Unsportsmanship conduct by DDs en-masse in Brawl due to Dockyard mission requirements... :-(

[SeaQuest]

1 minute ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Shirley, you jest.  😄 

Don't call me Shirley...🤣

[Justin_Simpleton]

55 minutes ago, SeaQuest said:

Well, most of the missions require you to be playing tier 5 or higher. So maybe this change would also make players want to learn how to win instead of being potatoes. 

Yes, I want to learn how to win a game when I'm spawned on the weak flank against experienced players while my flank mates are potatoes.  WoWs has given me ample opportunities to learn this during the brief few minutes I live to recognize I should have turned and kited 2 minutes ago (sarcasm).  I think the dockyard missions are shaking up some the mindsets of how to play this game by encouraging more bold behavior to initiate the kind of engagements that accentuates the capabilities of the various ships.  There are more ways than one to play this game and win.  

Edited May 25 by Justin_Simpleton
clarification

[SureBridge]

I had a tier 5 ship within a week of starting the game. I was at least 90% potato by weight for at least my first year. This is a hard game to figure out, and we haven't figured out a lot of good ways to help teach new players how to get better. 

WG will keep putting out "weird" missions, and I agree with ArIskandir that the execution of these missions can be done well, or poorly. So what can we do to improve things? Maybe send a message in the "all" channel when we see a Yolo DD and offer advice on how to safely cap? Offer to div with someone? 

I'll kick out an open offer to div with anyone who needs cruiser or DD caps: I can drive a Schlieffeen and be the "star destroyer" that keeps the reds from pushing in until they cap. Need BB Kills? I can play a DD to take the caps and force them to come to you (and try not to kill all of them - shima / gearing maybe?) I should be on for CB's - let me know!
 

[Itwastuesday]

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

But wait until you get trapped in a losing streak due to bad team-mates, and then if you are not the sort to go to co-op, you will be saying the same thing about that.

Doesn't happen that much. And getting 'spotting damage' or somesuch is also impossible with the sub-40% squadron so it's never better.

[3LUE]

16 minutes ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

Yes, I want to learn how to win a game when I'm spawned on the weak flank against experienced players while my flank mates are potatoes.  WoWs has given me ample opportunities to learn this during the brief few minutes I live to recognize I should have turned and kited 2 minutes ago (sarcasm).  I think the dockyard missions are shaking up some the mindsets of how to play this game by encouraging more bold behavior to initiate the kind of engagements that accentuates the capabilities of the various ships.  The more ways than one to play this game and win.  

 

12 minutes ago, SureBridge said:

I had a tier 5 ship within a week of starting the game. I was at least 90% potato by weight for at least my first year. This is a hard game to figure out, and we haven't figured out a lot of good ways to help teach new players how to get better. 

WG will keep putting out "weird" missions, and I agree with ArIskandir that the execution of these missions can be done well, or poorly. So what can we do to improve things? Maybe send a message in the "all" channel when we see a Yolo DD and offer advice on how to safely cap? Offer to div with someone? 

I'll kick out an open offer to div with anyone who needs cruiser or DD caps: I can drive a Schlieffeen and be the "star destroyer" that keeps the reds from pushing in until they cap. Need BB Kills? I can play a DD to take the caps and force them to come to you (and try not to kill all of them - shima / gearing maybe?) I should be on for CB's - let me know!
 

Anything that makes players play better or forces them to learn can not be all bad. Something has to be done. Due to high-tier horrid player gamplay, good players are leaving in droves or are simply not playing anything but clan battles and KoTs. 

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, SeaQuest said:

There is a simple way to fix this. All missions require you to be on the winning team for the mission requirement to count. This would affect all modes and battle types. 

Yes. Except WArgambling will never do that, coz they know that they are full of it and also that we know it.

The current pressW "meta" is their dream come true. EVERYTHING theyve done in the past  three years was aimed for this. They are completely unwilling and also wholly incapable of creating and balancing a fair game. Their whole "business" model is predicated on the toss of a coin, lmao...

Edited May 25 by Andrewbassg

[SureBridge]

35 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Doesn't happen that much. And getting 'spotting damage' or somesuch is also impossible with the sub-40% squadron so it's never better.

Easy solution to spotting damage is to take 2 (cruiser) div mates into co-op while you drive a DD (US DDD's are best for this because of long smoke. Drop a smoke trail halfway to the cap for your div mates to hide in, then spot (but don't shoot) the ships in "your" cap. 30-50k spotting damage in 5-7 minutes, wash rinse repeat.

Or play randoms in a div and drive something like a Jager, Shima or (radar) Yueyang. I've cleared 200k spotting damage in a single game with a couple of those ships.

[Justin_Simpleton]

20 minutes ago, 3LUE said:

Anything that makes players play better or forces them to learn can not be all bad. Something has to be done. Due to high-tier horrid player gamplay, good players are leaving in droves or are simply not playing anything but clan battles and KoTs. 

It seems to me the good players want to play the good players for the challenge and bragging rights.  It's hard to tolerate the potato behavior when you are the one who knows better.  So, the good players try to avoid the potatoes and thus a divide occurs where the potatoes don't get the information about 'proper' gameplay and are forced to learn by trial and error never knowing what the proper way of doing things are but discovering what works (sometimes).  

There should be more emphasis placed on teaching how to position yourself at spawn.  I have noticed an improvement in this regard in current videos but, the older videos were universal in describing the ship characteristics during the first couple of minutes of the game but never talking about why they chose to go where they did and how fast, what shells to load, what ships to expect, etc.  Look at the in-game chat msgs., rarely does anybody talk about where they intend to go or what to expect. 

[SureBridge]

1 minute ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

Look at the in-game chat msgs., rarely does anybody talk about where they intend to go or what to expect. 

Well, that's something that I can do, so I'll give it a try.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

When I play high tier BB, I'll often tell my DDs on my flank my general plan at the beginning...

I.e., will support A...but not pushing it.

The best received ones are where I point out that our team is lemming the other way and we will have to kite the flank. I usually phrase it as 'be ready to bug out when it gets hot.'

Usually then I try to be the last one leaving since I want the enemy focused on trying to hit me, not my DD help.

The initial comment seems to help my DD know he doesn't need to make a hopeless play either to keep me alive or 'save' the flank cap.

Biggest early positioning advice I'd love to give to battleship players is to spread out across the battle, and be in position to shoot at things which are spotted. Early game battleships hiding behind rocks is a sure fire way to lose a match.

Edited May 25 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[Aethervox]

3 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Stop letting WG leadership be lazy about game development by letting them claim everything negative is the players fault...as if WG staff were helpless to design things in any better way.

I'm not sure who you are proselytizing to here because it's barely the players fault for any of the negative 'everythings' in WoWS. These negatives are all on WG leadership. WG barely acknowledges anything the players object to. I bring up the following sorry evidence ... in early WoT, WG took an excellent game & made it continually worse over time & in early WoWS, WG has followed exactly the same journey. It's the Fable of the Golden Goose repeated twice over. 😒

[Aethervox]

2 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

coin

This is all WarGambling cares about. As long as the Herring keep feeding 😏

[SureBridge]

there are no brawling herring. it's T10 - only mino's!

[Andrewbassg]

33 minutes ago, Aethervox said:

This is all WarGambling cares about. As long as the Herring keep feeding 😏

Yeah...... and then we have streamers like SLM who celebrate this mindlessness cozplaying as "fun" coz "brawling:. He 9*% plays german babbies, so ofc for him this is fun. But he is clueless about other classes and their balance requirements, yet he thinks that he "knows" and give "opinions"

Don't get me wrong, I quite like the guy, coz he is mild,  but sometimes he says unbelievably dented things about the game ...... 

[IfYouSeeKhaos]

9 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

If You ask me, stupidity. The primary objective is always to  win the Match... All the Dockyard, Campaigns or whatever mission are secondary objectives.   

Granted there is an alternate explanation: inadequacy. I'm so bad that winning matches is beyond My reach and worst of all, I don't Even try. What's left for me to feel acomplishment is to Center on the secondary objectives. But this is really applied stupidity so I classify it under the general stupidity.

You're forgetting the "stats" factor (this thread specifically clarifying "Brawls" in it's title)...

Modes like Brawls & the temp alt modes (like airship) don't keep stats & are places where you can quickly accomplish mission tasks w/out hurting your random/ranked stats (or losing stars).

When some new player that just opened up missions & has a hard time reaching those objectives (or an experienced player that had IRL issues deny him the time to accomplish them in the gated span of time) discovers that there is an easy way to farm them & not have to miss out on those rewards due to lack of skill in attaining them the normal way ends up "winning"*** the reward (w/out any detriment to his in game stats...whatsoever)...is that really "stupid" on his part?

***Generally speaking "the Match" is & should be the main objective...but isn't it also stupid to intentionally missing out on a free reward by ignoring it's win parameters in lieu of winning in each & every game despite being able to easily finish it in the time gate if you just yolo a few games & leave it to your team to maybe be able to pull out the win w/out you?

For us that time gate is a couple/few days so we don't have to dwell on it...but for others it might take all week just to get those barely finished in time due to either lack of skill or time restraints on playing time.

Edited May 25 by IfYouSeeKhaos

[Wulf_Ace]

its sad that they dont understand its better to play one good game then 10 suicide games.

but then again I blame WG for these missions

[Ensign Cthulhu]

13 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

but then again I blame WG for these missions

Instead of blaming the derp suicide players who are actually doing the bad thing.

Okay, then. What do we call it when someone blames someone who isn't doing the bad thing?

[Wulf_Ace]

14 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Instead of blaming the derp suicide players who are actually doing the bad thing.

Okay, then. What do we call it when someone blames someone who isn't doing the bad thing?

design of the missions make people grind them instead of playing them good

[Asym]

7 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Instead of blaming the derp suicide players who are actually doing the bad thing.

Okay, then. What do we call it when someone blames someone who isn't doing the bad thing?

Or, if we were playing a first world quality game, we'd never see event task situations that "compel" players to "do bad things;"  because,  the tasks are Onerous or so Obtuse, a good many players simply can't finish the event tasks by ordinary ways of playing this game....  That is the reality vis-a'-vis hyperbole.

So, if you are compelled, for all sorts of valid reasons, what options do you have?????  None.  There is an event task right now, I can't complete..........'earn an achievement in Randoms or Ranked.'   I have ZERO chance even trying;  and,  'in trying' I could ruin my team mates game outcome.... 

So..........there isn't "equal opportunites".......so, how can you expect "equal performance?"  

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

It appears EC continues with the absurd claim that nothing negative about the game is WGs fault. We must always blame the fellow players.

What an easily exposed lie.

But, they persist.

Maybe they are compelled to do so in order to keep good relationships with WG staff...

...what they haven't realized is that relationships with WG staff are generally a net negative in terms of effect on your life.

[Admiral_Karasu]

The consensus, then, might be that it's up to each player what they prioritize at any given time, but in a team based game just 'suiciding' when you've achieved some single mission objective is unsportsmanlike. Not cricket, in other words. They should keep on playing for as long as they can.

[Andrewbassg]

8 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Okay, then. What do we call it when someone blames someone who isn't doing the bad thing?

Ummm....US politics?

[Wolfswetpaws]

20 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

The consensus, then, might be that it's up to each player what they prioritize at any given time,

but in a team based game just 'suiciding' when you've achieved some single mission objective is unsportsmanlike.
Not cricket, in other words.

They should keep on playing for as long as they can.

Sure, each player decides for themselves what is best for them.

Hence the controversy surrounding Potato Quality's "rage quit" incident published on youtube?

They can play as long as their ship is still afloat (and for CV's as long as their last squadron can remain aloft).
Ordnance launched prior to being sunk will travel along until its outcome is resolved, of course.
 

[Jakeshuffle]

Teammates just throwing themselves into the fray isn't exactly an uncommon occurrence in online games. People are dumb, I would know 'cause I'm a People.

[Admiral_Karasu]

13 minutes ago, Jakeshuffle said:

Teammates just throwing themselves into the fray isn't exactly an uncommon occurrence in online games. People are dumb, I would know 'cause I'm a People.

That's why we have this.