What Does it Take to Win Consistently??

[BlueNautilus]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:26 AM, Pugilistic said:

I think the main way to weight the scales for WR is a 3-div of very strong players. Usually these folks are also strong solo, but I have seen exceptions, one lately was 53% solo but a Unicum in divisions; hes playing with some strong people. 

In my experience, aside from upping your own game, this is probably the single most impactful thing you can do to improve your win rate.  A huge chunk of this game is about team play, and finding reliable friends with whom you can div up is very important.  With the right composition, a division can also amplify the strengths of ships (e.g. going solo in radar Mino vs going in radar Mino in a div with Gearing etc.).

Join a clan with members who are: (a) equal to you or better than you in terms of skill/experience; (b) consistently active at the same time and on same days as you; (c) actually willing to div up; and (d) actively use TS/Discord etc. to communicate over voice.  

My own stats started to improve only because I found people who were willing to play with me and tolerate me. 

In terms of WG rigging the MM and what not, I'm not sure if that is really the case, but I think there's much wisdom/truth in the advice to stop playing random if you're suffering from a streak of bad losses.

Also, as others have said, I wouldn't focus overly on PR.  For example, if you're in DD, you could make a material impact on the outcome of a match by spotting, screening, capping, etc. without doing a single damage, and still win the match.  Yes, your PR and XP will suffer, but you still had an impact and I had lots of games like that playing DDs.

I personally think that as long as all of your stats are generally on an upward trajectory when viewed over long term, then notwithstanding the occasional dips, you are improving and I think that's what matters.

Edited December 31, 2023 by BlueNautilus

[Justin_Simpleton]

7 minutes ago, BlueNautilus said:

Join a clan with members who are: (a) equal to you or better than you in terms of skill/experience; (b) consistently active at the same time and on same days as you; (c) actually willing to div up; and (d) actively use TS/Discord etc. to communicate over voice.  

It seems that I would need to pay attention to the battle line-up to see which clans have divd together during the time I would like to play with others.  Then do some research about those clans to compare my experience levels with theirs.

I suppose I need to send a port msgs to someone in that clan to find out how to communicate via Discord.

[BlueNautilus]

3 minutes ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

I suppose I need to send a port msgs to someone in that clan to find out how to communicate via Discord.

If you haven't used Discord before, download the client from https://discord.com/ and join the World of Warships Community Discord Server.  Once you have done that, go to the 'Teamplay' section, look for the clans channel for your server, and check out the clans that are recruiting.

[Nautic_Hunt]

Some good reading in this thread.

 

Every 100 games, if you can turn a loss into a win just one time, that's an extra 1% to your win rate. The more times you can do it, the higher your win rate will go.

Losing streaks happen.

 

 

[Bumblegoose]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:14 AM, BOBTHEBALL said:

Those aren't unicums, they're just clubbers with little to no actual skill

Bear in mind that many who play the early tiers (1 to 4) routinely do so for reasons other than Win Rate.

-Some prefer the generally slower tempo of these early tiers.

-Some find the level of complexity appropriate for them, bearing in mind perhaps their age, personal preference and/or physical/mental condition.

-Some prefer the brawling character of early tier games, rather than the longer range conflict which predominates in later tiers.

-Some prefer to play in tiers without submarines.

-Some play a perticular ship simply because they like it and enjoy playing it. Is not enjoyment the aim of the game?

-Some play the early tiers because it is generally a friendlier and less salty/toxic environment in which to play.

Who is to say what ship or tiers or mode people should play? It is entirely personal subjective preference.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Bumblegoose said:

Bear in mind that many who play the early tiers (1 to 4) routinely do so for reasons other than Win Rate.

-Some prefer the generally slower tempo of these early tiers.

-Some find the level of complexity appropriate for them, bearing in mind perhaps their age, personal preference and/or physical/mental condition.

-Some prefer the brawling character of early tier games, rather than the longer range conflict which predominates in later tiers.

-Some prefer to play in tiers without submarines.

-Some play a perticular ship simply because they like it and enjoy playing it. Is not enjoyment the aim of the game?

-Some play the early tiers because it is generally a friendlier and less salty/toxic environment in which to play.

Who is to say what ship or tiers or mode people should play? It is entirely personal subjective preference.

While true. He's talking about actual unicums. Players that excel no matter the tier, due to their experience and understanding of the game.

He was responding to pugilistic's comment.

[Guest]

On topic.

It's simply "git gud" and then div with other "gud" players. Having a quarter of the team you can count on consistently is huge. Then utilizing lineups that work well together, especially having 1 player who can stay alive and spot. 

[Bumblegoose]

17 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

While true. He's talking about actual unicums. Players that excel no matter the tier, due to their experience and understanding of the game.

He was responding to pugilistic's comment.

You can define 'unicum' or 'actual unicum' according to your own subjective preference..

One aspect I did not like about the old WOWS forum was that it came from the perspective that later or 'higher' tier random players were some kind of superior species.

This kind of oneupmanship was constantly reinforced by terms such as 'merely a 'co-op player' or the frequent reference to the well-worn WOWS mythology of 'seal-clubbing.'

What we want on this new forum is an environment in which all players are equally respected regardless of the tier or mode that they play.

Notice that this statement 'Those aren't unicums, they're just clubbers with little to no actual skill' reeks of the kind of disrespect and oneupmanship that really has no place on this new forum.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Bumblegoose said:

You can define 'unicum' or 'actual unicum' according to your own subjective preference..

One aspect I did not like about the old WOWS forum was that it came from the perspective that later or 'higher' tier random players were some kind of superior species.

This kind of oneupmanship was constantly reinforced by terms such as 'merely a 'co-op player' or the frequent reference to the well-worn WOWS mythology of 'seal-clubbing.'

What we want on this new forum is an environment in which all players are equally respected regardless of the tier or mode that they play.

Notice that this statement 'Those aren't unicums, they're just clubbers with little to no actual skill' reeks of the kind of disrespect and oneupmanship that really has no place on this new forum.

 

If youve been around the old forums and played this game long enough, you should know what a unicum is.

A seal clubber could be a unicum, but its hard to determine since he/she is only playing a small part of the game. Ive met seal clubbers who do just fine in the higher tiers. But its hard to tell if there is no evidence of it.

And no, im not using these terms in any negative connotation. They are really just player types, as you yourself described in your post.

[Bumblegoose]

4 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

If youve been around the old forums and played this game long enough, you should know what a unicum is.

A seal clubber could be a unicum, but its hard to determine since he/she is only playing a small part of the game. Ive met seal clubbers who do just fine in the higher tiers. But its hard to tell if there is no evidence of it.

And no, im not using these terms in any negative connotation. They are really just player types, as you yourself described in your post.

Notice how deeply embedded the oneupmanship is in WOWS terminology. Instead of simply talking about the early tiers and later tiers, they are referred to as the 'lower' and 'higher' tiers. I fail to see anything lower or higher about them.

Let's suggest that things could be put graciously and in a manner devoid of oneupmanship:

'If a player has shown themselves to be competent/successful in the early tiers (by WR, PR or whatever parameters you choose), that is indeed meritorious. Even more meritorious is the extension of that competency into the middle and later tiers.'

But this is straying off-topic, so I'll end here.

[BOBTHEBALL]

2 hours ago, Bumblegoose said:

Bear in mind that many who play the early tiers (1 to 4) routinely do so for reasons other than Win Rate.

-Some prefer the generally slower tempo of these early tiers.

-Some find the level of complexity appropriate for them, bearing in mind perhaps their age, personal preference and/or physical/mental condition.

-Some prefer the brawling character of early tier games, rather than the longer range conflict which predominates in later tiers.

-Some prefer to play in tiers without submarines.

-Some play a perticular ship simply because they like it and enjoy playing it. Is not enjoyment the aim of the game?

-Some play the early tiers because it is generally a friendlier and less salty/toxic environment in which to play.

Who is to say what ship or tiers or mode people should play? It is entirely personal subjective preference.

There's nothing wrong with playing those tiers, there is something wrong with clubbing in those tiers and calling yourself a unicum because of it.

[Nautic_Hunt]

3 hours ago, Bumblegoose said:

Bear in mind that many who play the early tiers (1 to 4) routinely do so for reasons other than Win Rate.

-Some prefer the generally slower tempo of these early tiers.

 

For anyone that enjoys slow tempo, I'd strongly recommend Asia server in hig excuse me, later tiers. You can literally take a smoke break in 75% of tier 10 battles and not much has changed when you come back. At the 10 minute mark, there's often a meeting engagement which determines the outcome of the whole 20 minute battle.

I drop back to tier 5 on Asia every now and then just for the increased pace.

 

[ArIskandir]

2 hours ago, Bumblegoose said:

One aspect I did not like about the old WOWS forum was that it came from the perspective that later or 'higher' tier random players were some kind of superior species.

This kind of oneupmanship was constantly reinforced by terms such as 'merely a 'co-op player' or the frequent reference to the well-worn WOWS mythology of 'seal-clubbing.'

I also found the WG "party line" insidiously annoying. Understand all that "elitism" was nurtured and promoted for WG's own benefit... Higher tiers being the "real deal" of course has nothing to do with them being the monetized segment of the game... Or do they?

Why would you want to promote players to actually enjoy a free environment?... No, can't have that, gotta climb that ladder, gotta play the real tiers with the big boys... Or be branded a dirty sealclubber. 

[Bumblegoose]

24 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I also found the WG "party line" insidiously annoying. Understand all that "elitism" was nurtured and promoted for WG's own benefit... Higher tiers being the "real deal" of course has nothing to do with them being the monetized segment of the game... Or do they?

Why would you want to promote players to actually enjoy a free environment?... No, can't have that, gotta climb that ladder, gotta play the real tiers with the big boys... Or be branded a dirty sealclubber. 

Arlskandir has hit the nail exactly on the head.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

I also found the WG "party line" insidiously annoying. Understand all that "elitism" was nurtured and promoted for WG's own benefit... Higher tiers being the "real deal" of course has nothing to do with them being the monetized segment of the game... Or do they?

Why would you want to promote players to actually enjoy a free environment?... No, can't have that, gotta climb that ladder, gotta play the real tiers with the big boys... Or be branded a dirty sealclubber. 

It isnt much different than F2P mmorpgs or alot of F2P models.

In MMORPGs sealclubbers are called twinks. Players that kit out lower level PVP characters. Similar idea of kami/GC/21 point capt in this game.

But the F2P companies still focus on monetizing and promoting the higher levels in those games as well.

[pepe_trueno]

the only difference between low and high tiers is that ships lethality increase far more than ships defences. range, accuracy, number of torpedoes, DPM, fire chance, etc... all cranked to 11 while defences don't see much of an upgrade.

this firepower creep creates an environment that greatly favors snipers and campers turning the gameplay stale and boring.

6 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I also found the WG "party line" insidiously annoying. Understand all that "elitism" was nurtured and promoted for WG's own benefit... Higher tiers being the "real deal" of course has nothing to do with them being the monetized segment of the game... Or do they?

Why would you want to promote players to actually enjoy a free environment?... No, can't have that, gotta climb that ladder, gotta play the real tiers with the big boys... Or be branded a dirty sealclubber. 

pushing the player up the ladder has been a thing since ever. even before world of warships, world of tanks did the same with events mechanics that require high tiers tanks if you wanted to do it in a reasonable timeframe.

Edited January 2 by pepe_trueno

[Pugilistic]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:14 PM, BOBTHEBALL said:

Those aren't unicums, they're just clubbers with little to no actual skill

Well, I just ran across a weird thing. I only looked at four players after encountering a div of them, but it appears to be a entire clan of stat padders. One of these guys has a 59% solo WR on 10K games at average tier 4.5 and is 43% at Tier 8-10, and another is 55% solo on 21K games, and 44% in his 2K games at Tier 8-10. Dedicated to goals, I guess. 

[BOBTHEBALL]

2 hours ago, Pugilistic said:

Well, I just ran across a weird thing. I only looked at four players after encountering a div of them, but it appears to be a entire clan of stat padders. One of these guys has a 59% solo WR on 10K games at average tier 4.5 and is 43% at Tier 8-10, and another is 55% solo on 21K games, and 44% in his 2K games at Tier 8-10. Dedicated to goals, I guess. 

Yep those are the people I'm talking about. People who look like unicums but once you dive a bit deeper you realize, no not really. They're just getting bent over at higher tiers so they come down to lower tiers so they can be the ones bending people over.

[ArIskandir]

3 hours ago, Pugilistic said:

Well, I just ran across a weird thing. I only looked at four players after encountering a div of them, but it appears to be a entire clan of stat padders. One of these guys has a 59% solo WR on 10K games at average tier 4.5 and is 43% at Tier 8-10, and another is 55% solo on 21K games, and 44% in his 2K games at Tier 8-10. Dedicated to goals, I guess. 

 

1 hour ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Yep those are the people I'm talking about. People who look like unicums but once you dive a bit deeper you realize, no not really. They're just getting bent over at higher tiers so they come down to lower tiers so they can be the ones bending people over.

There's a thin but very important line to consider about such players...

Are they claiming to be "all-around" unicum and pretending to be other than they are?

Because if there's no such claim, they might just be players wise enough to understand their limitations and be just enjoying the game in the environment they prefer... which is perfectly fine imo. The stats might just be the byproduct of them playing what they enjoy to play without any further intention to maskerade as something they are not. The whole narrative might be just ourselves reading into their stats a "fake unicum" statement that was never the intention of the player in question. 

Honestly, I feel the "unicum state" is full of hogwash... what does it means to be unicum and how is it relevant?

Are you a unicum player in a specific ship type but you suck at other ship types?  How is it all that different from a guy being unicum in certain tiers and sucking balls in others? 

And Lo and Behold you have unicum stats at T10, the tier where you are never (well, were never until T11) handicapped by being 2 tiers of power below your opponents at least 30-40% of the time... and somehow that's more respectable than guys that will be undertiered by -2 tiers at least 1/3 of their matches. 

Having said that, yes higher tiers can be more complex, more lethal, more unforgiving with more variables to account for but not necessarily more difficult. If you ask me, T10 is the easiest and cheesiest tier to play just by the simplest reason of you always having the strongest tools and never being handicapped. 

 

[BOBTHEBALL]

2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

 

There's a thin but very important line to consider about such players...

Are they claiming to be "all-around" unicum and pretending to be other than they are?

Because if there's no such claim, they might just be players wise enough to understand their limitations and be just enjoying the game in the environment they prefer... which is perfectly fine imo. The stats might just be the byproduct of them playing what they enjoy to play without any further intention to maskerade as something they are not. The whole narrative might be just ourselves reading into their stats a "fake unicum" statement that was never the intention of the player in question. 

Honestly, I feel the "unicum state" is full of hogwash... what does it means to be unicum and how is it relevant?

Are you a unicum player in a specific ship type but you suck at other ship types?  How is it all that different from a guy being unicum in certain tiers and sucking balls in others? 

And Lo and Behold you have unicum stats at T10, the tier where you are never (well, were never until T11) handicapped by being 2 tiers of power below your opponents at least 30-40% of the time... and somehow that's more respectable than guys that will be undertiered by -2 tiers at least 1/3 of their matches. 

Having said that, yes higher tiers can be more complex, more lethal, more unforgiving with more variables to account for but not necessarily more difficult. If you ask me, T10 is the easiest and cheesiest tier to play just by the simplest reason of you always having the strongest tools and never being handicapped. 

 

Higher tiers are most definitely more complex and unforgiving. You have so many ships with such high accuracy, damage output and dev strike potential. All ship types pack a massive punch when you think about it. It only makes sense that higher tier is the riskier and harder to play environment. 

[MnemonScarlet]

2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

And Lo and Behold you have unicum stats at T10, the tier where you are never (well, were never until T11) handicapped by being 2 tiers of power below your opponents at least 30-40% of the time... and somehow that's more respectable than guys that will be undertiered by -2 tiers at least 1/3 of their matches. 

Having said that, yes higher tiers can be more complex, more lethal, more unforgiving with more variables to account for but not necessarily more difficult. If you ask me, T10 is the easiest and cheesiest tier to play just by the simplest reason of you always having the strongest tools and never being handicapped. 

Remember also that at toptier, the buck stops at you. No one is in a higher tier ship to make up for your lack of impact or mistakes if you make them, you have a massive amount of influence tied to your hull so you have to play more thoughtfully. Add to that the aformentioned complexity and that's why being unicum at toptier is seen as so telling compared to lower tier.

Sandbagging is really really strong, if you're capable as a player already. The power of playing well enough to drop toptier ships in a weaker vessel while having someone above you in the match structure to just sit back and leisurely use their superior firepower after you remove their equal-tier opponents is pretty high. And if you need to treat that person as disposable HP, hey they have more of it and are usually better armored than you as well. And since they have that toptier firepower, taking them out will be more expensive for the enemy then if they were the bottomtier. This paradigm only falls apart when your toptiers are bot-level/plain bad, so they just become expensive meals for the enemy team.

Edited January 2 by MnemonScarlet

[Nautic_Hunt]

1 hour ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Higher tiers are most definitely more complex and unforgiving. You have so many ships with such high accuracy, damage output and dev strike potential. All ship types pack a massive punch when you think about it. It only makes sense that higher tier is the riskier and harder to play environment. 

this - I consider myself to be moderately competent and if I can keep my 10s at 50% or better solo, I'm more than happy.

The issue I have in 10s is that, because it's unforgiving, caution vs risk is a trade off, often I choose the wrong one.

 

Edited January 2 by Nautic_Hunt

[Pugilistic]

8 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

 

There's a thin but very important line to consider about such players...

Are they claiming to be "all-around" unicum and pretending to be other than they are?

Because if there's no such claim, they might just be players wise enough to understand their limitations and be just enjoying the game in the environment they prefer... which is perfectly fine imo. The stats might just be the byproduct of them playing what they enjoy to play without any further intention to maskerade as something they are not. The whole narrative might be just ourselves reading into their stats a "fake unicum" statement that was never the intention of the player in question. 

Honestly, I feel the "unicum state" is full of hogwash... what does it means to be unicum and how is it relevant?

Are you a unicum player in a specific ship type but you suck at other ship types?  How is it all that different from a guy being unicum in certain tiers and sucking balls in others? 

And Lo and Behold you have unicum stats at T10, the tier where you are never (well, were never until T11) handicapped by being 2 tiers of power below your opponents at least 30-40% of the time... and somehow that's more respectable than guys that will be undertiered by -2 tiers at least 1/3 of their matches. 

Having said that, yes higher tiers can be more complex, more lethal, more unforgiving with more variables to account for but not necessarily more difficult. If you ask me, T10 is the easiest and cheesiest tier to play just by the simplest reason of you always having the strongest tools and never being handicapped. 

 

The one with 11K ish battles (10K solo), make of it what you will:

 

 

 

Edited January 3 by Pugilistic

[Merc85]

On 12/26/2023 at 3:44 PM, Kalishnikat said:

Outstanding contributions to losing teams are not recognized in any way by WG. You end up with less credits, XP etc than some schlub on the "winning" team. 

Actually winning or losing has no impact on the credits you earn....see the info below on credits.   Winning gives a 50% bonus to base XP but has no impact on anything else.


 

[Merc85]

@ Kalishnikat   I forgot to include the most important part of credit earnings in the original post, so here is the full view of how you earn credits, not any of which includes winning. 

 

Edited January 5 by Merc85