers. We got four stars. I should have done a J-turn to the north to take out the last shore guns and the aerodrome instead of taking the J-turn to the east along with the other BB. The north LSTs didn't make it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project45_Opytny Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 hour ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said: Atlanta is a fantastic pick. But Eendrach is better. The airstrike kills the airfield in a single drop. The guns are accurate and have flat arcs which make killing s-boots quite easy (especially compared to Atlanta). The HE is effective against the airfield and the AA as well. And the AP is as good as Atlanta against the gun emplacements. I played 15 games so far, all wins. Asia server. It's obvious most players are inept and clueless, so you got to take charge and focus the PRIMARY objectives first. Spot the AA, and kill the 4 emplacements. This triggers the spotter planes that sweep in from behind - revealing the gun casements and the airfields. Kill all of those. Killing the airfields stops the air attacks on our ships. Killing the gun casemates stops them from killing the LST's that get past the final red not spawns and the minefield drops that come in from off map. The minefields need to be cleared and at least 3 LST's from both flanks need to reach the beach if you hope to get 5 stars. But you do not need any to survive at all to win the operation. All you must do is the PRIMARY objective which is supress/kill the gun emplacements and the AA. The entire op is easy when you focus on the objectives and take a ship suitable for everything. Ship based depth charges is a MUST. It's too bad the community demanded plane based asw on all the cruisers. At least we have 3 viable cruiser picks. Eendracht, Flint and Atlanta. I don't rate BB's at all. But you can make do with a BB if you focus on the primary objectives. I've been working with Kijkduin (I have Eendracht, yet I think Kijkduin is relatively more viable in PvP tier wise and I may make some progress in training a dedicated Kijkduin commander during the process) tonight and even she works too, and is arguably a better experience regarding shooting all the E-boats and destroyers with main guns. Players seems to be better today than yesterday, though occasionally there are still... guys that are unaware of the fact that there is only a few meta picks and differences between them and others are in effect all or nothing. I've seen hapless Emile Bertin, Iron Duke, Emerald, Fiji, Marblehead, New Mexico as well as rental [La Galissoniere]... that ruined everyone's experience. Thankfully I've already have the rewards done. Another aspect besides the aforementioned "short list" is that itbis claimed that the mission tasks and rewards are horribly mismatched regarding XP and credits earning. I may have tries on Dido and Perth had I haven't finished the Utah Beach reward track (all sercet files and Commandant Jaujard). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project45_Opytny Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Also, while I am not aware how it is achieved in game, the counter-intuitive performance of battleship AP on coastal battery casemates maybe in fact historical (though the reason was that destroyers can come much closer to enemy coastal batteries and fire much more accurately IRL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 57 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said: Also, while I am not aware how it is achieved in game, the counter-intuitive performance of battleship AP on coastal battery casemates maybe in fact historical (though the reason was that destroyers can come much closer to enemy coastal batteries and fire much more accurately IRL). That's an interesting point. In other operations, AP is the shell of choice. Historically speaking, the Germans had this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Röchling_shell But what did the Allies have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArIskandir Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) 1 hour ago, SolitudeFreak said: - The objectives are simple, but no one actually wants to do them, because they aren't fun, and award next to no XP. - Building on the previous flaw, farming enemy ship damage is the most effective XP gainer, even to the detriment of gaining additional stars. I have had multiple occasions where I could easily sacrifice an unfun/low reward objective, cost a star, and it not matter because I scored enough damage to negate the star loss for me. (this is toxic) Sacrificing a star in regular ops isn't nearly this viable. I understand your point here but I don't see it as a problem, it is a player choice. Some players will prefer to focus on farming, some other players will prefer to focus on the narrative elements. Devs could 'strongarm' players into strictly following the narrative, but I actually agree a greater degree of freedom is better to fit many different type of players. The Scenario is more of a blank canvas with some impressed guidelines which you could follow or ignore and paint over whatever you like most. 1 hour ago, SolitudeFreak said: - Intelligence Documents. Just scrap them. They make balancing anything impossible (current PTS is a perfect example. Atlantic Wall was borderline unplayable last week. Now it's a complete joke that I have 5 starred 6 times in a row with 200k damage.). It is artificial unfun bloat to make you grind and think you're getting something good (you aren't). They literally just make the op more playable. I think important first to understand this is a Scenario event meant for the short term, its 'life cycle' may be as short as a weekend. Going through the 'experience' is more important than how 'balanced' it is. This is not meant to achieve long term replayability but the one time deep 'emotional' impression of a structured narrative arc. In that context the incremental bonuses (Intel Docs) help achieve 'Progression' through the narrative arc. You may have forgotten because you were involved in testing, but the first time you play this Ops it delivers a vivid 'shock and awe' effect on the player, there's so many things going on at the same time... you get stuck on a minefield, planes attack you from above, E-boats roaming on your flanks, artillery fire from the shore, there's smoke and confusion all around. It is a very cinematic experience and reminded me of the vibe you get from the beach scene from "Saving Private Ryan', I think that's what the Devs intended to achieve. Your vanilla experience is designed to be overwhelming and the 'narrative arc' for the player experience is to overcome that intial shock and to master the challenge of storming the beach. The usual player progression path involves gaining knowledge through repetition and experience until you get to 'know the way' to beat the Scenario. Given the short lifespan of this Event, which for some players could be as short as a weekend, the learning curve might look quite steep, particularly for 'slow learning' players. You need to go from 'fodder' to 'hero' in a handful of matches, the Bonus Cards act as a way of making the Challenge incrementally easier... you are not only gaining experience with each repetition but also making the Scenario easier. That's a way to guarantee almost every player will achieve 'hero' level and experience the full narrative of the Scenario, regardless of how fast you can learn or your basic skill level. 1 hour ago, SolitudeFreak said: - Random spawns. As far as I can tell, each enemy group has 2 or 3 random spawnpoints. Personally I hate this, but some actually like them, so this is just a personal gripe more than anything. I didn't notice any significant variation on the spawn points, even if the precise location varies, the attack vector remains similar. But even if there were some significant variations, I don't consider it a negative. Imo, Raptor Rescue was greatly improved by the randomized attack vectors. Edited May 31 by ArIskandir 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 minutes ago, ArIskandir said: Some players will prefer to focus on farming, some other players will prefer to focus on the narrative elements. Both of these things should have a fair shot of reflecting equally on the scoreboard. Yes, scenarios are the closest thing to a 'campaign' this game has, but reflecting a contribution disproportionately low because it simply wasn't the 'right' contribution is just bad feedback to the player, especially in a game where the score has an effect on your progression - Credits and XP types - which affect critical aspects of the game. 7 minutes ago, ArIskandir said: I think important first to understand this is a Scenario event meant for the short term, it's 'life cycle' may be as short as a weekend. If this really is the case, I would feel better about it, but the cynical side of me thinks this is a test bed for more permanent mechanics in other aspects of the game. The when and how only they know, but I'm really getting the feeling something bigger is being pushed on us with this event. Especially the mines. 10 minutes ago, ArIskandir said: I didn't notice any significant variation on the spawn points, even if the precise location varies, the attack vector remains similar. But even if there were some significant variations, I don't consider it a negative. Imo, Raptor Rescue was greatly improved by the randomized attack vectors. That's fair. Like I said, some enjoy the variations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArIskandir Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said: though the reason was that destroyers can come much closer to enemy coastal batteries and fire much more accurately IRL There was also the cost/benefit balance to account for. It was far cheaper to account for the barrel wear of a DD caliber gun than a BB caliber gun. There was also the risk involved, it was far cheaper to account for the loss of a DD than a BB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermore135 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 3 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: If this really is the case, I would feel better about it, but the cynical side of me thinks this is a test bed for more permanent mechanics in other aspects of the game. The when and how only they know, but I'm really getting the feeling something bigger is being pushed on us with this event. Especially the mines. The devs are desperately trying to justify all the time and resources that have gone into the development of mines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArIskandir Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 6 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: Both of these things should have a fair shot of reflecting equally on the scoreboard. Yes, scenarios are the closest thing to a 'campaign' this game has, but reflecting a contribution disproportionately low because it simply wasn't the 'right' contribution is just bad feedback to the player, especially in a game where the score has an effect on your progression - Credits and XP types - which affect critical aspects of the game. I agree a more even result would be desirable. Tbh I didn't pay any attention to the score results so I at this moment I don't have an opinion formed on how deep runs the discrepancy on results. My gut feeling at this point is you are able to pursue both objectives (score+narrative) simultaneously if that's what you aim for. 11 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: If this really is the case, I would feel better about it, but the cynical side of me thinks this is a test bed for more permanent mechanics in other aspects of the game. The when and how only they know, but I'm really getting the feeling something bigger is being pushed on us with this event. Especially the mines. Of course it is a test bed for things to come, events always are. But that doesn't mean this particular Scenario not being a self-contained short term event. But don't sweat it too much, there's a lot of stuff they test that never see the light... I had big hopes for the 'key battle' mode and nothing came out of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Sure, having radar can be nice during certain moments to light-up schnellboats and destroyers inside smokescreens. But, I played last night with the Oklahoma and the West Virginia '44, and didn't lose sleep over not having radar. My secondary-battery-gun builds sank more schnellboats than my main-guns did. Oh look, more premiums. 2 hours ago, Kruzenstern said: Best BB I found for this op was Renown '44. Compared to WV '44, it has slightly weaker secondaries (on paper, my actual results were very similar), much better main battery reload and dispersion (more than offsetting the 6 vs 8 guns), and most importantly much higher speed. I used both a few times and had more impact in the Renown. Cruisers rule though. Oh look, even more premiums. It's a pay2win event. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 7 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: It's a pay2win event. Oklahoma (Coal containers T5) is free. WV '44 is less effective than many high DPM cruisers, which are also free. Like Eendracht (Tech tree T7), which is allegedly one of the most effective ships available. As effective as Atlanta (my go to pick) is, Flint (Coal T7) can be just as effective being nearly identical. I'll be the first to tell you this event has problems, but pay2win isn't really one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 24 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: Oh look, more premiums. Oh look, even more premiums. It's a pay2win event. Sail your Bretagne, then. That's what I did on the PTS weeks ago. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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