Abandoned grinds: which ships can you simply not get to work for you (that you thought were going to be great)?

[ArIskandir]

14 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

At least you're not in a situation where you waited years for something that was long, hard and full of seamen, only to find that using it left you with a bad taste in your mouth and everyone else feeling more than a little salty. 

That felt too close to home to be comfortable.... 🙃

Edited May 3 by ArIskandir

[Darlith]

I don't think I'd ever completely give up on a grind, but there are plenty I give far less effort to that I think fit the general theme. Also not going to say these are bad, like some others in the thread I play co-op and ops and many of these lines just are not suited to that mode. I don't ever give up on a line because there is always the Russian BB, which I hated working through them until I hit Sinop. there is always that chance I will get to a ship I finally enjoy.

So that said the lines I have put on low priority.
 

Subs, all lines - Subs just are not well suited to the Co-op environs. It isn't that I can't make them work okish, but they aren't as satisfying as I'd like. Too bad because the gameplay changeup is nice

Aircraft carriers, all lines except the US, and even the US are middling low - See above, Aircraft Carriers don't shine in co-op. Unlike the subs I don't find the gameplay as fun, but I do find them more satisfying at times. Need to try them more in ops but not sure I want to run t6 carriers there and only the US ones are to t8 so far.

Italian BBs - They just don't provide anything substantial compared to other BB lines, got it to t8 will probably be one of the last lines I bother with.

US hybrids - This will be the second to last, I don't think the trade off of a turret for some occasional planes that have iffy dispersion is good in co-op

Dutch Cruisers - Got this to T8, likely will sit there a long time. It is okay, but simply okay. I find the planes underwhelming in general, and if I am going to lean heavily into guns I have others I'd prefer playing. Slightly better in operations though so not a total loss.

French Super Cruisers - If I have the urge to play the Richeliu I will, not a cruiser knockoff. Seriously though it isn't bad, I just much prefer the heavy cruiser line. Guns are just too slow and inconsistant to really enjoy.

Italian DDs - got it to T8, none of them have been all that enjoyable. Guns are nice, but not enough nice to make up for other things.

Euro DDs both lines - They are okay but most any other line of DDs feels more useful or fun to play in co-op

 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

17 minutes ago, Darlith said:

French Super Cruisers - If I have the urge to play the Richeliu I will, not a cruiser knockoff.

Would I be correct in guessing you're still in the Cherbourg? I did not like that ship. The minute I stepped into the Brest, I noted an immediate improvement in the potency of the main armament. The reload is sometimes still problematic, but the results are more consistent. Plus, the right combination of commander skills will see your secondaries firing out past 11km and starting all sorts of nuisance fires, decappings, etc. 

21 minutes ago, Darlith said:

Euro DDs both lines

Torpedo line wasn't fun for me until the Oland's B torps gave the ship a little more 'bite'. Gun line got good at Grom, IMHO. Split feels a little weaker in gun terms (fewer barrels) but that short-duration radar is good for nailing Italian bot DDs in fuel smoke or making sure there are no surprises waiting for you behind a rocky outcrop. The lack of AP ammo to farm citadels on small and inadequately defended light cruisers at short distances is a problem, though.

[HogHammer]

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Yeah, but that's more like "Well, I'm not mad-keen but I guess I'd better give them a try to see what they're like and get the submariner's perspective".  At least you're not in a situation where you waited years for something that was long, hard and full of seamen, only to find that using it left you with a bad taste in your mouth and everyone else feeling more than a little salty. 

Hmmmmm.................

[Darlith]

44 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Would I be correct in guessing you're still in the Cherbourg? I did not like that ship. The minute I stepped into the Brest, I noted an immediate improvement in the potency of the main armament. The reload is sometimes still problematic, but the results are more consistent. Plus, the right combination of commander skills will see your secondaries firing out past 11km and starting all sorts of nuisance fires, decappings, etc. 

Torpedo line wasn't fun for me until the Oland's B torps gave the ship a little more 'bite'. Gun line got good at Grom, IMHO. Split feels a little weaker in gun terms (fewer barrels) but that short-duration radar is good for nailing Italian bot DDs in fuel smoke or making sure there are no surprises waiting for you behind a rocky outcrop. The lack of AP ammo to farm citadels on small and inadequately defended light cruisers at short distances is a problem, though.

Yeah still on the Cherbourg. I will get to grinding it eventually but it is far down the list of T8 cruisers I will work through.

Don't have the B torps on Oland yet, might help. Grom felt okay but I'd still rather have been in one of the other DD lines. Split felt disappointing.

[mashed68]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Jinan and St.Vincent is actually quite OP and fun to play. Jinan with the buffed range is kinda Wooster in smoke but without radar and those 4 racks of DWT can devastate a flank. St.Vincent is by many considered the strongest T10 BB since it has Conq Zombie heal Thunderer AP and fire chance and spood beast.

One is just sitting in smoke shooting a lot and the other is just a badly armored BB without cool gimmicks like secondaries or large amount of torps. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, HogHammer said:

Hmmmmm.................

 
 

[tocqueville8]

I've tried more than one to reset a sub line to force myself to learn how to play them.

Every time, a combination of not being good at them and being bored while sailing them around (and this was before the shotgunning nerf...) meant that I ended up free xp'ing my way back to Tier 10.

[Unlooky]

11 hours ago, mashed68 said:

One is just sitting in smoke shooting a lot and the other is just a badly armored BB without cool gimmicks like secondaries or large amount of torps. 

Pls buff vincent immediately WG. 18" guns with British HE, ridiculous speed, concealment, and survivability just isn't good enough. What do you even play BBs for, if you require them to have torps and secondaries? Actual Schlieffen main brainrot. 

 

Anyways, to answer the original post, it would be Daring and Colombo. I started the grind for Daring probably 2 years ago and barely ever want to actually grind it, especially with all the anemic mid tiers. I have Jutland researched but not bought, I just don't feel like grinding it even though Daring is busted. Colombo I have 0 interest in acquiring, so I've had the T7 unlocked for a while. 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

11 hours ago, mashed68 said:

One is just sitting in smoke shooting a lot and the other is just a badly armored BB without cool gimmicks like secondaries or large amount of torps. 

I think many would disagree .... but sure .... they are just that....

 

Subs aren't strong .... they just ships that go underwater and have gimmicks and a large amount of torps .............

Edited May 4 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Subs aren't strong .... they just ships that go underwater and have gimmicks and a large amount of torps .............

I'm still feeling the "arming-distance nerf" to submarine torpedoes pretty keenly.
Tickling a ship for less than 3,000 HP of damage (with 4 to 6 torpedoes) merely because of an arbitrary 0.1 km of distance threshold is total bovine excrement.  🙂 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I'm still feeling the "arming-distance nerf" to submarine torpedoes pretty keenly.
Tickling a ship for less than 3,000 HP of damage (with 4 to 6 torpedoes) merely because of an arbitrary 0.1 km of distance threshold is total bovine excrement.  🙂 

I dont feel like its that hard of a nerf to be honest. I mostly feel it in playing in youre face Nukes like Gato ot he IJN or Russian T8 premiums, in those it was kind of "fun" to go straight into an enemy BB and Nuke him from full HP from 400 meters. But I just had to change up my playstyle a little so now im mostly coming from the rear or from the side and try and analyze his movement before launch. 

My other most played subs, T8 and T10 German has such long range I really shouldn't be so close in first place, more fun to ping ships at 13-14 km range and then see their 10-11 km ASW fall short. U 4501 I just sit within 10 km and do burnout donuts while spamming torps from all sides.

Never really play US or British subs, there is no point. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I dont feel like its that hard of a nerf to be honest. I mostly feel it in playing in youre face Nukes like Gato ot he IJN or Russian T8 premiums, in those it was kind of "fun" to go straight into an enemy BB and Nuke him from full HP from 400 meters. But I just had to change up my playstyle a little so now im mostly coming from the rear or from the side and try and analyze his movement before launch. 

My other most played subs, T8 and T10 German has such long range I really shouldn't be so close in first place, more fun to ping ships at 13-14 km range and then see their 10-11 km ASW fall short. U 4501 I just sit within 10 km and do burnout donuts while spamming torps from all sides.

Never really play US or British subs, there is no point. 

In the past, it was really fun for me to play an "in your face" style of torpedo-fu.
Literally can't do that nowadays.  

This video serves as an example, while I'm mingling among BB's inside their own base, hosted courtesy of @ArIskandir.
Wolf's Submarine Adventure

 

[Frostbow]

I would suggest not abandoning grinds. Tier X ships can be useful during Anniversary Events and for the traditional New Year's Certificates. I've gotten ships like Imperator, WV '44, Dunkerque, Hood, Bearn, Toulon, Collingwood, etc. along with items like Steel, Doubloons, among others simply because the number of Tier X ships I have were enough for super containers and certificates.

My approach has been to grind from Tier VI → Tier IX in Operations and then to maximize temporary events like Asymmetric Battles, Convoy, Brawls, Piñata Hunt, etc. to complete the Tier IX → Tier X grind.

The last tech tree grind that I approached with much hesitation was the German Z-52 line. I abandoned the grind for a year. I was asking myself if it would be worth the effort to get another Tier X that was already heavily power-creeped. I also do not play destroyers that much. Still, I went ahead. I eventually completed the research needed to unlock the Tier VI and from there started the journey towards fully researching the Tier X.

If there are no temporary events, it would then become a good opportunity to bring the ship to PVP.

Limiting a tech tree grind to Co-op is a huge waste of resources and effort, not to mention the time it takes to complete the grind in a mode that at its best, gives out miniscule rewards for a 4-minute child's play. If a ship is proving to be difficult to play, or if one is not confident or is lacking in skills to bring the grind to PVP, or if one simply wishes to protect a 50% win rate from the risk of sliding down back to 49%, Operations and temporary modes allow for a relatively fast grind to Tier X that should put thoughts and words about 'abandoning a grind' to its final resting place.

[Wolfswetpaws]

9 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

Limiting a tech tree grind to Co-op is a huge waste of resources and effort, not to mention the time it takes to complete the grind in a mode that at its best, gives out miniscule rewards for a 4-minute child's play. If a ship is proving to be difficult to play, or if one is not confident or is lacking in skills to bring the grind to PVP, or if one simply wishes to protect a 50% win rate from the risk of sliding down back to 49%, Operations and temporary modes allow for a relatively fast grind to Tier X that should put thoughts and words about 'abandoning a grind' to its final resting place.

There are only so many ships that spawn near one's own ship, regarless of game mode.
If your Co-op games are only lasting 4 minutes?  Then kudos to your team.
IF a typical Co-op game lasts somewhere between 7 to 10 minutes, I can get two to three games of damage/XP/hits-on-targets/sinkings compared with one game in randoms.
The trade-off is the service costs.
Also, randoms can involve a lot of kiting and boring island-camping play.  *That* is tedious and is predictable and the difficulty is putting-up with it.
Co-op players sink more ships per minute.  "Change my mind."  🙂 

[ArIskandir]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I dont feel like its that hard of a nerf to be honest.

The problem is not being too hard or not, the problem is it being an utterly stupid and idiotic change... in whom's mind is it a good player interaction to be defenseless at close range engagements?  Please explain to me where's the positive on not being able to defend yourself the closer you get to the enemy? 

[Frostbow]

29 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Also, randoms can involve a lot of kiting and boring island-camping play.  *That* is tedious and is predictable and the difficulty is putting-up with it.

'Boring' would depend on a lot of factors, chief among them a player's perceptions, skill set, and their very own definition of what 'boring' is. For example, kiting can be boring for someone who is used to the harmless, cut-and-dried, feeding frenzy of Co-op; yet it can be exciting for someone using it to maximize 1) combat effectiveness of the ship he is currently grinding, and 2) the resulting Base XP essential in any grind, in Random Battles. The same is true with island-camping. It is boring in the mad thoughtless rush in Co-op; but it can be the key to staying alive as a Buffalo or Seattle as you grind to Des Moines or Worcester. 

Yes it can be tedious at times, however there is a pattern to it that has long been discussed in many forums: opening, mid, and late game. The 'difficulty' varies from player to player, usually depending on the experience and skill set. And along the way, you get more experience that can help improve your skills.

39 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I can get two to three games of damage/XP/hits-on-targets/sinkings compared with one game in randoms. The trade-off is the service costs.

You are correct. This is very true, especially if combat missions like ribbons or damage, are involved. But if we are to talk about grinding ships to Tier X where Base XP earned is essential, the modes I have discussed earlier—Operations and temporary ones like AB, Piñata, Convoy, etc.—still gives much better Base XP per battle compared to Co-op. They also allow players to play their ships in ways that elevate them from the one-dimensional play that has long been the trademark of Co-op.

45 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Co-op players sink more ships per minute.  

It would depend on the ship. If you are grinding the Kansas → Minnesota → Vermont line, you would be extremely challenged to sink bots especially if there are human-helmed Akizukis, Paolo Emilios, Kitakazes, Mogadors, Klebers, etc., in your team in Co-op.

Moreover, the ships you sunk in Co-op do not necessarily mean your grind will move forward faster because frags per battle is not the sole factor in the game's computation of your Base XP.

51 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

"Change my mind."

Again, this is all about the various ways a player can push through to completion any grind that has long been abandoned. Should you wish to finish it in Co-op, by all means, do so. 

I am not here to change anyone's mind. I'd like to think we are all capable of deciding on our own. I am just suggesting that there are other consistently proven ways to efficiently and effectively move any abandoned grind forward to Tier X, which can, among others, free up a lot of time for a player to use in other ways he or she sees fit. 

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I can get two to three games of damage/XP/hits-on-targets/sinkings compared with one game in randoms. The trade-off is the service costs.

You are correct. This is very true, especially if combat missions like ribbons or damage, are involved. But if we are to talk about grinding ships to Tier X where Base XP earned is essential, the modes I have discussed earlier—Operations and temporary ones like AB, Piñata, Convoy, etc.—still gives much better Base XP per battle compared to Co-op. They also allow players to play their ships in ways that elevate them from the one-dimensional play that has long been the trademark of Co-op.

What I will grant you, is that randoms or Asymmetric or Scenario Operations are more efficient places to use economic boosters, when compared with Co-op battles.

If I play two or three Co-op battles, and use two or three econ-boosters per 20 minutes to earn roughly 1 to 1.5 times the BaseXP that I'd earn in one random battle, then getting the most bang-for-my-buck with econ boosters may be a factor in my decision process.

[Frostbow]

2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Asymmetric or Scenario Operations are more efficient places to use economic boosters, when compared with Co-op battles.

That is what I was suggesting earlier. Now couple that with knowledge and skill, and you will be able to move the 'abandoned' grind forward faster compared to just grinding it exclusively in Co-op.

Another thing that I want to talk about is that not all ships can consistently earn nice amounts of Base XP in Co-op. For example, the OP mentioned the difficulty he has been facing in his mainly Co-op grind with the Dutch cruisers that led him to 'abandon' it. Similar to my grind for the Z-52, I did the grind for the Dutch cruisers in Operations until I fully researched the Tier IX Johan de Witt. After the initial Co-op battle, I then decided to complete the grind from Johan de Witt → Gouden Leeuw in Random Battles and it has been one of the best grinds I ever had in the game.

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

That is what I was suggesting earlier. Now couple that with knowledge and skill, and you will be able to move the 'abandoned' grind forward faster compared to just grinding it exclusively in Co-op.

Another thing that I want to talk about is that not all ships can consistently earn nice amounts of Base XP in Co-op. For example, the OP mentioned the difficulty he has been facing in his mainly Co-op grind with the Dutch cruisers that led him to 'abandon' it. Similar to my grind for the Z-52, I did the grind for the Dutch cruisers in Operations until I fully researched the Tier IX Johan de Witt. After the initial Co-op battle, I then decided to complete the grind from Johan de Witt → Gouden Leeuw in Random Battles and it has been one of the best grinds I ever had in the game.

Reminds me of the phrase "the right tool for the job", or more specifically to the cases we're discussing, "the right environment for the ship in question".  🙂 

[mashed68]

10 hours ago, Unlooky said:

Pls buff vincent immediately WG. 18" guns with British HE, ridiculous speed, concealment, and survivability just isn't good enough. What do you even play BBs for, if you require them to have torps and secondaries? Actual Schlieffen main brainrot. 

Oh no, someone doesn't like a tech line you do. What a travesty. 

[DoW_]

The lines of started and stopped, original German DD line, Russian Dd line. Randomly have many ships from early access which never stood a shot of continued development. 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

20 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

in whom's mind

This, if nothing else, should be proof that WG listens to complaints and acts on them. In this case I believe it should not have done so, but we appear to have people in charge now who are prepared to mollycoddle the whiners instead of telling them to grow a pair and deal with what the game throws at them.

[invicta2012]

I have a lot of abandoned grinds in port. This is because my peak interest is at Tiers VI-VIII where I can play PVE, operations and scenarios. I rarely have any use for Tier Xs and a bad or dull Tier IX is often a fatal blow to advancement. In some respects *bad* PVP Tier IXs are no problem as they present a challenge (I've enjoyed playing Seattle) or have huge amounts of dakka (hello Neptune). Mediocre or awkward Tier VIIIs and IXs can lead to complete abandonment, like...

1) Drake. It's a Royal Navy ship. It feels historical. It's not made of explodium. But I can't have fun with it. The slow gun reload, and the limited torpedo armament, and the limited impact of 9.2 inch guns in terms of pen, thresholds, etc mean it's always lacking DPM. Encounter looks more fun with the faster firing 203s.

2) Dutch cruisers. For all the reasons everyone has said, these are not PVE ships. Having said that, a Drake-alike Dutch cruiser with 10 inch guns, torpedoes, AA and serviceable armour, a sort of improved and normalised Haarlem, would be great. Did WG release one of those? I think I saw something about it...

3) Akizuki. I wish I enjoyed it, but it's just a bit too awkward for PVE. Not quite nimble enough, not enough torpedoes, not quite fast enough. 

[pepe_trueno]

dutch cruisers are a mixed bag, i like the tier 9 one but all the ships before it where painful. WG has the bad habit of overnerfing ships because they have a "gimmick" and in dutch cruisers case this gimmick (airstrikes) are not even that good to warrant the overall weak stats.

there is also the drastic change in play style between lower tiers and higher tiers, we go from paper thin Cls with pew pew guns to highly armored  heavy cruisers. Long story short lower tiers need better armor and higher tiers better guns. Either that or increase the range of airstrikes to  15-17 km and make the fly time proportional to distance  so they can be less of a situational gimmick.

 

pan american cruisers: once again overnerfed in the name of a gimmick. Super heal is nice, Having to deal with low caliber AP only with standar fuse, super long cooldowns on mediocre consumables and overall weak armor not so much. If you are going to make a line around consumables with super long cooldown that require the funny button to be used more than twice per match at least make those consumables good... whats the point of a 3km hydro or standard def AA with 180!!! seconds cooldown?