Sub captains are getting better and better.

[Dareios]

3 hours ago, AdmiralMcintosh said:

What we need is a submarine rework, which I think it should be that all submarines have their homing torpedoes removed and the torpedo damage reduced by 50%, this would reduce the shotgunning that's been happening. Then as for the asw make it have a standard range of 12km for all ships and increase damage by 40% cause it's too weak in it's current state. I think this would make submarines a little more balanced.

why not just type what you think... remove submarines from the game.

when you type multiple ways to nerf subs and multiple ways to buff every other ship against them you are not even trying to balance.

[Dareios]

1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

Actually IMHO the only thing that needs to change to make shotgunning much less of an issue is to make the f sub behave like any other ship shen hydro is used so within the ship detection range she is visible no matter the depth ie that makes any high tier cruiser and many DDs and BBs able to see them 5+ km out and spam them to death or force them to veer off the fact they made them undetectable is creating half of the problems...

 

you cant shotgun from 60m, you need to be periscope depth, and thus ARE detectable at regular hydro range and CAN be shot by surface gunfire.

sitting at the bottom of the floor 5km away and pinging and relying on homing torps to track is not a shotgun and comes with dubious life expectancy for the sub who does this.

[Verblonde]

15 minutes ago, Dareios said:

remove submarines from the game.

Now *this* is a good idea. At least, remove them until they can be reworked properly, and in a way that doesn't ruin the game for the other classes.

To be clear, I want submarines in the game, but - as I've said endlessly before in old fora - in a form that improves the game for all, not in the current form that makes it worse for everyone except the submarines.

Quite apart from anything else, I want one of these:

[AdmiralMcintosh]

1 hour ago, Dareios said:

why not just type what you think... remove submarines from the game.

I was trying to be a bit more realistic, because I know WG wont remove them from the game cause they wont admit it was a mistake adding them.

[AdmiralMcintosh]

Even with my suggestions submarines will still be powerful, so don't worry too much about them being nerfed to oblivion.

[Kynami]

1 hour ago, Dareios said:

you cant shotgun from 60m, you need to be periscope depth, and thus ARE detectable at regular hydro range and CAN be shot by surface gunfire.

sitting at the bottom of the floor 5km away and pinging and relying on homing torps to track is not a shotgun and comes with dubious life expectancy for the sub who does this.

Except they won't surface to shotgun until the hydro is down because Watchful tells them *precisely* if they are potentially at risk if they change their depth. The fact this skill also tells them if they'd surface into an active radar is pretty ludicrous.

[Dareios]

3 minutes ago, Kynami said:

Except they won't surface to shotgun until the hydro is down because Watchful tells them *precisely* if they are potentially at risk if they change their depth. The fact this skill also tells them if they'd surface into an active radar is pretty ludicrous.

yeah. I wouldnt sortie without watchful. or radio location in a DD. or anything without concealment. some skills are more useful than others.

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

9 minutes ago, Dareios said:

yeah. I wouldnt sortie without watchful. or radio location in a DD. or anything without concealment. some skills are more useful than others.

 

I have to, because not all of my Commanders have enough skill points to afford the "bells & whistles".
Watchful is useful, yes.  But it tells a player something they can discern or guess if they know about their opponent's capabilities.
Radio Direction Finding is useful, and well understood by a number of players.  The smart ones can use teamwork to triangulate the RDF-using ship by communicating which of their own team is located early and often.
Submarine's cannot access concealment impovement Captain's skills or hull modules.  Just sayin'.

The more time that people spend studying the Submarine warfare and anti-submarine warfare topics of ArIskandir and Ahskance on the old forums and their respective youtube pages, the more comfortable people were with submarines in the game, in my opinion.

[Dareios]

12 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I have to, because not all of my Commanders have enough skill points to afford the "bells & whistles".
Watchful is useful, yes.  But it tells a player something they can discern or guess if they know about their opponent's capabilities.
Radio Direction Finding is useful, and well understood by a number of players.  The smart ones can use teamwork to triangulate the RDF-using ship by communicating which of their own team is located early and often.
Submarine's cannot access concealment impovement Captain's skills or hull modules.  Just sayin'.

The more time that people spend studying the Submarine warfare and anti-submarine warfare topics of ArIskandir and Ahskance on the old forums and their respective youtube pages, the more comfortable people were with submarines in the game, in my opinion.

you can also triangulate reasonably well just by knowing that you are spotted and working on LoS. Helps to predict screening torps though.

yes, subs only have their native concealment. I suppose to clarify, Any DD, CA, CL or BB I run. I wouldnt bother with conceal on CVs either (maybe Audy).

like any mechanic in this game, or any really, learn how it works, play with it and against it, understand your enemy and how they operate. something something sun tzu. If your gut reaction is 'I hate it so very very very much I would never stoop to learn how just remove it now' then you will continue to have a bad time indefinitely.

[Wolfswetpaws]

11 minutes ago, Dareios said:

you can also triangulate reasonably well just by knowing that you are spotted and working on LoS. Helps to predict screening torps though.

yes, subs only have their native concealment. I suppose to clarify, Any DD, CA, CL or BB I run. I wouldnt bother with conceal on CVs either (maybe Audy).

like any mechanic in this game, or any really, learn how it works, play with it and against it, understand your enemy and how they operate. something something sun tzu. If your gut reaction is 'I hate it so very very very much I would never stoop to learn how just remove it now' then you will continue to have a bad time indefinitely.

Yep.  🙂

Excuse me while I go play my Submarines.  🙂 

[Dareios]

18 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Yep.  🙂

Excuse me while I go play my Submarines.  🙂 

I subbed yesterday.

today is cruiser day 🙂

[clammboy]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

The more time that people spend studying the Submarine warfare and anti-submarine warfare topics of ArIskandir and Ahskance on the old forums and their respective youtube pages, the more comfortable people were with submarines in the game, in my opinion.

Lol Wolf that's all I want to do is study anti-submarine warfare tatics after work. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, clammboy said:

Lol Wolf that's all I want to do is study anti-submarine warfare tatics after work. 

I interpret your words to include a healthy does of sarcasm.  :-)

[clammboy]

40 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I interpret your words to include a healthy does of sarcasm.  :-)

Yea sorry I’m not good with all of that stuff. Grasshopper is very smart I can’t even understand half the stuff he writes . I’m the kind of guy who doesn’t even read the instructions I open things up and jump right in lol. 

[Yedwy]

7 hours ago, Dareios said:

you cant shotgun from 60m, you need to be periscope depth, and thus ARE detectable at regular hydro range and CAN be shot by surface gunfire.

sitting at the bottom of the floor 5km away and pinging and relying on homing torps to track is not a shotgun and comes with dubious life expectancy for the sub who does this.

Yeees but you can approach to the targetthrough the "picket" undetected and surface at your leisure without the time for the poor sod to react, ergo the shotgun...

[Dareios]

3 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Yeees but you can approach to the targetthrough the "picket" undetected and surface at your leisure without the time for the poor sod to react, ergo the shotgun...

fair.

a good and knowledgeable player can more often find ways to do their thing despite impeding hazards.

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 hours ago, clammboy said:

Yea sorry I’m not good with all of that stuff. Grasshopper is very smart I can’t even understand half the stuff he writes . I’m the kind of guy who doesn’t even read the instructions I open things up and jump right in lol. 

LOL - Thank you for a dose of laughter.