WoWs Devblog 13.1 - New ships, upcoming changes.

[Jakob Knight]

2 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

So even more submarine buffs than teased. Lol. 

 

Not sure what you are referring to.

 

* Submarine Surveillance Added To Certain Cruiser Lines - the only change here was that they were installing them on the IJN Light Cruiser line rather than the Heavy Cruiser line.  That's sort of in keeping with the concept of CLs being escort/support Cruisers, but it isn't a buff to Subs in any form I can see.  Note that apparently they changed the post since yesterday and now BOTH the Yodo and Zao lines will be getting this consumable.

 

* Hydrophone able to detect surface units at Periscope or Surfaced depth but not Operational or lower - no real change here except you can burn your Hydrophone without getting any benefit.

 

* Sub Hydrophone will now detect ships behind cover, but will not get more than a flash of a contact.  Will show a snapshot unmoving silhouette of a detected ship in LOS for several seconds - about the only change here is the ability to detect contacts through terrain, which was already an announced change coming.

 

*Venezia and Hindenburg lines changing depth charges to air strike depth charges - this is a buff to the -Submarines- ?

 

* Collision Warning so Subs within 2km will automatically know there is another Sub with 2km instead of being oblivious to that - again, this is a buff?  Also previously as announced.

 

So, I'm not seeing much that wasn't as announced already and none of those are what I would call buffs to Subs.

 

Note also they already said changes will be rolled out over several updates, so these might only be the first ones, not the only ones.

 

Edit:  the only new buffs might be with the flag effects they added, but the increasing of the number of lines with the Submarine Surveillance consumable more than counters this, I would think.

Edited January 5 by Jakob Knight

[Crokodone]

10 hours ago, armory said:

yes, they are improving camouflage. from temporary to permanent. for gold . and .... the final 

You obviously missed the credit part, and it's voluntary.... It's not like the article cannot be reread.

Edited January 5 by Crokodone

[Itwastuesday]

11 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

Not sure what you are referring to.

* Hydrophone able to detect surface units at Periscope or Surfaced depth but not Operational or lower - no real change here except you can burn your Hydrophone without getting any benefit.

Okay. Maybe read it again.

[Crokodone]

Regarding the changes to Submarines, I don't like the proximity detection scheme, and the 6s stationary silhouette for surface hydro makes use for target acquisition and estimation improbable. I really wish WG would eliminate the Silhouette and allow surface Hydro to function like it's surface Combatant counterpart. Especially with giving Sub detection to other ships and the proliferation of Depth Charge Aircraft, it's still stacking the cards against subs without compensation. The 20% tighter turning underwater is only relevant if the dive capacity and Submerged speed is high enough. Ship launched DC's will still be mostly inescapable for any t6-8 submarine.

Meanwhile People keep spreading false information for WG's defamation regarding camo's so I'll post this here:

This is very similar to what I thought WG would do when they first made changes to camouflage. It's a welcome change; although some of those prices exceed ships in their tier range. At least I can avoid the historically inaccurate camos for more accurate camouflage like MS-21, Shadow Lurker and Meritorious Service.

 

 

[Jakob Knight]

53 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Okay. Maybe read it again.

 

Maybe you should detail what you mean rather than attempting to evade the question.  I've put forth my points, and it is now customary in conversation for you to reciprocate so we can have a dialogue instead of simple avoidance of discussion.

 

Edit:  In the interest of furthing a discussion rather than oblique statements, I am taking your advice and reading it again...

 

"The consumable will allow Subs to immediately spot ships in range, regardless of terrain (similar to Hydroacoustic Search and Surveillance Radar).  The consumable can be activated at any state (on the surface, at periscope depth or operational depth), but will only detect ships at periscope depth or on the surface.  When a Sub uses Hydrophone to detect ships above them and in their line of sight, static silhouettes of these ships will appear for a short period.  Ships behind terrain will be displayed as a short flash without a silhouette."

 

Okay, so the Sub will get detection at any depth, which I misunderstood.  That's pretty much how it works currently anyway.  The inclusion of being able to detect targets behind terrain was already announced, though, so I still don't see this as a buff we weren't aware of.

Edited January 5 by Jakob Knight

[Itwastuesday]

11 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

Maybe you should detail what you mean rather than attempting to evade the question.  I've put forth my points, and it is now customary in conversation for you to reciprocate so we can have a dialogue instead of simple avoidance of discussion.

 

 

Okay.

Next, we have some additional information about changes to the Hydrophone consumable available on submarines. This consumable will have the following characteristics:

• The consumable will allow submarines to immediately spot ships in range, regardless of terrain (similar to Hydroacoustic Search and Surveillance Radar).

Immediately spot like hydro or radar. Meaning the likes of Gato can radar destroyers and other ships from their 2.07 conceal.

[Jakob Knight]

Just now, Itwastuesday said:

Okay.

Next, we have some additional information about changes to the Hydrophone consumable available on submarines. This consumable will have the following characteristics:

• The consumable will allow submarines to immediately spot ships in range, regardless of terrain (similar to Hydroacoustic Search and Surveillance Radar).

Immediately spot like hydro or radar. Meaning the likes of Gato can radar destroyers and other ships from their 2.07 conceal.

 

See my edited reply please.

[Jakob Knight]

Here is the previous announcement for those who missed it:

 

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/general-news/upcoming-changes-to-aircraft-carriers-and-submarines/

 

 

[Itwastuesday]

24 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

See my edited reply please.

Right.

39 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

Okay, so the Sub will get detection at any depth, which I misunderstood.  That's pretty much how it works currently anyway.  The inclusion of being able to detect targets behind terrain was already announced, though, so I still don't see this as a buff we weren't aware of.

Unless by 'spot' and 'like hydro/radar' they mean something entirely different, I read it simply as spots like hydro or radar.

[Kynami]

1 hour ago, Jakob Knight said:

Note that apparently they changed the post since yesterday and now BOTH the Yodo and Zao lines will be getting this consumable.

As it should be. Since essentially the Zao line at least has plane based ASW the whole trip up that branch of the tech tree. Yodo tech line emphatically does not want to be in close enough to the sub to actually use their roll-offs that every ship before the Yodo is stuck with. The original post had mentioned both IJN lines so the apparent adjustment the other day to being only the light cruiser line was incensing at the time.

[Jakob Knight]

3 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

 

Unless by 'spot' and 'like hydro/radar' they mean something entirely different, I read it simply as spots like hydro or radar.

 

Nope.  Radar and Hydro give a clear, continuous picture on the target which makes it easy to target with.  Sub hydro is a snapshot static image where you have to guess where the target actually is and where it's going.  The new change won't even give you that if the target is behind cover, just a ping that won't tell you what it was doing when you got the return.

 

What will change is that Zao the Sub detects can now ping back with SS consumable and drop an airstrike on the Sub.

 

 

[Jakob Knight]

3 minutes ago, Kynami said:

As it should be. Since essentially the Zao line at least has plane based ASW the whole trip up that branch of the tech tree. Yodo tech line emphatically does not want to be in close enough to the sub to actually use their roll-offs that every ship before the Yodo is stuck with. The original post had mentioned both IJN lines so the apparent adjustment the other day to being only the light cruiser line was incensing at the time.

I suspect it was a typo they didn't catch until the players made note of it.

 

[Itwastuesday]

7 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

Nope.  Radar and Hydro give a clear, continuous picture on the target which makes it easy to target with.  Sub hydro is a snapshot static image where you have to guess where the target actually is and where it's going.  The new change won't even give you that if the target is behind cover, just a ping that won't tell you what it was doing when you got the return.

I know what they do, and they say the consumable will spot ships like hydro or radar, which is nothing at all like what it does now. 

[armory]

I realized that all camouflages will gradually become permanent. and permanent camouflages are not allowed to be sold. This means the “Property” department will become even more useless. and the players' income is reduced...

[Jakob Knight]

41 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

I know what they do, and they say the consumable will spot ships like hydro or radar, which is nothing at all like what it does now. 

 

Context is important in this case.  The note is:  "The consumable will allow Submarines to immediately spot ships in range, regardless of terrain (similar to Hydroacoustic Search and Surveillance Radar)".  The similarity (note it does not say identicality) is in regards to not being blocked by terrain as it currently is.  The Blog Post then goes on to detail exactly how it differs from those two other consumables, further clarifying that it is not the same except in the one shared characteristic that terrain does not block all three.

 

 

Edited January 5 by Jakob Knight

[Itwastuesday]

27 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

Context is important in this case.  The note is:  "The consumable will allow Submarines to immediately spot ships in range, regardless of terrain (similar to Hydroacoustic Search and Surveillance Radar)".  The similarity (note it does not say identicality) is in regards to not being blocked by terrain as it currently is.  The Blog Post then goes on to detail exactly how it differs from those two other consumables, further clarifying that it is not the same except in the one shared characteristic that terrain does not block all three.

It doesn't spot anything now, though. But you're hopefully right, given the more detailed blogpost.

[WES_HoundDog]

6 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Is there a significant difference in the projectiles (weight, fuse-time) or the muzzle velocity?

Specifics of the Spanish ship are unknown since WG only puts minimal info on dev blog.  I get most info from Shiptool which doesn't have it yet.    The shell is much slower and hits for more is about all that is known.

[Wrath_of_Deadguy]

I wonder if the camo rework will finally allow players to assign permas to T1-5 ships. That'd be nice, even if it'd cost a ludicrous amount of credits to do it... it'd be nice to paint all that historical steel in the lower half of the tier spread in something other than "rusting away in the reserve fleet."

[Jakob Knight]

12 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

It doesn't spot anything now, though. But you're hopefully right, given the more detailed blogpost.

 

'Spot' in this case just means you detect something and get a position on it.  The current consumable does this, and the only real change is the addition of a 'ping' marker on detected ships behind terrain.  Neither the current consumable or the upgraded one will detect a Sub that is at Operational depth, just as Submarine Surveillance consumable won't detect a Sub that is at Surface depth, so each consumable has a blindspot.  Units in that blindspot can't be detected and thus will not be spotted by that particular consumable.

 

Tracking a target may be what you were thinking, and Radar, Hydroacoustic, and Submarine Surveillance consumables do that, while the Submarine Hydrophone doesn't.

 

 

Edited January 5 by Jakob Knight

[Jakob Knight]

5 minutes ago, Wrath_of_Deadguy said:

I wonder if the camo rework will finally allow players to assign permas to T1-5 ships. That'd be nice, even if it'd cost a ludicrous amount of credits to do it... it'd be nice to paint all that historical steel in the lower half of the tier spread in something other than "rusting away in the reserve fleet."

 

They do have permacamos for Premiums in those Tiers, so I don't see any technical reason why not.

 

 

[MBT808]

So, just found this out, but Musashi and Massachusetts ASW values have been reverted(or edited) to 5km range on the devblog.

[Helstrem]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:49 PM, Ensign Cthulhu said:

The people who are going to be most salty about this are the ones who rage-dumped all their one-shot camos after the change instead of hoarding them against possible future need, and who now have no camo profiles in their ports.

I sold almost all of mine.  Almost.  I kept one example of each camo (save two that I accidentally sold all of them) just in case there was a future change where having an example of a camo in inventory would matter.  If I had 146 examples of a camo, I sold 145 of them.

[oldblackdog]

45 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

I sold almost all of mine.  Almost.  I kept one example of each camo (save two that I accidentally sold all of them) just in case there was a future change where having an example of a camo in inventory would matter.  If I had 146 examples of a camo, I sold 145 of them.

 

I did the same thing. Most of my tech tree ships have a perma camo (some of them even have two or three). Now I'm curious to see how this all works out.

[Nevermore135]

2 hours ago, MBT808 said:

So, just found this out, but Musashi and Massachusetts ASW values have been reverted(or edited) to 5km range on the devblog.

So is this the result of sloppy editing/proofreading, internal miscommunication, accidental early reveal of already planned buffs (“see, we listened to your feedback!”), or some combination of the three?

Edited January 6 by Nevermore135

[MBT808]

2 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

So is this the result of sloppy editing/proofreading, internal miscommunication, accidental early reveal of already planned buffs (“see, we listened to your feedback!”), or some combination of the three?

Apparently, I just heard this, but the buff is actually happening. However till the Devblog reverts back to the previous values or the changes go live, I wouldn't trust WG word that the buff is actually happening. The ASW might stay the same and WG might be just doing damage control assuring us it will happen(then it won't).