Ship Service Fees Am I Missing Something ?

[tm63au]

I know its always been pretty bad at higher Tiers but took my Prinz Rupprecht into randoms for the first time last night and just by chance I decided to look over the credits and XP screen after one of the three battles I played in her and nearly fell off my chair .

 

I earned a total of about 215 thousand credits but had to pay about 137 thousand in services and ammo leaving me just under 90 thousand to bank and that was only due to the fact I had premium time or it would have been worse.

 

I have been working the Prinz up in Coop all this and never looked at the money screen so I had to be losing money in Coop.

 

And WG wants us playing these high Tiers including Cough Cough Super ships (  Tier 11 ) Cough Cough, are they serious considering the service fees, they were never good at high Tier for fees but did I miss the memo on the inflation price hike.

 

By the way lost all 3 games in random just to finish this disaster night off       

 

 

 

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

I notice you also have bonuses and discounts there, so without those and the premium account you would have made a loss.

Here's the Wiki page with the formulas:

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:The_Economics_of_Battle

[Type_93]

59 minutes ago, tm63au said:

Coop

There’s your problem. You don’t make squat in Co-op, even if you do well. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

2 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

There’s your problem. You don’t make squat in Co-op, even if you do well. 

Makes you almost think there is some sinister reason behind it, doesn't it?

[Efros]

Yeah to earn in T10s you have to be running premium time at least, even then it will require a decent game to break a profit. Take out a star ship in COOP and see how that goes for profit.

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, tm63au said:

I know its always been pretty bad at higher Tiers but took my Prinz Rupprecht into randoms for the first time last night and just by chance I decided to look over the credits and XP screen after one of the three battles I played in her and nearly fell off my chair .

 

I earned a total of about 215 thousand credits but had to pay about 137 thousand in services and ammo leaving me just under 90 thousand to bank and that was only due to the fact I had premium time or it would have been worse.

 

I have been working the Prinz up in Coop all this and never looked at the money screen so I had to be losing money in Coop.

 

And WG wants us playing these high Tiers including Cough Cough Super ships (  Tier 11 ) Cough Cough, are they serious considering the service fees, they were never good at high Tier for fees but did I miss the memo on the inflation price hike.

 

By the way lost all 3 games in random just to finish this disaster night off       

 

 

 

 

If one is *hungry* for credits, then I suggest playing a high-tier premium ship, while using premium-account-time, in a random battle and performing decently.

If slightly less hungry for credits, then I suggest sailing a premium ship while using premium-account-time in scenario operations and performing decently.

If you're willing to have a slow and steady earning of credits, then a decently played premium ship with premium-account-time in a Co-op battle is okay.

But if you want to lose credits, then don't run premium account time and sail a tech-tree ship or a super-ship (Tier-11), in a Co-op battle.

Edit:  For giggles, one can play a Tier-1 ship for modest and steady earnings.  The Tier-1 ships don't have service costs, if I remember correctly.

Edited February 12 by Wolfswetpaws

[Admiral_Karasu]

49 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

If one is *hungry* for credits, then I suggest playing a high-tier premium ship, while using premium-account-time, in a random battle and performing decently.

If slightly less hungry for credits, then I suggest sailing a premium ship while using premium-account-time in scenario operations and performing decently.

If you're willing to have a slow and steady earning of credits, then a decently played premium ship with premium-account-time in a Co-op battle is okay.

But if you want to lose credits, then don't run premium account time and sail a tech-tree ship or a super-ship (Tier-11), in a Co-op battle.

Edit:  For giggles, one can play a Tier-1 ship for modest and steady earnings.  The Tier-1 ships don't have service costs, if I remember correctly.

Taking notes here... just one question, is there a reason why I would want to lose credits?

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

Best tiers for credit earning as free2play without premium ships are 5-8.

[ArIskandir]

There's nothing new there, the game design has always been aimed to strongarm you into opening your wallet to progress beyond T8. There are some work arounds once you learn how to work the system in your favor, but try it without Clan bonuses, Signal bonuses, Premium ship bonuses, PT, etc... When coupled to how the game is designed to punish you for not playing high tiers, the more insidious side of the game is revealed.

Edited February 12 by ArIskandir

[Admiral_Karasu]

50 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

There's nothing new there, the game design has always been aimed to strongarm you into opening your wallet to progress beyond T8. There are some work arounds once you learn how to work the system in your favor, but try it without Clan bonuses, Signal bonuses, Premium ship bonuses, PT, etc... When coupled to how the game is designed to punish you for not playing high tiers, the more insidious side of the game is revealed.

The cheapest way to 'experience' high tier game play is to head to the PTS. However, I don't go there that often these days, but when I do I sort of get the feeling it is not as populated now as what used to be the case.

[Helstrem]

1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Taking notes here... just one question, is there a reason why I would want to lose credits?

Because you want to play a ship that happens to lose credits?  In the original economy of the game Tier X almost always lost credits and you needed a good game to break even in Tier IX.  The game was designed to make you play Tier VII and VIII to earn credits, better yet Tier VII and VIII premium ships (there were no Tier IX premium ships) to make credits to be able to play Tier IX and X.  It keeps tiers below top tier populated, at least to a degree.

Superships are a return to that idea.

Edited February 12 by Helstrem

[Nevermore135]

1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

There's nothing new there, the game design has always been aimed to strongarm you into opening your wallet to progress beyond T8. There are some work arounds once you learn how to work the system in your favor, but try it without Clan bonuses, Signal bonuses, Premium ship bonuses, PT, etc... When coupled to how the game is designed to punish you for not playing high tiers, the more insidious side of the game is revealed.

The strategy also served to keep the lower and mid tier queues populated. This still works somewhat at mid tiers, but the gradual proliferation of ways to apply economic boosts prior to the economic rework resulted in an overall shift towards higher tiers.

Edited February 12 by Nevermore135

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

The strategy also served to keep the lower and mid tier queues populated. This still works somewhat at mid tiers, but the gradual proliferation of ways to apply economic boosts prior to the economic rework resulted in an overall shift towards higher tiers.

They shot that strategy on the foot the moment they started releasing high tier Freemiums. T9-T10 Coal & Steel ships meant F2P got irrestricted access to play as much T10 as they wanted without needing to open the wallet. As @Helstrem points out, they released T11 as a return to the original idea of having consistent use of "Max Power" veiled behind a paywall. 

Edited February 12 by ArIskandir

[Nevermore135]

Just now, ArIskandir said:

They shoot that strategy on the foot the moment they started releasing high tier Freemiums. T9-T10 Coal & Steel ships meant F2P got irrestructed access to play as much T10 as they wanted without needing to open the wallet. As @Helstrem points out, they released T11 as a return to the original idea of having consistent use of "Max Power" veiled behind a paywall. 

Indeed. Hence my assertion that it still only somewhat works at keeping the mid tiers populated (and low tiers are a ghost town).

[Ensign Cthulhu]

31 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

"Max Power" veiled behind a paywall

Or at the very least, a wall of "learn to watch your credits and stack some up for a T11 session".

It's disproportionately easier to earn XP and get yourself to that next ship than it is to earn the credits to pay for that ship, IF grinding that ship is all you do. This problem is magnified with every additional ship you have in the grind list. The "credit crunch" has been made worse over the last four or five years by Snowflakes and a steady drip-feed of port slots disincentivizing the selling of ground-out ships at Tier 5 or higher.

As a co-op player, I solved the problem by only playing a small number of ships for a small amount of XP per day, doing the rest of whatever's going on with premiums and free-miums (coal, steel, RP, FXP when that was a thing). Rushed power-grinds are a rare thing for me now, and have mostly been synchronized with Dockyards or similar events where short-burst, high-intensity PVP grinding is the order of the day anyway.

If I do particularly horribly in a co-op battle, I'll usually take out a premium ship or two to make back the losses. That doesn't take long. 

 

Too much emphasis is placed by famous streamers on demonstrating how to make e-peen-waving levels of damage and kills, and too little placed on HOW TO MANAGE YOUR FINANCES AND YOUR PORT.

If you want to have enough credits to buy and play that shiny T11, you have to "mow the lawns" at lower tiers. It's as simple as that. 

[ArIskandir]

12 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

If you want to have enough credits to buy and play that shiny T11, you have to "mow the lawns" at lower tiers. It's as simple as that. 

That was the theory, but that principle comes undone the moment it is possible to flat out open your wallet an play as much T11 as you like. I'm not one to worry about what someone else does with their money, if they want to spend it that way, cool. Pay-to-advance faster is one thing (I'm OK with that) but when a competitive PvP advantage is sold without an alternative F2P path to achieve the same result, then I get pricky. 

At least on the previous scheme any F2P player with a T10 Freemium and some economy knowledge could play as much T10 matches as anyone else, if that's what they wanted.  That was a fair system. I can't say the same about the current T11, there's no alternative F2P path to enjoy the same privilege. 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

2 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I can't say the same about the current T11, there's no alternative F2P path to enjoy the same privilege. 

I don't know why I would buy a T11 ship. I've tried them all in PTS. I don't feel the need for ANY of them. They bore me, and they don't scare me enough to make me feel like I need one of my own in order to fight against them. 

It's not much of a privilege as far as I'm concerned. People waving their e-peens that they have enough credits to run one. 

[ArIskandir]

6 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I don't know why I would buy a T11 ship. I've tried them all in PTS. I don't feel the need for ANY of them. They bore me, and they don't scare me enough to make me feel like I need one of my own in order to fight against them. 

It's not much of a privilege as far as I'm concerned. People waving their e-peens that they have enough credits to run one. 

I neither find any allure on playing T11, but the monetization principle at work there rubs me the wrong way. Games are choke full of Power-players (I call them munchkins), you know those guys that play only selected strong-ships with all the attached bonuses money can buy, riding the meta of the moment. You know, those guys that claim X ship is "terrible", they see "no point in playing it", etc.. even if such ship offers a unique and/or interesting playstyle. Something like T11 panders to that demographic. 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

1 minute ago, ArIskandir said:

Games are choke full of Power-players (I call them munchkins), you know those guys that play only selected strong-ships with all the attached bonuses money can buy, riding the meta of the moment.

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

Like I said, they're paying for the WOWS equivalent of taking their tackle out in public and showing it to everyone.

Let them. Then point and laugh.

[Snargfargle]

3 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I don't know why I would buy a T11 ship.

I've got one "star" ship. I got it because I wanted to see what types of planes WG had put on the United States. I play it only during the "snowflake" event. This is why: I just took it into a Random with a 40% credit booster and a Premium account. I came in fourth on the team. I suffered a net loss of 155,000 credits. Conversely, I took my Massachusetts out with whatever eco boosts come stock on the ship plus I probably paid for a few signals that were used up. Came in second on the team and made 400,000 credits..

 

 

 

[Helstrem]

I will say the permanent econ bonus superships get makes grinding elite captain XP markedly faster if you're OK with spending some credits.  I have the package on Satsuma and having +200%, 100% higher than Tier IX/X and 150% (or 400% depending on which way you're looking at it) higher than Tier VIII and below makes the FXP and CXP pile up fast.

[BOBTHEBALL]

Verrrry interesting, extremely interesting to be honest.

[BOBTHEBALL]

9 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Best tiers for credit earning as free2play without premium ships are 5-8.

Do remember you can get a free tier 9 premium ship with coal after grinding credits in lower tier TT ships for a couple months. Then you should have no credit problems after that. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Type_93 said:

There’s your problem. You don’t make squat in Co-op, even if you do well. 

he didnt mention co-op 

quote : t took my Prinz Rupprecht into randoms for the first time last night 

and even if he did . ive always made decent credits from co-op  

 

Edited February 12 by Gaelic_knight

[SunkCostFallacy]

8 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

The cheapest way to 'experience' high tier game play is to head to the PTS. However, I don't go there that often these days, but when I do I sort of get the feeling it is not as populated now as what used to be the case.

I uninstalled the PTS last year because it had become very clear that WG weren't paying any attention to feedback.

 

7 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

They shot that strategy on the foot the moment they started releasing high tier Freemiums.

Bingo!

Once I bought the Salem for coal ... I had simultaneously found the ship that best suits my playstyle (and which I have huge fun in) and also found a way to not lose money in Tier X.

I got carried away with it, and next thing I knew I'd racked up over a billion credits and, because I don't need to use econ boosters on the Salem, I had a huge store of them as well.

Now I've got XP boosters on the tech tree ships I'm grinding through and don't care if they make or lose money on the way.

BUT (obviously there's a but) with WG doing everything they can to nerf the economy ... I have to wonder if a new player could find themselves in the same place I'm at ... or if they just can't get there these days.