It's time for Maine

[Wolfswetpaws]

9 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

How much planes do I need to shoot down? 

"Only, *enough* to remain afloat." - words that the Yamato might say in reply.
 
 

[mashed68]

9 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

I don't see why people are so pressed about superships, they only cost credits and even then most of them are barely upgrades over the tier 10s that came before them.

Two words: super carriers. 

[Helstrem]

10 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

I don't see why people are so pressed about superships, they only cost credits and even then most of them are barely upgrades over the tier 10s that came before them.

Yes, just credits, but I disagree about the "barely upgrades".  Some of them are such massive upgrades that they can better be considered Tier XII rather than Tier XI.  Yes, Annapolis and Condé I AM looking at you.  Others like Satsuma are firmly Tier XI, or perhaps a bit above that.

Needless to say, this has made the prime credit earning tier, Tier IX, much less comfortable to play.

[ArIskandir]

15 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

I don't see why people are so pressed about superships, they only cost credits and even then most of them are barely upgrades over the tier 10s that came before them.

Because they ARE an Upgrade over T10, the tier that was suposed to be the end of the road and apex predator on the food chain.

Because their existence diminished the value of tier 10 and tier 9 ships. Even more, their existence makes tier 10 redundant and tier 9 a painful experience. 

Because at its core, it reeks of P2W mechanic.

Because it deepens the "fantasy" elements of the game without bringing anything interesting in terms of design and evolution, just more of the same but more silly and ridiculous... it's a quite literal turning the knob up to 11. (you are too young to get the reference but the older folks here will get it).

Because it shut the door on the face of a possible evolution path to Cold War Era ships (with potentially interesting mechanics and playstyles).

and this final one is just a personal opinion: Because they are a stupid, generic, cowardly and flacid concept for evolving the game. It meant caving in to Market trends instead of aligning with the player base desires. It represents either a deep disconnection and ignorance about what the player base want from the Game, or a very insulting "I can't care less, you are just cattle to be herded and milked" statement of facts... both scenarios are hateful. 

Edited May 17 by ArIskandir

[SunkCostFallacy]

2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Because they ARE an Upgrade over T10, the tier that was suposed to be the end of the road and apex predator on the food chain.

Because their existence diminished the value of tier 10 and tier 9 ships. Even more, their existence makes tier 10 redundant and tier 9 a painful experience. 

Because at its core, it reeks of P2W mechanic.

Because it deepens the "fantasy" elements of the game without bringing anything interesting in terms of design and evolution, just more of the same but more silly and ridiculous... it's a quite literal turning the knob up to 11. (you are too young to get the reference but the older folks here will get it).

Because it shut the door on the face of a possible evolution path to Cold War Era ships (with potentially interesting mechanics and playstyles).

and this final one is just a personal opinion: Because they are a stupid, generic, cowardly and flacid concept for evolving the game. It meant caving in to Market trends instead of aligning with the player base desires. It represents either a deep disconnection and ignorance about what the player base want from the Game, or a very insulting "I can't care less, you are just cattle to be herded and milked" statement of facts... both scenarios are hateful. 

Not that I am necessarily disagreeing with your thoughts ... but I think you missed one.

We've seen that WG are pretty anxious to deflate the economy in-game. Specifically they seem anxious to remove silver and boosters from people's inventories as much as possible.

I think it's pretty noteworthy that the Superships are all massive credit-sinks and booster burners¹, to an extent that they HAD to have been designed with that in mind.

 

 

1. Unless there is one now that isn't a credit sink/booster burner ... I haven't paid attention to them in a while. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

 

[BOBTHEBALL]

9 hours ago, mashed68 said:

Two words: super carriers. 

My favourite Super CV was USS US before they gave her more armour, I loved slapping that thing across the map. But I do agree there, the super CVs are just better than the tech tree counterparts.

[BOBTHEBALL]

15 hours ago, _Kokushibo_ said:

ROFL

What? Please prove otherwise. When I think of actual OP superships besides the CVs because well CVs are always OP. I can think of these; Conde, Analpolice, Satsuma and Maine. Otherwise the rest are medicore or just not worth it at all (Looking at you Novosibirsk 🤣). 
 

[BOBTHEBALL]

8 hours ago, Helstrem said:

Yes, just credits, but I disagree about the "barely upgrades".  Some of them are such massive upgrades that they can better be considered Tier XII rather than Tier XI.  Yes, Annapolis and Condé I AM looking at you.  Others like Satsuma are firmly Tier XI, or perhaps a bit above that.

Needless to say, this has made the prime credit earning tier, Tier IX, much less comfortable to play.

Besides the four; Conde, Annalpolis, Satusuma and Maine (Again not counting the CV) they're not OP. Those four are OP I 100% agree with that. 

[BOBTHEBALL]

13 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Because at its core, it reeks of P2W mechanic.

P2W because it costs credits? A free resource you can earn in-game? A free resource than you can earn easier with premium and special coal ships which can be obtained for free by another in-game resource? This isn't adding up here...

13 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Because it deepens the "fantasy" elements of the game without bringing anything interesting in terms of design and evolution, just more of the same but more silly and ridiculous... it's a quite literal turning the knob up to 11. (you are too young to get the reference but the older folks here will get it).

This game has always been fantasy... 

13 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Because it shut the door on the face of a possible evolution path to Cold War Era ships (with potentially interesting mechanics and playstyles).

WG will do Cold War still if they want, missiles soon

13 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

and this final one is just a personal opinion: Because they are a stupid, generic, cowardly and flacid concept for evolving the game. It meant caving in to Market trends instead of aligning with the player base desires. It represents either a deep disconnection and ignorance about what the player base want from the Game, or a very insulting "I can't care less, you are just cattle to be herded and milked" statement of facts... both scenarios are hateful. 

Well my personal opinion is 1. I love playing superships and 2. I like fighting superships because besides the CVs and the 4 I keep mentioning they're not that scary.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

1 hour ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

Unless there is one now that isn't a credit sink/booster burner ...

No, they're all like that. The expensive cigar that you smoke on special occasions, as opposed to the cigarettes you buy by the shipping container for dirt cheap. 

I have 170 million credits right now - more than enough to buy a supership, equip it and operate it on a regular basis for quite a while, making up the credit sink by play in premiums. The issue is which captain I put in it, because it needs to be a good one and that will deprive some other tech-tree ship of a badly needed commander. 

In the end, I decided that I would probably use my supership less often than the PTS was active. So I might as well forget about it and only drive superships in PTS, where neither the running costs nor the captain reposting are an issue.

[Wolfswetpaws]

21 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

No, they're all like that. The expensive cigar that you smoke on special occasions, as opposed to the cigarettes you buy by the shipping container for dirt cheap. 

I have 170 million credits right now - more than enough to buy a supership, equip it and operate it on a regular basis for quite a while, making up the credit sink by play in premiums. The issue is which captain I put in it, because it needs to be a good one and that will deprive some other tech-tree ship of a badly needed commander. 

In the end, I decided that I would probably use my supership less often than the PTS was active. So I might as well forget about it and only drive superships in PTS, where neither the running costs nor the captain reposting are an issue.

When I welcomed my Conde' to my Port, I assigned a 3-point Commander to her.
Why?
Well, that 3-point Commander wasn't getting experience by being in the Resreve Barracks, and I figured that I'd eventually train them.
Using some econ-bonuses was fine by me, too.
I play the Conde, and now also the Piemonte, a few times per month, simply to keep the costs from impacting my credits earnings too much.

They're fun ships, even after the Conde's nerfs handed-down by the developers.
But, they never were, nor are they now, "over powered", in my opinion.

The point is, whatever Commander you decide to assign to a ship will level-up, eventually.
If you feel that you prefer more skill points, well then you can swap the Commander or simply use CXP to hasten their training.
The choice is yours.  🙂 
 

[Frostbow]

2 hours ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

We've seen that WG are pretty anxious to deflate the economy in-game. Specifically they seem anxious to remove silver and boosters from people's inventories as much as possible.

That is correct. And it extends to how they reduced anniversary containers, citing the ridiculous excuse of 'inflation'.

[Itwastuesday]

I hated superships initially for many of the reasons cited, chiefly devaluing hard-earned steel/rb ships. Also initially it seemed like they will get more and more ridiculous. These mediocre Clausewitz/Humphreys/Patrie releases were a welcome change of pace. Not many play superships, barely a few in any match. Both may change in the future, though. 

What I most dislike about them now is the inconvenience of them being TT ships. I would get Humphreys, but I don't have 21 point commanders up the ass, won't abandon Gearing as it might have some use and absolutely won't pilot a t11 dd with some chump 10 pointer. 

I waited for Maine with some anticipation. It roughly subscribes to my theory of perfect modern day random battle meta battleship. Lots of shells in the air with big dpm and alpha strike, with 406mm caliber minimum and no gunnery weaknesses so big that it negates the advantage of all the steely death in the air (american shells are a mixed bag, on one hand I love railguns, on the other I also love shells plunging into citadels). And Maine doesn't come with some garbage hull or other weakness that ruins it, much like Montana before. Ideally I would want german/soviet/italian/ijn armor, but overall the ship is survivable. Antiair gimmick also the most acceptable gimmick ever. 

4 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

What? Please prove otherwise. When I think of actual OP superships besides the CVs because well CVs are always OP. I can think of these; Conde, Analpolice, Satsuma and Maine. Otherwise the rest are medicore or just not worth it at all (Looking at you Novosibirsk 🤣). 
 

Man, I don't get your beef with Novosibirsk. Statistically an upgrade over petro in every way. Different hull geometry, no 360 turret and no legmod, that's it. Most absurd pen for cruiser ever. 

[Ocsimano18]

I unlocked the Maine yesterday. So far I had only one random battle with her. I’m a bit dissapointed. I got a kraken, but only 120k-ish damage. Also, the hull was’t particularly tanky, and felt a bit clumsy. My health went below half of my HP rather quickly, without doing silly things. That 35 sec reload feels slow compared to the slightly above average salvos. The AP is especially disappointing on angled targets (you get like 2k), I haven’t tried the HE yet. Overall I prefer the Patrie over this. Those guns deliver all the time. This feels like a Lyon, lots of shells get some hits, but just slightly above average for a supership.

[BOBTHEBALL]

29 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Man, I don't get your beef with Novosibirsk. Statistically an upgrade over petro in every way. Different hull geometry, no 360 turret and no legmod, that's it. Most absurd pen for cruiser ever. 

The only thing she has going that's better is much better AP pen. Otherwise she's not great at all. Surely if you love her so much you probably do amazingly in her.

[Itwastuesday]

4 minutes ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

The only thing she has going that's better is much better AP pen. Otherwise she's not great at all. Surely if you love her so much you probably do amazingly in her.

And higher dpm, more usable he, 10k more hp, faster, more stealthy and worse aa (!?). Amazing god-tier AP pen does mean the ship generates a crossfire positionally with battleships and threatens enemy battleships from quite long ranges, which is the closest any cruiser ever comes to not being a pointless filler. 

[BOBTHEBALL]

4 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

And higher dpm, more usable he, 10k more hp, faster, more stealthy and worse aa (!?). Amazing god-tier AP pen does mean the ship generates a crossfire positionally with battleships and threatens enemy battleships from quite long ranges, which is the closest any cruiser ever comes to not being a pointless filler. 

She's so so overrated and not worth the credits at all. I've already been over this before in another thread ages ago. I'm not continuing. If I see a Novo in-game it's free food nothing else.

[ArIskandir]

14 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

P2W because it costs credits? A free resource you can earn in-game? A free resource than you can earn easier with premium and special coal ships which can be obtained for free by another in-game resource? This isn't adding up here...

Ok, i see I need to explain why Superships are barely veiled P2W mechanic...

Let's start with the following evidently true statements (if you doubt they are true we can discuss them later):

1. Superships are more powerful than their respective T10. They represent an upgrade and provide a competitive advantage over the previous tier.
2. It is impossible for a F2P account to make profit or even break even when playing Superships in any consistent way. It's unsustainable to play T11 as F2P.

Now that we have established Superships are the Apex of Power within the game and you can't enjoy them consistently for free, let's observe how it is perfectly possible to enjoy them on a regular basis, even exclusively if you so desire, as long as you are willing to sink whatever amount of credits required, which you are free to acquire from the shop without any limitation, or through any of the different "enhancement" mechanics like PT, Battle Pass, etc.

I know you'll say "but you can farm credits playing (whatever suitable tier/ship) and then play your Supership". Yes, it is true but the operating word here is CONSISTENCY. As a F2P (or even standar Premium account), you are forced to play a significant amount of matches in lower tiers (aka act as fodder for the apex predators) in order to play the apex predator role yourself. If that were the rule for everyone I would say it's fair, but that rule can be easily circunvented by paying. You can pay for the privilege of enjoying the Apex Predator role EVERY SINGLE MATCH if that's what you desire. That reeks of P2W mechanic.

Now a bit of history. I was a WoT player and started playing WoWS back in 2016 iirc but left the game a few months later once I realized WoWS also had the same twisted, exploitative "F2P" mechanics (as in serving F2P population as fodder to Premium customers). In time WoWS "corrected" (or shot themselves in the foot, depending on the perspective) the most exploitative elements and actually became a really good and fair F2P game, honestly. Superships are a throwback to the old ways, to how the game was originally envisioned, they are a regression to a more exploitative monetization scheme...

In a way it's like taking back civil rights and rolling back progressive laws... this is the Talibans taking back power, criminalizing syndicates and workers unions, taking back resources from Public Health and Education systems, criminalizing homosexual behaviour, etc... I think you understand what I mean, that's why I hate the Supership concept so much and the main reason why I left the game. The Forum closure was the last drop on my cup, but Superships filled my darn cup in the first place. 

Edited May 18 by ArIskandir

[ArIskandir]

14 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

This game has always been fantasy... 

I see there was some edition to your answer 😉

Don't worry... here's the context to my "going to 11" reference

 

[HogHammer]

1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

Don't worry... here's the context to my "going to 11" reference

That Spinal Tap clip is PERFECT!