Media – Are TV/Movies going the way with weak endings more?

[Admiral_Karasu]

11 minutes ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

I call them background actors.  Clint Howard and Jonathan Banks are examples of actors who we've seen in many movies.  I'm getting too old to recognize the new background actors.

Checked those two out, definitely yes, those two I recognize. Oddly, never knew that Clint Howard was Ron Howard's brother. Jonathan Banks I probably best remember from the 'only the toes knows' thing.

[ArIskandir]

On 5/21/2024 at 5:53 AM, Tpaktop2_1 NA said:

Maybe its me. With TV/movies, endings it sort of a conclusion. And if not then there is a setup for the next season or version of the story. However, it is occurring to me I am misunderstanding the ending. I don't see series finales as endings. I give examples, Star Wars: The Bad Batch, Star Wars: Clone Wars, A gentleman in Moscow, and Juliet, Naked.

I'll admit I am misunderstanding the two Star War series because of timelines in those universes. It could be because of the big picture I am not seeing the expected ending. A gentleman in Moscow, I thought it was going to be a clear ending for a docu drama. I will not spoil the ending for that series. I thought that some blurb was going to state things about Russia for the series timeline. And Juliet, Naked started to be a bad ending for me until I saw a final cut scene which saved it.

To me it seems that endings in media are not important in the story telling anymore as with the beginnings. Maybe it's because of my age when compared to younger viewers and scriptwriters. I am not expecting a happy ending, but rather a chapter completion. I am seeing too many TV/Movies do “Whatever” endings.

Sadly, I'm not familiar with any of those shows and movie story arc and endings so this is more of a generic opinion based on similar shows/movies that have a sort of 'no-ending'. 

1. Open ending: These are rather old school at this point, I'll be surprised if your examples are of this type. Basicaly the ending is 'incomplete', it is up to you as viewer to complete the 'last stroke' in a way that makes sense to you. Classical examples are The Italian Job or the Director's cut ending for Blade Runner
2. TV show cliffhanger season finale: This one is also rather common at this point, the last episode of the season ends in a cliffhanger so you keep biting your nails waiting for the next season. Classic example: Sherlock. Sometimes the next season gets canceled and you'll never know what happened... sucks! (examples Rubicon and The Peripheral).
3. Sequel baiting finale: Also rather common. Some stuff gets tied up, but some threads are left open so you could fit in a sequel. Last example I watched: Dune 2
4. Experience oriented ending: These are more common in art cinema. In short, the plot and whole story arc are secondary to convey into the viewer a certain feeling or mood, so it is not a 'requirement' to have a story closure by the end of the movie but to drive the viewer into the desired 'mood' (could very well be frustration or confusion at the lack of resolution)
5. Cryptic Ending: I love these. Apparently you get no clear or explicit resolution to the story, but you got clues that you'll need to connect and interpret in order to make sense of it all. There is an ending, but you need to 'work' for it. This is your typical David Lynch film

There are likely more but I ran out of time. The SW shows probably don't feel the need for clear ending because the story arcs likely overlap with another show or movie or will be finally explained on another show or movie... that's a new trend of Cinematic Universes, blame Marvel. 

[Snargfargle]

On 5/21/2024 at 11:06 AM, Admiral_Karasu said:

never knew that Clint Howard was Ron Howard's brother

Character actors are like studio musicians. The public doesn't pay them much mind but they are actually everywhere. Clint Howard has acted in over 200 TV shows and movies.

Edited May 22 by Snargfargle

[Admiral_Karasu]

2001: Space Odyssey I think is one of those 'cryptic endings'. I watched it in one of those really old school small cinemas with plush red velvet and everything. I could not make any sense of the ending, admittedly I was quite young at the time but...not sure if I'd be any more successful now. Probably explained somewhere on the net these days, though.

[Snargfargle]

I liked the ending of Space Cowboys.

 

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

2001: Space Odyssey I think is one of those 'cryptic endings'. I watched it in one of those really old school small cinemas with plush red velvet and everything. I could not make any sense of the ending, admittedly I was quite young at the time but...not sure if I'd be any more successful now. Probably explained somewhere on the net these days, though.

2001 is child of its time, the ending is psychodelic trip. It has been ages since I read the books and I always fall sleep on the caleidoscopic obelisk scene so tbh I'm not sure how the movie ends. 

The first obelisk (earth) propelled human evolución from ape to sapiens. The second obelisk (Júpiter) is meant to propel another human evolution to a higher degree of conciousness, overcoming the self and the boundaries of space and time... Your typical acid trip. That's it... 

Until the guy wrote 3001 undoing all the hippie trippie stuff and turning the obelisk into Cosmic tripwires from an ancient alien civilization... 😑

Edited May 22 by ArIskandir
Fgging hate my phone autocorrect... It wants to translate everything

[Musket22]

I find that in the case of TV shows, the plots are resonably good but because of too many ads. they have a reduced reduced run time to properly end the show and end up rushing it. 

Case in point IMO is the CBS show 'Tracker'.

[Musket22]

On 5/21/2024 at 9:06 AM, Admiral_Karasu said:

Oddly, never knew that Clint Howard was Ron Howard's brother. 

The first show I can remember seeing Clint in was in an original Star Trek episode where a sphere encapsulated the Enterprise.

Kirk et all thought it was a humongous ship but Clint was the sole occupier Balok.

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

10 minutes ago, Musket22 said:

The first show I can remember seeing Clint in was in an original Star Trek episode where a sphere encapsulated the Enterprise.

Kirk et all thought it was a humongous ship but Clint was the sole occupier Balok.

 

I did not know that.  Thanks.  🙂 

Side note, in the game Star Trek Online, Tranya is available  when one's character gets an appropriate Bartender on-board as a member of the ship's crew.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Tranya
 

[Snargfargle]

Another amazing ending that turns a "creature feature" horror episode on its head.

 

[SunkCostFallacy]

On 5/21/2024 at 9:53 PM, Tpaktop2_1 NA said:

Maybe its me. With TV/movies, endings it sort of a conclusion. And if not then there is a setup for the next season or version of the story. However, it is occurring to me I am misunderstanding the ending. I don't see series finales as endings. I give examples, Star Wars: The Bad Batch, Star Wars: Clone Wars, A gentleman in Moscow, and Juliet, Naked.

I'll admit I am misunderstanding the two Star War series because of timelines in those universes. It could be because of the big picture I am not seeing the expected ending. A gentleman in Moscow, I thought it was going to be a clear ending for a docu drama. I will not spoil the ending for that series. I thought that some blurb was going to state things about Russia for the series timeline. And Juliet, Naked started to be a bad ending for me until I saw a final cut scene which saved it.

To me it seems that endings in media are not important in the story telling anymore as with the beginnings. Maybe it's because of my age when compared to younger viewers and scriptwriters. I am not expecting a happy ending, but rather a chapter completion. I am seeing too many TV/Movies do “Whatever” endings.

I don't watch a lot of 'media' these days because I stopped watching TV back in 2005. I won't bore you with the why. What I started doing was downloading those few things that were left on TV that I wanted to watch. I also need to note that the number of things that I bother to download these days is markedly decreased.

What I have noticed however, from various discussions and what I do download, is that there seems to be a LOT of series that clearly get canceled before they reach whatever end point that the writers had envisaged. That is IF the writers had even gotten so far as to have a culmination for whatever story they are telling.

To my mind a large part of the problem is that what we are being shown are now viewed as IP or Franchises, or even worse as content, and not as stories they are telling.

For instance (and I'll go with something non-controversial): The Pixar movie Cars. It basically told a story. Beginning, middle and end. It stood alone and didn't need a sequel to clarify stuff, or finish off the story.  I'm sure that the executroids at Pixar were hoping that it would turn into an ongoing series of movies that they could make money from ... but the writers told a complete story even though they didn't end it in a way that precluded a sequel.

These days, however, the approach is very different.

Consider the disaster that was She-Hulk. It's blatantly obvious that the final episode of that was written with up-to-the-minute knowledge of the criticisms that the show had been receiving. They may have written the general outline of that episode before they went to film it, but it had very clearly been rewritten in response to the poor reception that the show got. I suggest that you CANNOT tell a good story that way.

Leaving aside the (in my opinion) marked decrease in the skill of the writers rooms these days ... it's got to be pretty hard to tell a good story when the people above you are insisting that you leave it as open ended as possible so that they can take the 'franchise' in whatever direction seems most profitable with the next show/movie/whatever.

And that seems, to me at least, to explain why these series get canceled and/or wrapped up poorly.  They aren't telling a story any more ... they are trying to establish and milk an IP or Franchise and that means that they will KEEP milking it as long as humanly possible. I don't believe that a story can be told that way, not and make it good.

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

6 hours ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

I don't watch a lot of 'media' these days because I stopped watching TV back in 2005. I won't bore you with the why. What I started doing was downloading those few things that were left on TV that I wanted to watch. I also need to note that the number of things that I bother to download these days is markedly decreased.

What I have noticed however, from various discussions and what I do download, is that there seems to be a LOT of series that clearly get canceled before they reach whatever end point that the writers had envisaged. That is IF the writers had even gotten so far as to have a culmination for whatever story they are telling.

To my mind a large part of the problem is that what we are being shown are now viewed as IP or Franchises, or even worse as content, and not as stories they are telling.

For instance (and I'll go with something non-controversial): The Pixar movie Cars. It basically told a story. Beginning, middle and end. It stood alone and didn't need a sequel to clarify stuff, or finish off the story.  I'm sure that the executroids at Pixar were hoping that it would turn into an ongoing series of movies that they could make money from ... but the writers told a complete story even though they didn't end it in a way that precluded a sequel.

These days, however, the approach is very different.

Consider the disaster that was She-Hulk. It's blatantly obvious that the final episode of that was written with up-to-the-minute knowledge of the criticisms that the show had been receiving. They may have written the general outline of that episode before they went to film it, but it had very clearly been rewritten in response to the poor reception that the show got. I suggest that you CANNOT tell a good story that way.

Leaving aside the (in my opinion) marked decrease in the skill of the writers rooms these days ... it's got to be pretty hard to tell a good story when the people above you are insisting that you leave it as open ended as possible so that they can take the 'franchise' in whatever direction seems most profitable with the next show/movie/whatever.

And that seems, to me at least, to explain why these series get canceled and/or wrapped up poorly.  They aren't telling a story any more ... they are trying to establish and milk an IP or Franchise and that means that they will KEEP milking it as long as humanly possible. I don't believe that a story can be told that way, not and make it good.

 

Whereas I think Babylon 5 series was done in a way that when the filming started, they already had the 5 year story written down.

[SunkCostFallacy]

1 minute ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Whereas I think Babylon 5 series was done in a way that when the filming started, they already had the 5 year story written down.

So I gather 😄

[Navalpride33]

Well.. Endings should be a culmination of everything you have been through in an invested series/movie/TV. Do that happen every time?? Nope..

So...What makes a great culminating/captivating ending, compared to those not matching our expectations?

The writing.

Actors can make scat look like a chocolate sundae. Then again if the writing is notorious. No professional acting will save it from reality.

That's why... Im hooked on Korean Dramas.. They're short and written well and the finally is decent.

Hollywood Sucks atm.

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Whereas I think Babylon 5 series was done in a way that when the filming started, they already had the 5 year story written down.

That was one of the items negotiated during contract discussions, if I am correct.
5 seasons, all or nothing.