Why is the "Brawl" still misleadingly advertised by WG as "skill based" ?

[Zysyss]

It is pretty much a reflection of what random battles and ranked battles are like, even in high tiers. Mostly red and yellow stats players. 

[Navalpride33]

Nothing in WOWS is "skill-based. "

Never has, never will.

Any illusion of the player to suggest WOWS is skill based is only fooling himself...

If you what a skill-based game... WOWS is not it...

[Aethervox]

6 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Why is the "Brawl" still misleadingly advertised by WG as "skill based"

... because we all know what Wedgie means by 'skill based' &, ofc, Wedgie has a completely different interpretation of the english phrases they use. 😁 (YW)

[Admiral_Karasu]

It's not misleading, it seems to be true. Just had a round myself. The team I got matched with wasn't... stellar. You can see I was less effective than the red team top player, and I was the best of the bunch on my team. Fortunately for us, they let us take both caps, for whatever reason, and after I got sunk we still had the other DD in the game and snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

 

[Andrewbassg]

8 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Why is the "Brawl" still misleadingly advertised by WG as "skill based" when there are just 10-or-so victories needed to be "top" regardless of WinRate and number of games played in the "Brawl"?

Well....you know how you can tell that Wedgie is talkin' bull, right?

 

Hint his mouth does a .... movement 

[Andrewbassg]

13 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

It's not misleading,

Ofc. Its just a slight mrs communication. I mean, between them and....... the rest of the world......

A is A just for us. They actually meant B. 

Edited March 27 by Andrewbassg

[thornzero]

Many people gripe about the match making and at some point you would think that the largest gripes would get some attention. [Sub griping got some attention. CV griping is getting some attention. Etc.] [Keeping in mind that some people just love to complain and over nothing also.]

I would say be careful what you wish for. Ever since the sub changes I noticed it is taking more effort on my part to actually kill subs when before I thought I was killing my fair share. [In mid tiers not high tiers, that is a different game, one I am not playing often.]

I think the MM is okay. I also think WG also thinks it is okay. For reasons.

MM wr or average damage is not a definitive predictor of wins.

While some players can predict the opponent's intent and action, it is not definitive every single time.

Average players will generally win 5o% of the time but the overall performance is actually lower than 5o%.

It only takes 2-3 excellent players [that are having a good game] to influence a win. [Even good players have bad games.]

There are teams getting rolled but it is not every game at least based on what I've observed. Sometimes the games are down to the wire in the last seconds. Many of the matches could go either way all the way until the bitter end.

 

So when you see things like: 'best 1ooo bxp co-op' or 'greatest achievement of the day' or 'best match of the day' I wonder how did the rest of your day / morning / evening / week-end go? The reason is, if you are 6o% unicum you still lost 4 out of 1o matches. You may have carried, and you might have got carried. But if you played hard all day / morning / evening, etc. you are going to have at least one stellar performance.

The one match whether it is a win or a loss, is still not a sample.

What was your results this week-end or this week? Did you manage to fight over 5o% for the day? If you lost 5 matches in a row when was the last time you won 5 matches in a row?

Narrowing our thinking to one match is not going to provide enough information for any player.

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, thornzero said:

....

WR is completely meaningless as a metric, regarding player perf in a team game. Especially in an asymmetrically balanced, highly RNG'd game, as is Wows.

Otherwise.....yes we know that Wedgie is absolutely incapable, more so, also unwilling to actually improve the game. They want dollar, not what we want. Their interests and the player's interests are fundamentally different. Not incompatible, but in order that the differing interests to converge..... it takes effort. And work. And dedication.

And.....they don't want to work.

Edited March 27 by Andrewbassg

[thornzero]

4 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

WR is completely meaningless as a metric, regarding player perf in a team game. Especially in an asymmetrically balanced, highly RNG'd game, as is Wows.

Otherwise.....yes we know that Wedgie is absolutely incapable, more so, also unwilling to actually improve the game. They want dollar, not what we want. Their interests and the player's interests are fundamentally different. Not incompatible, but in order that the differing interests to converge..... it takes effort. And work. And dedication.

And.....they don't want to work.

I reckon its not meaningless. If I am ever to get into a good clan, its gonna take a better wr [along with other criteria like experience in T 1o].

High RNG is not exclusive and I dare say it is uniform in that the enemy is subject as much as the ally.

But this conversation isn't solely about wr and neither were my commentary. 

No one produced any WG publication except an answer on a defunct forum that no longer exists.

WG has/had internal problems that are not fully sorted yet. [and yet the show continues with various updates and fixes]

People are focused on one match which is not a sample.

[And, I'm getting laughed at or bored icons - but I have been paying attention and I am swimming upstream for a reason.]

I would also add that many of the bread and butter players that keep the queue full are free to play. Which would pit f2p vs. pay to win but WG listens to all the feedback and as far as I've seen doesn't reject the opinions of free players. Which in a way I might say there is more room to complain if your paying actual money. 

AND the griping on the wow official twitch stream is something to behold. People want it all for nothing while some players are putting in the effort.

 

 

[Andrewbassg]

6 minutes ago, thornzero said:

I reckon its not meaningless.

Yes it is. As far as WR is concerned  doesn't matter how many times I'm first on the losing team. And of which actions I have exactly zero control. Nor of his composition, both player's wise and ship wise. Is Leone a dd? Is T-61 also a dd? Is there a requirement that players  should have fully upgraded ship to enter  a PvP battle? So..... yeah....

 

14 minutes ago, thornzero said:

High RNG is not exclusive and I dare say it is uniform in that the enemy is subject as much as the ally.

 

Again, as above.

16 minutes ago, thornzero said:

WG has/had internal problems that are not fully sorted yet. [and yet the show continues with various updates and fixes]

 

Ofc. Moneyz must be made. Again for them this is a commercial activity, aka for profit.  We want to have fun. So.....

 

19 minutes ago, thornzero said:

[And, I'm getting laughed at or bored icons - but I have been paying attention and I am swimming upstream for a reason.]

 

The lol was for this....

2 hours ago, thornzero said:

I would say be careful what you wish for. Ever since the sub changes I noticed it is taking more effort on my part to actually kill subs when before I thought I was killing my fair share. [In mid tiers not high tiers, that is a different game, one I am not playing often.]

22 minutes ago, thornzero said:

I would also add that many of the bread and butter players that keep the queue full are free to play. Which would pit f2p vs. pay to win but WG listens to all the feedback and as far as I've seen doesn't reject the opinions of free players. Which in a way I might say there is more room to complain if your paying actual money. 

 

No they don't. But that's right, equally don't.

As for f2p.... IF they would do the things which I consider necessary to improve the game ....I would support them.

 

 

 

[thornzero]

Look, winning is in the players control. You've got a losing attitude. No one cares how many times you were the first loser.

I was at 41% in September and now at 47% with 23oo matches. You have over 5k matches at over 48% and you can't get over the hump? Probably not with over 5,ooo matches. That's a long row to hoe my friend.

But you are just a complainer. A griper. And WG filters the extent of that.

I truly like the game and since I've focused on being a better player I am becoming a better player. So have a nice night.

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

37 minutes ago, thornzero said:

High RNG is not exclusive and I dare say it is uniform in that the enemy is subject as much as the ally.

Unproven assumption.

37 minutes ago, thornzero said:

No one produced any WG publication except an answer on a defunct forum that no longer exists.

Even if WG communicated it, we would still need to verify that the communication was not a falsehood...

38 minutes ago, thornzero said:

People are focused on one match which is not a sample.

[And, I'm getting laughed at or bored icons - but I have been paying attention and I am swimming upstream for a reason.]

No, you are getting bored icons because of the above kind of argumentation.

Who are the 'people' above?

Mostly it's the strawman in your head making those arguments.

Deal directly with the folks you are talking with...don't retreat into vague generalities like this comment above.

39 minutes ago, thornzero said:

AND the griping on the wow official twitch stream is something to behold. People want it all for nothing while some players are putting in the effort.

All WG platforms are carefully curated to allow only those who WG wants to speak speak...

...fascinating that WG only allows drivel griping, isn't it?

Actual reasonable requests usually get bans handed out.

[thornzero]

You really think Random is not Random for the ally and the enemy? Well because RNG did this one time and did that another time, its one sided and against me?

HA HA HA wow and I'm the idiot.

Good grief.

[Andrewbassg]

20 minutes ago, thornzero said:

Look, winning is in the players control. You've got a losing attitude. No one cares how many times you were the first loser.

Oh no I don't. I'm laying down facts. It doesn't mean that I don't try to win every single time. I don't even run MM tools. You  got the wrong impression.

20 minutes ago, thornzero said:

I was at 41% in September and now at 47% with 23oo matches. You have over 5k matches at over 48% and you can't get over the hump? Probably not with over 5,ooo matches. That's a long row to hoe my friend.

 

Good for you!!. For me IDGAFF about that,for the reasons I mentioned. To be clear, I DON"T want to spoil your fun.

Still... if you'd had a proper look you would have seen that I play very few randoms.  Ranked, brawls, speciai modes and ops.

20 minutes ago, thornzero said:

But you are just a complainer. A griper. And WG filters the extent of that.

 

  Yet they listened to me when reintroduced ops and class specific brawls. Yep Sub_O announced those quoting me 

20 minutes ago, thornzero said:

I truly like the game

That has nothing to do with the possibility that the game could be better. A LOT better. What Wedgie does and what is the game are two different, tho not necessarily separate things.

20 minutes ago, thornzero said:

So have a nice night.

 

The same to you.

Edited March 27 by Andrewbassg

[thornzero]

4 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

That has nothing to do with the possibility that the game could be better. A LOT better. What Wedgie does and what is the game are two different, tho not necessarily separate things.

Most of my problems with the game were my problems I had to sort out for myself. They were not other people's problems or rng problems or something or someone to blame. But I do not think dissenting opinions should be ignored.

[Andrewbassg]

14 minutes ago, thornzero said:

But I do not think dissenting opinions should be ignored.

Sadly,both for them and for us, Wedgie thinks otherwise.

 

As for the  rest most of people here( if not all)  are striving to get better. But also most of them would say that the game was better and is not gettng better.

Edited March 27 by Andrewbassg

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, thornzero said:

Ever since the sub changes I noticed it is taking more effort on my part to actually kill subs

Ever since the changes, while I've played my Submarines, I've noticed that ships are surviving what would have been lethal torpedo hits or salvos of hits.
They get tickled for a few thousand points of damage from 4 to 6 torpedoes because they're inside the torpedo's "nerf zone".

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, thornzero said:

If I am ever to get into a good clan, its gonna take a better wr [along with other criteria like experience in T 1o].

Create your own Clan.  Problem solved.  😉 

 

[Type_93]

2 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

WR is completely meaningless as a metric, regarding player perf in a team game. Especially in an asymmetrically balanced, highly RNG'd game, as is Wows.

When you’re wrong, you’re boldly wrong. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 hour ago, thornzero said:

You really think Random is not Random for the ally and the enemy? Well because RNG did this one time and did that another time, its one sided and against me?

HA HA HA wow and I'm the idiot.

Good grief.

That's an unproven assumption.

The game has incentives not to be an actual level playing field...we hope it is, but it may not be.

Hope is no substitute for actual data or first principles knowledge.

Edited March 27 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[Andrewbassg]

11 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

When you’re wrong, you’re boldly wrong. 

You never were carried? 

[thornzero]

2 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

That's an unproven assumption.

The game has incentives not to be an actual level playing field...we hope it is, but it may not be.

Hope is no substitute for actual data or first principles knowledge.

Well it is clear that it is not an actual, level, playing field with the diversity of 6oo+ ships, configurations, signals, captain skills, and players.

But the players experiences with shells striking a ship [or not] are indeed random for the ally and the enemy.

Further, there are decisions to make whether or not to avoid detonation. That random shell can be null with the appropriate signal.

In addition, playing well doesn't guarantee a win [errs on the side of more wins than less] while having a bad game doesn't guarantee a loss [errs on the side of more losses].

So while WG is hush on what random actually is - there are guys playing at 6o% plus that are not getting a pass on 'always good' rng and bad players 3o/4o% are not victims of 'always bad' rng.

So in a way, it is not unproven. These excellent players are not always on the 'good' team. Especially the fact that 2 or 3 good players out of 7 to 12 on a team can carry.

[Zysyss]

7 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

Nothing in WOWS is "skill-based. "

Never has, never will.

Any illusion of the player to suggest WOWS is skill based is only fooling himself...

If you what a skill-based game... WOWS is not it...

There is plenty of skill in this game. Sadly, a good share of the player base is either incapable of using it or refuses to learn it. 

3 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

WR is completely meaningless as a metric, regarding player perf in a team game. 

You could not be more wrong. It is not the only metric/stat we look at though. 

Edited March 28 by Zysyss

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 hour ago, thornzero said:

But the players experiences with shells striking a ship [or not] are indeed random for the ally and the enemy.

Not true.

The shells follow a probability distribution...they are not random.

Furthermore, we know that there are ship modules that modify this behavior...so that's not a level playing field either.

We also merely assume that equivalently equipped same ships will have the same probability distribution...but this is an unproven assumption.

1 hour ago, thornzero said:

So in a way, it is not unproven. These excellent players are not always on the 'good' team. Especially the fact that 2 or 3 good players out of 7 to 12 on a team can carry.

Irrelevant to whether the assertion is proven or not.

Don't hand wave away core problems with your thought process and expect people to just accept flawed reasoning.

[Andrewbassg]

7 hours ago, Zysyss said:

You could not be more wrong

Nope. One cannot use a  simple linear  metric to accurately depict or predict nonlinear behaviour (coz human performance is nonlinear), in a highly nonlinear and randomised environment.  (Hint Asimov was a genius). Not to mention, that the distribution curve is becoming "asymmetric"and more inaccurate  in the negative realm (treating 50% as zero)

Generally, people ( with "positive" WR that is) take issue with these "simple" facts, while ignoring that the more positive is the WR, the more accurate the prediction is becoming, while still not accurately depicting player performance and game knowledge

 

That's why social sciences will never become an exact science and if not paired with psychology is doomed to fail.

7 hours ago, Zysyss said:

It is not the only metric/stat we look at thoug

Well ..... you need more than 7 🙂  

Hint:

 

Edited March 28 by Andrewbassg