Flambass about no full line - ups and the falsification of battle results by the inflated use of RNG.

[Andrewbassg]

7 hours ago, OT2_2 said:

 

 

Yep. That's exactly what i meant with AP rework  3.0. That BS that you can't  hit at ridiculously close ranges  broadsiding cruisers. It legit looks like that  with AP, there is a different RNG, altogether.  

 

I try to avoid using AP as much as possible. As a cruiser !!) main. 

[Andrewbassg]

2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I haven't seen the video

Put it at the relevant moment.

 

 Tbh......normally I wouldn't  mind RNG coz it has historical basis, therefore it has legitimacy. I mean naval guns weren't exactly railguns. But this is...... yeeah.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

2 hours ago, Malum0ne said:

Wife?🤭

The moment yours sees this, you are a dead man. You know that, don't you? 😈

[ArIskandir]

4 hours ago, OT2_2 said:

 I can assure you that the main (poor) body of the player base gets even more affected. 

You have no idea what it means and how it benefits good players to have minimal RNG "distorting" your actions... as a practical example I suggest playing CS or any other shooter with minimal RNG dispersion. Given a significant difference on skill between opponents, the game becomes unplayable, the better player will land headshots on the lesser skilled player finishing the fight before it even started, and that happens over and over and over again. 

You are seeing only the times when you get screwed by RNG but you fail to realize the many times RNG protects you and saves you from being deleted in one salvo. The way the game is geared, it needs significant RNG to make some ship types playable, what do you think keeps CLs alive but RNG? what do you think keeps BBs with huge alpha guns, armor and huge HP pools in check but RNG?. WoWS would be unplayable without significant RNG moddifiers. 

[Asym]

2 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

You have no idea what it means and how it benefits good players to have minimal RNG "distorting" your actions... as a practical example I suggest playing CS or any other shooter with minimal RNG dispersion. Given a significant difference on skill between opponents, the game becomes unplayable, the better player will land headshots on the lesser skilled player finishing the fight before it even started, and that happens over and over and over again. 

You are seeing only the times when you get screwed by RNG but you fail to realize the many times RNG protects you and saves you from being deleted in one salvo. The way the game is geared, it needs significant RNG to make some ship types playable, what do you think keeps CLs alive but RNG? what do you think keeps BBs with huge alpha guns, armor and huge HP pools in check but RNG?. WoWS would be unplayable without significant RNG moddifiers. 

So true.

I wonder, if our host would allow one day of LOS = LOF...  I'd have my Yammy out shooting citadels at max range all day long @!   AND, can you imagine the screams of Angst; the piles of hair next to the keyboard; so many bruised foreheads the ER departments would have to call the CDC; and, the amount of booze that would be consumed if they'd do that.....  Now you see why TV today is so dangerous.....that crew above see artillery on youtude and thinks that is what was......hahahaha

Face it, the Schwartz is with us to stay.....

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

14 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Given a significant difference on skill between opponents, the game becomes unplayable, the better player will land headshots on the lesser skilled player finishing the fight before it even started, and that happens over and over and over again.

Why does this make the game 'unplayable'?

[clammboy]

I don't mind Flamebass he seems like he's pretty chill not really toxic and great at the game. But like almost every other unicum If he does something he expects the best result. He is literally complaining about RNG and the way the game works. 

Yet he won the game did 208k damage had a Hi caliber a Dreadnought finished first with 2780 base XP and was clearly the best player in that battle and it showed in the results. So I really don't get the gist of the video I mean I do but come on the game worked fine right there

Edited February 26 by clammboy

[ArIskandir]

4 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Why does this make the game 'unplayable'?

Because matches with players of different skill levels are over in seconds and are not fun to play. You end up doing "dumb" stuff to make it somewhat interesting, like using only your pistol or even only your knife. And if you are on the lower scale of the interaction, you get killed the moment you get spotted or even before you notice you are spotted, your match is reduced to an endless cycle of spawning, running and being fragged before you even notice... that's why SBMM and/or League systems are basically a must for such games. On a game like WoWS where there's no SBMM, a good dose of RNG is a must.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

38 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Because matches with players of different skill levels are over in seconds and are not fun to play. You end up doing "dumb" stuff to make it somewhat interesting, like using only your pistol or even only your knife. And if you are on the lower scale of the interaction, you get killed the moment you get spotted or even before you notice you are spotted, your match is reduced to an endless cycle of spawning, running and being fragged before you even notice... that's why SBMM and/or League systems are basically a must for such games. On a game like WoWS where there's no SBMM, a good dose of RNG is a must.

Skill disparities are 'not fun'...indeed.

It would be far easier to code this game if they had less RNG and could then focus on growing enough of a playerbase to enable SBMM.

Why haven't WG done so?

IMO, it's because WG has no interest in making a properly balanced e-sports type game...and prefers the casino business model.

This (amongst other things) is why I point out that most of the games are being actively rigged in one way or another with 'RNG'...as you seem to imply above is necessary.

[ArIskandir]

15 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

It would be far easier to code this game if they had less RNG and could then focus on growing enough of a playerbase to enable SBMM.

Why haven't WG done so?

Because growing up a steady playerbase is not easy at all?... the significant RNG is a way to make the game accessible to common players thus a move to grow the playerbase. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 minute ago, ArIskandir said:

Because growing up a steady playerbase is not easy at all?... the significant RNG is a way to make the game accessible to common players thus a move to grow the playerbase. 

I don't think WG is interested in even exploring the possibility of utilizing different methods than the casino 'RNG' model.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

2 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

is why I point out that most of the games are being actively rigged in one way or another

So explain, then, why others consistently have significantly higher solo win rates in the same ships and at the same tiers.

[Jakob Knight]

10 hours ago, Aethervox said:

 

Nevertheless, seal clubbing is in WoWS & how can one remove it? In fact, it can be argued that the mid tiers (5 - 7) are the best to play. T2 - T4 are, also, fun to play.

 

Here is yet another falsity commonly believed by the playerbase.

 

There is no 'seal clubbing'.  That term has been in use by players for a very long time as a means to disparage anyone who has played longer than themselves to excuse their own performance (among other excuses).  Any player is free to run any ship they wish in this game, and they fight under the same conditions as any other player at their tier.  All that matters is skill level, and that is not dependent upon the Tier played.

 

As an example, we have players decrying that new players can play in end-game Tiers, regardless of how they actually do.  Tiers do not designate skill level, and never have.  What they do designate is the ability levels of the ships in the battle, and they are kept within a range to keep a Montana from facing a Yubari.  That would be a proper deal clubbing.

 

All players can match against all other players.  No restrictions exist because all accept this fact when they press that 'battle' button.  So it has always been, and to do otherwise wouldn't be 'fair' to those with the ability to fight well who want to match themselves up against the best.

 

I will note that the stigma of the higher Tiers somehow being more 'the real game' has not helped the situation, as no worthwhile player wants to play in a part of the game that is seen as handicapped or not what they got the game to play.  Lower tier or higher, all that matters is the power level of the ships, not the players.

 

 

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

Veteran players have the resources to place 21 point commanders on their favourite low tier ships. The performance gains add up along with the skill and knowledge advantages. Seal clubbing is in fact real, and only a dirty seal clubber would say otherwise. 😇

[Jakob Knight]

Just now, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

Veteran players have the resources to place 21 point commanders on their favourite low tier ships. The performance gains add up along with the skill and knowledge advantages. Seal clubbing is in fact real, and only a dirty seal clubber would say otherwise. 😇

 

I've taken unskilled Commanders into T10 battles and defeated other ships.  The Commanders do not matter as much as the player.

 

 

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

6 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

I've taken unskilled Commanders into T10 battles and defeated other ships.  The Commanders do not matter as much as the player.

 

 

They do at T1 to T4 - the low tier ships I am specifically referring to. I did not mention T10. Did I?

It's an edge. Guns reload a little faster, fires get started a little easier and more often, turrets rotate a little faster. etc etc etc. It adds up. I also showed the skill difference in another thread here recently where I posted screen shots of my alt account I set up 2 years ago. 200 games in PMM and I graduated out with a 90% win rate. The wins only tapered down slightly at T4. T1, 2 and 3 I slaughtered the human players, the poor seals did not stand a chance. And I am a mere 52% winrate player, barely average - on my main account.

 

For the duration of those 200 games - I was in fact a FILTHY seal clubber - I own it. And I still feel dirty about it.

Edited February 25 by UnderTheRadarAgain

[Ensign Cthulhu]

 https://youtu.be/IUPIYrYBEd8?si=QVfd7Zvx-C_hZ43I&t=5563

This match was three years ago, when the Italian battleships were still in early access. I took the Andrea Doria into Randoms with an eight point captain, only six of which are used, so it might as well have been a six-pointer (and those are available for credits). 

SIX kills. 

Whatever it was that brought this about, it probably wasn't the captain I had in the ship. 

 

[Jakob Knight]

39 minutes ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

They do at T1 to T4 - the low tier ships I am specifically referring to. I did not mention T10. Did I?

It's an edge. Guns reload a little faster, fires get started a little easier and more often, turrets rotate a little faster. etc etc etc. It adds up. I also showed the skill difference in another thread here recently where I posted screen shots of my alt account I set up 2 years ago. 200 games in PMM and I graduated out with a 90% win rate. The wins only tapered down slightly at T4. T1, 2 and 3 I slaughtered the human players, the poor seals did not stand a chance. And I am a mere 52% winrate player, barely average - on my main account.

 

For the duration of those 200 games - I was in fact a FILTHY seal clubber - I own it. And I still feel dirty about it.

 

Here's a secret veteran players know.  Tier doesn't matter.

 

A player at T10 facing T10s will be challenged and have a game similar to a T4 facing a T4.  The skill of the players and their decisions as a team make the outcome, with only the level of power they are playing at being different.  The higher the Tier, the more a mistake will cost you, but if you make less than your opponent, you will overcome them.

 

Commanders skill points are a slight addition that is canceled by player action.  It doesn't matter if you have a 21 point commander or no commander at all when you eat six torpedoes...your ship goes down all the same because you made the decision that put you in place to eat them.

 

Lastly, isn't half the complaints these days about players in T10 ships getting slaughtered and not standing a chance because they are unskilled at the game?  This game is -about- the differences in player skill and decision making.  There are -always- going to be those who are not as well suited to the game as others, regardless of the Tier.  Claiming anything was due to 'seal clubbing' is just another excuse for a player not meeting the challenge before them, either because they don't have the skill in the game to play as well as those they faced or because they made mistakes that cost them their match.  It is entirely up to them to improve, and you don't improve by being restricted in who you can face in battle.  How are the inexperienced going to improve except by playing with the experienced and meeting that challenge?

 

Edited February 26 by Jakob Knight

[OT2_2]

As a little reminder, this thread is about no full line - ups, different than WG is pretending, and most importantly about the negative effects on the game by inflated use of RNG. Not about "seal - clubbing" etc. 

Edited February 26 by OT2_2

[Nautic_Hunt]

Not interested in all the other stuff but with reference to the lack of a full line up it's the people running their super ships that contribute to that, particularly outside of prime time.

[Jakob Knight]

I got halfway through the video and had to stop.  Flamu  Flambass is acting like a new player instead of someone who has been playing it for years.  Why he is doing so, I do not know, but he knows very well that MM pulls from the people who are looking for a match at the Tier you have selected within the time you are waiting, and sorts for the matches as it can to produce a game in the least amount of time.  He knows Ranked is going on and people will be doing that, further pulling people off the Random T10 MM, yet he cries about not getting a full game.  As though this has never happened to him and he can't understand it.

 

Further, he acts like this is a FPS like Counterstrike, when he knows very well it is a naval combat game depicting multiton weapons that do -not- go exactly where you point them, even in real life.  More, he acts like he's not played under these conditions for years and continues to do so.

 

I don't know.  How can a veteran player act like this and still be taken seriously?

Edited February 26 by Jakob Knight

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

7 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

I got halfway through the video and had to stop.  Flamu is acting like a new player instead of someone who has been playing it for years.  Why he is doing so, I do not know, but he knows very well that MM pulls from the people who are looking for a match at the Tier you have selected within the time you are waiting, and sorts for the matches as it can to produce a game in the least amount of time.  He knows Ranked is going on and people will be doing that, further pulling people off the Random T10 MM, yet he cries about not getting a full game.  As though this has never happened to him and he can't understand it.

 

Further, he acts like this is a FPS like Counterstrike, when he knows very well it is a naval combat game depicting multiton weapons that do -not- go exactly where you point them, even in real life.  More, he acts like he's not played under these conditions for years and continues to do so.

 

I don't know.  How can a veteran player act like this and still be taken seriously?

Flambass the Croatian streamer, not the Finnish dude Flamu.

The dude has chosen to make playing world of warships one of his primary sources of income. I would not be surprised if his frustration isn't tied into this. Unlike the usual youtube click bait channels who generate all their income from likes and subscribes - Flambass relies on twitch subscriptions. A dwindling player count may play a part in his growing frustration. I'm no psychologist so I may be right off here.

We can afford to walk away when we get frustrated by the game - and we do get frustrated and walk away for a week or two. But when your income is tied to playing the game, you just can't walk away. It has to have a negative effect eventually.

Thats my 2 cents.

[hipcanuck]

5 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

You have no idea what it means and how it benefits good players to have minimal RNG "distorting" your actions... as a practical example I suggest playing CS or any other shooter with minimal RNG dispersion. Given a significant difference on skill between opponents, the game becomes unplayable, the better player will land headshots on the lesser skilled player finishing the fight before it even started, and that happens over and over and over again. 

You are seeing only the times when you get screwed by RNG but you fail to realize the many times RNG protects you and saves you from being deleted in one salvo. The way the game is geared, it needs significant RNG to make some ship types playable, what do you think keeps CLs alive but RNG? what do you think keeps BBs with huge alpha guns, armor and huge HP pools in check but RNG?. WoWS would be unplayable without significant RNG moddifiers. 

CS, omg I just had a flashback. I played that in closed beta long ago (when you'd get stuck on a dead guy and grenades could stick to you if they bounced off a wall first) and played it pretty hard for a few years. My buddy and I (who also played WoT and WoWs) started a clan, got good enough to play in closed OGL. Fun times!

[Ensign Cthulhu]

22 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

I don't know.  How can a veteran player act like this and still be taken seriously?

Because he knows a lot of people out there will accept anything he says without question, solely because of who he is. 

22 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

weapons that do -not- go exactly where you point them, even in real life.

ESPECIALLY in real life. The hit rates we get at 20-plus kilometres would make World War 1 fire control officers j*** in their pants.

Edited February 26 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Zysyss]

I went to a Blizzcon many years ago and someone asked the devs why gaming companies use RNG. He said for two reasons.

1- To try and keep some randomness in the game so people don't get bored.

2- To help the less skilled players compete with better skilled players in PVP. 

Number one is fine for the PVE part of a game, but number two can make a good player feel they are being cheated in order to protect bad players in PVP.

Number two is the reason why World of Warships could never be an Esports game. 

Edited February 26 by Zysyss