Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) 54 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: - We were told that there is a reason that they will not disclose. If there was a technical reason it will not work, I think there would be a better explanation. My assumption is that they would then have to nerf a lot of DDs since they currently use plane spotting to keep these ships performance in check. They don't want to admit this to the very community claiming those ships are 'unplayable.' Basically, they don't want to have to bear the bad news that struggling with planes as a DD captain is evidence of a skill issue, not a game mechanics issue... ...however even that root cause is at WG's feet. The core problem is the concealment mechanism is broken, and has been broken for a long time... ...and THAT WG has no idea how to fix. Edited May 21 by Daniel_Allan_Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) 57 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: - We were told that there is a reason that they will not disclose. If there was a technical reason it will not work, I think there would be a better explanation. Soo....... I;m not really willing to take their word at face value, generally speaking. And this would be good reason, to not tell. 57 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: - This mechanic already exists in the form of delayed radar spotting and cyclone spotting. If there were mods already breaking this that are not detectable, there would already be an issue that would need to be addressed. That's a region on the map (i.e a condition) and I suspect this certainly would interfere with said condition. 57 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: I'm not saying people can't cheat mind you, they can and probably do. But that's an issue every game faces so I don't think cheating is the reason they refuse to test this change again. Personally, the way it was stated, "I cannot give you the reason...", makes me think that it has something to do with Mir Korabli already attempting to do it again, and there's some sort of IP conflict happening. I'm not sure that I follow you. The aforementioned mod is an approved mod. That's how it works. You click n the minimap and it is rendered in plain view. Edited May 21 by Andrewbassg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 29 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: I could almost bet the real reason is they took one look at the code and realized they can't do it. This is how it would have looked to them... Thing is, they can. The mechanic is in the game already. It's even been tested before, but was abandoned without saying why. This happened before the WG/Lesta split, however. What makes me think there's some kind of NDA conflict is that Lesta decided to return to this test after the split, and WG has come up with a completely different test, which is implemented will be an entire overhaul. 2 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: My assumption is that they would then have to nerf a lot of DDs since they currently use plane spotting to keep these ships performance in check. Doubtful. The proposed rework will hurt CV spotting even more than minimap spotting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 2 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said: The aforementioned mod is an approved mod. I'm not sure what I'm looking at in that picture. Are you locked on to a minimap only target? Or is that Moskva spotted (and rendered)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: I'm not sure what I'm looking at in that picture. Are you locked on to a minimap only target? Or is that Moskva spotted (and rendered)? No..... that yellow .... "circle" is where the click is rendered. I also left a yellow ..."sort of line" where I clicked on the minimap..... Again, a simple click on the minimap is directly rendered in plain view. Edited May 21 by Andrewbassg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 minute ago, Andrewbassg said: No..... that yellow .... "circle" is where the click is rendered. I also left a yellow ..."sort of line" whee I clicked on the minimap..... Unless you can lock on to that target, the fact that it is shown there does not matter, this is no different than blind firing a minimap target, which you can already do. Rendering a ship makes it targetable, which makes you able to make use of the game's generous auto aim system. A tooltip which only reflects a location without targeting data will not allow you do do that, and it'll be as difficult as minimap aiming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itwastuesday Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 44 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: The core problem is the concealment mechanism is broken, and has been broken for a long time... How. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 42 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: The proposed rework will hurt CV spotting even more than minimap spotting. The proposed rework is all about changing CV targeting priorities...WG is still worrying about damage output rather than dealing with the root causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 20 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: Unless you can lock on to that target, the fact that it is shown there does not matter, this is no different than blind firing a minimap target, which you can already do. Yes but proves the .... "link" which is not just a link but the two realms being actually the same. Down to resolution level. 24 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: Rendering a ship makes it targetable, which makes you able to make use of the game's generous auto aim system. A tooltip which only reflects a location without targeting data will not allow you do do that, and it'll be as difficult as minimap aiming. That's not what this mod is about. This is a "quality of life improvement" mod not a hack or whatevs. You seem to look for practicality. The practicality is that one doesn't have to look at the minimap for the location of a ping, it is rendered in plain view. Aka quality of life improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Just now, Andrewbassg said: Aka quality of life improvement. Without the 'lock on' it is still the same as minimap aiming, albeit with an edited interface. I don't believe such a mod is their reason. If it was, its use would be unacceptable, as minimap spotting is already in the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArIskandir Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said: I could almost bet the real reason is they took one look at the code and realized they can't do it. This is how it would have looked to them... Believe it or not, I've structured a couple of those... Most ball busting job I've done, after eviscerating and packing 10k trouts... 😫 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 7 minutes ago, ArIskandir said: Believe it or not, I've structured a couple of those... Most ball busting job I've done, after eviscerating and packing 10k trouts... 😫 Been there .... .....tho that is a bit exaggerated...... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 10 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: Without the 'lock on' it is still the same as minimap aiming, This mod is about informing, not aiming. 11 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: I don't believe such a mod is their reason Not the mod is the reason, the reason is the two realms minimap/ view being the same. There is no separate rendering, it doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 7 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said: Not the mod is the reason, the reason is the two realms minimap/ view being the same. There is no separate rendering, it doesn't exist. I am almost certain that is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 4 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: I am almost certain that is incorrect. This mod proves it. That was the whole point. 🙂 Coz a) radar only delays the rendering. - condition. b)Cyclones only restrict the rendering to 8 km - condition c) too much distance, no visual rendering - condition. So yeah all these clues combined gives us the a+b=c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 minute ago, Andrewbassg said: This mod proves it. That was the whole point. I fully admit I might be explaining this poorly. My point is that a target lock on is different from being shown the target. The mod reflects the location of the minimap target on your HUD, if I'm understanding it correctly. But this is not a target you can lock onto, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 I'm reminded that the Co-op 'Bots always "know" where a ship is, even if they're not allowed to "detect" and "target" the ship in question because of the detection system rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 5 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: I'm reminded that the Co-op 'Bots always "know" where a ship is, even if they're not allowed to "detect" and "target" the ship in question because of the detection system rules. Coop bots are scrubs. The real bots are now in randoms to fill the gaps. They've even learned the Gentle Art of Kill Stealing. The other day I was focusing on a bot cruiser, wore it down till within about one salvo or so when out of nowhere steams in a friendly bot DD between me and the target and slams its torps into 'my' target. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 6 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: The mod reflects the location of the minimap target No....... you click on the minimap , as attention click and that click is rendered as a dot in plain view. Completely unrelated to aiming or firing. BUT proves that there is no separate minimap/view rendering. Like at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 minute ago, Andrewbassg said: BUT proves that there is no separate minimap/view rendering. Like at all. That's not what I'm saying. Next time you try to target a ship, unlock from it by pressing X. Make sure there is no cross hair above it indicating a lock, and see the difference in difficulty tracking and hitting it. Now imagine the model is also not rendered. If this mod does not give you a target lock, it is not the problem for minimap spotting you think it is. Minimap spotting is already in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 2 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: That's not what I'm saying. Next time you try to target a ship, unlock from it by pressing X. Make sure there is no cross hair above it indicating a lock, and see the difference in difficulty tracking and hitting it. Now imagine the model is also not rendered. You still don't get it. Forget the whole aiming/lock on thing. We talk about just rendering. I will try to explain much more detailed. Soo....a ship is spotted. It is rendered both on minimap and plain view, right? However IF there are special conditions then it is rendered on minimap only. The conditions are 1) too much distance. Every ship has a sight limit beyond which he cannot see, no matter what. So ships beyond that distance are not rendered. But they will show up on the minimap. 2) Cyclones impose an 8 km limit, beyond which ships again, cannot see. So again ships beyond that are not rendered. But they will show up on minimap. 3) if radar is used there is a delay for teammates between minimap rendering and plain view rendering. but they will show up on the minimap. However this mod is not subject to any of those conditions. IF I click ANYWHERE on the minimap, no matter under what conditions, it will be rendered in plain view Which means that there is zero difference between minimap and plain view and they are the same as rendering goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 minute ago, Andrewbassg said: Forget the whole aiming/lock on thing. No. It's not irrelevant. 1 minute ago, Andrewbassg said: Which means that there is zero difference between minimap and plain view and they are the same as rendering goes. If you are not allowed to lock on the target, it is not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 @Andrewbassg Is what you are saying that the mod just projects the minimap rendering onto the main view? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 2 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: No. It's not irrelevant. It is because, we talk about a technical limitation NOT a game mechanic. Aiming and lock on are game mechanics and all game mechanics are subject to technical limitations. NOT viceversa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: @Andrewbassg Is what you are saying that the mod just projects the minimap rendering onto the main view? Yes!!!. But the very fact that CAN DO IT proves that there is no different rendering for the two realms. Edited May 21 by Andrewbassg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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