What's wrong with players? Like really

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

5 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

But I disagree that there is no skill in wows. It is hampered by Wedgie;s own actions/preferences, but there is skill in wows.

Exactly.

The RNG in this game is like the gutter in bowling. Some games it's narrow, some games it's wide...and some games WG puts in the bumpers.

Good players can still get results when hampered...but their options for success get limited.

[palestreamer]

There is skill in WoWs. For fun I found the stats of John_the_ruthless. This guy knows what he is doing.

 

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, Kruzenstern said:

Probability theory is exactly why WR is a significant measure of someones skill. That you cite it as an argument for the opposite makes your statements even more ridiculous.

No 🙂. WR is an indicator of someone's skill, not a measurement of someone's skill, exactly because of said theory. And a couple of other things

There is no reliable tool to measure skill in wows. There are several indicators, however.

 

 

Edited April 2 by Andrewbassg

[Justin_Simpleton]

5 minutes ago, palestreamer said:

There is skill in WoWs. For fun I found the stats of John_the_ruthless. This guy knows what he is doing.

I think I helped him with those kill stats.

[Frostbow]

2 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

Probability theory.

In less than 24 hours, @Navalpride33 has gone from:

1. OP's post needed 'some meat' because there are no submarines in the game the OP listed
2. Players have asked WG for 'more boom! more explosions! more penetrations!'
3. World of Warships is not a skill oriented game
4. Pressing W and pressing the fire button is all a player needs to win
5. No skill involved to delete ships at high tiers
6. We have Melatonin CVs
7. Achievements in the game do not require skill to achieve them 
8. All the skill needed to play World of Warships is just press W and fire button
9. Tier 8 Soviet BB Borodino with its radar is OP, and hence, can never be countered by Tier 6 DDs
10. The skills of the ship, not the player, ultimately is greater than humans
11. Stats in World of Warships are for trophy purposes only
12. Everyone has a right to an opinion in WOWS, even if its misguided or distorted
13. Your attempt to psychoanalyze will not change how players have been misusing WOWS trophy stats
14. There is no such thing as angling your ship in WOWs
15. There's no skills in WOWS
16. You do not need skills to excel in WOWS
17. Hugging an island is your best recourse in most situations, and that is how the game is played
18. Skills do not get you a Kraken, BEGGING does.
19. Begging is an art skill in WOWS
20. There's no skills in WOWS...therefore, the only skills is TEAM BASED
21. Math is simple for EU students, not for Americans 
22. Probability theory
23. Its pretty messed up.
24. Let Jingles be your guide

Never have I seen such convoluted, contradicting reasoning.

Either @Navalpride33 is a walking April Fool's Day or is someone deliberately peddling disinformation to grief unsuspecting players in World of Warships.

I rest my case.

[Andrewbassg]

21 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

• Skills do not get you a Kraken, BEGGING does.

- "Pls let me have a Kraken!!

-" Denied!!"

Also

21 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

• Begging is an art skill in WOWS

-"Pls Dd go to cap B!!"

-"Don't tell me what to do!!"

21 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

I rest my case.

I think it is more about people having aversion against other people using whatnots, to assert non existing superiority and/or refuse to acknowledge other's viewpoints legitimacy.

 

Edited April 2 by Andrewbassg

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I have also observed that when I come back from a business trip, I get better MM and RNG.

Those who have been away from the game for a while get preferential performance.

It's one of the reasons I think WG Riggs it's RNG, not to mess with win rate...but to maintain customer engagement.

Another example is the first game in a newly purchased ship RNG is often better than you will get normally. A bit of psychological boost to reward you for spending...so you will spend again.

That's not necessarily the impact of what I call "influencing"  but, like I said before, Wedgie;s RNG is not "true" RNG, but % based RNG. This kind of RNG needs a database to properly function, otherwise the more extreme results are more prevalent. And as such databases needs space.....it will get resetted quite periodically. 

Also given that most combat values are given in % is a safe bet to make ( it will skip one step at every calculus, ergo less server usage)

Edited April 2 by Andrewbassg

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 hour ago, pepe_trueno said:

good players can to some degree compensate RNG, bad teams and asymmetrical combat with their skill to be more effective but at the end of the day even the best player wont be able to do much when RNG and MM decide to go wild.

 

This is an argument I buy when it comes to the definitions of a good, i.e., a skilled player. A good player has the skills to adjust his game play when needed under unfavorable conditions, be that due to RNG, bad team play, MM, or any other reason.

A bad, or 'below average' player typically cannot make such adjustments. Like myself, they tend to play by rote and at best can react in situations where things go wrong.

[Admiral_Karasu]

As far as the stuff @Navalpride33 says about there being no skill in WoWS, I can agree to the point that the way WG has set up the game to a degree negates the player skills in favor of RNG. Take gunnery, for instance. You could theoretically learn to compute the correct lead, bearing, target course and all the relevant factors and incorporate them into your game play... and fail miserably due to RNG.

[torino2dc]

1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Don't go around calling others out however for not trusting WG and thinking they do bad things we don't know about/can actually prove.

I have no problem with the fact that you don't trust WG. What I do have a problem with is the tendency of this forum to entertain conspiracy theories and eschew fact-based discussion. I view unsubstantiated accusations as contributing to this atmosphere, and therefore will push back on it.

[OT2_2]

I surely don't deny that skill, experience etc. are major factors ingame, but it's absolutely irritating and annoying to be back on the losing street, steam rolls of worst kind without anything (!) I could do about it. I'm going to stop playing randoms in three or frour days until MM, RNG and luck are stabilized again. WG is doing nothing but making the game a horror experience at times, and all the useless bla, bla in this thread won't change that. 

Edited April 2 by OT2_2

[clammboy]

3 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Why though? There are two teams in every battle, why do the bad players lose more compared to the good players unless ... ?

I think that good players win more then bad players because they can make average players better by taking out threats and doing the small things that make it easier for us to stay alive and help out.

But I really think the deciding factor is that the team with the most good players on it usually wins. One great player can carry but when he gets help from other good players it's bad news for you depending on which team there on.

Edited April 2 by clammboy

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

32 minutes ago, torino2dc said:

I have no problem with the fact that you don't trust WG. What I do have a problem with is the tendency of this forum to entertain conspiracy theories and eschew fact-based discussion. I view unsubstantiated accusations as contributing to this atmosphere, and therefore will push back on it.

I find it amusing that expecting an unregulated casino to behave on the edge of the law and ethics is a 'conspiracy theory' and 'not fact based'.

That's hilarious.

FYI, it is a conspiracy theory and not fact based to assume WG is behaving completely transparently and legally.

Unfortunately, we have literal years worth of experience with WG behaving poorly.

That's the sad reality of the legacy of WG behavior and leadership.

[Navalpride33]

2 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

But I disagree that there is no skill in wows.

So far... There's no stat to agree with you...

I mean look.. Whatever stats currently are for trophy use only. Not as an indicator of skill, nor as a measurement of skill.

Other then, regular things to play the game. There's nothing to compile stat wise..

But yet to many people misuse the trophy stats. To fit a made up narrative.

Edited April 2 by Navalpride33

[Andrewbassg]

5 minutes ago, clammboy said:

I think that good players win more then bad players because they can make average players better

Yes, this aspect is a VERY underrated one. Playing with good players is an experience in itself. Seeing things first hand and also one is compelled to do his level best is one of the best ways to enhance one's skill . Many times the resolve, the  willingness makes all the difference in the world. 

I vividly recall seeing farm_ fresh_eggs making an A1 run in KW for the first time (waay back). 

Divving up with NOCAP was another such  experience for me . There were battles where ended up higher on the board than them  (they even made jokes about it) but  not for a second started to "imagine" things that are not there 🙂.

There are many uni's who offer Phd;s in arts. Than there is Berkeley and Juilliard

[Navalpride33]

1 hour ago, Frostbow said:

In less than 24 hours, @Navalpride33 has gone from:

1. OP's post needed 'some meat' because there are no submarines in the game the OP listed
2. Players have asked WG for 'more boom! more explosions! more penetrations!'
3. World of Warships is not a skill oriented game
4. Pressing W and pressing the fire button is all a player needs to win
5. No skill involved to delete ships at high tiers
6. We have Melatonin CVs
7. Achievements in the game do not require skill to achieve them 
8. All the skill needed to play World of Warships is just press W and fire button
9. Tier 8 Soviet BB Borodino with its radar is OP, and hence, can never be countered by Tier 6 DDs
10. The skills of the ship, not the player, ultimately is greater than humans
11. Stats in World of Warships are for trophy purposes only
12. Everyone has a right to an opinion in WOWS, even if its misguided or distorted
13. Your attempt to psychoanalyze will not change how players have been misusing WOWS trophy stats
14. There is no such thing as angling your ship in WOWs
15. There's no skills in WOWS
16. You do not need skills to excel in WOWS
17. Hugging an island is your best recourse in most situations, and that is how the game is played
18. Skills do not get you a Kraken, BEGGING does.
19. Begging is an art skill in WOWS
20. There's no skills in WOWS...therefore, the only skills is TEAM BASED
21. Math is simple for EU students, not for Americans 
22. Probability theory
23. Its pretty messed up.
24. Let Jingles be your guide

Never have I seen such convoluted, contradicting reasoning.

Either @Navalpride33 is a walking April Fool's Day or is someone deliberately peddling disinformation to grief unsuspecting players in World of Warships.

I rest my case.

If all you got is to list everything to take it out of context... Im going to assume. You have no argument to the original topic... There's no skills in WOWS.. WOWS doesnt have any stat to indicate skill.

Friendly reminder... Being a lawyer is one of the dirtiest professions.. I recommend to stay clean as much as possible 🤣

Edited April 2 by Navalpride33

[Asym]

9 hours ago, Frostbow said:

In my experience it is not an endless stream of terrible matches. 

And I would like to point out that a match may be a stomp, but you are on the winning side—this has happened to me a lot of times, and I am certain other players have also experienced amazing winning streaks.

I am never on the winning side.  Even though, I am in the top three scores of the losing team stomp....  Nor, in Ranked.  My stats line up with less skilled player stats so........it's fate to be an eternal stompee...  Ergo, I do not ever play PVP intentionally.  Not even Clan Battles.....too many losses and no control...

[AdmiralThunder]

27 minutes ago, torino2dc said:

I have no problem with the fact that you don't trust WG. What I do have a problem with is the tendency of this forum to entertain conspiracy theories and eschew fact-based discussion. I view unsubstantiated accusations as contributing to this atmosphere, and therefore will push back on it.

I have a right to express my opinion and I presented it as such; not a fact. It’s fine if you disagree with my or anyone else’s opinion but the tone you take is uncalled for. Let’s agree to disagree and move on.

[Andrewbassg]

23 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

But yet to many people misuse the trophy stats.

That's true, however really good players and sports rarely do that, as in wows, as IRL. Still....it is their achievement.

23 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Not as an indicator

We gonna disagree on that. While I object to present stats as a measurement  (because of their inaccuracy) I do not as an indicator. Anything past 55% is an indicator of a reasonably good player, tho it doesn't mean that he is a skilled player. But past 60 ......it is.

And there is also personal assesment and judgement. There is skill in wows.

Edited April 2 by Andrewbassg

[Admiral_Karasu]

35 minutes ago, clammboy said:

I think that good players win more then bad players because they can make average players better by taking out threats and doing the small things that make it easier for us to stay alive and help out.

But I really think the deciding factor is that the team with the most good players on it usually wins. One great player can carry but when he gets help from other good players it's bad news for you depending on which team there on.

This sounds plausible, but then it would still have to occur in more than 50 percent of the battles if that is the explanation. Remember, we talk about WR as indicating if a player wins or loses more than half of their battles, but the problem remains that no player ever wins or loses anything, it's the teams that win or lose. Meaning, that a below 50% player ends up more often on the losing team, and the over 50% player ends up more often on the winning team. What explanation is there for this? Which is the deciding factor in all this?

@torino2dc Would you like to tackle this anomaly?

[Asym]

9 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Another thing, bad players lose more compared to good players. It's really simple.

And, that means we can't keep players in PVP because..........there's no way out !  No one knows our game's exact stats in terms of Veteran players skill....   But, mature game almost always end up an 20/80 (approximately) skill split around year 6 or so of the game....  (it's when the Corporation realizes it can't financially sustain new content or the vision statement's future plans - they were too vast and expensive...)

New player versus 6 or more years trained veteran players.  Stalled population because the new players don't stay....  This game really started to eat their own at the Cruiser Line Split:  when,  Divisions of tier 7 radar ships invaded tiers 5 and 6 in Barney level division seal clubbing.  That's when I left PVP.....and, this great game imploded.

I'm only here to record what "happens next...."   New gaming students are taught Game History and examples are needed so as to satisfy Santayana's "Life of Reason" admonition:  "that those whom don't remember the past will repeat it...." 

[Asym]

8 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

This sounds plausible, but then it would still have to occur in more than 50 percent of the battles if that is the explanation. Remember, we talk about WR as indicating if a player wins or loses more than half of their battles, but the problem remains that no player ever wins or loses anything, it's the teams that win or lose. Meaning, that a below 50% player ends up more often on the losing team, and the over 50% player ends up more often on the winning team. What explanation is there for this? Which is the deciding factor in all this?

@torino2dc Would you like to tackle this anomaly?

Ah, here we are........  Here I am ^^^                         Here you are    ^^^^^    

 From  ^^^                             to                                        here  ^^^^^ are the stompee's.   Any other questions?

Stomps are a symptom of a graph just like this.   The game chases off all of the 45 -49% players into PVE.....  So, there simply aren't enough "average players" and that leaves Veterans versus Noobs....  STOMP.

[Navalpride33]

17 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

That's true, however really good players and sports rarely do that, as in wows, as IRL.

We gonna disagree on that. While I object to present stats as a measurement  (because of their inaccuracy) I do not as an indicator. Anything past 55% is an indicator of a reasonably good player, tho it doesn't mean that he is a skilled player. But past 60 ......it is.

And there is also personal assesment and judgement. There is skill in wows.

I just dont see from a stats POV.. I don''t think there's an indicator or a correct measurement of caliber of a player..

This is the reason WOWS is not skill based. Yes as I stated in a previous post, anyone can create a set of stats to try and guess.. Then, its an opinion generated result. In that result, there will be a large deviation.

That's how I see it.. I can see why WG didn't wanted to go into defining stats to a set of skills. Just use stats for trophy purposes.

Edited April 2 by Navalpride33

[Admiral_Karasu]

6 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

I just dont see from a stats POV.. I don''t think there's an indicator or a correct measurement of caliber of a player..

 

Not for us to see, nothing we can access, but we don't know what information WG is able to gather and process about player performance and how they make use of such intelligence.

[Navalpride33]

3 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Not for us to see, nothing we can access, but we don't know what information WG is able to gather and process about player performance and how they make use of such intelligence.

You know, I can''t speculate 🤣

 I can only use data I can analyze.

Unfortunately lol.