Asym Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 16 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said: Does that player engage in botting? With that battle count over such a short period probably to some degree. But not all the time certainly as they have main gun and torp kills which are highly unlikely from bot accts. Ramming and secondary kills, and flooding/fire as a result, sure but not main guns and torps. I would also add it could be an older person, someone with a disability, someone rehabbing dexterity and motor skills (I know of a few in NA who did this and even one of our old clan members), etc who is playing a LOT for whatever reason who is just bad. Jingles even featured a blind girl playing (with help). We just don’t know for sure what is going on based on that screenshot. Botting is very clear and easy to spot in person. If you see someone doing it you will know (especially if you see them do it often). My blacklist is full of them (helps me notice they are in game). But I need to see them with my own eyes. Stats may not be telling the actual story. And for those saying report them to CS I would say don’t waste your time. I have tried numerous times with known botters and even included replays proving it. THEY DON’T CARE! You will be told to use the in game report system (which ironically no longer has report as a bot anymore) and they will close the ticket and end it. On NA only Bogzzy has been willing to listen while others refuse to get involved. So save yourself the bother and don’t waste your time because THEY DON’T CARE! Thanks for standing up and saying something about disabled players.... I am pretty sure there are more than we know. Another point are young adults with varying degrees of Autism.... I know of at least three locally and one from Canada that play at least half-a-day and do so to help them with their conditions.... Games really do help !!! There are also a good number of Veterans with all sorts of physical difficulties in the game.... One of my friends plays with a prosthetic (a hook) that we modified a large key gaming board with foam pards (so the hook doesn't slide off the key..) I play mostly one handed as well....... Does this ^^^ account for BOTs -- that do exist? No. Does our host encourage BOT'ing to bump server counts.........I'm guess here, but -- you betcha ! Edited May 2 by Asym 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralThunder Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 2 hours ago, Asym said: Thanks for standing up and saying something about disabled players.... I am pretty sure there are more than we know. Another point are young adults with varying degrees of Autism.... I know of at least three locally and one from Canada that play at least half-a-day and do so to help them with their conditions.... Games really do help !!! There are also a good number of Veterans with all sorts of physical difficulties in the game.... One of my friends plays with a prosthetic (a hook) that we modified a large key gaming board with foam pards (so the hook doesn't slide off the key..) I play mostly one handed as well....... Does this ^^^ account for BOTs -- that do exist? No. Does our host encourage BOT'ing to bump server counts.........I'm guess here, but -- you betcha ! I have MS which has caused vision issues and dexterity issues with my hands. You never know when a player might be dealing with stuff. As I said earlier you can 100% tell when someone is botting if you SEE it. Looking at their stats doesn't tell the entire story. They could just flat out be really bad. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 6 hours ago, Jakob Knight said: or this is an alt account No. When opened my NA account..... didn't had these numbers. With the others you have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 6 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: (because battle on is a thing). Yeah..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col_NASTY Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Don't know WG does, but like the old mad reptile AH of the past there is a NEW one that just cruises around posts ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ in chat and does nothing else.. Just had him AGAIN AND REPORTED him yet AGAIN. But get kicked off the internet a couple of times.. BOOM out comes the Pink Hammer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volron Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: I think you meant SUCH a d... Oops.... Fortunately a Mod fixed it for me. Edited May 2 by Volron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nautic_Hunt Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 10 hours ago, Type_93 said: Maybe blackout the name. Like others have said, prolly not a bot. Even with more than a hundred battles a day, could be the guys only form of entertainment. More like some older naval history buff just playing pew pew shooty boats. You have hidden stats. Dont be the kettle that calls the cauldron black. My Asia stats are hidden, apart from to the clan I'm in, which isn't a scrub clan. It drives the locals crazy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WES_HoundDog Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 6 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said: Does that player engage in botting? With that battle count over such a short period probably to some degree. But not all the time certainly as they have main gun and torp kills which are highly unlikely from bot accts. Ramming and secondary kills, and flooding/fire as a result, sure but not main guns and torps. Your going to tell us that an account with more secondary kills than main guns kills is not a bot because it kills people with their main guns? and 6 torp kills? All i know about this account is what has been posted since someone hid the name. And part of what i know because of that is that they play mutsuki, which is tier 5, which is in bot invested territory. Your going to tell us a bot should not over 900+ battles get 6 torp kill on other bots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralThunder Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 46 minutes ago, WES_HoundDog said: Your going to tell us that an account with more secondary kills than main guns kills is not a bot because it kills people with their main guns? and 6 torp kills? All i know about this account is what has been posted since someone hid the name. And part of what i know because of that is that they play mutsuki, which is tier 5, which is in bot invested territory. Your going to tell us a bot should not over 900+ battles get 6 torp kill on other bots? Have you ever watched someone bot in WOWS? 99% of the time the main guns and torps don't fire. The ship just goes from spawn to the other side of the map (sometimes with a few course changes like autopilot and sometimes just straight) with the main guns locked to a position. The ship either gets grounded on an island, rams a red on the way, is sunk, or hits the border where it sits trying to still keep going. Secondary guns and AA are automated so they work. On a rare occasion the main guns get programmed to shoot (wherever the guns are locked to which is usually low and right off to one side) when they reload. I see this occasionally, but it is rare. That is what the infamous Johnny_Freedom's ships on NA did when he botted. The guns turned slightly to one side, locked, and as the ship went straight for the other side of the map the guns would fire whenever they reloaded. You would see it happen. The ship would be sailing in wide open water with nothing around it, or stuck on an island/the border, and the guns fired every 30 sec into the water right next to it (he used Missouri which is why I know every 30 sec). I have never seen someone botting where the torps launch when loaded. Do some people who bot program the torps to launch? It's possible. The chances of torps or guns set to auto fire when loaded actually hitting, never mind killing, a red are so astronomically small that I do believe the owner of that acct plays it at least some. I never said the acct didn't take part in botting. In fact I said based on the # of games in such a short time that it probably does. BUT that doesn't mean all games are with the owner botting. As I also said I feel gun and torp kills indicate the owner plays/played it at least some. It is also possible that it is not a bot acct and the owner has one or more of the reasons I gave as to why they would play a lot and be bad (that would totally account for all the secondary kills and a few gun and torp kills). I think you clearly missed what I was saying. None of us know what is going on. It could be botting, it could be a combo of botting + playing (my money is on this one as the most likely answer but I don't know that for a certainty), or it could be all playing from someone really bad/with a disability. None of us know and to assume it is straight up botting without facts is wrong. Edited May 3 by AdmiralThunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WES_HoundDog Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 56 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said: Have you ever watched someone bot in WOWS? 99% of the time the main guns and torps don't fire. The ship just goes from spawn to the other side of the map (sometimes with a few course changes like autopilot and sometimes just straight) with the main guns locked to a position. The ship either gets grounded on an island, rams a red on the way, is sunk, or hits the border where it sits trying to still keep going. Secondary guns and AA are automated so they work. On a rare occasion the main guns get programmed to shoot (wherever the guns are locked to which is usually low and right off to one side) when they reload. I see this occasionally, but it is rare. That is what the infamous Johnny_Freedom's ships on NA did when he botted. The guns turned slightly to one side, locked, and as the ship went straight for the other side of the map the guns would fire whenever they reloaded. You would see it happen. The ship would be sailing in wide open water with nothing around it, or stuck on an island/the border, and the guns fired every 30 sec into the water right next to it (he used Missouri which is why I know every 30 sec). I have never seen someone botting where the torps launch when loaded. Do some people who bot program the torps to launch? It's possible. The chances of torps or guns set to auto fire when loaded actually hitting, never mind killing, a red are so astronomically small that I do believe the owner of that acct plays it at least some. I never said the acct didn't take part in botting. In fact I said based on the # of games in such a short time that it probably does. BUT that doesn't mean all games are with the owner botting. As I also said I feel gun and torp kills indicate the owner plays/played it at least some. It is also possible that it is not a bot acct and the owner has one or more of the reasons I gave as to why they would play a lot and be bad (that would totally account for all the secondary kills and a few gun and torp kills). I think you clearly missed what I was saying. None of us know what is going on. It could be botting, it could be a combo of botting + playing (my money is on this one as the most likely answer but I don't know that for a certainty), or it could be all playing from someone really bad/with a disability. None of us know and to assume it is straight up botting without facts is wrong. Now see, i was actually talking about a wargamming bot. You know, the ones they put in to look like real players. But it is interesting that you have sound knowledge of bot programs. You have seen bots in action, can prove they were bot programs, have detailed knowledge of the trouble it takes to make one work... How do you know all this? Johnny_Freedom's ships? Was he a twitcher, streamer, utuber? Where can i get my hands on this illegal information to confirm what you state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralThunder Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 45 minutes ago, WES_HoundDog said: Now see, i was actually talking about a wargamming bot. You know, the ones they put in to look like real players. But it is interesting that you have sound knowledge of bot programs. You have seen bots in action, can prove they were bot programs, have detailed knowledge of the trouble it takes to make one work... How do you know all this? Johnny_Freedom's ships? Was he a twitcher, streamer, utuber? Where can i get my hands on this illegal information to confirm what you state? I have been talking about people who bot not WG bots. I know others have done the same in the thread and I thought OP meant that not that they thought that was a WG bot acct for randoms. You and I seem to be discussing 2 different things. The knowledge I have of bot programs comes from observing them in the game. I never have nor would I ever do it. It is 100% obvious when you actually observe it however to figure out what is going on (pretty much the same distinct behavior every time). My 1st experience with it was the infamous botter Johnny_Freedom years ago (NA server). I had many, MANY, games with JF and saw what they were doing. It was all over NA forums as well and many others were seeing it and posting about it (many on this forum were there and know of what I speak). JF even admitted it right on the forum. JF was finally caught botting by WG botting in a contest and was stripped of their prize and suspended. Granted it was only because a ton of us on the forums raised such a stink after he won that they finally looked into it, despite us reporting him over and over for months prior, but once they did he was punished. They wouldn't have done that, or made a public statement about it (which they did), if he wasn't botting. I see the exact same behavior in a lot of players still to this day. When you see the same player do the exact same thing over and over and over it becomes clear what they are doing. There have been a couple others who have become well known for it on NA. I won't name names but others here know of some of these people too. One was finally dealt with after I sent multiple replays to Bogzzy. If you think it doesn't happen you are mistaken. I mean you can continue to take this insulting and provocative tone with me if you want but it really is ridiculous and totally unnecessary. I was speaking to people botting which happens a lot in this game and it is very obvious when it happens. You can believe as you wish. Edited May 3 by AdmiralThunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said: I mean you can continue to take this insulting and provocative tone with me if you want but it really is ridiculous and totally unnecessary. Sadly, I see this kind of behavior tolerated and promoted by WG staff and volunteers on Discord and other platforms. It's ridiculous, as you say. I found the earlier posts on mine claiming I would want to be careful because of sharing the truth to be similar ridiculous nonsense from folks who have been trained by WGs silly 'moderation' techniques to be absurd. People really need to stop interacting on WGs Discord platform. It's really toxic to the community. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WES_HoundDog Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 4 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said: I have been talking about people who bot not WG bots. I know others have done the same in the thread and I thought OP meant that not that they thought that was a WG bot acct for randoms. You and I seem to be discussing 2 different things. The knowledge I have of bot programs comes from observing them in the game. I never have nor would I ever do it. It is 100% obvious when you actually observe it however to figure out what is going on (pretty much the same distinct behavior every time). My 1st experience with it was the infamous botter Johnny_Freedom years ago (NA server). I had many, MANY, games with JF and saw what they were doing. It was all over NA forums as well as others were seeing it and posting about it (many on this forum were there and know of what I speak). JF even admitted it right on the forum. JF was finally caught botting by WG in a contest and were stripped of their prize and suspended. Granted it was only because a ton of us on the forums raised such a stink after he won that they finally looked into it, despite us reporting him over and over for months prior, but once they did he was punished. They wouldn't have done that, or made a public statement about it (which they did), if he wasn't botting. I see the exact same behavior in a lot of ships still to this day. When you see the same ship do the exact same thing over and over and over it becomes clear what they are doing. There have been a couple others who have become well known for it on NA. I won't name names but others here know of some of these people too. One was finally dealt with after I sent multiple replays to Bogzzy. If you think ti doesn't happen you are mistaken. I mean you can continue to take this insulting and provocative tone with me if you want but it really is ridiculous and totally unnecessary. I was speaking to people botting which happens a lot in this game and it is very obvious when it happens. You can believe as you wish. I have no opinion on if botting is happening in this game or not. I posted years ago of a player that i was pretty convinced was a bot. However of course there are people that come on the forum to responded with excuses for the 'player' as there are here. However you stated you have proof positive evidence that botting is in the game and is done "a lot in this game and is very obvious". You also talked about how hard it is to put in shooting into the program. It sounded like you had in-depth knowledge of running and coding a bot program. Apparently i was wrong, you don't have first hand knowledge. Your evidence ends at ONE person was banned how many years ago and that other ships do similar things. So at this point, how would you know it's hard to code shooting and launching torps? I, as much as anyone would like to know if bot programs are an issue in WoW. Hell i just had a match earlier today that i posted about that could have as much as 10 of the enemy ships be bots by the way they played. So i was curious for hard evidence of botting and you sounded like you had it. Sorry (not really) if you felt insulted to be asked for hard proof. Edited May 3 by WES_HoundDog 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Please stay constructive. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogHammer Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 5 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: Please stay constructive. ^^^THIS^^^ and I'll add, please be respectful, folks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Scientific methods, and court cases, require evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Scientific methods, and court cases, require evidence. We are not in court...and scientific methods require open data, which WG denies us. All we are left with is speculation. Given what we do know in terms of WG's past history, distrust of WG is a reasonable response. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 I was just in battle doing Naval Battle (it didn't go well), and I spotted one of our BB's just pushing into A cap on Shatters, never mind there was a smoked up enemy DD with hydro right outside the cap area. Now, just a couple of seconds later this is what happened... I got sunk soon afterwards, waited around to check the final placings and... surprise surprise. There you get to see our Izumo again. Note I'm not mentioning any names here... well, apart from mine. I guess I'll have to report myself for naming and shaming then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: well, apart from mine. I guess I'll have to report myself for naming and shaming then. Perhaps we will have to update the forum rules to accomodate using our own names? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Just now, Wolfswetpaws said: Perhaps we will have to update the forum rules to accomodate using our own names? Let's see now... @HogHammer? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: 8 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Scientific methods, and court cases, require evidence. We are not in court...and scientific methods require open data, which WG denies us. All we are left with is speculation. Given what we do know in terms of WG's past history, distrust of WG is a reasonable response. I am well aware of the proprietary nature of WG/WOWs internal data. What we can do, as others have mentioned, is observe and report our individual findings in a "best possible" manner. Which may involve taking screen-shots and converting replays into youtube videos. Because images and videos can become evidence. And enough evidence, gathered properly from enough sources, may eventually reach the statistical thresholds needed for a scientific study. I'm also well aware that a number of players may harbor strong feelings about WG/WOWs and perhaps also their fellow players. "Strong feelings", by themselves, aren't enough evidence to justify "persecution complex" behaviors. https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/persecution-complex I do support the idea of getting the facts. There are incidents in the history of the game of World of Warships which have made news headlines and forum topics. I'm not denying that. I also don't attempt to deny anyone's capability to form their own opinions. I'm merely suggesting that there can be a "leveling-up" of standards of behavior which set good examples. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 19 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: I am well aware of the proprietary nature of WG/WOWs internal data. What we can do, as others have mentioned, is observe and report our individual findings in a "best possible" manner. Which may involve taking screen-shots and converting replays into youtube videos. Because images and videos can become evidence. And enough evidence, gathered properly from enough sources, may eventually reach the statistical thresholds needed for a scientific study. I'm also well aware that a number of players may harbor strong feelings about WG/WOWs and perhaps also their fellow players. "Strong feelings", by themselves, aren't enough evidence to justify "persecution complex" behaviors. https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/persecution-complex I do support the idea of getting the facts. There are incidents in the history of the game of World of Warships which have made news headlines and forum topics. I'm not denying that. I also don't attempt to deny anyone's capability to form their own opinions. I'm merely suggesting that there can be a "leveling-up" of standards of behavior which set good examples. Ah. Yes, we need to share what we have so folks can SEE what is real...rather than just kvetching it about is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: Ah. Yes, we need to share what we have so folks can SEE what is real...rather than just kvetching it about is. Yeah. It's somewhere between "pics or it didn't happen" and "put-up or shut-up", eh? 😉 https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakob Knight Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 18 hours ago, Andrewbassg said: No. When opened my NA account..... didn't had these numbers. With the others you have a point. What I meant is that it might be an alt account of someone who knew how to FXP to the Mutsuki rather than play any of the previous IJN DDs, as it seems almost certain they believed or someone told them that the previous DDs were not worth playing (which is very wrong). This player has been doing matches for a bit and is not an account with no battles to show for progression. That doesn't mean it -is- an alt account, isn't a bot, or is someone with a physical or mental impairment being aided by another, or is simply a child who is in the game to be with friends without having any aptitude for it. Without more information, many possibilities have about equal probability. The only thing we can say for certain is that the data shows this player is a Battleship main who uses FXP on the tech tree, plays very poorly, has little or no experience in ship types other than BBs, and has a little over a 1200 battles in the game, and is currently an active account (they put in about 170 battles since the screenshot), and this account is two weeks old. Some things can be surmised by those facts, but unless an avenue of confirmation exists, we won't be able to do better than that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 21 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said: Jingles even featured a blind girl playing (with help). I saw that! IIRC she wasn't really playing so much as making the critical decisions (go left, go right, target this, angle to that etc.) and holding the tactical plot in her head, while her sighted friends kept her updated and did the shooting for her. It's an impressive feat, very much akin to playing blindfold chess except the other side's pieces are moving in real time. Botting is like p0rn0graphy - you know it when you see it. Garbage play is garbage play, but even then it's possible to tell the difference between a truly awful, badly inexperienced or handicapped player who is genuinely striving to their limit and a troll who doesn't give a F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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