Mountbatten on changes to KOTs

[Wolfswetpaws]

5 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

I doubt that highly.

From my understanding, King of the Seas tournaments are supposed to be the "highest levels of play" for World of Warships players. Anything that screws with the balance like that (CVs, subs, certain overperforming surface ships) is of course going to be either restricted or outright banned. Kinda like Smogon for Pokemon. there's lots of banned pokemon simply because they're too powerful/influential for regular tournament play (lols Mega Rayquaza formed its own darn tier). Same goes for Magic The Gathering. LOTS of game-breaking cards (Black Lotus, anyone?!) that are banned in tournament play. Now, Wizards of the Coast and Game Freak may not care to adjust these broken cards/pokemon, which is honestly bad. But Wargaming's WoWs, which is predominantly a PvP game, should ABSOLUTELY be taking notice of overperforming/broken ships restricted in KOTS. Those ships clearly need to be brought in line if everyone is using them. And since CVs and subs are BOTH banned wholesale....that indicates balance issues with the entire line, not just select CVs and subs.

Add to that that Wargaming is looking to solve balance issues with the aforementioned upcoming CV spotting changes and sub shotgunning changes...I dunno, buuut it sure seems like a PATTERN of balance issues, not just a coincidence, to me... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I disagree.  🙂 

The "highest levels of play"?  
To explore that, I'll ask this question.  "How are kots players & teams selected?"
I have a guess, but I'd rather know the facts and then examine them properly.

Related follow-up question:  Why are the teams half the size of a normal Random battle team of 12 players?

In the past, I've argued that kots players are kings of the training scenario precisely because they're not facing the same opposition which is possible in a random battle.
Leaving that aside for the moment ....
Shall we compare kots to some of the brawls modes?  Or ranked or Clan battles?
Those modes do restrict which ships are able to participate.  So, at the very least, I feel it is more of an apples to apples comparison.  What say you?

In a Chess tournament, everyone plays by the same rules, uses the same board and uses the same pieces and the same number of pieces.
(At least, as I understand it.)
Some tournaments have a timer, so the game can be decided by running out of time or by getting defeated by the moves on the board.

So, while you bring up Magic-the-Gathering and Pokemon card games for comparison, I feel they're best utilized to illustrate the concepts you're conveying.
I'm not yet convinced they're a viable and comparable analog of World of Warships.  But, perhaps someone can enlighten me?  I'm listening.

Back to kots.  I'm confident you've watched kots matches.  I've watched some, here & there, over the past few years.
I'm not convinced they're the "highest levels of" entertainment.
Some of the matches have been disappointing, to me.  
Okay, so they're not Olympic Ice-Hockey, either. 
But, I do feel that kots matches are more about the hype than the player performances and team strategies.
To make another apples to oranges comparison, even professional baseball had to change their rules to speed-up the pace of their play, in order to keep audiences entertained and to keep the games within certain time-limits for television broadcast scheduling purposes.
Older Major League baseball games could be similar to watching paint dry, at times.  🙂 

Moving on.

Combat is done with what is available at the time of contact with the opposition.
Real life isn't WOWs, and vice-versa.

Balancing ships?  Sounds great.  
Meanwhile, how about we play what we've got to its full potential?
I'm not convinced WG/WOWs is sharing everything about the balancing process. 
I also suspect they're willing to alter ships in order to make newer ships look attractive enough to be purchased and/or to retain players.
Recent changes to CV's and Submarines (and other ships which receieved Submarine Surveilance consumable) seem more about catering to the loudest whiners instead of educating all players how to be winners with the ships in "as is" condition.  But, perhaps that's just me.  🙂 
Balancing ships?  Everyone wants the same thing, which is, having things "their own way".  😉 
 

[Sailor_Moon]

7 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

🤣 How can it be the highest level of play when they aren't even playing the same game?

Don't buy the advertising hype.

KotS is a boring mod of world of warships...populated by guys who are good at a version of the game that never existed.

This is like saying guys who only play tier 1 are examples of the highest levels of play in the game. The assertion is so far from the truth that it should just be mocked at every opportunity, IMO.

To be fair, I don't really know enough about KOTS because I have never participated in KOTS. So you're probably right. I'm just assuming it's "at the highest levels of play". Y'know...KING of the Seas and all that? No Queens though, apparently 😜

[Sailor_Moon]

2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Back to kots.  I'm confident you've watched kots matches.  I've watched some, here & there, over the past few years.

To be brutally honest, I have NOT seen any KOTS matches, I made a general assumption about them being the "higher level play", given the fact that they're tournaments based on Ranked Play, which seemed a lot more competitive, given the bans and restrictions on meta ships. So forgive my ignorance when it comes to KOTS events. That said, I don't think World of Warships is Esports-ready or compatible yet, and THAT argument of mine still stands as-is. World of Warships' game balance is not, in my honest opinion, at THAT level to justify inclusion into Esports.

[Wolfswetpaws]

10 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

To be brutally honest, I have NOT seen any KOTS matches, I made a general assumption about them being the "higher level play", given the fact that they're tournaments based on Ranked Play, which seemed a lot more competitive, given the bans and restrictions on meta ships. So forgive my ignorance when it comes to KOTS events. That said, I don't think World of Warships is Esports-ready or compatible yet, and THAT argument of mine still stands as-is. World of Warships' game balance is not, in my honest opinion, at THAT level to justify inclusion into Esports.

Well, thanks for the brutal honesty.
This leaves us with the opportunity to do some research and for you to view some matches for yourself, during their next event broadcast.
Until then, your ignorance is forgiven, as far as I am concerned.  🙂 

[Jakob Knight]

10 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

To be brutally honest, I have NOT seen any KOTS matches, I made a general assumption about them being the "higher level play", given the fact that they're tournaments based on Ranked Play, which seemed a lot more competitive, given the bans and restrictions on meta ships. So forgive my ignorance when it comes to KOTS events. That said, I don't think World of Warships is Esports-ready or compatible yet, and THAT argument of mine still stands as-is. World of Warships' game balance is not, in my honest opinion, at THAT level to justify inclusion into Esports.

 

In truth, I think WG tried to make WOWS fit into an eSports container and found out that it doesn't fit, so they decided to cut off most of what makes it WOWS to make it fit and present that to the world rather than admit it.  

 

And of course there are Queens of the Sea.  You just don't see them because they are behind the Kings with their scepters stuck in the small of the Kings' backs to remind them who run Bartertown. 

Edited February 29 by Jakob Knight

[Sailor_Moon]

8 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Well, thanks for the brutal honesty.
This leaves us with the opportunity to do some research and for you to view some matches for yourself, during their next event broadcast.
Until then, your ignorance is forgiven, as far as I am concerned.  🙂 

You're welcome! And honestly, I could care less about watching KOTS matches XD

I have far more important things to do right now. 😅

[Wolfswetpaws]

45 minutes ago, Sailor_Moon said:

You're welcome! And honestly, I could care less about watching KOTS matches XD

I have far more important things to do right now. 😅

Suddenly, I'm curious about the "important things".  🙂 
 
 

[Sailor_Moon]

2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Suddenly, I'm curious about the "important things".  🙂 
 
 

Stuff way more important than watching KOTS matches lols

Nothing more than that, really.

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 minutes ago, Sailor_Moon said:

Stuff way more important than watching KOTS matches lols

Nothing more than that, really.

Okay.  🙂 
My imagination ran wild for a bit.  Glad I can safely ignore thoughts like "It's nearly springtime and maybe there are new little Sailors in your life".
Moving along.  🙂 

[Sailor_Moon]

5 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Okay.  🙂 
My imagination ran wild for a bit.  Glad I can safely ignore thoughts like "It's nearly springtime and maybe there are new little Sailors in your life".
Moving along.  🙂 

You have quite the umm....uhh...active imagination....only Rini

[BOBTHEBALL]

8 minutes ago, Sailor_Moon said:

You have quite the umm....uhh...active imagination....only Rini

Sus

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

 

[Jakob Knight]

I don't have a high opinion of KOTS, but even I think this is a bad move.  That I can agree with Flamu's comments has to be a red flag of just how bad an idea this is.

[Sailor_Moon]

13 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Sus

[SolitudeFreak]

3 minutes ago, Sailor_Moon said:

[Admiral_Karasu]

On 2/28/2024 at 11:35 PM, Wulf_Ace said:

To say the truth I dont care if they make only pro teams IF their games are fun to watch but they are NEVER fun to watch.

Sorry to say but Kots is ultra boring tournament

Like watching league of legends tournaments with pro teams only, bit guess what they are fun to watch not to mention they always try something new, new heroes or new gameplay.

In wows Kots, same ships, same tactics, same players, same boring gameplay.

Could we at least give them the benefit of the doubt and say it represents the highest most boring level of game play available?

[BOBTHEBALL]

3 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

I'm never sus

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

4 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Could we at least give them the benefit of the doubt and say it represents the highest most boring level of game play available?

No, not really.

[Wolfswetpaws]

6 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

From a certain perspective, I'm reminded of the phrase "Here's mud in yer eye".  😉 

[_KlRlTO_]

At one time my clan was a Typhoon clan. The most competitive-interested players left to find opportunities to get into Hurricane clan families (With mixed results). The rest of us still made Storm. Then we made Gale. Now we don't play clan battles at all. When we made Gale last season, we were playing well enough to make Storm, but we didn't The reason we didn't is that we just didn't play often enough. WG is using the same basic format over and over in Clan Battles now, and it's become obvious that they are doing it as recruiting grounds for their would-be E-sport. The thing is: the format is boring. That is why we stopped playing and haven't played this season at all. Clan Battles are boring compared to Randoms and all the PvE modes. 

[Sailor_Moon]

23 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

I'm never sus

No, I'm Pink, you're Yellow. lols 😛

[Zysyss]

15 hours ago, _KlRlTO_ said:

At one time my clan was a Typhoon clan. The most competitive-interested players left to find opportunities to get into Hurricane clan families (With mixed results). The rest of us still made Storm. Then we made Gale. Now we don't play clan battles at all. When we made Gale last season, we were playing well enough to make Storm, but we didn't The reason we didn't is that we just didn't play often enough. WG is using the same basic format over and over in Clan Battles now, and it's become obvious that they are doing it as recruiting grounds for their would-be E-sport. The thing is: the format is boring. That is why we stopped playing and haven't played this season at all. Clan Battles are boring compared to Randoms and all the PvE modes. 

You may find clan battles boring, but there are many of us who do not. There are also many of us who find KoTs to be fun also. We like the competitive parts of the game and spend time learning and practicing. If you you do not that is fine and your choice, but we also have a choice and we choose to enjoy those competitive parts of the game. 

Edited March 2 by Zysyss

[3LUE]

16 hours ago, _KlRlTO_ said:

At one time my clan was a Typhoon clan. The most competitive-interested players left to find opportunities to get into Hurricane clan families (With mixed results). The rest of us still made Storm. Then we made Gale. Now we don't play clan battles at all. When we made Gale last season, we were playing well enough to make Storm, but we didn't The reason we didn't is that we just didn't play often enough. WG is using the same basic format over and over in Clan Battles now, and it's become obvious that they are doing it as recruiting grounds for their would-be E-sport. The thing is: the format is boring. That is why we stopped playing and haven't played this season at all. Clan Battles are boring compared to Randoms and all the PvE modes. 

I think WG has started to understand they need a part of the game that is more for the competitive players and not for the players who only want to go pew pew with their guns. This is why kots is becoming invite only and you need to do things that get you the invite. I do not think this is an esport thing, but more for a selective part of the game for those competitive players. Some of you may find clan battles and kots boring, but as Zysyss has post many do find them fun. 

30 minutes ago, Zysyss said:

You may find clan battles boring, but there are many of us who do not. There are also many of us who find KoTs to be fun also. We like the competitive parts of the game and spend time learning and practicing. If you you do not that is fine and your choice, but we also have a choice and we choose to enjoy those competitive parts of the game. 

Agree 100%

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

2 hours ago, Zysyss said:

You may find clan battles boring, but there are many of us who do not. There are also many of us who find KoTs to be fun also. We like the competitive parts of the game and spend time learning and practicing. If you you do not that is fine and your choice, but we also have a choice and we choose to enjoy those competitive parts of the game. 

Oh, for sure.

You guys need to have a place to play with an expectation of skill and performance.

Of course, a game that utilizes so much RNG does make a bit of a mockery of the idea that skill is the determining factor...

...and the fact that most competitive setups exclude 40% of the actual game in order to keep it fun, does lead to the conclusion that KotS just isn't actually World of Warships...and playing that format does not earn any respect for being a good World of Warships player.

All these issues need to be addressed by WG before the competitive scene around here is not viewed as a joke.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

34 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Of course, a game that utilizes so much RNG does make a bit of a mockery of the idea that skill is the determining factor...

So tell me then why we see the same top teams vying for the top places all the time. If it were RNG-based, we should see a variety of teams winning. 

35 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

most competitive setups exclude 40% of the actual game

Because subs and carriers are grossly overpowered in the context of small teams on voice comms in a whole-team division, but the game is balanced around 3-man divs in 12 man teams.