Bomont Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 7 hours ago, Gnirf said: So everything you do in life is time is money? I understand that philosophy, but where do you draw the line or do you have any? Petting your cat, playing with your children spending an evening at the pub with friends? It is the same thing. I work to live life, and I have a decent job to do it OK but for you, your philosophy can be intepreted as live to work. I do calculate time in my decisions sometimes but on many hobbies no - their cost are just there. I gladly pay the cost to have my cat. Likewise I have training membership. You know doing things that you like brings positive energy and get you physically and mentally stronger which makes your working hours more productive and hopefully more lucrative. Playing WoWs does that to me. Likewise gambling with a known chance distribution will get a certain outcome in the long run, sometimes it is good most of the times on WG it is not so but each player must decide. That is why I spend most of my cash on Santas Crates, I have more or less all low draws so there is only the high ships left and 20 boxes/40 or what I need to get most of the ships I lack. The boosters that I get saves time (money in your terms). Your equation might be different. To get tech tree ships are bad value for most veteran players but for a newer player that has not been inclined to try out PA line but have decent experience in other nations the reward is better. You do not have to spend time on T 1-7 but get a ecobonus and T8 ship for a fresh start in that line. For me it is probably pass this time (a first), I have a few T8 bonus packages in store so not needed. Well I can put it on a sub/CV but that is meaningless for me. But I wait until the end of update for final call. I just told my wife I'd do the dishes as soon as she paid me for my time at my normal rate from work. I'm not sure that was a good idea... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 22 minutes ago, Bomont said: I just told my wife I'd do the dishes as soon as she paid me for my time at my normal rate from work. I'm not sure that was a good idea... You're saying this through a Ouija Board, aren't you? 😈 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clammboy Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 11 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: I also value loot boxes very negatively due to their toxic influence on society and in this game. I would think that of all the things we do and use in our daily lives loot boxes would be at the bottom of the list of things that are toxic to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 13 minutes ago, clammboy said: I would think that of all the things we do and use in our daily lives loot boxes would be at the bottom of the list of things that are toxic to society. What's your point? Do you think I need to align my moral viewpoints with yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clammboy Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Lol no you don't want to do that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor3006 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, Bomont said: I just told my wife I'd do the dishes as soon as she paid me for my time at my normal rate from work. I'm not sure that was a good idea... Every time I get uppity with the wife, she flashes me to remind me why I do the dishes (and whatever else that needs doing).. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clammboy Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 11 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said: Every time I get uppity with the wife, she flashes me to remind me why I do the dishes (and whatever else that needs doing).. Your a lucky man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, Taylor3006 said: Every time I get uppity with the wife, she flashes me to remind me why I do the dishes (and whatever else that needs doing).. That works... ...and also her reminder that she already paid for the husband work, for the rest of married life. 😛 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDuckman Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 21 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said: does not change the fact that those crates are still a game of chance ... even if handed out for "free" Listen to yourself. You get *free stuff* but it's eevil because exactly what *free stuff* you get is randomized. I'd say you have a problem with your axioms. Might you be hung up on 'equity'? Edited February 9 by iDuckman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnirf Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 6 hours ago, Bomont said: I just told my wife I'd do the dishes as soon as she paid me for my time at my normal rate from work. I'm not sure that was a good idea... Soon the pleasure funds have been transfered to your new status as Employer Edited February 9 by Gnirf 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBTHEBALL Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 2/8/2024 at 3:58 AM, o4x4 said: Summary for 13.1: 5-week patch, need 500 points to complete. 75 points for each extra level. Free line has only 1 port, same 1200 steel and 12000 coal as 4-week patch but got 10 Journey to West Premium boxes as final reward. Can get 975 points for playing (35 days * 25 points + 5 weeks * 20 points). WG will need to throw in 50 more points to make it possible to get 7 extra levels. So while less free resources per week, the 10% drop premium boxes will definitely bring ships to lucky ones. Until they offer more steel into the paid BP or a cool prem I won't be buying. I know I have bad RNG when it comes to containers but I still think the free BP in this case is quite nice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 8 hours ago, iDuckman said: Listen to yourself. You get *free stuff* but it's eevil because exactly what *free stuff* you get is randomized. I'd say you have a problem with your axioms. Might you be hung up on 'equity'? Ah yes, just because WG claims it's free...you believe them. Then, you use different definitions of free to make snarky comments about someone else's valuation of the rewards... particularly in a situation where the reward could be highly variable in value and potentially zero or less than zero to them. And you expect your comments to be persuasive? Guys, being condescending and dismissive doesn't make us look smart...and it doesn't make the target of our bullying (because that's what it is) more likely to agree with us. I know WG encourages this kind of toxic communication on Discord and with their CMs...but WG is wrong, and they do this not as a means to have a constructive conversation...but as a means to crowd out and silence inconvenient truths from the conversation. Do know, that if we engage in this kind of discussion tactics, our audience can and should just ignore us as trolls. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Ruka Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 9 hours ago, iDuckman said: Listen to yourself. You get *free stuff* but it's eevil because exactly what *free stuff* you get is randomized. I'd say you have a problem with your axioms. Might you be hung up on 'equity'? well if I get something I do not want for free, then my effort was wasted. with these boxes, that is exactly the problem. I cannot really determine if it will be worth investing time until I have opened it. imagine there are people that have more premium time than they will ever use in the game. and premium time drops from the box for them ... was the effort they invested worth it ? clearly not. free sh1t is still sh1t ... yes you have people that will play the game regardless and all the rewards are on top of their enjoyment of the game ... but that is clearly not the case for everybody ... Edited February 9 by Hugh_Ruka 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 2 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: our audience can and should just ignore us as trolls. And why is this not how I should regard you? As I see it, you started by altering the commonly understood definition of 'free' to exclude anything obtained by even the slightest effort that you put into this game, now you've arbitrarily redefined the value of what you receive according to your personal biases and a claimed moral high ground centred on your (highly subjective) opinion of what is 'toxic to society'. Holy shifting goalposts, Batman. You're backpedalling toward the corner labelled "unfalsifiable hypothesis", which is where untenable positions go to die. 1 hour ago, Hugh_Ruka said: well if I get something I do not want for free, then my effort was wasted. with these boxes, that is exactly the problem. I cannot really determine if it will be worth investing time until I have opened it. You will have more than you did before opening the boxes. What value you choose to attach to it depends on your expectations. If nothing less than a particular ship will satisfy you, disappointment is a likely destination. Short of every box containing nothing but camos, WHICH THEY CAN'T... ...I'm not sure how you can possibly lose out. So tell me... which of the possible rewards to receive in these ten boxes is so worthless to you that you would rather not have it, and why? For the record, 10 rolls of a 10 percent chance to get a ship adds up to a ~ 65% chance of getting at least one, because the chances of not getting one 10 rolls in a row are 0.910, or 0.3486784401 Edited February 9 by Ensign Cthulhu 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 16 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: ...I'm not sure how you can possibly lose out. So tell me... which of the possible rewards to receive in these ten boxes is so worthless to you that you would rather not have it, and why? OMG, you must have missed Math 101 at the University mate.... Naught plus Naught equal Naught........ Good Lord mate, it's a universal constant.... This is the way.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: And why is this not how I should regard you? As I see it, you started by altering the commonly understood definition of 'free' to exclude anything obtained by even the slightest effort that you put into this game, now you've arbitrarily redefined the value of what you receive according to your personal biases and a claimed moral high ground centred on your (highly subjective) opinion of what is 'toxic to society'. Holy shifting goalposts, Batman. You're backpedalling toward the corner labelled "unfalsifiable hypothesis", which is where untenable positions go to die. Politely... The above is a strawman you created and is not my position on value. So, there is no point in responding beyond the above statement. See here for where we have discussed this at length and everyone can actually see my positions, from me. https://www.devstrike.net/topic/2655-what-is-the-definition-of-free-in-wows/ Edited February 9 by Daniel_Allan_Clark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 2/8/2024 at 9:03 AM, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: I also value loot boxes very negatively due to their toxic influence on society and in this game. They are not attractive rewards to me at all. These are your words regarding your valuation of lootboxes in the context of your moral position. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDuckman Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 5 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said: was the effort they invested worth it ? If there was an investment, then it wasn't free. You're responding to an argument I didn't make. There. Do you feel bullied? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashed68 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Just noticed this BP includes a tier 6 bonus package. F yeah. I've wanted a premium Bayern for a long time now, a free bonus package seems like the closest I'm gonna get lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verytis Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 17 hours ago, Asym said: OMG, you must have missed Math 101 at the University mate.... Naught plus Naught equal Naught........ Good Lord mate, it's a universal constant.... This is the way.... Those 10 premium containers have an expected value of: 1 ship, out of 4 possible drops. 625 doubloons 10k coal 32k fxp 109k cxp Ship's value will depend on personal taste, but being cheap clones they can always be melt down for credits. I'm sure the older veterans and whales have no need for most of these, but they aren't exactly bad for an average player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, Verytis said: Those 10 premium containers have an expected value of: 1 ship, out of 4 possible drops. 625 doubloons 10k coal 32k fxp 109k cxp Ship's value will depend on personal taste, but being cheap clones they can always be melt down for credits. I'm sure the older veterans and whales have no need for most of these, but they aren't exactly bad for an average player. Assuming that WGs stated drop rates are what is actually applied... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clammboy Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 23 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said: imagine there are people that have more premium time than they will ever use in the game. and premium time drops from the box for them ... was the effort they invested worth it ? clearly not. free sh1t is still sh1t ... yes you have people that will play the game regardless and all the rewards are on top of their enjoyment of the game ... but that is clearly not the case for everybody ... I don't really understand what are these other people playing for? Are they playing just for the rewards and consider everything a waste of time unless they get something good for playing? That kind of sets you up to be disappointed most of the time no? Edited February 10 by clammboy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 3 minutes ago, clammboy said: I don't really understand what are these other people playing for? Are they playing just for the rewards and consider everything a waste of time unless they get something good for playing? That kind of sets you up to be disappointed most of the time no? I figure that some players (who were around when the Pan-Asian Cruiser early-access event was a new thing) won't find much worth getting excited about in the current battle-pass. But, for newer players or those who have gaps in their Pan-Asian line that they want to fill-in, the 2024 Lunar New Year battle-pass has a few items that might be of interest. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in principle. That said, no one is being forced to spend doubloons, eh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, clammboy said: I don't really understand what are these other people playing for? Are they playing just for the rewards and consider everything a waste of time unless they get something good for playing? That kind of sets you up to be disappointed most of the time no? Do you really have to understand them? Does their needs and wants have to align with your way of thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clammboy Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 10 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: Do you really have to understand them? Does their needs and wants have to align with your way of thinking? Yes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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