United States secondary Battleship branch: Rollin' n' Trollin'

[That WoT Player]

This proposal is dedicated to a particular secondary build enthusiast, Mailor Soon, and I’ve moved this ahead of updating my Scout Cruiser thread because of all the crap that just happened over in California (and this took so long we had our own trouble over here in Florida). Hope everyone reading this is ok. 

 

The genesis of this line of ships came from 2 places: my own hobby-research on warships; and seeing other people enjoy secondary focused ships, but the options are currently kinda limited. Seeing that there was a desire, and that I had the resources to possibly fulfill that desire, I decided to compile some designs and breathe a little life and passion into them, and Voila! A line of 5 United States tech tree (and one super) ships specialized towards their smaller guns. The line has just as much in common with Georgia as Massachusetts: having the strong secondaries of both but also the speed boost and quick repair party of Georgia. The features of the line are long range, SAP secondaries, with engine boost being available from the first ship, and radar starting at tier 8 (competing with engine boost when present), and generally a slight speed increase over the normal US “standard” line, though results may vary. Strong AA is also common through the line (as should be expected of USN ships), with above average hit points for their tier and lower detectability ranges should definitely help with survivability, but main gun DPM is reduced due to having fewer barrels, longer reloads, and/or smaller guns than their peers. I’ve also paid some attention to the rudder shift, as that is important to getting the maximum number of secondaries on target, but it was not my primary (nor even secondary) focus. 

 

 

Tier 6 USS New Hampshire

(S-584-001) BB-36 Scheme A

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 3 inch + 2 inch splinter deck  HP: 49,700	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 3 inch + 2 inch splinter deck HP: 54,100
Armament:	Main guns: 4x twin 14-inch/45 Mk.1 guns (28 second reload, 15.1 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,300 dmg, 792 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    Secondary: 8x 5-inch/25 Mk.19 guns (4 second reload, 5.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    Secondary: 8x 5-inch/51 Mk.13 guns (7 second reload, 5.6 km range) 5-inch Common Mk.15 [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    Anti-Air: 120 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range	Main guns: 4x twin 14-inch/45 Mk.1 guns (28 second reload, 16.6 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,300 dmg, 792 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    Secondary: 8x 5-inch/25 Mk.19 guns (4 second reload, 5.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   Secondary: 8x 5-inch/51 Mk.13 guns (7 second reload 5.6 km range)  5-inch Common Mk.15 [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    Anti-Air: 214 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range
Hull:	20 knots  16.2 second rudder shift 13.4 km detection range	22 knots 12.7 second rudder shift 13.4 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down)

 

The line begins via a split off from the New York, and the unifying feature of the branch should be clear: generally poor main guns per tier but very powerful secondaries. Don’t be fooled by the somewhat quick main battery reload, she has less DPM than New York and she’s a tier higher. Like LittleWhiteMouse suggested when reviewing WeeVee ‘44, it is probably best to play these boats like normal battleships during the early part of the match and begin brawling later, once enemy ships have been sunk and health pools reduced. This particular ship is a modified and updated version of the first draft design of the Nevada class, only missing 0.5 inches of belt and with 1 knot extra speed. 

 

 

Tier 7 USS Mississippi 

Late war upgrades

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.5 inch + 2.75 inch splinter deck  HP: 53,900	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.5 inch + 2.75 inch splinter deck HP: 60,500
Armament:	Main guns: 4x triple 14-inch/50 Mk.11 guns (36 second reload, 15.8 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,500 dmg, 823 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    2) Secondary: 8x 5-inch/25 Mk.19 guns (4 second reload, 6.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   3) Secondary: 8x 5-inch/51 Mk.13 guns (7 second reload, 6.3 km range) 5-inch Common Mk.15 [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    4) Anti-Air: 199 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range	Main guns: 4x triple 14-inch/50 Mk.11 guns (36 second reload, 17.4 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,500 dmg, 823 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    2) Secondary: 16x 5-inch/25 Mk.27 guns (3.7 second reload, 6.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   3) Anti-Air: 362 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range
Hull:	19.5 knots  17.9 second rudder shift 14.1 km detection range	21.6 knots 13.9 second rudder shift 14.1 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down)

 

The only built in steel ship of the branch, Mississippi has a unique late war gun upgrade where she doubled her 5 inch 25 armament instead of receiving 5 inch 38s like almost every other surviving battleship. Her medium and light AA were also increased significantly. Unfortunately, due to the power of her secondaries, I felt it necessary to lengthen her reload time above that of California or New Mexico, both of which are uncomfortably bad, but that’s the price I believe had to be paid for these killer 5 inch SAP shooters. I also couldn’t justify increasing her speed any more than I did, as this was a ship laid in steel and we know her characteristics quite well, and I’m not the person to just rewrite history for the sake of a game. Instead I ramped up her health slightly more than I originally had it, and she still has the engine boost for some compensation. This is, however, the last battleship of the branch with a split secondary battery, and all subsequent ships will have a uniform, dual purpose battery. 

 

 

Tier 8 USS North Dakota 

(Page 236) Battleship Design #2, Sept. 1934 

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.75 inch + 1.5 inch splinter deck  HP: 63,400	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.75 inch + 1.5 inch splinter deck HP: 70,300
Armament:	Main guns: 4x twin 16-inch/45 Mk.5 guns (31 second reload, 18.4 km range)  16-inch AP Mk.5 (12,400 dmg, 768 m/s)  16-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,700 dmg, 36% fire, 68mm)    2) Secondary: 7x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (4 second reload, 7.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 288 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range	Main guns: 4x twin 16-inch/45 Mk.5 guns (31 second reload, 20.2 km range)  16-inch AP Mk.5 (12,400 dmg, 768 m/s)  16-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,700 dmg, 36% fire, 68mm)    2) Secondary: 7x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (4 second reload, 7.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 414 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range
Hull:	24.8 knots  20.7 second rudder shift 15.4 km detection range	26.5 knots 15.4 second rudder shift 15.4 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down) or Surveillance Radar (9 km range, 20 second duration)

 

A battleship design prepared towards the end of the first capital ship building holiday. In spite of the odd number of secondary gun turrets, 5 could shoot to a side due to their unique arrangement, and had large firing arcs. I personally mixed studies 2 and 4 to get a better balance of speed and armor in this proposal, to better fit the rest of the line. This is the first ship with radar, and unlike most ships, it can replace the engine boost rather than the float planes. I decided to give players a choice on what they deem more important: closing the distance to a target / keep up with a fleeting target (a more aggressive approach), or to spot nearby enemies but not being able to effectively give chase against faster ships (to which there are many). 

 

 

Tier 9 USS Rhode island 

(Page 290) BB-57 Preliminary Studies, 1937 

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13 inch sloped + 1.25 inch outer plating Deck: 6 inch + 1.25 inch splinter deck  HP: 71,900	Belt: 13 inch sloped + 1.25 inch outer plating Deck: 6 inch + 1.25 inch splinter deck HP: 82,200
Armament:	Main guns: 3x quad 14-inch/50 Mk.11 guns (27 second reload, 19.2 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,500 dmg, 823 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    2) Secondary: 8x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (3.8 second reload, 8 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 325 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range	Main guns: 3x triple 16-inch/45 Mk.6 guns (31 second reload, 21.1 km range)  16-inch AP Mk.8 (13,100 dmg, 701 m/s)  16-inch HE/HC Mk.13 (5,700 dmg, 36% fire, 68mm)    2) Secondary: 8x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (3.8 second reload, 8 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 432 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range
Hull:	25 knots  23 second rudder shift 15.7 km detection range	26.8 knots 16.9 second rudder shift 15.7 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down) or Surveillance Radar (9 km range, 25 second duration)

 

A collection of design studies leading up to the South Dakota (BB-57) class. Many of the studies had concluded before the escalator clause was enacted, which is why the 14 inch armament is there. I gave it a better reload than any other comparable US gun and added in the good shells (unlike Florida) to hopefully make the stock grind less painful. Just like the previous ship, the secondaries (which are nearly identical to those found on Georgia) are arranged to where 5 can fire to a side. I have a stronger preference for the division flag ship version (the mini picture just above the full ship) as it is more unique, and a gun that high up probably has better firing arcs, but either variant would work. The complex belt design for some of these studies is also included in my table, being similar to that on the real South Dakota but thicker and with a very thick reverse slope / deck slope. 

 

 

Tier 10 USS Michigan 

(Page 308) Design I, April 1938

Characteristics
Survivability:	Belt: 14.75 inch sloped + 1.25 inch outer plating Deck: 5.1 inch + 1.5 inch bomb deck + 0.63 inch splinter deck  HP: 99,200
Armament:	Main guns: 3x triple 18-inch/48 Mk.1 guns (33 second reload, 22.3 km range)  18-inch AP Type B (15,750 dmg, 732 m/s)  18-inch HE Type B (6,450 dmg, 45% fire, 77mm)    2) Secondary: 10x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 Mod guns (3.5 second reload, 8.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 462 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range
Hull:	27 knots  17.6 second rudder shift 16.5 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (15%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down) or Surveillance Radar (9 km range, 30 second duration)

 

A design proceeding the Iowa, mounting 18 inch guns. Unfortunately, there is no picture of this in my book, only the chart (with typos), and a picture I found of someone else's interpretation. She is outwardly similar to Yamato, but she’s a good 60 feet shorter, over an inch less belt armor, and 10,000 tons lighter. As represented, she also has a longer reload and shorter range, but has more health and a better repair party, in addition to either a strong speed boost or radar. 

 

 

Super Ship USS Virginia

(Page 240) Maximum Battleship, Nov 1934

Characteristics
Survivability:	Belt: 16 inch  Deck: 6.5 inch + 1.5 inch splinter deck  HP: 121,900
Armament:	1) Main guns: 4x twin 20-inch/45 Mk.1 guns (36 second reload, 23.1 km range)  20-inch AP Type A (19,800 dmg, 747 m/s)  20-inch HE Type A (7,600 dmg, 45% fire, 85mm)    2) Secondary: 10x twin 5-inch/54 Mk.41 Mod guns (3.3 second reload, 8.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.42 Mod [SAP] (2,400 dmg, 44mm)   3) Anti-Air: 470 continuous dmg, 6 km max range
Hull:	26.2 knots  18.7 second rudder shift 17.8 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Surveillance Radar (10 km range, 30 second duration)    Combat Instruction “Press the Advantage:” reduces secondary battery reload by 25% and increases ship speed by 15% after 10 main battery hits. 40 second duration

 

A draft, similar to the Tillman designs, displaying the largest and most powerful ship that could be built in the US at the time. She mounts colossal 20 inch guns as well as 10 twin 5 inch 54s in an arrangement that allows 6 turrets to fire to a side, rather than 5. The combat instruction is designed to enhance her ability to rush in guns blazing, with a gatling-like 2.5 second reload for the secondaries and a speed of 30.1 knots while active. 

 

 

Tier 10 Steel ship USS Utah 

(Page 179) Future Battleship, Aug 1919

Characteristics
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.5 inch + 1.25 inch splinter deck  HP: 86,400
Armament:	Main guns: 4x twin 18-inch/48 Mk.1 guns (30 second reload, 20.8 km range)  18-inch AP Type B (15,750 dmg, 732 m/s)  18-inch HE Type B (6,450 dmg, 45% fire, 77mm)    2) Secondary: 6x triple 6 inch/53 Mk.12 guns (8 second reload, 8.3 km range)  6 inch Common Mk.24 [SAP] (3,300 dmg, 42mm)    3) Secondary: 9x 5-inch/25 Mk.27 guns (3.7 second reload, 8.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   4) Anti-Air: 348 continuous dmg, 6.9 km max range
Hull:	26.4 knots  16.7 second rudder shift 15.9 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Exhaust Smoke Generator (40 second duration, 150 second cool down)

 

A concept for a “battleship of the future” mounting dual purpose 5 and 6 inch guns. I wanted to add an extra ship, outside the main line, that could be used for other purposes, and this design looked pretty good to turn into a resource ship. The concept is basically the in-game Minnesota re-gunned with an 18 inch main battery and high elevating 6 inch triple turrets. As a steel ship, I wanted to give it a little pizazz, so it has an exhaust smoke generator in exchange for the planes and speed boost/radar. The strong main and secondary battery also warranted me to reduce her AA efficiency: although it has long range thanks to the 6 inch turrets, most of the damage would be tied up in flak with the lighter anti aircraft guns being early war 1.1 inch and 20mm guns… gotta balance her somehow. 

 

There’s a couple more designs I’ve found, but didn’t add in due to thematic or balancing reasons. I could post them later, and some of them would make for cool premium / freemium ships at tiers 7, 8, and 9, but for now, this is enough for a good first post. What do you think? Is there anything I could improve on with my suggestion: add; take away; rebalance; change? I’m open to discussing new ideas, and trying to refine my own suggestions. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by That WoT Player

[pew_pew_magoo]

There are already 3 US BB lines. We don’t need anymore. Maybe a new US DD line. 
 

For new lines we could use some Dutch submarines, Italian submarines, an Italian torpedo DD line and EU cruisers. 
 

I see a lot players complaining about Russian bias, but US bias is much more wide spread. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

21 minutes ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

There are already 3 US BB lines. We don’t need anymore. Maybe a new US DD line. 
 

For new lines we could use some Dutch submarines, Italian submarines, an Italian torpedo DD line and EU cruisers. 
 

I see a lot players complaining about Russian bias, but US bias is much more wide spread. 

We can always use more ideas. WG won't take a line proposal for anything more than ideas...so don't worry about having to take everything in someone's proposal.

Dutch subs would be nice. Do you have ideas for a line?

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

Is the idea behind the main guns to have them with worse damage per shell, or worse ballistics or penetration performance?

Other than that question, they look interesting...and having the tier 10 be my childhood state gave me a 'ooh, shiny' feeling...

[MBT808]

This is unnecessary largely, we already have a USN secondary sub branch: WV 44, Massachusetts, Georgia, and Ohio.

good effort though, however I think you need to rebalance it a bunch. As in its current state, you essentially make every other USN BB line pointless.

[pew_pew_magoo]

16 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Dutch subs would be nice. Do you have ideas for a line?

Yup. I’d love to see an Italian DD line with long range, medium speed, low detec torps. Give them normal smoke with average guns with SAP. 
 

Or a submarine line with some early form of anti-Ship missile. 
 

Maybe a US DD line like Halford with planes. 
 

A new RN DD line with strong ASW like a large pattern hedgehog launchers. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

22 minutes ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

A new RN DD line with strong ASW like a large pattern hedgehog launchers.

Check out my proposal for a Commonwealth DD line...large pattern depth charge launchers are part of the flavor.

[Asym]

@That WoT Player thanks for the information !

1 hour ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

There are already 3 US BB lines. We don’t need anymore. Maybe a new US DD line.

For new lines we could use some Dutch submarines, Italian submarines, an Italian torpedo DD line and EU cruisers.

I am at the point that the entire game is just about "selling to Whales" (collectors - since I really don't like the "whale" connotation that much)

Yes, they need revenue to continue and, it is true that cloning ships is a lot less expensive that producing world class events !  So, they are taking the cheap route at best because, in the very near future, easy money (loot boxes and progressive sale event with "chance mechanics" may just be banned....)

Personally, I'd like to see our host take a break from Cloning and "fix AA and ASW...."  Spend the money to make Subs and Carriers something other than a cheap way to make money.  If you want them in the game, make them relevant in and of their own right - not OP crap and silliness.....  JMO and many share it.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Asym

[Ensign Cthulhu]

3 hours ago, That WoT Player said:

A collection of design studies leading up to the South Dakota (BB-57) class. Many of the studies had concluded before the escalator clause was enacted, which is why the 14 inch armament is there.

A calibre change as part of the upgrade to the B hull would be... interesting. I suspect WG would choose to handle this as a separate researchable turret module, as per ships like the Friedrich Der Grosse (and Grosser Kurfurst, while she was still tech-tree). 

[invicta2012]

4 hours ago, MBT808 said:

This is unnecessary largely, we already have a USN secondary sub branch: WV 44, Massachusetts, Georgia, and Ohio.

good effort though, however I think you need to rebalance it a bunch. As in its current state, you essentially make every other USN BB line pointless.

There's a prize for anyone who can get WV44 into secondary range, though. 

Not sure about US secondary BBs, tbh. To be effective they probably need to be upgrades of older ships (the original South Dakotas, Lexingtons, and the Tillmann Maximums like Vermont) - higher speed, lighter armour, heavier SP/Casemated guns (probs 152s - we've wrung all the mileage we can out of 127 MK 12 twins, although the single ones have accuracy bonuses). Torps, possilbly, like Constellation? 

[That WoT Player]

2 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

A calibre change as part of the upgrade to the B hull would be... interesting. I suspect WG would choose to handle this as a separate researchable turret module, as per ships like the Friedrich Der Grosse (and Grosser Kurfurst, while she was still tech-tree). 

That was my thought, like monarch (or is it lion?) and FDG. I’m not sure how I confused someone on that; is it because I mixed the main battery with all the other guns that are effected by the hull upgrades? 
 

27 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Not sure about US secondary BBs, tbh. To be effective they probably need to be upgrades of older ships (the original South Dakotas, Lexingtons, and the Tillmann Maximums like Vermont) - higher speed, lighter armour, heavier SP/Casemated guns (probs 152s - we've wrung all the mileage we can out of 127 MK 12 twins, although the single ones have accuracy bonuses). Torps, possilbly, like Constellation? 

That just sounds like a copy of the German battlecruiser line, just in hamburger flavor, which is not what I wanted to do. 

[invicta2012]

6 minutes ago, That WoT Player said:

That just sounds like a copy of the German battlecruiser line, just in hamburger flavor, which is not what I wanted to do. 

I expect not, but it is the problem with Secondary BBs writ large... without significant buffs to gun effectiveness (either with penetration boosts, like the German HE pen rules, or some serious tweaks to RoF/range), 5 inch guns aren't that impressive at higher tiers. You'd need to get into some serious post war schtick (Georgia with Forrest Sherman secondaries) before there's anything worth looking at. 

[Sailor_Moon]

7 hours ago, That WoT Player said:

This proposal is dedicated to a particular secondary build enthusiast, Mailor Soon, and I’ve moved this ahead of updating my Scout Cruiser thread because of all the crap that just happened over in California (and this took so long we had our own trouble over here in Florida). Hope everyone reading this is ok. 

 

The genesis of this line of ships came from 2 places: my own hobby-research on warships; and seeing other people enjoy secondary focused ships, but the options are currently kinda limited. Seeing that there was a desire, and that I had the resources to possibly fulfill that desire, I decided to compile some designs and breathe a little life and passion into them, and Voila! A line of 5 United States tech tree (and one super) ships specialized towards their smaller guns. The line has just as much in common with Georgia as Massachusetts: having the strong secondaries of both but also the speed boost and quick repair party of Georgia. The features of the line are long range, SAP secondaries, with engine boost being available from the first ship, and radar starting at tier 8 (competing with engine boost when present), and generally a slight speed increase over the normal US “standard” line, though results may vary. Strong AA is also common through the line (as should be expected of USN ships), with above average hit points for their tier and lower detectability ranges should definitely help with survivability, but main gun DPM is reduced due to having fewer barrels, longer reloads, and/or smaller guns than their peers. I’ve also paid some attention to the rudder shift, as that is important to getting the maximum number of secondaries on target, but it was not my primary (nor even secondary) focus. 

 

 

Tier 6 USS New Hampshire

(S-584-001) BB-36 Scheme A

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 3 inch + 2 inch splinter deck  HP: 49,700	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 3 inch + 2 inch splinter deck HP: 54,100
Armament:	Main guns: 4x twin 14-inch/45 Mk.1 guns (28 second reload, 15.1 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,300 dmg, 792 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    Secondary: 8x 5-inch/25 Mk.19 guns (4 second reload, 5.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    Secondary: 8x 5-inch/51 Mk.13 guns (7 second reload, 5.6 km range) 5-inch Common Mk.15 [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    Anti-Air: 120 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range	Main guns: 4x twin 14-inch/45 Mk.1 guns (28 second reload, 16.6 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,300 dmg, 792 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    Secondary: 8x 5-inch/25 Mk.19 guns (4 second reload, 5.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   Secondary: 8x 5-inch/51 Mk.13 guns (7 second reload 5.6 km range)  5-inch Common Mk.15 [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    Anti-Air: 214 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range
Hull:	20 knots  16.2 second rudder shift 13.4 km detection range	22 knots 12.7 second rudder shift 13.4 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down)

 

The line begins via a split off from the New York, and the unifying feature of the branch should be clear: generally poor main guns per tier but very powerful secondaries. Don’t be fooled by the somewhat quick main battery reload, she has less DPM than New York and she’s a tier higher. Like LittleWhiteMouse suggested when reviewing WeeVee ‘44, it is probably best to play these boats like normal battleships during the early part of the match and begin brawling later, once enemy ships have been sunk and health pools reduced. This particular ship is a modified and updated version of the first draft design of the Nevada class, only missing 0.5 inches of belt and with 1 knot extra speed. 

 

 

Tier 7 USS Mississippi 

Late war upgrades

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.5 inch + 2.75 inch splinter deck  HP: 53,900	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.5 inch + 2.75 inch splinter deck HP: 60,500
Armament:	Main guns: 4x triple 14-inch/50 Mk.11 guns (36 second reload, 15.8 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,500 dmg, 823 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    2) Secondary: 8x 5-inch/25 Mk.19 guns (4 second reload, 6.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   3) Secondary: 8x 5-inch/51 Mk.13 guns (7 second reload, 6.3 km range) 5-inch Common Mk.15 [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    4) Anti-Air: 199 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range	Main guns: 4x triple 14-inch/50 Mk.11 guns (36 second reload, 17.4 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,500 dmg, 823 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    2) Secondary: 16x 5-inch/25 Mk.27 guns (3.7 second reload, 6.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   3) Anti-Air: 362 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range
Hull:	19.5 knots  17.9 second rudder shift 14.1 km detection range	21.6 knots 13.9 second rudder shift 14.1 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down)

 

The only built in steel ship of the branch, Mississippi has a unique late war gun upgrade where she doubled her 5 inch 25 armament instead of receiving 5 inch 38s like almost every other surviving battleship. Her medium and light AA were also increased significantly. Unfortunately, due to the power of her secondaries, I felt it necessary to lengthen her reload time above that of California or New Mexico, both of which are uncomfortably bad, but that’s the price I believe had to be paid for these killer 5 inch SAP shooters. I also couldn’t justify increasing her speed any more than I did, as this was a ship laid in steel and we know her characteristics quite well, and I’m not the person to just rewrite history for the sake of a game. Instead I ramped up her health slightly more than I originally had it, and she still has the engine boost for some compensation. This is, however, the last battleship of the branch with a split secondary battery, and all subsequent ships will have a uniform, dual purpose battery. 

 

 

Tier 8 USS North Dakota 

(Page 236) Battleship Design #2, Sept. 1934 

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.75 inch + 1.5 inch splinter deck  HP: 63,400	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.75 inch + 1.5 inch splinter deck HP: 70,300
Armament:	Main guns: 4x twin 16-inch/45 Mk.5 guns (31 second reload, 18.4 km range)  16-inch AP Mk.5 (12,400 dmg, 768 m/s)  16-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,700 dmg, 36% fire, 68mm)    2) Secondary: 7x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (4 second reload, 7.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 288 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range	Main guns: 4x twin 16-inch/45 Mk.5 guns (31 second reload, 20.2 km range)  16-inch AP Mk.5 (12,400 dmg, 768 m/s)  16-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,700 dmg, 36% fire, 68mm)    2) Secondary: 7x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (4 second reload, 7.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 414 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range
Hull:	24.8 knots  20.7 second rudder shift 15.4 km detection range	26.5 knots 15.4 second rudder shift 15.4 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down) or Surveillance Radar (9 km range, 20 second duration)

 

A battleship design prepared towards the end of the first capital ship building holiday. In spite of the odd number of secondary gun turrets, 5 could shoot to a side due to their unique arrangement, and had large firing arcs. I personally mixed studies 2 and 4 to get a better balance of speed and armor in this proposal, to better fit the rest of the line. This is the first ship with radar, and unlike most ships, it can replace the engine boost rather than the float planes. I decided to give players a choice on what they deem more important: closing the distance to a target / keep up with a fleeting target (a more aggressive approach), or to spot nearby enemies but not being able to effectively give chase against faster ships (to which there are many). 

 

 

Tier 9 USS Rhode island 

(Page 290) BB-57 Preliminary Studies, 1937 

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13 inch sloped + 1.25 inch outer plating Deck: 6 inch + 1.25 inch splinter deck  HP: 71,900	Belt: 13 inch sloped + 1.25 inch outer plating Deck: 6 inch + 1.25 inch splinter deck HP: 82,200
Armament:	Main guns: 3x quad 14-inch/50 Mk.11 guns (27 second reload, 19.2 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,500 dmg, 823 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    2) Secondary: 8x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (3.8 second reload, 8 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 325 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range	Main guns: 3x triple 16-inch/45 Mk.6 guns (31 second reload, 21.1 km range)  16-inch AP Mk.8 (13,100 dmg, 701 m/s)  16-inch HE/HC Mk.13 (5,700 dmg, 36% fire, 68mm)    2) Secondary: 8x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (3.8 second reload, 8 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 432 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range
Hull:	25 knots  23 second rudder shift 15.7 km detection range	26.8 knots 16.9 second rudder shift 15.7 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down) or Surveillance Radar (9 km range, 25 second duration)

 

A collection of design studies leading up to the South Dakota (BB-57) class. Many of the studies had concluded before the escalator clause was enacted, which is why the 14 inch armament is there. I gave it a better reload than any other comparable US gun and added in the good shells (unlike Florida) to hopefully make the stock grind less painful. Just like the previous ship, the secondaries (which are nearly identical to those found on Georgia) are arranged to where 5 can fire to a side. I have a stronger preference for the division flag ship version (the mini picture just above the full ship) as it is more unique, and a gun that high up probably has better firing arcs, but either variant would work. The complex belt design for some of these studies is also included in my table, being similar to that on the real South Dakota but thicker and with a very thick reverse slope / deck slope. 

 

 

Tier 10 USS Michigan 

(Page 308) Design I, April 1938

Characteristics
Survivability:	Belt: 14.75 inch sloped + 1.25 inch outer plating Deck: 5.1 inch + 1.5 inch bomb deck + 0.63 inch splinter deck  HP: 99,200
Armament:	Main guns: 3x triple 18-inch/48 Mk.1 guns (33 second reload, 22.3 km range)  18-inch AP Type B (15,750 dmg, 732 m/s)  18-inch HE Type B (6,450 dmg, 45% fire, 77mm)    2) Secondary: 10x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 Mod guns (3.5 second reload, 8.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 462 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range
Hull:	27 knots  17.6 second rudder shift 16.5 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (15%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down) or Surveillance Radar (9 km range, 30 second duration)

 

A design proceeding the Iowa, mounting 18 inch guns. Unfortunately, there is no picture of this in my book, only the chart (with typos), and a picture I found of someone else's interpretation. She is outwardly similar to Yamato, but she’s a good 60 feet shorter, over an inch less belt armor, and 10,000 tons lighter. As represented, she also has a longer reload and shorter range, but has more health and a better repair party, in addition to either a strong speed boost or radar. 

 

 

Super Ship USS Virginia

(Page 240) Maximum Battleship, Nov 1934

Characteristics
Survivability:	Belt: 16 inch  Deck: 6.5 inch + 1.5 inch splinter deck  HP: 121,900
Armament:	1) Main guns: 4x twin 20-inch/45 Mk.1 guns (36 second reload, 23.1 km range)  20-inch AP Type A (19,800 dmg, 747 m/s)  20-inch HE Type A (7,600 dmg, 45% fire, 85mm)    2) Secondary: 10x twin 5-inch/54 Mk.41 Mod guns (3.3 second reload, 8.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.42 Mod [SAP] (2,400 dmg, 44mm)   3) Anti-Air: 470 continuous dmg, 6 km max range
Hull:	26.2 knots  18.7 second rudder shift 17.8 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Surveillance Radar (10 km range, 30 second duration)    Combat Instruction “Press the Advantage:” reduces secondary battery reload by 25% and increases ship speed by 15% after 10 main battery hits. 40 second duration

 

A draft, similar to the Tillman designs, displaying the largest and most powerful ship that could be built in the US at the time. She mounts colossal 20 inch guns as well as 10 twin 5 inch 54s in an arrangement that allows 6 turrets to fire to a side, rather than 5. The combat instruction is designed to enhance her ability to rush in guns blazing, with a gatling-like 2.5 second reload for the secondaries and a speed of 30.1 knots while active. 

 

 

Tier 10 Steel ship USS Utah 

(Page 179) Future Battleship, Aug 1919

Characteristics
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.5 inch + 1.25 inch splinter deck  HP: 86,400
Armament:	Main guns: 4x twin 18-inch/48 Mk.1 guns (30 second reload, 20.8 km range)  18-inch AP Type B (15,750 dmg, 732 m/s)  18-inch HE Type B (6,450 dmg, 45% fire, 77mm)    2) Secondary: 6x triple 6 inch/53 Mk.12 guns (8 second reload, 8.3 km range)  6 inch Common Mk.24 [SAP] (3,300 dmg, 42mm)    3) Secondary: 9x 5-inch/25 Mk.27 guns (3.7 second reload, 8.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   4) Anti-Air: 348 continuous dmg, 6.9 km max range
Hull:	26.4 knots  16.7 second rudder shift 15.9 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Exhaust Smoke Generator (40 second duration, 150 second cool down)

 

A concept for a “battleship of the future” mounting dual purpose 5 and 6 inch guns. I wanted to add an extra ship, outside the main line, that could be used for other purposes, and this design looked pretty good to turn into a resource ship. The concept is basically the in-game Minnesota re-gunned with an 18 inch main battery and high elevating 6 inch triple turrets. As a steel ship, I wanted to give it a little pizazz, so it has an exhaust smoke generator in exchange for the planes and speed boost/radar. The strong main and secondary battery also warranted me to reduce her AA efficiency: although it has long range thanks to the 6 inch turrets, most of the damage would be tied up in flak with the lighter anti aircraft guns being early war 1.1 inch and 20mm guns… gotta balance her somehow. 

 

There’s a couple more designs I’ve found, but didn’t add in due to thematic or balancing reasons. I could post them later, and some of them would make for cool premium / freemium ships at tiers 7, 8, and 9, but for now, this is enough for a good first post. What do you think? Is there anything I could improve on with my suggestion: add; take away; rebalance; change? I’m open to discussing new ideas, and trying to refine my own suggestions. 

Wow, great job! If we didn't have the USN Hybrid BB splitline taking up the space, I'd say this whole line could've been an amazing addition! That said, it IS possible to get some of these ships in....If we attach Colorado to NorCal, Iowa and Montana like so (in other words, how it was BEFORE the Vermont splitline):

THEN we could add additional "maximum gun ships" under Kansas, Minnesota and Vermont. Those being:

Tier III Delaware

Tier IV Utah (would technically be Florida but Tier VII Florida exists)

Tier V Nevada (Refit)

Tier VI Pennsylvania

Tier VII Tennessee

Thereby completing the Vermont line entirely. We'd have two complete USN BB lines and the USN Hybrid BB splitline. And that would be all. A secondary brawling BB line would have been amazing, but unfortunately I just don't see how we could do that....

....UNLESS we update the original branch to maybe have improved secondaries at Tier VIII and up (so starting from North Carolina). To be fair, the original USN BBs don't really have a "feature". They were supposed to have "high AA ratings" but the state of said AA makes that an EXTREMELY lackluster perk. the original USN tech tree BBs need an update, a new perk. Brawling COULD be one of those perks. They have the secondaries for them (the iconic 127mm/38 mounts).

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 minute ago, Sailor_Moon said:

They were supposed to have "high AA ratings" but the state of said AA makes that an EXTREMELY lackluster perk.

I'm working my way up to Montana building them out this way...

...NorCal benefitted from the build more than I thought she would.

Just starting on the Iowa grind...will see how it works for me.

[Nevermore135]

12 minutes ago, Sailor_Moon said:

To be fair, the original USN BBs don't really have a "feature". They were supposed to have "high AA ratings" but the state of said AA makes that an EXTREMELY lackluster perk. the original USN tech tree BBs need an update, a new perk. Brawling COULD be one of those perks. They have the secondaries for them (the iconic 127mm/38 mounts).

They have the excellent US super heavy 16” shells, extended duration DCP, and improved heals. Having recently reset and ground back to Montana, there is nothing wrong with the line and they don’t need any new features to be competitive.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Ensign Cthulhu]

1 hour ago, That WoT Player said:

That was my thought, like monarch (or is it lion?)

It's Lion. It was also Conqueror until WG pulled her 457's and made Thunderer out of them. 

[Pugilistic]

2 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I'm working my way up to Montana building them out this way...

...NorCal benefitted from the build more than I thought she would.

Just starting on the Iowa grind...will see how it works for me.

Northern California will be overjoyed to know that they are a state 😃

[Wolfswetpaws]

I don't see why some of these ships couldn't become coal ships or premium ships or steel ships.
If they're viable and valid and balanced, they why not add some "toys" to put on the "shelf", eh?

[That WoT Player]

10 hours ago, pew_pew_magoo said:

There are already 3 US BB lines. We don’t need anymore. Maybe a new US DD line. 
 

For new lines we could use some Dutch submarines, Italian submarines, an Italian torpedo DD line and EU cruisers. 
 

I see a lot players complaining about Russian bias, but US bias is much more wide spread. 

The other 2 “lines” are more like half lines, with just 3 ships each. Kinda underwhelming when you look at the German or British BB line splits. I could make a US DD leader type branch, I have some information, but it gets fuzzy at the end. 
 

That’s a nice thought, but I don’t have resources with that information. You can make them yourself though, like what I’ve done here. 
 

I’m not sure what you’re on about, but ok. 
 

10 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Is the idea behind the main guns to have them with worse damage per shell, or worse ballistics or penetration performance?

They have either worse reload, smaller guns, or fewer guns. They would probably also have mediocre dispersion (like all early US battleships), but I hesitate to add too much detail. 
 

9 hours ago, MBT808 said:

This is unnecessary largely, we already have a USN secondary sub branch: WV 44, Massachusetts, Georgia, and Ohio.

good effort though, however I think you need to rebalance it a bunch. As in its current state, you essentially make every other USN BB line pointless.

That’s a sub branch that you have to pay into, so no. 
 

I don’t see how: close range is no where near the meta, and that’s the only place these ships would perform well. They wouldn’t even be as good as the German BB lines because they have a speed advantage over every battleship I’ve suggested; I made a point of that. And these ships have a hard time with angled targets (SAP can ricochet), and can’t set fires when they can’t pen the enemy. 
 

4 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

I expect not, but it is the problem with Secondary BBs writ large... without significant buffs to gun effectiveness (either with penetration boosts, like the German HE pen rules, or some serious tweaks to RoF/range), 5 inch guns aren't that impressive at higher tiers. You'd need to get into some serious post war schtick (Georgia with Forrest Sherman secondaries) before there's anything worth looking at. 

Is the SAP shells I specified not enough? They have decent pen: I took specific care to make it workable (the 5 inch/25 at tier 6 pens 34mm, more than the German 4 inch HE with IFHE, and it only goes up with the 5 inch/38 and 5 inch/54 later on); and they have German / French range. Not sure what else I can do to those guns without making the secondary radius around these ships an actual death trap. 
 

3 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

Wow, great job! If we didn't have the USN Hybrid BB splitline taking up the space, I'd say this whole line could've been an amazing addition! That said, it IS possible to get some of these ships in....If we attach Colorado to NorCal, Iowa and Montana like so (in other words, how it was BEFORE the Vermont splitline):

THEN we could add additional "maximum gun ships" under Kansas, Minnesota and Vermont. Those being:

Tier III Delaware

Tier IV Utah (would technically be Florida but Tier VII Florida exists)

Tier V Nevada (Refit)

Tier VI Pennsylvania

Tier VII Tennessee

Thereby completing the Vermont line entirely. We'd have two complete USN BB lines and the USN Hybrid BB splitline. And that would be all. A secondary brawling BB line would have been amazing, but unfortunately I just don't see how we could do that....

....UNLESS we update the original branch to maybe have improved secondaries at Tier VIII and up (so starting from North Carolina). To be fair, the original USN BBs don't really have a "feature". They were supposed to have "high AA ratings" but the state of said AA makes that an EXTREMELY lackluster perk. the original USN tech tree BBs need an update, a new perk. Brawling COULD be one of those perks. They have the secondaries for them (the iconic 127mm/38 mounts).

Humorously enough, I have some stuff for fast battleships can can fill the tanks down to tier 5, and make the NorCar-Montana split not so short. I also have info on 2 more hybrid battleships, that could take the line down to tier 6… but I think I’ll refrain. 
 

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I don't see why some of these ships couldn't become coal ships or premium ships or steel ships.
If they're viable and valid and balanced, they why not add some "toys" to put on the "shelf", eh?

The last ship I suggested is a steel ship, and: 

Quote

There’s a couple more designs I’ve found, but didn’t add in due to thematic or balancing reasons. I could post them later, and some of them would make for cool premium / freemium ships at tiers 7, 8, and 9, but for now, this is enough for a good first post.

My last paragraph answers your question. I apologize if I’m a little too good at weaving my clarifications and intents with the rest of my dialogue. 

[Sailor_Moon]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:48 PM, Nevermore135 said:

They have the excellent US super heavy 16” shells, extended duration DCP, and improved heals. Having recently reset and ground back to Montana, there is nothing wrong with the line and they don’t need any new features to be competitive.

Well, I never said there was anything "wrong" with the line, I'm just saying they're a bit of a jack-of-all-trades, master of none-style line. TECHNICALLY their high AA ratings was supposed to be their thing, but....being more proficient in AA is a bit of a booby prize, considering the state of AA mechanics (I'm aware Wargaming was testing changes to those mechanics).

[Nevermore135]

3 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

Well, I never said there was anything "wrong" with the line, I'm just saying they're a bit of a jack-of-all-trades, master of none-style line. TECHNICALLY their high AA ratings was supposed to be their thing, but....being more proficient in AA is a bit of a booby prize, considering the state of AA mechanics (I'm aware Wargaming was testing changes to those mechanics).

If there is nothing wrong with them, why do they need “a new perk?” The line is solid and competitive without any of the features/gimmicks that have come to characterize so many more recent additions.

[Nevermore135]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:57 PM, invicta2012 said:

I expect not, but it is the problem with Secondary BBs writ large... without significant buffs to gun effectiveness (either with penetration boosts, like the German HE pen rules, or some serious tweaks to RoF/range), 5 inch guns aren't that impressive at higher tiers. You'd need to get into some serious post war schtick (Georgia with Forrest Sherman secondaries) before there's anything worth looking at. 

Indeed.

The IFHE rework was not kind to American 5”/38s, both high tier BB secondaries or Atlanta-class main battery weapons. Losing the ability to pen 27mm (tier VIII-X US/German CA extremity and high tier cruiser amidships deck plating) was a major nerf, to say nothing of the fire chance penalty. MA at tier VIII can still get some good work out of her secondaries (with or without IFHE) despite the lackluster penetration, but at higher tiers the lack of penetration is much more keenly felt.

The skill rework made things even worse for “secondary-focused” American BBs, as they received a two-pronged dispersion nerf after the changes to the manual secondaries skills. Not only was their maximum accuracy reduced (German BBs received an ~20% base dispersion buff to keep their maximum accuracy the same, after all), but the new “ramp-up” mechanic means it takes quite a bit of time to built up that accuracy. It doesn’t help that the most effective use of these accurate 127s has always been as anti-DD weapons where their poor penetration is mostly irrelevant (most DDs don’t have >21mm plating), so these ships were arguably the hardest hit BBs by the changes.

[Wye_So_Serious]

On 9/1/2023 at 12:11 PM, That WoT Player said:

This proposal is dedicated to a particular secondary build enthusiast, Mailor Soon, and I’ve moved this ahead of updating my Scout Cruiser thread because of all the crap that just happened over in California (and this took so long we had our own trouble over here in Florida). Hope everyone reading this is ok. 

 

The genesis of this line of ships came from 2 places: my own hobby-research on warships; and seeing other people enjoy secondary focused ships, but the options are currently kinda limited. Seeing that there was a desire, and that I had the resources to possibly fulfill that desire, I decided to compile some designs and breathe a little life and passion into them, and Voila! A line of 5 United States tech tree (and one super) ships specialized towards their smaller guns. The line has just as much in common with Georgia as Massachusetts: having the strong secondaries of both but also the speed boost and quick repair party of Georgia. The features of the line are long range, SAP secondaries, with engine boost being available from the first ship, and radar starting at tier 8 (competing with engine boost when present), and generally a slight speed increase over the normal US “standard” line, though results may vary. Strong AA is also common through the line (as should be expected of USN ships), with above average hit points for their tier and lower detectability ranges should definitely help with survivability, but main gun DPM is reduced due to having fewer barrels, longer reloads, and/or smaller guns than their peers. I’ve also paid some attention to the rudder shift, as that is important to getting the maximum number of secondaries on target, but it was not my primary (nor even secondary) focus. 

 

 

Tier 6 USS New Hampshire

(S-584-001) BB-36 Scheme A

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 3 inch + 2 inch splinter deck  HP: 49,700	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 3 inch + 2 inch splinter deck HP: 54,100
Armament:	Main guns: 4x twin 14-inch/45 Mk.1 guns (28 second reload, 15.1 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,300 dmg, 792 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    Secondary: 8x 5-inch/25 Mk.19 guns (4 second reload, 5.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    Secondary: 8x 5-inch/51 Mk.13 guns (7 second reload, 5.6 km range) 5-inch Common Mk.15 [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    Anti-Air: 120 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range	Main guns: 4x twin 14-inch/45 Mk.1 guns (28 second reload, 16.6 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,300 dmg, 792 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    Secondary: 8x 5-inch/25 Mk.19 guns (4 second reload, 5.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   Secondary: 8x 5-inch/51 Mk.13 guns (7 second reload 5.6 km range)  5-inch Common Mk.15 [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    Anti-Air: 214 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range
Hull:	20 knots  16.2 second rudder shift 13.4 km detection range	22 knots 12.7 second rudder shift 13.4 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down)

 

The line begins via a split off from the New York, and the unifying feature of the branch should be clear: generally poor main guns per tier but very powerful secondaries. Don’t be fooled by the somewhat quick main battery reload, she has less DPM than New York and she’s a tier higher. Like LittleWhiteMouse suggested when reviewing WeeVee ‘44, it is probably best to play these boats like normal battleships during the early part of the match and begin brawling later, once enemy ships have been sunk and health pools reduced. This particular ship is a modified and updated version of the first draft design of the Nevada class, only missing 0.5 inches of belt and with 1 knot extra speed. 

 

 

Tier 7 USS Mississippi 

Late war upgrades

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.5 inch + 2.75 inch splinter deck  HP: 53,900	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.5 inch + 2.75 inch splinter deck HP: 60,500
Armament:	Main guns: 4x triple 14-inch/50 Mk.11 guns (36 second reload, 15.8 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,500 dmg, 823 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    2) Secondary: 8x 5-inch/25 Mk.19 guns (4 second reload, 6.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   3) Secondary: 8x 5-inch/51 Mk.13 guns (7 second reload, 6.3 km range) 5-inch Common Mk.15 [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)    4) Anti-Air: 199 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range	Main guns: 4x triple 14-inch/50 Mk.11 guns (36 second reload, 17.4 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,500 dmg, 823 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    2) Secondary: 16x 5-inch/25 Mk.27 guns (3.7 second reload, 6.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   3) Anti-Air: 362 continuous dmg, 4.8 km max range
Hull:	19.5 knots  17.9 second rudder shift 14.1 km detection range	21.6 knots 13.9 second rudder shift 14.1 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down)

 

The only built in steel ship of the branch, Mississippi has a unique late war gun upgrade where she doubled her 5 inch 25 armament instead of receiving 5 inch 38s like almost every other surviving battleship. Her medium and light AA were also increased significantly. Unfortunately, due to the power of her secondaries, I felt it necessary to lengthen her reload time above that of California or New Mexico, both of which are uncomfortably bad, but that’s the price I believe had to be paid for these killer 5 inch SAP shooters. I also couldn’t justify increasing her speed any more than I did, as this was a ship laid in steel and we know her characteristics quite well, and I’m not the person to just rewrite history for the sake of a game. Instead I ramped up her health slightly more than I originally had it, and she still has the engine boost for some compensation. This is, however, the last battleship of the branch with a split secondary battery, and all subsequent ships will have a uniform, dual purpose battery. 

 

 

Tier 8 USS North Dakota 

(Page 236) Battleship Design #2, Sept. 1934 

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.75 inch + 1.5 inch splinter deck  HP: 63,400	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.75 inch + 1.5 inch splinter deck HP: 70,300
Armament:	Main guns: 4x twin 16-inch/45 Mk.5 guns (31 second reload, 18.4 km range)  16-inch AP Mk.5 (12,400 dmg, 768 m/s)  16-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,700 dmg, 36% fire, 68mm)    2) Secondary: 7x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (4 second reload, 7.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 288 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range	Main guns: 4x twin 16-inch/45 Mk.5 guns (31 second reload, 20.2 km range)  16-inch AP Mk.5 (12,400 dmg, 768 m/s)  16-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,700 dmg, 36% fire, 68mm)    2) Secondary: 7x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (4 second reload, 7.6 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 414 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range
Hull:	24.8 knots  20.7 second rudder shift 15.4 km detection range	26.5 knots 15.4 second rudder shift 15.4 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down) or Surveillance Radar (9 km range, 20 second duration)

 

A battleship design prepared towards the end of the first capital ship building holiday. In spite of the odd number of secondary gun turrets, 5 could shoot to a side due to their unique arrangement, and had large firing arcs. I personally mixed studies 2 and 4 to get a better balance of speed and armor in this proposal, to better fit the rest of the line. This is the first ship with radar, and unlike most ships, it can replace the engine boost rather than the float planes. I decided to give players a choice on what they deem more important: closing the distance to a target / keep up with a fleeting target (a more aggressive approach), or to spot nearby enemies but not being able to effectively give chase against faster ships (to which there are many). 

 

 

Tier 9 USS Rhode island 

(Page 290) BB-57 Preliminary Studies, 1937 

Characteristics	Stock:	Upgraded:
Survivability:	Belt: 13 inch sloped + 1.25 inch outer plating Deck: 6 inch + 1.25 inch splinter deck  HP: 71,900	Belt: 13 inch sloped + 1.25 inch outer plating Deck: 6 inch + 1.25 inch splinter deck HP: 82,200
Armament:	Main guns: 3x quad 14-inch/50 Mk.11 guns (27 second reload, 19.2 km range)  14-inch AP Mk.16 (10,500 dmg, 823 m/s)  14-inch HE/HC Mk.22 (5,000 dmg, 30% fire, 59mm)    2) Secondary: 8x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (3.8 second reload, 8 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 325 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range	Main guns: 3x triple 16-inch/45 Mk.6 guns (31 second reload, 21.1 km range)  16-inch AP Mk.8 (13,100 dmg, 701 m/s)  16-inch HE/HC Mk.13 (5,700 dmg, 36% fire, 68mm)    2) Secondary: 8x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 guns (3.8 second reload, 8 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 432 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range
Hull:	25 knots  23 second rudder shift 15.7 km detection range	26.8 knots 16.9 second rudder shift 15.7 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (8%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down) or Surveillance Radar (9 km range, 25 second duration)

 

A collection of design studies leading up to the South Dakota (BB-57) class. Many of the studies had concluded before the escalator clause was enacted, which is why the 14 inch armament is there. I gave it a better reload than any other comparable US gun and added in the good shells (unlike Florida) to hopefully make the stock grind less painful. Just like the previous ship, the secondaries (which are nearly identical to those found on Georgia) are arranged to where 5 can fire to a side. I have a stronger preference for the division flag ship version (the mini picture just above the full ship) as it is more unique, and a gun that high up probably has better firing arcs, but either variant would work. The complex belt design for some of these studies is also included in my table, being similar to that on the real South Dakota but thicker and with a very thick reverse slope / deck slope. 

 

 

Tier 10 USS Michigan 

(Page 308) Design I, April 1938

Characteristics
Survivability:	Belt: 14.75 inch sloped + 1.25 inch outer plating Deck: 5.1 inch + 1.5 inch bomb deck + 0.63 inch splinter deck  HP: 99,200
Armament:	Main guns: 3x triple 18-inch/48 Mk.1 guns (33 second reload, 22.3 km range)  18-inch AP Type B (15,750 dmg, 732 m/s)  18-inch HE Type B (6,450 dmg, 45% fire, 77mm)    2) Secondary: 10x twin 5-inch/38 Mk.38 Mod guns (3.5 second reload, 8.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.46 [SAP] (2,200 dmg, 40mm)   3) Anti-Air: 462 continuous dmg, 5.8 km max range
Hull:	27 knots  17.6 second rudder shift 16.5 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Engine Boost (15%, 90 second duration, 90 second cool down) or Surveillance Radar (9 km range, 30 second duration)

 

A design proceeding the Iowa, mounting 18 inch guns. Unfortunately, there is no picture of this in my book, only the chart (with typos), and a picture I found of someone else's interpretation. She is outwardly similar to Yamato, but she’s a good 60 feet shorter, over an inch less belt armor, and 10,000 tons lighter. As represented, she also has a longer reload and shorter range, but has more health and a better repair party, in addition to either a strong speed boost or radar. 

 

 

Super Ship USS Virginia

(Page 240) Maximum Battleship, Nov 1934

Characteristics
Survivability:	Belt: 16 inch  Deck: 6.5 inch + 1.5 inch splinter deck  HP: 121,900
Armament:	1) Main guns: 4x twin 20-inch/45 Mk.1 guns (36 second reload, 23.1 km range)  20-inch AP Type A (19,800 dmg, 747 m/s)  20-inch HE Type A (7,600 dmg, 45% fire, 85mm)    2) Secondary: 10x twin 5-inch/54 Mk.41 Mod guns (3.3 second reload, 8.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common Mk.42 Mod [SAP] (2,400 dmg, 44mm)   3) Anti-Air: 470 continuous dmg, 6 km max range
Hull:	26.2 knots  18.7 second rudder shift 17.8 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Spotter (20% range, 100 second duration) or Fighter Surveillance Radar (10 km range, 30 second duration)    Combat Instruction “Press the Advantage:” reduces secondary battery reload by 25% and increases ship speed by 15% after 10 main battery hits. 40 second duration

 

A draft, similar to the Tillman designs, displaying the largest and most powerful ship that could be built in the US at the time. She mounts colossal 20 inch guns as well as 10 twin 5 inch 54s in an arrangement that allows 6 turrets to fire to a side, rather than 5. The combat instruction is designed to enhance her ability to rush in guns blazing, with a gatling-like 2.5 second reload for the secondaries and a speed of 30.1 knots while active. 

 

 

Tier 10 Steel ship USS Utah 

(Page 179) Future Battleship, Aug 1919

Characteristics
Survivability:	Belt: 13.5 inch Deck: 5.5 inch + 1.25 inch splinter deck  HP: 86,400
Armament:	Main guns: 4x twin 18-inch/48 Mk.1 guns (30 second reload, 20.8 km range)  18-inch AP Type B (15,750 dmg, 732 m/s)  18-inch HE Type B (6,450 dmg, 45% fire, 77mm)    2) Secondary: 6x triple 6 inch/53 Mk.12 guns (8 second reload, 8.3 km range)  6 inch Common Mk.24 [SAP] (3,300 dmg, 42mm)    3) Secondary: 9x 5-inch/25 Mk.27 guns (3.7 second reload, 8.3 km range) 5-inch Special Common [SAP] (2,100 dmg, 34mm)   4) Anti-Air: 348 continuous dmg, 6.9 km max range
Hull:	26.4 knots  16.7 second rudder shift 15.9 km detection range
Consumables:	Damage control party Repair party (28 second duration, 40 second cool down) Exhaust Smoke Generator (40 second duration, 150 second cool down)

 

A concept for a “battleship of the future” mounting dual purpose 5 and 6 inch guns. I wanted to add an extra ship, outside the main line, that could be used for other purposes, and this design looked pretty good to turn into a resource ship. The concept is basically the in-game Minnesota re-gunned with an 18 inch main battery and high elevating 6 inch triple turrets. As a steel ship, I wanted to give it a little pizazz, so it has an exhaust smoke generator in exchange for the planes and speed boost/radar. The strong main and secondary battery also warranted me to reduce her AA efficiency: although it has long range thanks to the 6 inch turrets, most of the damage would be tied up in flak with the lighter anti aircraft guns being early war 1.1 inch and 20mm guns… gotta balance her somehow. 

 

There’s a couple more designs I’ve found, but didn’t add in due to thematic or balancing reasons. I could post them later, and some of them would make for cool premium / freemium ships at tiers 7, 8, and 9, but for now, this is enough for a good first post. What do you think? Is there anything I could improve on with my suggestion: add; take away; rebalance; change? I’m open to discussing new ideas, and trying to refine my own suggestions. 

WG wouldn’t allow this as the line would be fun.

Seriously, nice work and thoughts.

[Sailor_Moon]

On 9/3/2023 at 2:35 AM, Nevermore135 said:

If there is nothing wrong with them, why do they need “a new perk?” The line is solid and competitive without any of the features/gimmicks that have come to characterize so many more recent additions.

For something interesting. A majority of the tech tree lines have "something interesting", a unique feature. But yes, the original USN BB line can receive nothing and be Ok as they are. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[That WoT Player]

On 9/3/2023 at 2:35 AM, Nevermore135 said:

If there is nothing wrong with them, why do they need “a new perk?” The line is solid and competitive without any of the features/gimmicks that have come to characterize so many more recent additions.

Because the old “good AA” gimmick/perk they had is… lackluster now. The super heavy shells also don’t have enhanced ricochet angles, to my knowledge, which they should as US armor piercing caps were world class.